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Post by bobgoodman on Nov 16, 2009 12:13:08 GMT -6
I have to agree with jhanawa here - teaching those things is no more difficult than teaching a trap scheme, or the QB footwork & ball handling in DW, or timing up a Jet/Fly sweep scheme, or the spinner series in SW, etc, etc - IF the coaches know what they're doing (just like anything else). I disagree. Some of those things are harder to teach than others to a degree that's equally effective. The trouble with pass protection is that the weakest link determines the strength of the chain. With run blocking, you can get away with some pretty poor execution away from the POA much of the time, and if you have a bad particular matchup in a particular game it's not going to kill your whole running game. Pass blocking, anyone's breakdown can be deadly. With run blocking, there's only a few things your target might do, and most of them will take him out of the play anyway. Pass blocking, your opponent might have any of several moves -- not that he's likely to have been coached in several, only that you'll meet different opponents and some of them will have different moves that they might not even have been coached in -- and many of them won't take him out of the play but lead him right to your passer. Your line sets, and then you see your better blocker is wasted against their bear crawler, and you can't move them around. Coaching up players in a spin series, etc. is simplified by the fact that you've selected just a few players to do it. |
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Post by coachdoug on Nov 16, 2009 13:15:08 GMT -6
I have to agree with jhanawa here - teaching those things is no more difficult than teaching a trap scheme, or the QB footwork & ball handling in DW, or timing up a Jet/Fly sweep scheme, or the spinner series in SW, etc, etc - IF the coaches know what they're doing (just like anything else). I disagree. Some of those things are harder to teach than others to a degree that's equally effective. The trouble with pass protection is that the weakest link determines the strength of the chain. With run blocking, you can get away with some pretty poor execution away from the POA much of the time, and if you have a bad particular matchup in a particular game it's not going to kill your whole running game. Pass blocking, anyone's breakdown can be deadly. With run blocking, there's only a few things your target might do, and most of them will take him out of the play anyway. Pass blocking, your opponent might have any of several moves -- not that he's likely to have been coached in several, only that you'll meet different opponents and some of them will have different moves that they might not even have been coached in -- and many of them won't take him out of the play but lead him right to your passer. Your line sets, and then you see your better blocker is wasted against their bear crawler, and you can't move them around. Coaching up players in a spin series, etc. is simplified by the fact that you've selected just a few players to do it. Well, this goes directly to the point of the coaches knowing what they are doing. If you're in shotgun, throwing short game stuff (i.e. 3 step), you should be able to get the ball off even if one defender is completely unblocked - we do this on a regular basis. Now, if you're talking about 5-step drop, pocket passing from under center, then your comments are right on, but we never do that and I doubt any of the spread proponents here do either. Also, as I pointed out earlier, it's rare the o-line that gets beat in pass pro anyway, it's the RB and QB who usually screw up - so that's only 2 players that you really need to focus on. Yeah, I get your point about pass pro only being as strong as the weakest link, but realistically most teams put weaker players at DL, and you'll know from scouting if a team has a real beast up front and you can game plan for it (double team him, get a back to chip, etc.). Probably close to 90% of all sacks come from DEs and blitzing LBs, who are usually the responsibility of either a RB or QB. |
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Post by mahonz on Nov 16, 2009 13:35:49 GMT -6
I have to agree with jhanawa here - teaching those things is no more difficult than teaching a trap scheme, or the QB footwork & ball handling in DW, or timing up a Jet/Fly sweep scheme, or the spinner series in SW, etc, etc - IF the coaches know what they're doing (just like anything else). I disagree. Some of those things are harder to teach than others to a degree that's equally effective. The trouble with pass protection is that the weakest link determines the strength of the chain. With run blocking, you can get away with some pretty poor execution away from the POA much of the time, and if you have a bad particular matchup in a particular game it's not going to kill your whole running game. Pass blocking, anyone's breakdown can be deadly. With run blocking, there's only a few things your target might do, and most of them will take him out of the play anyway. Pass blocking, your opponent might have any of several moves -- not that he's likely to have been coached in several, only that you'll meet different opponents and some of them will have different moves that they might not even have been coached in -- and many of them won't take him out of the play but lead him right to your passer. Your line sets, and then you see your better blocker is wasted against their bear crawler, and you can't move them around. Coaching up players in a spin series, etc. is simplified by the fact that you've selected just a few players to do it. Bob Speaking strictly about the youth level….I believe pass blocking is the easier teach because you don’t have to drive anyone…just influence them…and its not going to kill you when they stand up to execute their block like so many like to do. Like one poster insinuated…pass blocking is like getting slowly run over. Now if your QB is squeezing the football…that will be his death. Most problems with pass blocking that I have experienced are the QBs fault. When faced with really good pass rushers…slide or max protect. Then you can typically get a good double team on the problem defender. Also I can honestly say…when in super spread mode I have never seen a bear crawler. The real match ups are typically the OTs vs the DEs and keeping the walk up or delayed defender out. I had a very average OL this season. Our 5 wide stuff was really good because the OL could manage that scheme. They could get a hand on their defender regardless for 2 seconds. Yet our run blocking…yuck. Coach Mike |
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Post by jhanawa on Nov 16, 2009 22:16:04 GMT -6
One assumption that everybody makes about the spread is that he QB is going to drop back, make fancy reads and throw the ball. One step (gun) quick game reading one defender, screen game (multiple screens), play action and sprinting out are all EASY ways to negate protection issues and throw the ball effectively, at ANY level. Again, it will come down to coaching and kids executing.
