|
Post by gpoulin76 on Feb 24, 2009 9:46:56 GMT -6
Coaches,
Let me give you a brief background with our situation.
For a large school we have a very small weight room. To increase our efficiency and improve our off-season program, we spent nearly $30,000 and updated it with a double-sided half rack system. We are planning on raising another $30,000 for the future phases. It has been great. Our kids are getting more done, in less time, and our intensity is very high. Everyone is working, no standing around, no BS.
Our athletes love it, and nearly all of the other sports programs donated money to use this system. We have no use for machines in our program, and we base our program around the Olympic lifts.
The PE Department at our school was dead set against this system and they still are. Nearly everyone in that department hates the change. For them, they would rather use machines with their PE kids. They claim their kids can't use free weights. Personally, I feel like they don't want to take the time to teach them, but I do understand their point of view.
Basically, our philosophy with training athletes differs from their philosophy of training the "general population."
We plan on moving forward for the second phase of the project and they are against it, believe it is a waste of money, blah blah. Their vision is to bring back the machines, no platforms, etc.
Have any of you guys had these same problems of getting the PE Department and sports programs on the same page. What did you do to resolve the problem? How did you get them on board with you vision?
Thank you in advance.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Feb 24, 2009 9:54:10 GMT -6
gpoulin...what part of your staff is on campus teachers.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2009 9:56:00 GMT -6
Most of our PE classes don't have them work with free weights unless it is in a weight-training class and we have outstanding facilities. That is insignificant.
I think it all starts and ends with 1) Did administration approve your improvements 2) Did PE get a chance to voice their disapproval beforehand 3) Did athletics visit with PE about this before it happened
You aren't going to change feelings, and you did what was better in your eyes and maybe better overall. But people have a way of not liking what is mandated to them in deeds and actions. I think the best course of action when making such a move is to go them first and tell them your intentions. Set up a meeting with them and admin. Let admin decide.
Everyone wants to be heard and be validated. Probably doesn't matter if you did what's best for kids or not, the PE dept. probably feels that by changing the weight room you force them to change how they teach. Personally I'd rather have 30 freshmen in the weight room on machines rather than free weights just because I know what 30 freshmen are like in a weight room.
If admin approved it, then PE just has to learn to deal with it. But you'll never get them to admit they like it--even if they do.
I once worked in a school and wasn't teaching PE at the time. Football took an old storage room no one wanted--it had old text books. We made 2/3 into a film room and gave PE 1/3 for storage. They complained because they didn't have a say in the matter and should've received at least half. This room was unused for probalby 5 years. But take it and they all want a say in how it should be used.
On the other hand I taught PE for awhile and got mad when other teachers came into my gym or weight room to work out and didn't put weights away or ropes, or whatever. I finally told the one lady, "You don't catch me going into your room and leaving "Beowulf" all over the place."
|
|
|
Post by gpoulin76 on Feb 24, 2009 10:58:51 GMT -6
coachd5085 - We have a 6 man varsity staff, 3 of us are in the high school including the HC.
irishblitzer - I agree with you completely. We have very weak admin. leadership, and I think the AD dropped the ball with this whole thing.
To answer your questions:
1. Yes, admin. supported it. Our staff sold our prinicpal and AD on the basis of safety and efficiency. We needed to do something to get more bang for our buck out of the weight room. Our principal did a great job of trying to get the PE Dept. on board. Our AD does not deal with the PE Dept. directly, and has our HC talk to them instead.
2. PE teachers did get a chance to talk of their disapproval, but I think it was more for show than anything. One of those "Hey, you can't say we didn't discuss it with you first" type of deals.
3. Athletics did talk to them, but it was well after the money had been raised and after the equipment was ordered. That's where the ball was dropped, IMO.
|
|
|
Post by olinecoach61 on Feb 24, 2009 11:50:03 GMT -6
Throw them a bone and put a couple of machines in a closet. That's what we did. We took an old storage space and put the wieght machines and stationary bikes in there. We took teh actual weightroom for our own use. Kind of a compromise.
|
|
|
Post by ajreaper on Feb 24, 2009 11:51:58 GMT -6
I find it hard to rationalize that folks with a PE teaching credential cannot understand why you want to use free weights instead of machines. There would be a learning curve for them but they can learn to teach basic free weight lifts- no need to go into the explosive lifts but how hard is teaching proper execution of bench and squat and the associated spotting techs for example? Obviously with free weights you cannot come in to the weightroom and read the newspaper but heck no one should be doing that regardless.
|
|
|
Post by coachcb on Feb 24, 2009 19:52:20 GMT -6
If it cleared the administration and they had their say(b-tch) about it, then I wouldn't worry about it.
