|
Post by windigo on Sept 8, 2009 13:19:11 GMT -6
Its a real problem up here. The pop Warner teams in our state are national power houses, you've seen them on ESPN, and the parents are fanatical. Just about every last one of them gets held out a grade so they can play their pop Warner when they are 14 and then get their 4 of high school.
As a freshmen coach for a district that doesn't have a pop warner team its annoying when so much of the other teams freshmen team are all 15 while my kids are all 14.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Sept 9, 2009 21:46:28 GMT -6
Its a real problem up here. The pop Warner teams in our state are national power houses, you've seen them on ESPN, and the parents are fanatical. Just about every last one of them gets held out a grade so they can play their pop Warner when they are 14 and then get their 4 of high school. As a freshmen coach for a district that doesn't have a pop warner team its annoying when so much of the other teams freshmen team are all 15 while my kids are all 14. See, that is the big issue. Obviously the is an advantage involved when some do it, and others don't. (I know..the DUH statement of the year). It is simply the arms race equivalent in h.s. football. If it is THAT popular, I as a taxpayer would complain...because I am paying for 13 years of school for their kids...
|
|
mce86
Junior Member
Posts: 281
|
Post by mce86 on Sept 10, 2009 12:16:43 GMT -6
This is an interesting topic. Lots of kids progress at different rates...is it fair that Johnny reached maturity faster than Billy? Parents can keep kids back for many reasons, and physical maturity is a valid one. You are not going to be a stud just because you are held back, espicially by the time varsity comes....but, you will get a head start! I actually have a cousing (female) who, despite being on honor roll ( she had a early bday) was held back a year when she moved schools. It was for social reasons that she would be around more kids her age, and it has helped her not be so shy!
As a dad, I have one son (16) who had matured much quicker than his brother (15)...If he had like to stay back, and had friends back to mature more, I would not be against it.
If it were to help them be a stronger student would it be okay?
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Sept 10, 2009 19:27:07 GMT -6
If it were to help them be a stronger student would it be okay? Well, this is the part that I think is most interesting. If this is the case, and we are seeing that starting at 6 rather than 5 is superior, why the heck not do that? OR is it that "stronger" becomes relative again...and if everyone started at 6 rather than 5...it would not be noticeable.
|
|
|
Post by mariner42 on Sept 11, 2009 9:21:27 GMT -6
There's a team in our league that had a 16 year old freshman who was held back in 8th grade and then got expelled during his 2nd go-round of 8th (tried to burn down the jr. high office (which is cinder block)). Kid was 16 on the freshman team and just laying people out. He's undersized for his age, but he's not contact shy and I really thought he should have played JV because that's where his physical maturation had him, if nothing else. He's on their JV team this year, which means he's got one year of varsity football ahead of him before he's ineligible to play anymore. Really, really weird scenario.
|
|
|
Post by coachinghopeful on Sept 12, 2009 1:47:52 GMT -6
There's a team in our league that had a 16 year old freshman who was held back in 8th grade and then got expelled during his 2nd go-round of 8th (tried to burn down the jr. high office (which is cinder block)). Kid was 16 on the freshman team and just laying people out. He's undersized for his age, but he's not contact shy and I really thought he should have played JV because that's where his physical maturation had him, if nothing else. He's on their JV team this year, which means he's got one year of varsity football ahead of him before he's ineligible to play anymore. Really, really weird scenario. Reminds me of a local school here which is pretty much THE local traditional power. A couple of years ago everyone raving about the 190lb "freshman phenom" who began starting at RB for them midseason and running all over everybody after dominating in freshman ball. No freshman had started for that team in decades, IIRC. Then I read in a news article that he had turned 16 earlier in the week. Turns out he only slightly younger than most teams' Juniors. I had to laugh at that and roll my eyes. Not sure how he was only a freshman. In a couple of weeks he'll be an 18 year old Jr. and should break all the school's rushing/scoring records before the year's out. I think most of those still belong to Bobby Dodd, IIRC.
|
|
|
Post by johntate90210 on Oct 14, 2014 11:18:55 GMT -6
It's extremely unsportsmanlike and not the least bit different than using steroids. For the guy that said it worked out for some child because he got a scholarship, what about the kid that played fair and actually deserved that scholarship?! Is it so great for him? Is it fair the other essentially cheated him out of what he deserved? In my town there's an 8th grader who has been held back twice in the name of sports. What's that teaching him and the other children? Cheating and using loopholes is all perfectly fine and great! Shoot up with some drug that will slip by the tests while you're at it!
|
|
|
Post by spos21ram on Oct 14, 2014 12:29:12 GMT -6
I really don't see how it's our business whether a kid gets held back or not. Since it was brought up though, I do think holding a kid back in the 8th grade is a little late. Should do it early like in kindergarten. I have a late birthday in December so my parents held me back in kindergarten, even though my "grades" and testing were well above average. I don't think my parent's reason was for sports, but more so the social aspect
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using proboards
|
|
|
Post by rsmith627 on Oct 14, 2014 12:53:21 GMT -6
It's extremely unsportsmanlike and not the least bit different than using steroids. For the guy that said it worked out for some child because he got a scholarship, what about the kid that played fair and actually deserved that scholarship?! Is it so great for him? Is it fair the other essentially cheated him out of what he deserved? In my town there's an 8th grader who has been held back twice in the name of sports. What's that teaching him and the other children? Cheating and using loopholes is all perfectly fine and great! Shoot up with some drug that will slip by the tests while you're at it! Steroids and staying back a year aren't even in the same ball park. Nice slippery slope fallacy though.