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Post by morris on Nov 17, 2009 7:30:10 GMT -6
Y sail can be run from HS all the way down. You migh thave to adjust depth of the routes but with a kid that can run a little or throw a little is very tough to stop. You sprintout to it. If the Qb is a true run threat then it becomes even more a PITA.
Smash is also good at that level as a sprintout. Now you will almost never hit the corner route but the hitch is once again an easy throw.
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Post by slydaddy on Nov 17, 2009 14:00:58 GMT -6
Used a lot of 4 and 5 wide shotgun this year and the blocking was a lot easier for the line. Since the defense had to cover up all receivers or get killed with a quick uncovered pass, then the d-line usually just had to block a four man front. And if anybody tried to bring a linebacker, he was easily picked up either by the back or by the qb with a hot throw. Also, my qb could run, so at any time he felt pressure, he always had lanes to run. Also, the defensive lines I played against didn't play many games and the de's would always rush outside, so my tackles just had to widen them out. I loved running this stuff, and not just for the passing, so I think spread for this age group is great. Of course, it is like anything else, it has to be taught properly with firm detail to fundamentals.
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Post by coachmsl on Nov 17, 2009 15:28:44 GMT -6
I liked dropping back to shotgun. Is 3 wide considered Spread? If so, then this applies. If not disregard.
I liked running dive to the fb running strong. Then faking to him and going GT counter weak. NUMBERS! Mix in some jet and some short passes and it was real effective.
We wouldn't run it more than 30% of the game though.
Like i said, this may not qualify as "spread".
msl
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Post by floridagator on Nov 23, 2009 9:29:13 GMT -6
As a youth DC we have loved facing spread teams. This last year we went undefeated against spread teams. We run a 4-4 (4-2-5). We brought the safety up to 8yds on the TE side(when there was one) and ran a Cover 3 zone. The two OLBs/DB's closed down the short pass/screens and we brought pressure and were willing to gamble that a 11-13 yr old Qb couldn't make his drop avoid the pressure and properly step into his throw as the receiver ran the right deeper route and beat the coverage and made the catch. I was willing to make that gamble alot and it paid off. We had over 20 INTs, alot of them came from the short routes into our OLBs zone. Some from the TE dump. Once we shut down the short passing game and the long passing game became a huge gamble for them, they ran and when they did we had the 4dwn lineman and the 4LBs to shut that down.
Now if you have a great player he can make any O work. Talent at this level can make anyone look good. Coaching really takes place when you have to work with less talented kids and make them come together to move the ball. I think the power running game is really good at this level. The most exciting ? maybe not but you will see some long runs from the power game on sweeps and some off tackle stuff.
If and when you become the OC/HC you may want to think about running plays out of two different formations. One spread and one tight. You dont want the kids to have to think too much but as a DC for youth and a coach for Varsity having to prepare for more things can be challenging. Our O ran the I at the MS level last year but as the season wore on we added a wing off of the TE and had 2-3 big plays off of that.
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Post by floridagator on Nov 23, 2009 9:36:18 GMT -6
Oh and spreading 5wide with a great runner taking the snaps can kill you. If you have that guy on your team, you need to find a way to spread em and run him. That is VERY hard to defend.
