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Post by tribe30 on Feb 17, 2009 9:41:12 GMT -6
a few years back was in a similar situation, was a DC and went through a head coaching change and the new guy asked me so stay on as an assistant. Deciding to stay was one of the best decisions i have made, I learned more about being a DC over the next few year watching someone else because i had already done it. it also forced me to learn to coach new positions in a new defense and offense, which made me a better coach. We were a better team with better coaches because a few of us were able to swallow our pride and realize that it was the best thing for the team. It is amazing how as coaches we preach about athletes doing what is best for the team. I tell kids all the time, that they will not play the position that is best for them, they are going to play the position that is best for the team.
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Post by bcurrier on Feb 17, 2009 12:27:21 GMT -6
Hmmm...I wonder how many of the coaches who've posted some version of "get 100% behind the coach or get out" are head coaches themselves...vast majority? all?
As some have acknowledged, there are a number of variables that we don't know about this situation that make it difficult to respond to specifically. But, when ALL of the assistant coaches disagree with the head coach's decision, that ought to raise some red flags. Key elements of leadership include vision, influence, and equipping others to lead. Why hasn't this coach been able to articulate a vision compelling enough to elicit the support of the assistants? Why doesn't he have more influence over them, drawing their support for his decisions, even the unpopular ones? Given a compelling enough vision for something bigger than themselves, people can often be influenced into supporting decisions that are not in their direct personal interest. Why haven't any of these 7 assistants developed far enough under this head coach's tutelage to be able to step into this role that he went outside of the program to fill? Loyalty is not, and cannot be, a one-way street. It starts with an initial investment of trust on the part of both parties and is fostered over time by actions that demonstrate mutual commitment, care, and success. If he wants his staff to be characterized by loyalty, the head coach must model loyalty -- lead by example.
With some thought, it becomes clear that most, if not all, of the arguments used to make the case for simply accepting the head coach's decision can also be used to justify challenging the HC's decision.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Feb 17, 2009 12:55:19 GMT -6
Obviously if a boss comes in and gives everyone a demotion nobody is going to agree with it.
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Post by bcurrier on Feb 17, 2009 13:16:24 GMT -6
Not necessarily -- check out tribe30's response above
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Post by touchdownmaker on Feb 17, 2009 13:22:36 GMT -6
I suppose if Vince Lombardi was hired on staff every one of my assistants would voluteer to take a demotion.
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Post by John Knight on Feb 17, 2009 13:26:46 GMT -6
You bring in a dead guy and bump me down I figure I better get out of the program!
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Post by coachden on Feb 17, 2009 13:41:20 GMT -6
We decided that we need to confront the HC. A lot of us do not want to have to leave the program. We enjoy coaching the kids, and most of the on-campus coaches will probably remain at the school due to various factors.
And I was thinking that if some or majority of the on-campus coaches decide to quit, the administration and board are gonna have some questions. I myself am off-campus, so I am expendable.
Also, I think if some or most of the assistants quit, it will have a huge impact on our players. We truly believe more kids will decide to quit. Most of the staff got here 5 years ago. We've been coaching these varsity players their whole careers. We have their respect and they have ours. And honestly, I don't want to leave if this is the case. A lot of our guys have become better persons because of playing. I would hate for me to quit, and then see them quit.
This is why we want to confront the HC. We're not going to demand our old jobs back, but really try to see what his plan is and why he did this. And again, whoever said loyalty is a two way street is absolutely right. If i have done nothing but totally commit myself to the program (even more than on-campus guys), why should I be content with have a reduced role?
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Post by touchdownmaker on Feb 17, 2009 14:53:14 GMT -6
man I think this stinks. This seriously reminds me of players that say "I only play quarterback or I go play soccer". I feel bad for you guys as a staff because my guess is that if youre going to confront and threaten a walk out you might end up with being thrown out. I cant see a happy ending here. Right now there are probably 50 guys who would jump in your shoes. Just a different view, then again I am not there. What was your record last year?
