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Post by bigdog2003 on Jan 14, 2009 17:19:30 GMT -6
What are the pros and cons of each. I have talked to a lot of public school coaches but not many private. Since I will be graduating in December of 2010 if everything works out, I am beginning to look at opportunities and looking for possible job openings.
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Post by coachweav88 on Jan 15, 2009 9:21:08 GMT -6
I've coached in both private and public high schools. Here are some of my thoughts about MY experiences. These are probably unique to the schools I've coached in, but I'll share them anyway.
One of the biggest things I've enjoyed about coaching in a private school is the ability to be extremely open with my faith. I coach at a Christian school and I lead team devotions and prayer before practice. I never had a problem with the public school I coached at in regards to my faith. In fact, they were awesome about it. For instance, they allowed me to do a team chapel after school on Fridays, but it was not mandatory. The private school just has less hoops to jump through as far as sharing my faith.
One negative thing about coaching at this private school is the level of parent involvement. It's too much. I've heard one person describe it as "helicopter parents," always hovering over their kids. We had some really stupid parent complaints this year that I've never heard of at the public schools I coached at. One kid's parents met with the AD for 2 hours because their son was "discouraged." We had a father complain because nobody talked to his "injured" (kid was always down with something) son while he was sitting on the bench in the middle of a game. Many of our kids seem spoiled as well. Mommy and Daddy give them everything, so they don't think they have to work for anything.
That said, I've enjoyed all the places I've coached at both public and private. while I enjoy being open with my faith, I could also do without the overprotective parents.
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Post by jgordon1 on Jan 15, 2009 9:41:54 GMT -6
One of the problems that I have heard about coaching at a private hs if you are teacher is that generally the retirement benefits aren't very good. I knew a guy coached at a Catholic school for like 25 years... very successful.. had to quit and got into a public school just so he could retire
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Post by phantom on Jan 15, 2009 9:58:37 GMT -6
One of the problems that I have heard about coaching at a private hs if you are teacher is that generally the retirement benefits aren't very good. I knew a guy coached at a Catholic school for like 25 years... very successful.. had to quit and got into a public school just so he could retire That seems to be correct. I'm retired after thirty years of teaching in public schools. I've recently run into a couple of college friends who graduated before me but are still teaching because they can't retire.
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Post by jgordon1 on Jan 15, 2009 10:12:59 GMT -6
One of the problems that I have heard about coaching at a private hs if you are teacher is that generally the retirement benefits aren't very good. I knew a guy coached at a Catholic school for like 25 years... very successful.. had to quit and got into a public school just so he could retire That seems to be correct. I'm retired after thirty years of teaching in public schools. I've recently run into a couple of college friends who graduated before me but are still teaching because they can't retire. Must be nice.
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Post by phantom on Jan 15, 2009 10:25:50 GMT -6
That seems to be correct. I'm retired after thirty years of teaching in public schools. I've recently run into a couple of college friends who graduated before me but are still teaching because they can't retire. Must be nice. It is.
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Post by bigdog2003 on Jan 15, 2009 15:11:35 GMT -6
One of the problems that I have heard about coaching at a private hs if you are teacher is that generally the retirement benefits aren't very good. I knew a guy coached at a Catholic school for like 25 years... very successful.. had to quit and got into a public school just so he could retire That's a good point, hadn't looked at that side of it yet. I should because I have been doing the 401K thing since I started work at 15.
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Post by coachdawhip on Jan 15, 2009 17:18:09 GMT -6
Private schools are great to coach at. Public schools it's about the right school and their commitment to sports.
One benefit is retirement and pay for public
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Post by bigdog2003 on Jan 15, 2009 19:31:21 GMT -6
Do a lot of private schools do the recruiting thing?
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Post by touchdowng on Jan 15, 2009 19:36:00 GMT -6
In our state (WA) they recruit. At least the ones in our area do. It seems to be getting more prevalent.
We have a joke about one of the privates schools that does real well in FB.
They may be Catholic but it seems like it's usually a Baptist packing the ball.