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Post by floridagator on Nov 23, 2009 9:47:44 GMT -6
another situation in spread is that when you have 4 dwn and 2 LBs in the middle is the gap that can open up really big between your Tkls and DE's the LBs are in pass drops and have to be very mindful of the Qb taking off in the B/Cgap. If the DE gets too far outside rushing upfield that gap becomes a lane you can drive a bus thru. I really have to stress that to my LBers inside as well as my DE's. Do any of yall run the 4-4 and if so what do you do with that. How do you mix it up ? I will blitz it on occasion on the weak side and have Sam watch the TE dump/WR TE crossing thru there. I dont get too extravagant at this level. Do yall do a lot of different things vs keeping it simple ??
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Post by coachdoug on Nov 23, 2009 10:14:19 GMT -6
As a youth DC we have loved facing spread teams. This last year we went undefeated against spread teams. We run a 4-4 (4-2-5). We brought the safety up to 8yds on the TE side(when there was one) and ran a Cover 3 zone. The two OLBs/DB's closed down the short pass/screens and we brought pressure and were willing to gamble that a 11-13 yr old Qb couldn't make his drop avoid the pressure and properly step into his throw as the receiver ran the right deeper route and beat the coverage and made the catch. I was willing to make that gamble alot and it paid off. We had over 20 INTs, alot of them came from the short routes into our OLBs zone. Some from the TE dump. Once we shut down the short passing game and the long passing game became a huge gamble for them, they ran and when they did we had the 4dwn lineman and the 4LBs to shut that down. Now if you have a great player he can make any O work. Talent at this level can make anyone look good. Coaching really takes place when you have to work with less talented kids and make them come together to move the ball. I think the power running game is really good at this level. The most exciting ? maybe not but you will see some long runs from the power game on sweeps and some off tackle stuff. If and when you become the OC/HC you may want to think about running plays out of two different formations. One spread and one tight. You dont want the kids to have to think too much but as a DC for youth and a coach for Varsity having to prepare for more things can be challenging. Our O ran the I at the MS level last year but as the season wore on we added a wing off of the TE and had 2-3 big plays off of that. Well, like you said, coach - talent at this level can make anyone look good. I'm not sure how you can stop a decent running game with only six guys in the box unless you just have way better athletes. It seems to me that in most cases, your safety is going to have to make a lot of tackles, which should make you pretty vulnerable to play-action passes. If I'm in a 2x2 spread and you send your OLB/Inverts out to cover the #2 on each side, they can't really help much with the running game. If you're in a Cover-3 (i.e. your CBs are playing 6-7 yards off the LOS), I don't see how you can stop WR screens (smoke & bubble) because I'll be able to block your OLB/Invert (especially if I motion to trips). You say you like to gamble and bring pressure - from where? The LBs? Okay, we'd have 6-man protection against 6-man pressure - sounds like our QB should be able to get the ball off unless someone completely misses an assignment (even then the QB should be able to get the ball off on any short game stuff - which should be about 80-90% of the passing game), or if the defense is just vastly superior athletically. Any decently coached spread team will work a scramble drill on a regular basis and the QB is going to know where his RB will be after he tries to block - I've yet to see a youth team that can pick up that RB in an all-out LB blitz. If you bring pressure from anywhere else, any decently coached QB should be able to make you pay (maybe not every time, but often enough). Look, I'm not trying to play the "last man holding the chalk" game - my point is just that spread is like most other schemes - if it's well coached, it's tough to stop, and if it's poorly coached, it's easy to stop. I know you did well against spread teams this past year, but that doesn't make it a poor scheme. My teams have pretty much stuffed the SW every time we've ever faced it, but that's only because those teams weren't very well coached - if I ever had to face Dave Cisar, I'm sure I'd get my a$$ handed to me - not because the SW scheme is so great, but because Dave's teams are so well coached and so well drilled that they'd be tough to stop running just about anything. At the other end of the offensive spectrum, take a look at jhanawa's offense (he's posted numerous clips of his team in action here) - they are a very well coached spread team. I would hate to face them - I would have no idea how to even begin trying to defend all the things they do. |
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Post by floridagator on Nov 23, 2009 12:39:41 GMT -6
Hey CoachDoug,
Dont worry, I take no offence to anything on here I am constantly learning. I am a very young coach and look fwd to learning everyday. That being said, we didnt seem to have any problem stopping the run. we had numbers on our side and the worst we did was match them. In 2x2 we had 6on6 if the back left the ILB picked him up and left 5 on 5. We never really ran into teams that could pass pro really good at this level(11-13). The screens were either picked or few caught before a defender got to them and just hammered them.Our OLB stayed in the flat zone area so if it wasnt a pass first then they were still there for run. In empty we really had them where we wanted them.Every gap was accounted for, our DEs were bringing good pressure our DTs were pushing upfield and the backers we usually dropped one and blitzed my other. That forced the OL to make a decision on the DE or LB the other one would slide free.