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Post by coach4life on Feb 17, 2009 15:42:36 GMT -6
We decided that we need to confront the HC. A lot of us do not want to have to leave the program. We enjoy coaching the kids, and most of the on-campus coaches will probably remain at the school due to various factors. And I was thinking that if some or majority of the on-campus coaches decide to quit, the administration and board are gonna have some questions. I myself am off-campus, so I am expendable. Also, I think if some or most of the assistants quit, it will have a huge impact on our players. We truly believe more kids will decide to quit. Most of the staff got here 5 years ago. We've been coaching these varsity players their whole careers. We have their respect and they have ours. And honestly, I don't want to leave if this is the case. A lot of our guys have become better persons because of playing. I would hate for me to quit, and then see them quit. This is why we want to confront the HC. We're not going to demand our old jobs back, but really try to see what his plan is and why he did this. And again, whoever said loyalty is a two way street is absolutely right. If i have done nothing but totally commit myself to the program (even more than on-campus guys), why should I be content with have a reduced role? Just a suggestion, but how about substituting the words "have a discussion with" for "confront". If you go into it in the frame of mind that it is a confrontation, that is most likely what you will get. No one is going to react in a favorable way if he is made to feel you are backing him up against the wall. If you think of it as a discussion I think it will help keep all heads involved in a cooler state of mind. Sounds like a little thing but as we tell the kids all the time, it's the little things that matter. Talking about the kids quitting because you quit is somewhat troubling to me. If you do decide to leave, do so with class. Always leave a place better than it was for your being there, otherwise you just invalidated all of your efforts. And don't ever forget, it's a small world out there - if you create a $^#* storm it could very well come back to bite you later.
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Post by coachden on Feb 17, 2009 18:15:50 GMT -6
I think you guys misunderstood my last post..or maybe I did a bad job writing it. We don't want a confrontation. We don't want to quit. We want reasonable answers. We're civil human beings. No one on the staff has ever quit or done anything to be fired.
I feel honored to coach at this school. And when it comes down to it, I will still take a reduced role on the staff. I can't see myself not coaching at all or at another school. I can't speak for the others. Coaching is part of my personality.
The whole quitting reaction was overkill. I spoke to a few of the guys and we calmed down. We may not agree with the decision but we feel like we deserve a better explanation.
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Post by phantom on Feb 17, 2009 18:29:32 GMT -6
We decided that we need to confront the HC. A lot of us do not want to have to leave the program. We enjoy coaching the kids, and most of the on-campus coaches will probably remain at the school due to various factors. And I was thinking that if some or majority of the on-campus coaches decide to quit, the administration and board are gonna have some questions. I myself am off-campus, so I am expendable. Also, I think if some or most of the assistants quit, it will have a huge impact on our players. We truly believe more kids will decide to quit. Most of the staff got here 5 years ago. We've been coaching these varsity players their whole careers. We have their respect and they have ours. And honestly, I don't want to leave if this is the case. A lot of our guys have become better persons because of playing. I would hate for me to quit, and then see them quit. This is why we want to confront the HC. We're not going to demand our old jobs back, but really try to see what his plan is and why he did this. And again, whoever said loyalty is a two way street is absolutely right. If i have done nothing but totally commit myself to the program (even more than on-campus guys), why should I be content with have a reduced role? So you're going to mutiny? That's loyalty?
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Post by airman on Feb 17, 2009 18:31:16 GMT -6
If I get this right the head coach just decided to hire another guy to run the offense and did not give any reason?
If he did not give any reason then I can see where you might have some frustration. It is only natural you would want some answers.
however if he brought this new guy in to improve the program or because he has a lot of experience and explained this then I have no problem.
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Post by coachden on Feb 17, 2009 18:51:15 GMT -6
There's so many sides to this there is no optimal answer. We're not going to put the guy in the corner and make him pick us over him. The guy is a good coach (despite his questionable tactics). The HC told the offensive staff the new coaches' expertise is offense. Our offense last year was not bad. We were 2nd in the state in passing with a sophomore QB. We can use this guy on defense as he won a state title a few years back as a DC. Regarding loyalty, I will ultimately support the HC no matter how I feel. If he truly feels this guy will help, then so be it. But I don't have to like the decision. I'll deal with and work 100%. I guess thats what an being an assistant is all about. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Post by airman on Feb 17, 2009 19:49:34 GMT -6
There's so many sides to this there is no optimal answer. We're not going to put the guy in the corner and make him pick us over him. The guy is a good coach (despite his questionable tactics). The HC told the offensive staff the new coaches' expertise is offense. Our offense last year was not bad. We were 2nd in the state in passing with a sophomore QB. We can use this guy on defense as he won a state title a few years back as a DC. Regarding loyalty, I will ultimately support the HC no matter how I feel. If he truly feels this guy will help, then so be it. But I don't have to like the decision. I'll deal with and work 100%. I guess thats what an being an assistant is all about. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) there is really only two sides. The head coaches version and the assistant coaches version. It sounds to me there is a level of miscommunication with all parties.
