stylee
Sophomore Member
Posts: 178
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Post by stylee on Mar 8, 2009 14:58:27 GMT -6
I caught a lot of heat for a call I (along with the head coach) made at the end of a game last night.
4th down and we were down by 3 on the 7 yard line and our kicker was hurt. The team we were playing was in a 3-4, with the outside backers coming down right outside the DEs. We had success throwing the ball all game long EXCEPT in the redzone when they would blitz and spy our QB. We went double tight and pitched to our best RB to the side of our best O-linemen and tight end. Missed a block and got tackled at the 1 and a half yard line.
So I was hearing a lot of criticism from the players and fans. Maybe it wasn't a great play call, I don't know, but we had reasons for it.
Do yall bother justifying your decisions to fans/players?
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Post by touchdownmaker on Mar 8, 2009 15:10:57 GMT -6
NO. Play calling is one of the smallest parts of being a football coach.
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poli
Freshmen Member
Posts: 27
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Post by poli on Mar 8, 2009 15:21:54 GMT -6
I've explained a play call or two to an assistant after the game...but I've never explained it to parents or players.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Mar 8, 2009 15:25:47 GMT -6
Really, do you explain all of the calls that work? no you dont. Nor do you explain all of the calls that do not.
In the end, its more about execution than play calling. The play works, youre brilliant. it doesnt, youre a moron.
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Post by mahonz on Mar 8, 2009 15:53:32 GMT -6
NO. Play calling is one of the smallest parts of being a football coach. That would be true if you only had one play in the playbook. Play calling is scratching an itch, recognizing a tendency, your eyes in the sky, a substitution, creating the setup, taking what is given, listening to assistants, white boarding between series, scripting off scouting reports.....and so on. Play calling is a skill. Very important. Its the only part of coaching that cannot be exacted during the week...only on gameday. The term out-coahing your opponent comes to mind. Good play calling followed by better play calling with adjustments. Coach Mike
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Post by touchdownmaker on Mar 8, 2009 17:24:25 GMT -6
You can out coach someone all week Mike. If your kids miss a block was it a bad play call? the OP said they missed a block. Kid makes the block, back scores, no question it was the right call. The fact is, they made a whole series of calls to put their kids in positions to score and win and it didnt end that way unfortunately.
There are so many things, so many decisions that happen during the course of the week in high school football that one play call can seem insignificant when compared to the sum of the parts from the rest of the week. Thats all I am saying. Perhaps it was more important to consider WHO YOU RAN BEHIND or WHO CARRIED THE BALL or WHO YOU WERE TO RUN AT or WHO YOU WERE TO RUN AWAY FROM then the actual play call.
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Post by coach4life on Mar 8, 2009 17:40:37 GMT -6
If it's someone who's opinion you value and there is a learning opportunity, by all means discuss it with them.
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Post by unc31 on Mar 8, 2009 18:05:50 GMT -6
The first question that comes to my mind is: Who do you coach for that you were playing last night? In reference to your question, I would never shy away from telling anyone why I called a play. You certainly called the play you thought would work based on the information you had at hand and the flow of the game. You can't apologize OR make excuses. You called what you thought would work. End of story. Don't beat yourself up and live to play another day.
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cmpd
Sophomore Member
Posts: 136
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Post by cmpd on Mar 8, 2009 18:26:20 GMT -6
It is easy to sit in the stands and critique a coach's decisions. If any of those people thought they could do a better job , they would not be in the stands.
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Post by coachrji on Mar 8, 2009 18:28:32 GMT -6
I second that...my only question to you is... where and who are you coaching in March?!!
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Post by shortpunter on Mar 8, 2009 18:37:37 GMT -6
I always see playcalling as something that is probing at first then it becomes a feeling thing as I have set them up. Overall a good call can make you a hero the same call if not executed can make you a goat. It all comes down to the kids making the plays
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stylee
Sophomore Member
Posts: 178
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Post by stylee on Mar 8, 2009 18:48:54 GMT -6
Our semi-pro league plays in the spring/early summer. We used to play in the summer/fall NAFL, a national league, but travel costs became too great.
Thanks for the advice, guys. This was our second game of the season and the first in which I called the majority of the plays. I'm learning.
It's complicated because I was a teammate to most of the guys on the team before my injuries. Hard to go from buddy to dictator.
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Post by ajreaper on Mar 8, 2009 19:26:03 GMT -6
You ran the ball with your best back carrying it behind your best lineman and came up just short (and that play any other time is a great call as it netted you 5+ yards)- I believe in critical situations it's more about the player/players then the specific play, you had your best back behind your best lineman how much better a call could you have made? (I mean really you want your 2nd or 3rd back behind your 2nd or 3rd lineman in that situation?)- just my 2 cents.