Now maybe we did have a couple of really good players but some of the other teams had a lot more athletic people than us. We did have one STUD.(OLB) I was very surprised we never faced 4 verts all year, that could have caused problems with the C3 but we never saw it so i wasnt complaining. On a quad side we called this overload and just rolled the other OLB over and played man backside.
Like you were saying, on a chaclkboard I guess whoever has it last would win but on the field we just didnt have a whole lot of problems. The only school that beat us was a I team the first game we played them (they beat us)and then a spread option the next time(we won). They could have caused major problems with their QB running ( he had a 50+yd TD early) but they didnt run him too much and we kept him bottled up inside. If they would have rolled him out to pass/run we could have been in some trouble.
If I was the OC or HC I would have run some spread because I think we had the personnel to run it. We didnt and we still put points up. I do think we would have put up more by giving it more to our guys in space though.
Please dont think I dont like the spread and its various formations. My gators run it and run it well. I like it, I like to mix things up a little though too. To each their own and Ive always been told to run what you know best and perfect it. I hope I made some kind of sense here online I know things can come out differently. Please let me know what I can do to be more sound, I will probably come back with more questions, thats just my nature. I love to learn about this wonderful game.
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Post by coachks on Nov 24, 2009 12:41:19 GMT -6
Just a few things about our philosophy against the spread.....
1) You aren't going to throw uncovered every play. You're receiver is going to get crushed when our corner, safety and linebacker all converge on him, and he probably isn't going to catch the 2nd or 3rd one. It isn't an "easy" throw and catch. If the receiver stands at the line, he has no momentum on the catch, limiting his ability to get yards. If he jogs off the line, now you have to throw it over lineman. You're also going to end up giving us 6 points on the play. By either scaring the receiver, making the QB throw it over a lineman, rushing the QB (again, fear) or the reality of the execution level (and yes, this even applies at the varsity level) you're going to throw one too high, or it's going to get tipped/bobbled and we're taking it for 6. Uncovered is a hollow threat.
Secondly, the idea that we can't get to your QB on a 3 step drop. Besides the idea that we can just play man, all we need to do is collision the receiver to beat the timing. It gives the QB no true read (he's neither running with the flat, nor sitting) and slow your play. Let alone if we have two coverages (say cover 2 and cover 3 or cover 4 and cover 3), is you're 11/12 year old going to identify us each time? What if we start zone blitzing?
And lastly, what if we just start getting into a track stance with our fastest kid and beating your tackles off the edges? Since I'm not going to honor uncovered, I have #'s in the box. Just take two fast kids, put them at end and test your pass pro footwork.
------------------------------------
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but these are serious issues. I don't' believe the spread can work at the youth level (in fact, it struggles at the freshman and JV levels) because of the incredible amount of mental reps kids need (as well as a lack of motor skills. Do you have receivers who can adjust to poorly thrown balls, make one handed catches, make sliding catches like your typical spread team requires. I really don't think many 13 year olds have developed those skills. Let alone tough catches like on the bubble, where they need to run to the sideline, but twist their body to the QB. Plus, you need to teach stalk blocking (which is very tough) to a kid who probably isn't a great athlete (or, he'd get the ball).
And the QB. You need to teach mechanics (they have none), plus you need to teach them to identify coverages. You also need to teach receivers to identify coverages. As a varsity program we spend over 10 hours in the summer doing this before we even touch the run game (and, we two platoon so that is just offensive time). Do you have that kind of time?
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Post by bobgoodman on Nov 24, 2009 18:13:39 GMT -6
Is stalk blocking really harder than playing man defense? Just keep the opponent in front of you, and you don't even have to backpedal.