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Post by 19delta on Feb 17, 2009 20:41:46 GMT -6
I can't blame the head coach for wanting to bring in one of "his guys"...taking over a program that has been pretty successful the last few years with a veteran staff that has been together for a while...that can be intimidating. It makes sense to me that the new head coach brings in someone else with him from the outside as a potential ally. And, quite frankly, with the reception he is getting from you guys, it sounds like he needs it. The new head coach has told you guys all you need to know...he is bringing in a guy who is a darned good coach who has a state championship ring. How many of you guys who are on the current staff have a state championship ring? Not that winning a state championship is the be-all, end-all, but it's not like he is bringing in this guy to run the offense: ![](http://www.eteamz.com/lawndaleyouthcardinals/images/HomerSimpson.jpg) Change is hard...it sounds like one of you guys on the previous staff should have applied for the vacant head coaching position if you were so concerned about the kids having consistency.
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Post by coachden on Feb 18, 2009 0:11:54 GMT -6
I can't blame the head coach for wanting to bring in one of "his guys"...taking over a program that has been pretty successful the last few years with a veteran staff that has been together for a while...that can be intimidating. It makes sense to me that the new head coach brings in someone else with him from the outside as a potential ally. And, quite frankly, with the reception he is getting from you guys, it sounds like he needs it. The new head coach has told you guys all you need to know...he is bringing in a guy who is a darned good coach who has a state championship ring. How many of you guys who are on the current staff have a state championship ring? Not that winning a state championship is the be-all, end-all, but it's not like he is bringing in this guy to run the offense: ![](http://www.eteamz.com/lawndaleyouthcardinals/images/HomerSimpson.jpg) Change is hard...it sounds like one of you guys on the previous staff should have applied for the vacant head coaching position if you were so concerned about the kids having consistency. Sorry for the mix up, but the HC isn't new. He's been the HC for 7 years. Only the new OC is brand new to the school. I'm dropping this topic. I know what I am going to do. I'm going to support the HC whatever he wants.
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coachgeorge51
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Post by coachgeorge51 on Feb 18, 2009 7:42:14 GMT -6
Good choice...............maybe he is looking for who he can count on and your support will only lead to bigger and better things down the road. Don't burn your bridges - maybe you are the person he is looking for to step up and support him.
Tell him you will coach where ever he wants and you are willing to do anything for the program and the kids - who can argue with that - take the high road with character.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Feb 18, 2009 9:18:26 GMT -6
I would support the new OC too, hes the head coaches guy, support him or he will be glad to see you off.
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Post by 63razor on Feb 18, 2009 13:49:34 GMT -6
tribe30 gave some sound advice althought he was just relating his personal experience...this a great business we are in isn't it?
There is always an opportunity for growth when something new comes along. If our ego gets in the way of the opportunity we'll miss it. Remember that Rome wasn't built in a day, a year, or even 10 years. I just hope their isn't a rotten apple in that bunch that is stirring things up. Bill Parcells says you have got to cut that guy out or it will tear down all the good you are doing.
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Post by bluecrazy on Feb 19, 2009 8:45:45 GMT -6
You bring in a dead guy and bump me down I figure I better get out of the program! ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png)
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Post by coachcb on Feb 19, 2009 9:53:08 GMT -6
Before I begin this post, let me emphasize that I'm an assistant, not an HC. So, my opinion comes from my experience as an assistant.
If he is bringining in "one of his guys" there is a reason for it and it probably has nothing to do with offensive production. Even money says he felt like he needed to bring someone in he knows, someone he may trust more than the rest of the staff. The staff may have done something to cause this and they may not have; it's never easy to take on a school when you can't bring anyone with you.
I agree that he needed to talk to the staff about this before making the move, but there really isn't anything that you can do about the situation right now. Confronting him about it is going to exacerbate the situation and cause problems. You have to remember, the administration put their stamp of approval on the guy; they are probably going to take his side. Although what he's done isn't fair with respect to the staff, it's still within his rights as a HC to bring in assistants and make changes to his staff. If all of the assistants quit over this, don't assume the administration will take your side. They'll be in a tough spot, but they can't can a HC for doing something within his job responsibilities.
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Post by jwsmuskie on Feb 20, 2009 10:32:25 GMT -6
How would you all handle this situation? We were a staff who was in its first year working all together. Our head coach had been out of coaching completely for nearly 15 years. Everyone else had been recently involved in football, either as collegiate players or high school coaches with fairly decent success. As a staff, we would develop a game plan and sell it to our players. This plan would include plays, techniques and a philosophy that we believed would work during a particular week. The HC would wait until we came together in team, and would undermine what we had implemented through individual and group sessions of practice. He would criticize the teachings of our staff and attempt to put into place his own (useless) additions to the gameplan. The players would then begin to question what we had taught them and what he was preaching to them. Needless to say, at the end of the season, the record was not great. And as it turned out, every single assistant left the program voluntarily. Shortly after that, the HC was relieved of his position.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Feb 20, 2009 10:54:30 GMT -6
I would think your record would not be great if you are teaching new stuff every week. I think you need to do what you do from the start of the season to the finish...that HC must have been nuts to let you all have the players alone if you are teachin stuff he doesnt want taught? ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) the fact that you bring up the hc being out of coaching for 15 years SOUNDS LIKE you dont believe in him or his vision of things??? sounds like a serious leadership problem. sounds like it resolved itself too.