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Oct 14, 2014 12:53:43 GMT -6
It's extremely unsportsmanlike and not the least bit different than using steroids. For the guy that said it worked out for some child because he got a scholarship, what about the kid that played fair and actually deserved that scholarship?! Is it so great for him? Is it fair the other essentially cheated him out of what he deserved? In my town there's an 8th grader who has been held back twice in the name of sports. What's that teaching him and the other children? Cheating and using loopholes is all perfectly fine and great! Shoot up with some drug that will slip by the tests while you're at it! It's completely different from using steroids. Steroids are illegal. This is not. The kid who "deserved the scholarship"? He didn't get "Cheated out of it". He didn't lose out because of a few kids who were held back in 8th grade. He missed put because he didn't hit the genetic lottery and wasn't big /fast enough. Was EVERY kid who got a schollie in 1A, 1AA, D.2, and NAIA guilty of cheating?
|
|
|
Post by mattharris75 on Oct 14, 2014 13:04:51 GMT -6
It's extremely unsportsmanlike and not the least bit different than using steroids. For the guy that said it worked out for some child because he got a scholarship, what about the kid that played fair and actually deserved that scholarship?! Is it so great for him? Is it fair the other essentially cheated him out of what he deserved? In my town there's an 8th grader who has been held back twice in the name of sports. What's that teaching him and the other children? Cheating and using loopholes is all perfectly fine and great! Shoot up with some drug that will slip by the tests while you're at it! One post lurker digs up a post from 2009 and goes all irrational sour grapes on it... Really?
|
|
|
Post by mahonz on Oct 14, 2014 13:10:21 GMT -6
It's extremely unsportsmanlike and not the least bit different than using steroids. For the guy that said it worked out for some child because he got a scholarship, what about the kid that played fair and actually deserved that scholarship?! Is it so great for him? Is it fair the other essentially cheated him out of what he deserved? In my town there's an 8th grader who has been held back twice in the name of sports. What's that teaching him and the other children? Cheating and using loopholes is all perfectly fine and great! Shoot up with some drug that will slip by the tests while you're at it! One post lurker digs up a post from 2009 and goes all irrational sour grapes on it... Really? Maybe the OP will let us know how it all worked out?
|
|
|
Post by gibbs72 on Oct 14, 2014 13:32:12 GMT -6
Ohio has the same eligibility rule about turning 19 at some point--not sure when the exact cut-off date is....... Back 21 years ago it read "cannot be 19 before the start of school senior year". I think it is now August 1st. Shoot, in Kansas, those two days will be one in the same in a few more years.
|
|
|
Post by spos21ram on Oct 14, 2014 13:54:35 GMT -6
I didn't even notice this was a resurrected thread because it was from my phone and just saw the steroid remark. This isn't even close to steroids. Kind of a rediculous comment.....I did notice a lot of people say something along the lines of "this is quite common at _______." I bet no one would complain if a 15 year old genetic freak, that stayed back in 8th grade, walked into your program as a freshman. I know I would welcome him.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using proboards
|
|
|
Post by Cody Gardner on Oct 14, 2014 18:54:27 GMT -6
Didn't Andrew Wiggins do this but once he had his scholly offers get re-classified as a Sr in this 3rd year of high school?
|
|
creid
Sophomore Member
Posts: 148
|
Post by creid on Oct 14, 2014 20:44:22 GMT -6
Completely legal where I coach. We have a bunch of kids who repeat..as do our opponents. The extra year of academic, social, and physical maturity is invaluable. I work at a private school and the eligibility rule is younger than 20 on Sept 1st. We don't have any one who is 19…but we do have a bunch of 18 year old seniors.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2014 23:59:22 GMT -6
Didn't Andrew Wiggins do this but once he had his scholly offers get re-classified as a Sr in this 3rd year of high school? Reclassification happens a lot with elite recruits, but it usually goes the other way. Some of the kids in the Rivals Top 150 freshmen and sophomore classes will transfer halfway across the country to be reclassified and gain an extra year. It's very bad in some places. I used to work right near the TN/KY line and it was a running gag how old the players on the KY teams really were. Our MS coach, who was not known to make stuff up, told stories about opposing teams having kids with full beards drive themselves to MS games and suiting up.
|
|