I think I have one form of uncovered pass that's pretty foolproof, and that's to a flanker in fly motion toward the ball. He catches it in stride, and although that's not forward motion, it's better than flat footed. If a defender wants to play close, he's got the choice of giving up the inside, which is foolish, or turning and trying to stay with the receiver, which means losing sight of him, and he may have stopped and gone downfield after the snap.
The only drawback is that you don't have much time in which to make the throw at different spots, because the motion player is covering the ground pretty fast, and he's not going to start out wider than the passer can throw.
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Post by floridagator on Nov 24, 2009 18:45:54 GMT -6
we were consistently able to stop the short passing game and encouraged teams to hurry up and throw deep. We played a team that had a pretty good QB but he is still a youth QB and we made him have to beat us, that rarely happened.Sometimes the throw was good but our Corner was there and usually the FS also. The long ball is a very low percentage pass in my opinion at this level. Now I am a very young coach and havent seen it all by any means but I watch alot of film especially at the varsity level and it is the same for Varsity.(talking about the long ball)
I believe the WRs we have played against were not coached all that well though because they were never aggressive in their blocking.
I do believe spread formations work at the youth level its just my opinion that running needs to be a part of it. As in ANY offense if you are one dimensional you better be the best because if that part gets shut down you are in serious trouble. If you have one very good reciever he can make a decent QB look like the best thing ever. I could throw the ball to Randy Moss.
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Post by coachks on Nov 24, 2009 23:03:12 GMT -6
Is stalk blocking really harder than playing man defense? Just keep the opponent in front of you, and you don't even have to backpedal. It doesn't have to be harder. Man coverage is an option, stalk blocking is a neccesity (let alone the whole QB has to complete the pass thing...) It requires balance, foot quickness and aggression. Not the most prominent traits for kids at that age. Also...you don't have to backpedal playing man coverage either... How is that throwing uncovered? ...................................S................. ..C..........................L..........L......................C ........................L...........................L ............................V....V.......V....V..................... X.........................T....G...C...G...T....................Y ........Z...................................................H .................................H..Q Z and H are "uncovered" If you were to put one of them into motion, wouldn't you be, in essence, running them into "covered." |
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Post by jhanawa on Nov 25, 2009 9:18:27 GMT -6
I don't' believe the spread can work at the youth level (in fact, it struggles at the freshman and JV levels) because of the incredible amount of mental reps kids need (as well as a lack of motor skills. Do you have receivers who can adjust to poorly thrown balls, make one handed catches, make sliding catches like your typical spread team requires. I really don't think many 13 year olds have developed those skills.
I'll politely disagree with you on this......
Yes the spread, like any offense, takes time and coaching. It does take more time to teach than a typical youth offense where they turn around and toss it to the fast guy 35 times a game but I feel the end reward justifies the time invested in teaching it.
We've run the spread at the NON SELECT youth level (7-8th grade) for several years without having the problems that you mention. We've also run it with Freshmen teams, as well as JV and Varsity also...I'd say we've been pretty sucessful durning this period of time.
These are clips from our team two years ago 11-2 (lost in AZ state championship to national runnerup and to CA champion in the Jr. Rose Bowl on the last play of the game). We had two QB's, one was a backup for the jr. midget team the year before and the other never played QB before.
This years 7-2 frosh team (QB #8 never played football before as well as 4 of the 5 offensive linemen.)
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Post by davecisar on Nov 25, 2009 10:43:18 GMT -6
Nice clips coach, well done. I know your teams consistently do well, well done.
What are your MMP requirements on those teams and how many kids did you have on your team?
BTW Im a big fan of spread to run, we are in Spread SW (jet) for about 35% of our snaps at that grade level.
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Post by casec11 on Nov 25, 2009 13:58:54 GMT -6
1) You aren't going to throw uncovered every play. You're receiver is going to get crushed when our corner, safety and linebacker all converge on him, and he probably isn't going to catch the 2nd or 3rd one. It isn't an "easy" throw and catch. If the receiver stands at the line, he has no momentum on the catch, limiting his ability to get yards. If he jogs off the line, now you have to throw it over lineman. You're also going to end up giving us 6 points on the play. By either scaring the receiver, making the QB throw it over a lineman, rushing the QB (again, fear) or the reality of the execution level (and yes, this even applies at the varsity level) you're going to throw one too high, or it's going to get tipped/bobbled and we're taking it for 6. Uncovered is a hollow threat.
