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Post by jgordon1 on Aug 27, 2009 23:07:03 GMT -6
A couple of points.. I used to work w/ a guy (no names needed) he used to say..(he was an offensive line coach) you need to know #1 who to block, then #2 how to block to then #3 how can I improve my blocks..the point being that all the details and fundemantals in the world won't work unless you know where you are first going..the if in doubt fire out arguement does not work and to use a cliche..knowledge is power...we had an in-service at school today...and I actually paid attention for a few brief minutes  ..one of the things this guy said was that #1 you have to know the "hinge point" of your class..ie..when was it time to move along or spend time reteaching (coaching)...one of the points he made was that "peer review" and peer teaching were great tools to use..he presented some BS "harvard studies" but just think you truly don't understand the material until you have to break it down and then teach it |
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Post by touchdownmaker on Aug 28, 2009 2:55:53 GMT -6
example, we gave up two long td runs in our first scrimmage. One play we had both our linebackers completely unblocked, they had their key, scraped (too far) and because they took inadequate angles the back was able to simply cut back under them and out run them.
Either backer could have made the tackle with a proper angle. The play should have been killed at the los because our defense had the offense beaten by alignment alone. The other coach could use the "give it to the fast kid and watch him run" kind of "good coaching" - so , for us, rather than playing "they run this" with our linebackers, we need work on staying square and playing the football inside out with the backside backer. eye opener /machine gun type drills.
I cant afford to spend time working on "cover 3, 4, 5" when I have linebackers that over run a dive or iso or off tackle play.
similarly, linemen who stand up on the snap of the ball rather than taking a power step, whats the point of playing multiple fronts if we need to spend three times the normal amount of time on that stuff.
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Post by brophy on Aug 28, 2009 4:44:34 GMT -6
Part of technique/fundamental responsibilities that is most important (IMO) is being clear about what NOT to do (what ISN'T important to the position). It is one thing to say what to do, but defining the limits of that responsibility is just as valuable. We call this, WIN (What's Important Now). Most of the time there is typically only 3 things a position really needs to worry about vs certain formations (understanding his role at a particular time). Eliminate the fluff be elucidating the only thing that matters ("you can only be threatened by lead iso F on an inside angle") and nothing else matters until this threat is clearly eliminated. This creates a binary logic algorithym - very clear metrics on what is important (based on eliminating everything that isn't). This comes by compartmentalizing the field with dividers for DBs, gap control based on back alignment with LBs, etc......reduce the amount of elements that a player can be forced to hesitate over How do you eat an elephant? One piece at a time so , for us, rather than playing "they run this" with our linebackers, we need work on staying square and playing the football inside out with the backside backer. eye opener /machine gun type drills. I'm not so sure. Those are drills that exist in a vaccuum environment with no context. The enforce hip leverage but not ball leverage/fits. You have to set the parameters of the scrape, "Here is 'power', on THIS key, you should push off the outside foot to shuffle twice into opposite B gap" (rather than just chase ball). He should be in position (not out of his AO) and be ready for tackle or spilling I cant afford to spend time working on "cover 3, 4, 5" when I have linebackers that over run a dive or iso or off tackle play. I would look into the efficiency of the teaching methods and that the drills they are doing have real-world/ contextual applications. A kid may be a world beater in a drill, but have no idea how to apply that skill set to what he sees on the field. How consistent is the "next play" concept with what (skill sets) you have already built. If a new defense has no connection with what was previously ran, the kids will be lost (ie; C3 is just like C1, except......C3 is just like C2, except.....) |
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Post by touchdownmaker on Aug 28, 2009 5:58:40 GMT -6
yeah like " never get reached" "dont allow the jump through", two golden rules
if they dont apply the golden rules then defending the blocking schemes like down and fold , trap, G or veer dont mean much...
Point is, back to the original post, theres a whole lot of fluff discussion here and elsewhere about what we THINK our kids are going to do based on coaching vs what they actually do/understand/dont understand.
Example "joey, whats your job on play xyz?" joey " I cut the backside tackle"...game comes, you call xyz and joey runs a post pattern.