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Post by gdoggwr on Feb 20, 2009 10:54:40 GMT -6
How would you all handle this situation? We were a staff who was in its first year working all together. Our head coach had been out of coaching completely for nearly 15 years. Everyone else had been recently involved in football, either as collegiate players or high school coaches with fairly decent success. As a staff, we would develop a game plan and sell it to our players. This plan would include plays, techniques and a philosophy that we believed would work during a particular week. The HC would wait until we came together in team, and would undermine what we had implemented through individual and group sessions of practice. He would criticize the teachings of our staff and attempt to put into place his own (useless) additions to the gameplan. The players would then begin to question what we had taught them and what he was preaching to them. Needless to say, at the end of the season, the record was not great. And as it turned out, every single assistant left the program voluntarily. Shortly after that, the HC was relieved of his position. sounds like the situation was handled the only way it could be. For the record, I'm an assistant, not an HC, and I agree completely with the "head coach is the boss" statements. I've had situations where i've thought "I wouldn't do it that way," but that is not my call, it is the head man's call. If you don't agree with a decision, talk with the coach, etc, and then decide if you can live with and support the decision with the players. If you can, great, if you can't, leave. No matter how great the job was before, if you get to the point that you can't support your HC then it won't be a great job anymore.
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Post by coachorr on Feb 20, 2009 21:30:04 GMT -6
This is what I would do: I would schedule a meeting with the HC (not talk to anyone else about my opinion) and lay it out there with him one on one. Tell him how you feel about it and ask him specifically what your role will be and what the expectations will be. If he blows off your feelings and is unclear about your role or if you don't feel satisfied by his answer, then it will be time to move on.
I like one poster's response, give it a year and see. And during that year, do your best to be loyal and keep your lips sealed when out of the presence of the HC.
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Post by coachden on Feb 21, 2009 3:13:06 GMT -6
Well to update this situation, the HC met with each assistant individually to discuss the major changes and to speak freely. The HC said he is making these changes cause he thinks its the best for the program and for the move to 4A. I can agree with that....he is the HC.
Regarding assistants' roles next year, he doesn't want to emphasize everyone's titles. He wants to emphasize teaching. Can't blame him for that.
To make a long story short, he hasn't finalized everyone's roles yet. But I am excited for the changes, and I will give it a year.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Feb 22, 2009 5:06:01 GMT -6
Sounds like the HC did the right thing. I like to deemphasize titles as well.
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Post by John Knight on Feb 23, 2009 8:35:25 GMT -6
I ended up setting out 3 years because a new HC came in and brought in a guy to be the OC that had no varsity experience at all. They are both gone now.
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Post by coachden on Mar 5, 2009 3:13:07 GMT -6
To update you on this and to get some more advice......
The whole staff is being restructured and I feel like I am being disrespected. Let me know if I am wrong. As i stated previously, I was JV Head Coach and Varsity O-Line last year. Next year, I will be a JV assistant on DL and OL.
I asked the main HC if I did anything wrong to make this "demotion" happen. He said no. Basically, he restructured the staff to his liking to fit the strengths of each coach. Now I don't coach for the title, but I am more motivated when it comes to responsibility.
What do you think? Time to move on or swallow my pride?
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Post by touchdownmaker on Mar 5, 2009 4:19:36 GMT -6
I went through something like this. I have no doubt in my own mind that as unhappy as you seem (if Im able to read tone in a post?) you might be better off with a fresh start. No matter how a coach puts a spin on it, to me if you are no longer a hc of the jv and no longer working with the varsity oline YOU GOT DEMOTED. In my own exaple, I refused a demotion and I moved on and a couple of seasons later landed a varsity HC position - Id never have gotten it had I stayed there.
Lets review my rules for success:
1) never work for someone you cant respect 2) never work with someone you cant respect 3) never work where you cant earn respect
It looks to me based on your comments that perhaps you would break all three rules if you stayed?
Do you have something else to turn to or are you better of just keeping your mouth shut and continuing to coach right where you are?
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