Coach,
Above is a last with the chalk type thing. For example if your Safety, corner and outside linebacker are converging on the uncovered receiver, that might make you susceptible to a draw, or a fake quick to the wide receiver and a throw to the slot who is faking the stalk then running deep.
The quick hitch to the WR we call "smoke" (stole from coachdoug) is not an all the time thing and is usually called when the opposing team is not aggressive toward the receiver.
The question is can you be successful running a spread system at the 11-12 yr old age group.
The answer is yes, if you can teach the kids correctly. Many on this site and others have done it successfully, for championships, winning records ect.... Many also have not and failed trying.
Many have coached I, power I, SW, DW, Wing-t, grab-bag, ect... Successfully for championships and winning records ect... Many also have not and failed trying.
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Post by jhanawa on Nov 25, 2009 16:55:04 GMT -6
Dave,
MMP requirements varied by team size, we had 23-24 kids on our team that year and that the min. plays requirement I believe was 7 plays (I didn't coach youth this year so I'm going of of memory here) per half excluding special teams/extra points. I do know that in reality our 2's ended up with more reps than the 1's.
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Post by davecisar on Nov 25, 2009 16:59:08 GMT -6
Coach
I was under the impression that most of your spread clips game from Jr High School team with no MMP requirements. I guess Im getting forgetful in my old age, both of us LOL
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Post by jhanawa on Nov 25, 2009 17:28:57 GMT -6
LOL, tell me about it.....although, I must say with coaching only one team this year, my hair isn't turning gray as fast....go figure...LOL
As far as MMP's, we've always been in leagues that mandated minimum plays, which IMO is a good thing anyway.
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Post by davecisar on Nov 25, 2009 17:54:20 GMT -6
Agreed, Ive always played my kids X amount, even in the leagues Ive been in with no MMP rules THis puts us on a more fair playing field with MMP rules, however my guess is most of my opponents dont always get the kids in like we do. But it's better than the alternative Once played a team that suited up 51 kids and I bet only 15 of them played  |
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Post by bobgoodman on Nov 26, 2009 14:29:24 GMT -6
I think I have one form of uncovered pass that's pretty foolproof, and that's to a flanker in fly motion toward the ball. He catches it in stride, and although that's not forward motion, it's better than flat footed. If a defender wants to play close, he's got the choice of giving up the inside, which is foolish, or turning and trying to stay with the receiver, which means losing sight of him, and he may have stopped and gone downfield after the snap. The only drawback is that you don't have much time in which to make the throw at different spots, because the motion player is covering the ground pretty fast, and he's not going to start out wider than the passer can throw. How is that throwing uncovered? ...................................S................. ..C..........................L..........L......................C ........................L...........................L ............................V....V.......V....V..................... X.........................T....G...C...G...T....................Y ........Z...................................................H .................................H..Q Z and H are "uncovered" If you were to put one of them into motion, wouldn't you be, in essence, running them into "covered." Yes, the way you have them figured above that would be from uncovered into coverage. What I meant, but didn't write (sorry) was that if the other team didn't react to the fly motion, a flanker who was covered in the initial formation would be open to the inside. If they did react to the fly motion and tried to stay tight, then the flanker also could come uncovered by stopping suddenly. So the only way to prevent either of those would be to allow some cushion, and then the immediate throw would still be safe unless the defender knew the exact time to step up (i.e. guessed the snap count) and knew an immediate throw was coming. |
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Post by breadandbutter on Dec 14, 2009 22:03:34 GMT -6
Our problem was we didnt know if we wanted to be Missouri or WVU. Sorry to be off topic but I thought it was cool you mentioned WVU. That is my favorite team and I do miss when Rich Rod was running the spread with Pat White. |
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Post by coachayinde on Jan 28, 2010 1:07:35 GMT -6
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Post by paschke1980 on Feb 14, 2018 11:51:39 GMT -6
The playbook isn't up anymore. Could you re post it?