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Post by brophy on Aug 28, 2009 7:27:04 GMT -6
yeah like " never get reached" "dont allow the jump through", two golden rules no. Not platitudes and ideas, but clear directives. yada yada if they dont apply the golden rules then defending the blocking schemes like down and fold , trap, G or veer dont mean much... those platitudes are empty guidelines that provide a simple definition of the actual directive of the response. "you need to keep your outside shoulder free" - (idea) THIS is how you do that. (directive) THIS is how you do that on THIS play.....(directive in the context of what you want them doing on game night) Point is, back to the original post, theres a whole lot of fluff discussion here and elsewhere about what we THINK our kids are going to do based on coaching vs what they actually do/understand/dont understand. I think there may be an allowed DELUSION of coaches who THINK they are 'coaching', but are just delivering what they have heard others say/wrote. The "Fluff" is on the coaches, not the kids. It becomes "fluff" when what you think you're teaching isn't translated to actual step-by-step performance. Repeating ourselves, saying it LOUDER, saying it more and more exhasperated is not "teaching". Finding various ways to deliver the same message, in the hope that ALL of our kids connect with one of those ways is what coaching is. Example "joey, whats your job on play xyz?" joey " I cut the backside tackle"...game comes, you call xyz and joey runs a post pattern. isn't that the point, though? we should be teaching methodology (dynamic comprehension of team), not obedience (rote answers). Identify all the duties (and thus all the skills) required of the players of your defense. W.I.N. What's Important Now What is the most important thing for a specific position? What is the one thing that could make (this position) look bad? The bubble LBs main job, his immediate threat is Iso. He should look for (expect) that FIRST on any play with 2-backs And more importantly, what is NOT important. A cover 3 corner really has no concern on immediate run (support), so throwing that into his logic-string on play keys is only going to slow him down. Ever see "Platoon" and Willem DaFoe's character starts stripping Charlie Sheen's character of superflous gear?  Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Don't give your players worthless sh*t to carry into a game/play. Don't defend the planet....just concern yourself with your house first, your neighborhood second. TEAM DEFENSE Personally, I would see EVERY defensive player as interchangeable parts. They ALL have to have certain skill sets to perform at a modicum of competency on defense. They all must be able to Tackle, defeat blocks/escape(leverage), and hustle. Those tenets would be reinforced as the blessed trinity EVERYDAY, even if for only 5 minutes. It is a psychological ploy to get the players to believe in their ability to do these, as well as reinforce their importance. GROUP DEFENSE Once these 3 prerequisites are founded, you can move onto the minutiae of position skill set. Get-offs, drops, angles will be different for each group, but the basic LB technique of taking on a lead block would remain consistent. INDY DEFENSE The position-specific technique portion for a player is built upon the proceeding 2 elements. This is where you would concentrate on the double-teams a nose would face and which hand he should have down and what leverage he needs to maintain. I want to say that most of this stuff, I have personally outlined (for myself) and it is the 3 articles on my sitekreator page (spells out the how's and why's of what I have done) |
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Post by dc207 on Aug 28, 2009 8:09:46 GMT -6
I think a survey would find an inverse correlation between length of team period, and coaching of details. The longer a coach schedules for TEAM, the worse the details will be. True in a lot of ways. |
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Post by dubber on Aug 28, 2009 8:51:34 GMT -6
yeah like " never get reached" "dont allow the jump through", two golden rules no. Not platitudes and ideas, but clear directives. yada yada those platitudes are empty guidelines that provide a simple definition of the actual directive of the response. "you need to keep your outside shoulder free" - (idea) THIS is how you do that. (directive) THIS is how you do that on THIS play.....