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Post by jhanawa on Mar 8, 2009 19:48:34 GMT -6
IMO only you and your staff know your team and your teams capabilities, so toss might have been the best choice for your team whereas veer would be the best for mine. Thats why you put in the hours that you do and as a result know the abilities of your team to execute. Even thought the fans might think its a great call to run a sprintout pass to trips, realistically it makes no sense if your team can't execute it. Bottom line, go with what your team does best.
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Post by bobgoodman on Mar 8, 2009 19:52:16 GMT -6
IMO the only play calling worth discussing, ever, is whether to call certain plays more or less frequently. I would never even bother to discuss, from either end, the choice of play on a single, isolated down. This is based on my belief that the vast majority of calls would be subject to oddment (in game theory) rather than mini-max -- and those based on mini-max would for other reasons not be worth discussing.
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Post by thakatalyst on Mar 8, 2009 20:01:25 GMT -6
As a coach, I explain playcalling and why I call certain things in certain situations to my assistants and my players. I want them to understand why we do things. It's not a "because I said so" kind of thing for me. I feel that they will be more comfortable if they know what I'm thinking. We also practice a lot of situations at game speed, so that when that time comes, it isn't foreign to them. Why would I do something different in a game than I do in practice? An argument can, and probably will be made, that games and practices are different. Well, yes, but I'm not into calling plays based on "feel." I try to be a little bit more calculated than that and to trust what I've seen out of my opponent. If you run the ball to your TE 80% of the time on 1st down, I'll make the necessary stunt or run blitz to "try" to stop you. I'll take that 20% chance of failure any day. You probably felt the same way when you made that call.
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Post by khalfie on Mar 8, 2009 20:18:01 GMT -6
Don't whine, don't complain, don't make excuses... You lost one. Start explaining your play calling rationale now, and you'll be explaining it all year. You are a coach, because someone believed in your ability to get it done. So get it done, until that someone tells you that your services aren't needed any longer. if you start coaching by committee, start looking for others to validate your decisions, then you might as well pass the whistle and let the next man take a shot. You are not guaranteed the right to coach forever... however, you are the coach right now... if someone asks you why... you tell them because you deemed it best for the team, and leave it at that. Don't get into pi$$ing contest, when everyone is talking about your PECKER!
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Post by thakatalyst on Mar 8, 2009 20:38:58 GMT -6
True, Khalfie, but I feel that if playcalling is explained to the people actually executing your offense or defense, the team and players are better for it in the long run. They have a right to know what's going on. They are a part of the program, too. These aren't pieces on a chess board. They're not just X's and O's on a piece of paper.
I ALWAYS explain to my players why I call something...and I've never had one come up and tell me that we should have done this or that because they know the game plan from day one. They also know that if something doesn't work in practice, we're going to find a solution so come game time, we're good to go.
I want my players to know what I'm going to call on 3rd and long. If they're unhappy with it, guess what, it's my job as a coach to explain why we're doing it and get them to buy-in. I won't tell my players to get into the weightroom cause I'm coach and cause I said so. I'll tell them why and how it will benefit them and the team. If still they don't like it, they can play intramural sports.
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Post by khalfie on Mar 8, 2009 20:50:27 GMT -6
True, Khalfie, but I feel that if playcalling is explained to the people actually executing your offense or defense, the team and players are better for it in the long run. They have a right to know what's going on. They are a part of the program, too. These aren't pieces on a chess board. They're not just X's and O's on a piece of paper. I ALWAYS explain to my players why I call something...and I've never had one come up and tell me that we should have done this or that because they know the game plan from day one. They also know that if something doesn't work in practice, we're going to find a solution so come game time, we're good to go. I want my players to know what I'm going to call on 3rd and long. If they're unhappy with it, guess what, it's my job as a coach to explain why we're doing it and get them to buy-in. I won't tell my players to get into the weightroom cause I'm coach and cause I said so. I'll tell them why and how it will benefit them and the team. If still they don't like it, they can play intramural sports. Can't argue with your rationale... even like your philosophy... However, the complaints are coming at the end of a game we just lost. That's finger pointing in my book... won't be a part of it... More so, would be thoroughly disappointed with my team, to even be questioned as such, after a tough loss. Similar to yourself... I will spend all week breaking down our opponent, preparing our team, for the forth coming game. Rationale will be explained... thought process will be in the game plan... Shame on me, if everyone doesn't know what play we are going to call when we need the big playl. Where were their questions during the week, were there questions I didn't answer? Because to confront me after the game... after a loss... well, to me... seems disingenious... that type of questioning isn't about knowledge and information.... its finger pointing.... its the blame game... and I won't be a part of that. You can blame me... I am the coach... it comes with the territory, but don't expect me to participate in that type of conversation... its unproductive at best, and completely devicive at worst.
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Post by thakatalyst on Mar 8, 2009 21:01:13 GMT -6
I think we're saying the same things here, Khalfie. My intentions with the last post were not to say you were wrong nor was I questioning what you do. I just wanted to explain what we do.