Our private schools do real well in our area.
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Post by fatkicker on Jan 16, 2009 8:53:07 GMT -6
my experience has been that the quality of athletes doesn't compare...
the public school game is much more physical and much faster....
watching a priviate school game in person is like watching a game on tv with the sound cut all the way down......don't hear much "hittin".........
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coachbronk
Sophomore Member
[F4:@coachbronk]
Posts: 249
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Post by coachbronk on Jan 16, 2009 13:14:13 GMT -6
Do a lot of private schools do the recruiting thing? I would say that private schools recruit just as much as public schools do. Private schools can recruit kids, they aren't suppose to offer special benefits, such as parents jobs, paying for tuition, etc. I have worked at both levels and the only real difference is pay. We don't have a state retirement plan to invest in, but the way things are going now, I'd rather control that anyway. If you are in a private school, just get with a investment professional who can get you into a 403(b) plan or something.
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Post by schultbear74 on Jan 16, 2009 13:17:56 GMT -6
I spent 6 years in Catholic Schools. I loved 5 of those years. The alumni were the ones who recruited shamelessly. Got us into trouble with the state. Public Schools are getting just as bad IMHO
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Post by bigdog2003 on Jan 16, 2009 14:13:47 GMT -6
What about the students, is there a big difference in problems in the classroom and commitment to the program?
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Post by coachdawhip on Jan 16, 2009 14:38:37 GMT -6
my experience has been that the quality of athletes doesn't compare... the public school game is much more physical and much faster.... watching a priviate school game in person is like watching a game on tv with the sound cut all the way down......don't hear much "hittin"......... It depends on the state, in GA the private schools usually have the better teams because they are in the league with the public schools.
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Post by phantom on Jan 16, 2009 15:03:05 GMT -6
my experience has been that the quality of athletes doesn't compare... the public school game is much more physical and much faster.... watching a priviate school game in person is like watching a game on tv with the sound cut all the way down......don't hear much "hittin"......... The quality of private school football varies tremendously from state to state to state, even within a state. In our area private school football is far below the quality of that of public schools. There are some private schools in other parts of the state where there are one or two good private school teams but most are sub-par. I should mention that in our state-VA- private and public schools are completely separate belonging to separate associations. I've coached in Virginia for thirty years and have never played a private school. In some states things are very different. Many of those states's perrenniel powers are private schools.
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sin86
Sophomore Member
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Post by sin86 on Jan 16, 2009 22:36:45 GMT -6
In TN some privates that do not offer aid are in the same division as publics but have a 1.8 multiplier while the schools that offer aid are in a seperate division. For the most part privates in Division 1 classes 1A, 2A, and 3A tend to be powerhouses. For the most part they play small rural schools. The rural schools only have the players zoned for their district where as the privates often draw the best kids from their district then beat them with their best former youth and middle school players.
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Post by coachinghopeful on Jan 17, 2009 4:15:04 GMT -6
What are the pros and cons of each. I have talked to a lot of public school coaches but not many private. Since I will be graduating in December of 2010 if everything works out, I am beginning to look at opportunities and looking for possible job openings. The big advantage to public school is pay and benefits. Disadvantages can be apathy everywhere, shoestring budgets, bureaucratic BS, more politics to deal with ("How dare you not hire my cousin Joe to be your OC--he was All State in HS here and always scores 100 a game on Madden '09!"), etc. Private schools typically offer a better environment to teach, with more flexibility, better behaved students, etc, but as others have said, you get more overprotective parents and the pay's usually not so great. At our local private schools (none of which even have football), the student body is a mix of very conservative kids from highly religious backgrounds, well-to-do kids who've been spoiled their whole lives, and problem kids who've been kicked out of all the public schools. Teachers there make around $18k a year and the local public schools typically outperform them academically, as well. These are all just generalizations though. You need to look at the public and private schools in your area and see how they stack up relative to one another. Around here, the major difference isn't public vs private, it's city vs. county. City schools are better funded, pay better, have better test scores, better parental involvement, etc. Just an all around higher standard, really. County schools are just the opposite. Some of them send almost as many kids to the maternity ward as college. A few of them start teachers out at less than $20k a year. Locally, the assistant coaches at the city schools often make about $10K+ more than the head coaches at county schools just a few miles away. The city schools frequently (and illegally) recruit the best athletes from those county schools and then beat them with the best from their own feeder systems. Most promising coaches and teachers get their start in the counties, then do everything they can to move into a city school job after a couple of years. If you get a HC job there, you're looking at $50K+, good facilities and athletes, and an easy 4-5 wins or so every year vs $34K or so and clawing for everything you can get on a shoestring budget in the counties. Actually, as a starting teacher, your options will still be open even after you take your first job. If you like the way the private schools look and think you can make it on what they're offering you, go ahead and sign on. I've heard teachers at the better private schools in other parts of the country rave about how much they love working there despite the pay. If you get there and you see that you're just not going to be able to make it on the private school salary package, then you'll have some experience that'll help you move into a public school job within a few years.