(directive in the context of what you want them doing on game night) I think there may be an allowed DELUSION of coaches who THINK they are 'coaching', but are just delivering what they have heard others say/wrote. The "Fluff" is on the coaches, not the kids. It becomes "fluff" when what you think you're teaching isn't translated to actual step-by-step performance. Repeating ourselves, saying it LOUDER, saying it more and more exhasperated is not "teaching". Finding various ways to deliver the same message, in the hope that ALL of our kids connect with one of those ways is what coaching is. isn't that the point, though? we should be teaching methodology (dynamic comprehension of team), not obedience (rote answers). Identify all the duties (and thus all the skills) required of the players of your defense. W.I.N. What's Important Now What is the most important thing for a specific position? What is the one thing that could make (this position) look bad? The bubble LBs main job, his immediate threat is Iso. He should look for (expect) that FIRST on any play with 2-backs And more importantly, what is NOT important. A cover 3 corner really has no concern on immediate run (support), so throwing that into his logic-string on play keys is only going to slow him down. Ever see "Platoon" and Willem DaFoe's character starts stripping Charlie Sheen's character of superflous gear? Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Don't give your players worthless sh*t to carry into a game/play. Don't defend the planet....just concern yourself with your house first, your neighborhood second. TEAM DEFENSE Personally, I would see EVERY defensive player as interchangeable parts. They ALL have to have certain skill sets to perform at a modicum of competency on defense. They all must be able to Tackle, defeat blocks/escape(leverage), and hustle. Those tenets would be reinforced as the blessed trinity EVERYDAY, even if for only 5 minutes. It is a psychological ploy to get the players to believe in their ability to do these, as well as reinforce their importance. GROUP DEFENSE Once these 3 prerequisites are founded, you can move onto the minutiae of position skill set. Get-offs, drops, angles will be different for each group, but the basic LB technique of taking on a lead block would remain consistent. INDY DEFENSE The position-specific technique portion for a player is built upon the proceeding 2 elements. This is where you would concentrate on the double-teams a nose would face and which hand he should have down and what leverage he needs to maintain. I want to say that most of this stuff, I have personally outlined (for myself) and it is the 3 articles on my sitekreator page (spells out the how's and why's of what I have done) Fantastic post. |
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Post by knight9299 on Aug 28, 2009 10:25:17 GMT -6
Having coached mainly sophomore and freshmen in my short time, I always thought it was my job as to get the basics taught for the varsity coaches. Unless a new system is installed or new techniques introduced, by the time a player is a junior he better have the basics down so the varsity coaches can really polish and focus on the sutble details. Best compliment I ever got as a coach was my second year at a school where the Varsity head coach told me that the dline and oline were so far ahead on technique and alignment compared to the previous years. If I coached a kid for 2 years and he still doesn't know what do as a varsity player, I screwed up.
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Post by brophy on Aug 28, 2009 10:57:34 GMT -6
I may be in the minority here, but "coaching football", to be done at a consistently high level, ought not to be anything different than training musicians or dancers.....it is a skilled art.
Ever watch a trained dancer just "dance"?
Ever listen to a trained musician just "play"?
You can see the dancer going through choreographed sequences, counting out the steps....rather than just free-styling "weight-shifting".
The studio musician will be pitch-perfect in execution, but lacking a soulful, 'human' dynamic of sloppy phrasing.
It may seem stiff, or contrived, prefabricated........but it IS consistent, flawless, and correct. What it may lack in excitement or imagination, it more than makes up for with stalwart production..........and sexy or not, THAT is what we are after.
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Post by caneman on Aug 28, 2009 12:56:26 GMT -6
A couple of points.. I used to work w/ a guy (no names needed) he used to say..(he was an offensive line coach) you need to know #1 who to block, then #2 how to block to then #3 how can I improve my blocks.. I have heard that said as "assignment before technique", I know it works for some coaches. I am kind of in between on this discussion, somewhere in the middle of giving them some basic fundamentals at the beginning to get them to start repping their assignment in team, as this will show the weaknesses in their technique that can be improved upon during indy. |
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..one of the things this guy said was that #1 you have to know the "hinge point" of your class..ie..when was it time to move along or spend time reteaching (coaching)...one of the points he made was that "peer review" and peer teaching were great tools to use..he presented some BS "harvard studies" but just think you truly don't understand the material until you have to break it down and then teach it