"Where were their questions during the week, were there questions I didn't answer? Because to confront me after the game... after a loss... well, to me... seems disingenious... that type of questioning isn't about knowledge and information.... its finger pointing.... its the blame game... and I won't be a part of that." I agree with this 100%!
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Post by mahonz on Mar 8, 2009 23:00:07 GMT -6
Our semi-pro league plays in the spring/early summer. We used to play in the summer/fall NAFL, a national league, but travel costs became too great. Thanks for the advice, guys. This was our second game of the season and the first in which I called the majority of the plays. I'm learning. It's complicated because I was a teammate to most of the guys on the team before my injuries. Hard to go from buddy to dictator. Coach I have coached semi pro ball the last 5 years, 4 as the OC and one as the DC. I know exactaly what you are saying here because coaching semi pro ball is very difficult. You practice once or twice a week...no film study or film exchange...few coaches meetings...no scouting reports....show up on Saturday night and shoot from the hip. We have had experienced college coaches quit in pre season because its pure mayhem and why I like it. I was very successful because I had huge balls. Had I been in your shoes I would have run a fake field goal...call time out and draw it up in the dirt. Under the circumstances your opponent would expect you to go for the easy 3 and the tie regardless of injury. Stay confident and listen to your position coaches. That is key. Unless you have coached semi pro before its hard for anyone to understand how insane it really is. Now you know. Coach Mike
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Post by touchdownmaker on Mar 9, 2009 3:22:35 GMT -6
One thing I would address if I were you is the players questioning your play calling. Make sure you break down that film as a team and make a huge deal about the missed block and show them what happened right and wrong in that scenario. Id not tolerate the cancers on the team griping about play calling. They can either play or they coach , they cannot do both.
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Post by jpdaley25 on Mar 9, 2009 5:22:32 GMT -6
This a quote by from the movie "The Ghosts and the Darkness:"
"I could tell you that with the smell of flesh and blood in here, this makes for an inviting target. I could tell you that I just saw fresh paw prints outside, which makes me think that they are already thinking of feasting in here. But I don't want to explain myself to you 'cause that would mean that I don't know what I'm doing!"
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Post by fatkicker on Mar 9, 2009 6:41:18 GMT -6
i wish we could put a microphone in the stands........maybe jump in a screaming dad's face and tell him he's got 4 seconds to decide on a play.....
nevermind this 4 seconds includes remembering every 3rd down in this particular game AND on the film.....the fact that your left tackle is hurt and their right corner is a freshman and about 100 other things that run through your mind in 4 seconds.....
my favorite response is "He!! if i woulda known 28 toss was gonna get stuffed then i wouldn'ta called that sh!t !!"
f.k.
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Post by coachgup on Mar 9, 2009 7:26:44 GMT -6
I am always willing to discuss stuff with the coaching staff but never with fans/parents.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Mar 9, 2009 7:37:03 GMT -6
i wish we could put a microphone in the stands........maybe jump in a screaming dad's face and tell him he's got 4 seconds to decide on a play..... nevermind this 4 seconds includes remembering every 3rd down in this particular game AND on the film.....the fact that your left tackle is hurt and their right corner is a freshman and about 100 other things that run through your mind in 4 seconds..... my favorite response is "He!! if i woulda known 28 toss was gonna get stuffed then i wouldn'ta called that sh!t !!" f.k. My favorite response to anyone who questions my knowledge or ability as a coach is " ill be up at 2 am breaking down films, doing the bulletin boards and stuffing envelopes. Cmon over, Ill put on fresh coffee and we can start working on the game plan. Youll need to have defensive adjustments for buck sweep, belly, jet and veer packages as we face a top notch delaware team" (they wont even know what that means) start working on this film and compile the tendencies for me. (reaching into my gym bag as if pulling out game film).
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Post by gdoggwr on Mar 9, 2009 8:11:41 GMT -6
Explain it to the players, maybe. Not to defend yourself but to help them understand the game. To the fans in the stands, never.
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Post by gdoggwr on Mar 9, 2009 8:15:18 GMT -6
Explain it to the players, maybe. Not to defend yourself but to help them understand the game. To the fans in the stands, never. To add too/clarify my statement. Explain as in part of coaching to help players understand the game. Justify a decision because players are complaining, never.
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stylee
Sophomore Member
Posts: 178
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Post by stylee on Mar 9, 2009 8:38:27 GMT -6
Again, thanks for the advice. There seems to be some agreement in most of these posts and I think I'll take that road.
Yeah, Mahonz, it is absolutely insane. Our head coach before the season started quit after a week on the "job." He had 20 years of college coaching experience. Out of curiosity, who do you coach?
There's a, ahem, unique set of challenges facing semi-pro coaches.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2009 9:37:20 GMT -6
My favorite story goes back to the days when QBs called their own plays and Notre Dame QB Paul Hornung made a call late in the game and threw an interception and the Irish lost.
Monday in the locker room and newspaperman asked him why he made that call on that play that resulted in a loss and Hornung said, "Because I didn't have all weekend to think about it like you did."
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