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Post by towtheline on Jan 18, 2009 11:01:18 GMT -6
I went to a private school and can tell you that my coach never had any parents of administrators trying to get in his way but I guess everyone has different experiences. They are usually better behaved and you don't have to worry about grades or lack of respect. Some bad things are that they do party a lot (not really different from any other school) and they have been spoon fed everything for their entire life and at the beginning it is hard to get them out of their comfort zone.
Also, the recruiting this is complete BS. I played for three state titles and the fastest guy on any of those 3 teams ran a 4.7. It's about commitment and using the weight room and off season to your advantage, not recruiting.
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Post by phantom on Jan 18, 2009 11:04:23 GMT -6
I went to a private school and can tell you that my coach never had any parents of administrators trying to get in his way but I guess everyone has different experiences. The are usually better behaved and you don't have to worry about grades or lack of respect. Some bad things are that they do party a lot (not really different from any other school) and they have been spoon fed everything for their entire life and at the beginning it is hard to get them out of their comfort zone. Also, if you are a person that believes that private schools recruit then you are an ignorant fool. That's too harsh. They may not recruit there and they don't recruit here (for football. I may have a different answer if I coached basketball or baseball). They do in some places, though.
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Post by towtheline on Jan 18, 2009 11:08:29 GMT -6
I went to a private school and can tell you that my coach never had any parents of administrators trying to get in his way but I guess everyone has different experiences. The are usually better behaved and you don't have to worry about grades or lack of respect. Some bad things are that they do party a lot (not really different from any other school) and they have been spoon fed everything for their entire life and at the beginning it is hard to get them out of their comfort zone. Also, if you are a person that believes that private schools recruit then you are an ignorant fool. That's too harsh. They may not recruit there and they don't recruit here (for football. I may have a different answer if I coached basketball or baseball). They do in some places, though. Yeah I just reread what I wrote and decided I should rephrase it. Sorry, just kind of venting because it is such a common excuse when we beat teams with 3 or 4 D1 athletes 62-0. I mean seriously we had 25 shutouts over that stretch using guys that can't even run that well and it just pisses me off that people can just say that and everyone believes them. The biggest proof of the off season work and the weight room are both equalizers is when we beat the millwood falcons in 2006 and they had 12 guys sign with D1 schools. Heck, one started as a freshman receiver in the SEC.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 18, 2009 11:29:33 GMT -6
I think this is just such a wide ranging topic to really discuss. I believe Louisiana has a larger percentage of private schools than any other state. Here we have some private athletic powers ( John Curtis Christian, Evangel Christian), and we have some private schools that struggle to field teams each year (schools that dress out 18 kids). I believe this is the case everywhere...in some places the privates REALLY work at it, and are able to take advantage of the positives already mentioned, and at others, the negatives are at play.