I am also with ajreaper on this one; how could a group of PE teachers NOT understand the merits of free weights over machines....Sounds to me like they don't want to teach the kids how to weight train, they just want to strap the kids into some machines and call it good.
I wouldn't give on this subject; if just for cost's sake. Machines are expensive; for the price of a decent leg press, you can get two power platforms, each with an Oly bar and a set of plates. Plus, a kid can do ONE exercise on a machine, with a power rack, they can do dozens of exercises.
I coached in a program that had this kind of issue when they built their weight room. The boosters were funding it and the boosters were the ones that bought the equipment... By the time they were done, they bought about a dozen health club machines, 2 squat racks, and ZERO power platforms... The HC at the time retired, the next HC came in, dismantled all of the machines, put them in the closet and bought power racks. I thought the boosters were going to kill him.
|
|
|
Post by touchdowng on Feb 24, 2009 20:23:16 GMT -6
Find some strength clinics and take some of the $ you raised and send the willing PE teachers to it - to teach them how to teach free weights to the general PE population. Then let them know (through a video or whatever) of some of the incredible things SPECIAL OLYMPIC kids are doing with free weights.
If they still can't visualize the advantages of what your efforts have done for the entire school, then those people are nothing by naysayers and have no place working with young people.
We had a similar situation at our school. Two of us FB coaches were able to do all of the weight room ordering when our school opened. Needless to say, the room is incredible. Seven platform racks, plyo boxes, med balls, etc. A few machines along a wall. The GALS had issues that we didn't make the room more like a fitness club.
I took them to a strength clinic at a nearby state university and this sold them.
Now they use the room and have pretty much accepted the fact that our freeweights are here to stay. One of them actually now works with athletes and non-athletes after school and has learned that kids are more excited about a powerclean than they ever will be about a Pec Deck
|
|
|
Post by bigm0073 on Feb 24, 2009 20:42:41 GMT -6
Those teachers are fing Azz clowns... WOw!! They need to get a clue. Have the AD make them idiots go to some clinics... Wow they are clueless....
|
|
|
Post by gpoulin76 on Feb 24, 2009 20:58:51 GMT -6
I appreciate the responses, and I love the clinic idea. It really puts the ball in their court!!!
|
|
|
Post by coachcathey on Feb 24, 2009 20:58:52 GMT -6
First off as a Physical education teacher educator, the idea of using free weights for the "general" population, is scary to those who do not have the knowledge to teach those aspects. And their are those who do not have that ability as they were not team/individual sports, they may have concentrated on the ludic arts such as dance, gymnastics.
The reason that physical education gets a bad name is not that there is bad teaching going on (which there is some), but a majority of the reason is because that there is in fact that a lot of "nonteaching" is taking place. Which puts the students at a disadvantage.
One thing I am noticing is that those coming into the profession have less skills.
|
|
|
Post by gpoulin76 on Feb 24, 2009 21:03:33 GMT -6
One of the other aspects of this issue is that several of these PE teachers have been there for 20-30 years. That weight room had changed very little during that time. They are resistant to that change.
|
|
|
Post by coachjd on Feb 24, 2009 21:16:29 GMT -6
Went through some what of the same situation here. 2 PE teachers have been here forever. I am also a PE teacher and told them our wgt room is a joke and got the admin to support the change. I also had the support of 3 other PE teachers and we just went ahead and did it. Those 2 teachers attempted to make my life a living hell for a couple of years and refused to play along. They have since retired and yes, I did not contribute to their retirement gift!!
|
|
|
Post by touchdowng on Feb 24, 2009 21:16:49 GMT -6
coachcathey
good point about the problems of free weights with the general population as I don't disagree within the context of a weak teacher. However, this same general population is driving cars down the road. It's all about proper training and creating some motivation. If you drive with your eyes shut, guess what happens?
I doubt most general PE classes will spend more than 3 to 4 weeks on a strength training unit. During that time an effective teacher will teach principles of strength training, proper form, proper spotting techniques and a free weight room is the best place to do this if the teacher has the proper mindset.