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Davs
Sophomore Member
Posts: 186 
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Post by Davs on Feb 16, 2018 23:40:22 GMT -6
Next year ill be the offensive coordinator for a JV youth team ages 11-12. This past season I was the O-Line coach for a stubborn head coach who would not use anything but Power I and pro-set, and he never threw the ball. Needless to say we rarely scored, and It seemed like the defenses new our plays better than we did. I suggested some spread concepts and motions, but it all went on deaf ears. A couple of times when the head coach was not at practice I introduced the kids to some spread formations with zone running and screens, and you should have seen their eyes light up. They were having fun! However, as soon as the head coach returned he scrapped the spread, and became angry at me for undermining his authority. Next season I want to implement the spread offense. I would appreciate any ideas on simple blocking schemes for the inside and outside zone reads, screen packages, and some short quick playaction passing. The kids picked up the zone blocking assignments relatively quickly when you pointed out who they were blocking. The recent head coach constantly demanded that these kids push the d-linemen 5 yds down field on drive blocks. That rarely can be accomplished cause these kids are basically the same size and stregnth. I would greatly appreciate any imput from any coach here who has used the spread at the youth level, and what worked for them. Thanks You ran stuff behind the head coaches back? Very much not cool. Maybe he sucks, or maybe he doesn't. The thing I have learned over the years is you can disagree with a header or coordinator, but you do it in private. If they don't respect your thoughts move on. Don't bring the kids into it. |
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Post by louthecoach on Nov 21, 2023 17:23:29 GMT -6
Coach, Can you give me your blocking schemes for inside, outside and counter runs?
Thanks,
Coach Lou
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Post by 44special on Apr 8, 2024 8:14:45 GMT -6
just a few scattered, disorganized thoughts, (cuz that's the way my brain is now) brought about by one thing or another that i've read -
(i don't know how to quote just a part of someone else's post, so that makes mine seem somewhat harder to follow sometimes. or maybe all the time. and sometimes what i read makes me think of something else related to it. so not always specifically about it).
also, not really sure why i started commenting on youth fb, because i've never been around it and know nothing about it. i guess
i'm easily bored, and
i used to know stuff about fb.
i may offend someone with a comment or 2, but hopefully you won't take it that way. as i said, i've never even seen a youth game, so i have no familiarity whatsoever.
if i haven't lost you yet (i tend to ramble), the rest should be a little easier to follow-
i was a dc most of my career. my offensive thoughts are based on a lot of observation, as i wasn't really too involved on that side of the ball.
no idea how youth fb head coaches "hire" assistants, but i will say this, based on my hs coaching career -
in spite of being the dc, i think your most important hire is the o-line coach. if he's bad, you're screwed. you will have a lousy offense with lots of 3 and outs, and it won't matter how good you are on defense, because when you increase the opponents number of plays by 30-50%, you're gonna give up more plays and points.
trust me on this.
knowing the amount of time and technique it takes to have a good, consistent zone blocking scheme, i find it hard to believe youth teams can be that good at it. but i suspect (i don't know) that this is offset because the defense will be the same way.
if a mike can't make plays sideline to sideline, (and be trained to stay inside-out on the fb), he shouldn't be the mike. move him somewhere else. (i know lots of coaches who disagree with me about the characteristics of a good mike).
i've had several all-state mike's (in texas, that's saying something; lots of schools/competition) and one who made 1st team all texas super team, which is all lb's from all levels, 1A to 6A. (that's choosing from somewhere in the neighborhood of 1200 to 1300 schools).
they all ranged from 150 to 190 lbs.
and yes, the 150 was just fine on inside runs and power.
they were all smart, they could all hit, and they could all make plays sideline to sideline.
without downplaying the importance of other positions, it's the most important position on the defense, in my opinion. they can help cover up lots of mistakes by others. (another opinon - 4 most important positions - mike, the defensive ends, and the free safety. put your 4 best there).
another opinion -
never pull one your best 11 on defense and replace him with someone of lesser ability unless the replacement is equal or close to equal.
this seldom occurred where i coached.
another opinion -
a bad spread offense is the worst thing in fb. if you're not at least decent at it, do something else. if you don't have the trigger man and guys that can catch, do something else, regardless of your philosophy. you'd be surprised at the number of bad spread teams i coached against at the hs level
.
on the other hand, we got to play our 2nd and 3rd team defensive guys a lot more, so there's that.
another one -
"grass basketball".
this is one reason i don't miss coaching as much as you would think.
fb games shouldn't have bb scores.
i used to really like bb, until i coached it for 10 years. now i can't stand it. the only thing a bb is good for is target practice.
i'm sure many will disagree with one, or all of my opinions. that's ok. i wouldn't want to change this late in life.
but none of it is intended as a shot at anybody.
now i have to go to the doctor. cuz i'm old.
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