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Post by fbdoc on Jan 18, 2009 16:11:12 GMT -6
I've spent 29 years in teaching and coaching - 7 at college, 10 in public, and 12 in private. Big and Small, Urban, Suburban and rural. You're going to have facility, parent, administrator and talent issues at any school. Finding the right fit for yourself, based on your experience and the opportunities that are presented to you (offers) is the challenge.
As far as "recruiting" and scholarships, there are schools that do and schools that don't. I've been in Florida for 8 years and everyone knows the schools who recruit and scholarship - they are ones that are winning the State Championships is their division.
My personal opinion is that the opportunity for career advancement is greater in a private school. I also think if "all things are equal" you control your own destiny more at a smaller private school compared with a larger public school. Of course there are many, many variables. As far as salary and retirement, the private school I'm at now (as the AD) is paying me the highest salary of my career - considerably higher than the public school salary schedule. Look at the opportunities from ALL possible angles, and then try to make the decision that is best for you.
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Post by bigdog2003 on Jan 18, 2009 17:42:54 GMT -6
This is giving me some great stuff to think about. All of my education professors are telling me not to do the private school thing, but that is because they were public school teachers before becoming professors. I started off thinking that there was no way I wanted to teach private school, but after being in public school classrooms for teaching hours I am seriously thinking about it. I think I am going to try and visit some of the private schools around here to get a better idea of if that could be a possiblity or not.
Thanks for all of the input, it is helping me to see things in a different way.
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Post by phantom on Jan 18, 2009 18:36:54 GMT -6
What sold you, the part where they don't pay much or the part where there's no retirement?
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Post by coachd5085 on Jan 18, 2009 18:49:27 GMT -6
What sold you, the part where they don't pay much or the part where there's no retirement? HAHHA Of course, as FBDOC says above, it does depend on the individual schools. Here in South Louisiana, you are describing most of the parochial schools, or lower tier private schools. Some of the more elite private schools do pay better than public rivals.
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Post by waltflanagansdog on Jan 18, 2009 19:16:51 GMT -6
I have also coached in both. I really liked the Private school I coached at. I didn't have the problems with parents that a lot of the other private schools deal with. Yes, there were a few whose kids could do no wrong, but for the most part they were very cool. Pay was a huge issue. I gained $20K when I left private to go back to public. The private I was at did not place as much emphasis on athletics that we wanted. They got rid of the athletics period while I was there. That made our day longer. In private you are also expected to do a lot more, and not get paid for it. The term "other duties as assigned" at the bottom of the contract wa utilized countless times.
With all that said I wouldn't mind going back to private if the pay was right. I really enjoyed the kids I worked with. We hardly had any discipline issues.
As far as recruiting...the school I was at did not, but I know of a couple schools in the area that do. They'll deny it up and down, but it's pretty obvious they do.
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Post by bigdog2003 on Jan 18, 2009 20:56:25 GMT -6
If you find the right place the pay could be worth it. I think it is just going to take some looking around to find the right place. I am looking at staying in SC for the first few years atleast, and public school pay isn't great here. The school districts I have looked into range from 19,000-25,000 the first year plus stipend for coaching. I am going to look into the pay range for private schools here to see what they are like.
I didn't decide to teach and coach for money. If money was my biggest driving factor I would have went to law school like I was thinking about, had the scores to get in but decided that teaching is what I want to do. If I can find a place that I love teaching and coaching at then the money won't be such a big issue.
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Post by phantom on Jan 19, 2009 11:44:02 GMT -6
That salary figure sounds really low. What school systems are these? Having nothing better to do I've been looking into starting teacher salaries in SC and they seem to be around $35,000. I haven't seen anything in the 19,000-25,000 range that you cite.
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Post by bigdog2003 on Jan 19, 2009 13:09:05 GMT -6
Lower part of the state, but those figures are two years old. Some of the districts are high, Greenville, Spartanburg and others. Some of the ones that I have talked to and that told me they would have openings are in the corridor of shame as it is known, with lower pay, no faclilities for sports and very low incomes for families.
Some of these districts help to offset the low pay by helping pay back loans through a state program since there aren't many teachers that want to teach in them.
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