It doesn't matter if a teacher has been entrenched for 20 or 30 years. If he or she isn't willing to learn some new tricks then that becomes an administration issue.
At the very least the offer of attending some strength clinics would give those entrenched PE teachers an opportunity to put up or shut up.
Sounds like gpoulin76 would be happy if they just shut up but the chance should be offered if they have the resources to send them.
|
|
|
Post by tog on Feb 24, 2009 21:40:03 GMT -6
gawd i am glad i am in Texas
|
|
|
Post by coachcathey on Feb 25, 2009 8:19:02 GMT -6
coachcathey good point about the problems of free weights with the general population as I don't disagree within the context of a weak teacher. However, this same general population is driving cars down the road. It's all about proper training and creating some motivation. If you drive with your eyes shut, guess what happens? I doubt most general PE classes will spend more than 3 to 4 weeks on a strength training unit. During that time an effective teacher will teach principles of strength training, proper form, proper spotting techniques and a free weight room is the best place to do this if the teacher has the proper mindset. It doesn't matter if a teacher has been entrenched for 20 or 30 years. If he or she isn't willing to learn some new tricks then that becomes an administration issue. At the very least the offer of attending some strength clinics would give those entrenched PE teachers an opportunity to put up or shut up. Sounds like gpoulin76 would be happy if they just shut up but the chance should be offered if they have the resources to send them. A lot of it depends on the program you attend as well. I know in ours you are required to take a weight training course and there is also a class that in essence prepares you for the CSCS certification. We have a pretty tough program though.
|
|
|
Post by phantom on Feb 25, 2009 9:46:23 GMT -6
Coaches, Let me give you a brief background with our situation. For a large school we have a very small weight room. To increase our efficiency and improve our off-season program, we spent nearly $30,000 and updated it with a double-sided half rack system. We are planning on raising another $30,000 for the future phases. It has been great. Our kids are getting more done, in less time, and our intensity is very high. Everyone is working, no standing around, no BS. Our athletes love it, and nearly all of the other sports programs donated money to use this system. We have no use for machines in our program, and we base our program around the Olympic lifts. The PE Department at our school was dead set against this system and they still are. Nearly everyone in that department hates the change. For them, they would rather use machines with their PE kids. They claim their kids can't use free weights. Personally, I feel like they don't want to take the time to teach them, but I do understand their point of view. Basically, our philosophy with training athletes differs from their philosophy of training the "general population." We plan on moving forward for the second phase of the project and they are against it, believe it is a waste of money, blah blah. Their vision is to bring back the machines, no platforms, etc. Have any of you guys had these same problems of getting the PE Department and sports programs on the same page. What did you do to resolve the problem? How did you get them on board with you vision? Thank you in advance. Use the Golden Rule- he who has the gold rules. You raised the funds so you decide what to buy. If they like machines-and I do understand why PE classes would prefer machines- then they should find the money to buy them.
|
|
|
Post by touchdownmaker on Feb 25, 2009 10:41:57 GMT -6
Im not about to read the whole thread but if you have pe people dictating what they want in the weight room maybe they can do the fund raising and help with what they want? Im a pe teacher and we NEED SOME machines and SOME CARIO GEAR because if we are going to take NEEDERMYER THE GOTH in the weight room we arent about to have him doing free weight squats with no real supervision. its scary enough putting some of these kids on stationary bikes. trust me.
|
|
|
Post by tim914790 on Feb 25, 2009 10:45:44 GMT -6
In my school I am part of the PE department and we have a super small weight room and have a combination of both, racks and machines. In my county's curriculum we cannot teach most of the olympic lifts but clearly there is a need for them in athletics. We just try and balance as best as we can. I tried to get a lot of the machines moved out for more platforms and racks but the head of my department is a woman and will never go along with a change for "sports" only it has to benefit the students also.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2009 12:14:24 GMT -6
Yes, more people watch football than matball, yes more football players use the weight room than other students, and yes football will raise the money, but that means very little in an argument. Like it or not there are hoops to jump through. If you jump through them properly then who cares if they're happy or not--it was Admin that approved it. If you skip a step because you think you know what's best then don't be surprised when someone makes a stink.
Even college football programs have to adhere to some university guidelines and we know how much money they bring in.
"Yes, Dean Jones, this high school student can't meet our entrance requirements, but we figure that those requirements are for kids who will graduate in 4 years and more people go to a football game than graduation."
Come on. If you do it right then let them complain all they want. If you get what you want why do you have to be right too? If you want to be right then you won't always get what you want.
But if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you need.
GPoulin, this is not pointed at your condition. Sounds like you did it right and they want to have a gripe. Be happy you have what you want and be prepared to add to it in the same manner.
|
|
|
Post by gpoulin76 on Feb 25, 2009 12:25:23 GMT -6
How important are power platforms if we already have rubber flooring? What arguments could I use to justify them other than the "WOW" factor that they provide to the facility. (We are planning on getting the fancy ones with the wood insert and school logo. Right now we are just doing our OLY's off of the rubber flooring.)
Their gripe is that the platforms are unnecessary and will take up floor space.
BTW, its amazing the balls they have to tell us how to use our money.
|
|
ccox16
Junior Member
Posts: 343
|
Post by ccox16 on Feb 25, 2009 12:29:22 GMT -6
Yes, more people watch football than matball, yes more football players use the weight room than other students, and yes football will raise the money, but that means very little in an argument. Like it or not there are hoops to jump through. If you jump through them properly then who cares if they're happy or not--it was Admin that approved it. If you skip a step because you think you know what's best then don't be surprised when someone makes a stink. Even college football programs have to adhere to some university guidelines and we know how much money they bring in. "Yes, Dean Jones, this high school student can't meet our entrance requirements, but we figure that those requirements are for kids who will graduate in 4 years and more people go to a football game than graduation." Come on. If you do it right then let them complain all they want. If you get what you want why do you have to be right too? If you want to be right then you won't always get what you want. But if you try sometimes, you just might find, you get what you need. GPoulin, this is not pointed at your condition. Sounds like you did it right and they want to have a gripe. Be happy you have what you want and be prepared to add to it in the same manner. Irish are you quoting a song here? It just seems a little familar.
|
|
|
Post by jaysea40 on Feb 25, 2009 13:02:02 GMT -6
Coach,
We have gone through a similar change. The best thing we did was run through a tutorial with the new equipment. We treated it like a coaches clinic and gave each teacher who attended a handout with all the important information and then walked through several lifts with them. It has been well received and the older teachers are more comfortable now that they understand how the new equipment is used.
Hope this helps.
|
|
begreat
Junior Member
I don't have a bunch of hobbies, football is my hobby. They just pay me to do it. ---Mike Tomiln
Posts: 293
|
Post by begreat on Feb 25, 2009 21:07:55 GMT -6
TOG I was thinking the same thing as I was reading that. No way it goes down like that at any school in the great state. Plus our OC and DC are the main PE teachers...
|
|
|
Post by coache67 on Feb 26, 2009 7:54:14 GMT -6
What I don't understand how is teaching a kid how to do a squat any more dangerous than handing them a freaking bow and arrow?
|
|
|
Post by red2slam on Feb 26, 2009 8:06:28 GMT -6
and the pussification of this nation continues. F-ing Pe teacher who doesnt want to teach. HMM! FIRE HIM!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2009 8:40:39 GMT -6
What is that all about?
|
|
|
Post by gpoulin76 on Feb 26, 2009 8:51:17 GMT -6
I agree with all of you. But I am trying to find a way to work with them, show leadership, and get them to buy into our vision. I have found it easy to just say "F-it, F-them" as some of you suggest. I am beginning to wonder if it is even possible to get them to buy in
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2009 10:17:30 GMT -6
All you can do is try to show them why you want them to buy in without trying to teach them how to teach.
I honestly believe that if you do that, and it sounds to me like you honestly want to work with them, then if they choose to reject it then you've done all you can.
As the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water. . .
|
|
|
Post by atalbert on Feb 26, 2009 11:15:10 GMT -6
Had the same situation at our school - PE teachers wanted machines so they could send kids in unsupervised to lift. Apparently, they have the option of getting hit in the face with dodgeballs or lifting. Some, for obvious reasons, choose to "lift"
We had a local athletic trainer come in (he had worked with professional athletes) and give a 20 minute presentation on why the machines were useless to the PE dept and administration. He had stacks of studies and charts and so forth. Once he was done, they really had no argument other than they couldn't supervise everyone. The trainer offered to come in for a two week period and teach everyone in PE classes how to do the basic Oly lifts.
We got our platforms and racks, the machines are in the junk pile and the non-athletes are back to getting hit in the face with dodgeballs. IMO, call in the experts to make your case for you.
|
|