|
Heroes
Dec 25, 2008 21:56:27 GMT -6
Post by rbush on Dec 25, 2008 21:56:27 GMT -6
We are looking at developing a character education program focused around individuals. The idea is that each week we would work off of one person to teach a trait - Tony Dungy for principles, Martin Luther King Jr. for attitude, Jime Escalante for work ethic (I apologize if the spelling is way off, it's the guy Stand and Deliver is about).
O wise Huey coaches, who would you recommend as role models for the kids? I really want to do a good job with this, so any and all ideas are welcome. Thanks in advance.
|
|
|
Heroes
Dec 25, 2008 22:50:11 GMT -6
Post by coachnicholson on Dec 25, 2008 22:50:11 GMT -6
T. Dungy L. Holtz Fisher DeBerry J. Tressell P. Carroll John Wooden Bear Bryant
|
|
|
Heroes
Dec 25, 2008 22:53:06 GMT -6
Post by Yash on Dec 25, 2008 22:53:06 GMT -6
Pat Tillman for sacrifice
|
|
|
Heroes
Dec 25, 2008 22:54:18 GMT -6
Post by coachnicholson on Dec 25, 2008 22:54:18 GMT -6
B. Walsh Bill Curry V. Lombardi Myron Rolle T. Tebow
|
|
|
Heroes
Dec 26, 2008 6:33:30 GMT -6
Post by veerraid on Dec 26, 2008 6:33:30 GMT -6
All great answers, I might include Ernie Davis of Syracuse fame for character.
|
|
|
Heroes
Dec 26, 2008 11:12:35 GMT -6
Post by coachd5085 on Dec 26, 2008 11:12:35 GMT -6
Myron Rolle--academics/life balance/priorities. Jerry Rice/Walter Payton--work ethic (Neither big time college players, both are in the discussion for greatest NFL player at their positions) Tom Brady/Matt Cassell--believing and trusting in yourself. I agree with the Pat Tillman choice. Priorities and selflessness.
|
|
|
Heroes
Dec 26, 2008 11:33:10 GMT -6
Post by 19delta on Dec 26, 2008 11:33:10 GMT -6
If this is truly "character education", I think there are some choices here that really don't meet the standard:
Lou Holtz's "leadership" resulted in NCAA sanctions against three different schools
Martin Luther King was an adulterer and a plagiarizer
Again, I know that if you dig deep enough, you can find skeletons in just about anyone's closet. But these two guys have an entire graveyard in their closet...IMO, two men who really shouldn't be part of anny kind of "charactor" education.
|
|
|
Heroes
Dec 26, 2008 11:56:32 GMT -6
Post by khalfie on Dec 26, 2008 11:56:32 GMT -6
If this is truly "character education", I think there are some choices here that really don't meet the standard: Lou Holtz's "leadership" resulted in NCAA sanctions against three different schools Martin Luther King was an adulterer and a plagiarizer Again, I know that if you dig deep enough, you can find skeletons in just about anyone's closet. But these two guys have an entire graveyard in their closet...IMO, two men who really shouldn't be part of anny kind of "charactor" education. Huh? What!? I know I just didn't read... what I know I just read? Adultry... Plaigerism? 1. A man and woman's relationship is between that man and woman. If Loretta didn't have a problem with her husbands sexual appetite... who are you to judge? 2. To plaigerize... you have to claim as your own... King was a revolutionary... a martyr during some of the scariest times of existence. Charged with changing the minds of an entire generation... a generation reared in hate? And you have the gaul to call him a plaigerist? Wow... I guess, if that's the worst you got... its not that bad at all! An adulterer... how do you know? Oh yeah... J. Edgar Hoover, the head of the Counter Intelligence Program, had his "hitmen" illegally wire tapping and watching King's every move, as he was labled public enemy #1! You do realize, the modus operanti of the Cointel Pro was to discredit and defame the leaders of the Black liberation movement? So you are believing J. Edgar... and discrediting King? Delta... really... is that what you are telling me?
|
|
|
Heroes
Dec 26, 2008 12:44:36 GMT -6
Post by NC1974 on Dec 26, 2008 12:44:36 GMT -6
rosstraining.com/blog/category/the-blog/inspirational/The above link is to Ross Enamit's blog. He's a fitness/boxing guy but he dedicates part of his blog to inspirational stories. When I feel like I need a boost I go here. it is awesome. My favorites are probably Team Hoyt, Mark Speckman(football coach), and Richard Jensen. I would encourage anyone who needs a little boost to read through all of these.
|
|
|
Heroes
Dec 26, 2008 14:32:25 GMT -6
Post by 19delta on Dec 26, 2008 14:32:25 GMT -6
Huh? What!? I know I just didn't read... what I know I just read? Adultry... Plaigerism? 1. A man and woman's relationship is between that man and woman. If Loretta didn't have a problem with her husbands sexual appetite... who are you to judge? Not if that person is to be held up as a role model for youngsters and a paradigm of good charactor. There's lots of women who don't have a problem with husbands who beat them...should we hold up wife beaters as examples of "good character"? And you meant "Coretta", right, not "Loretta" (unless you were talking about one of the good doctor's many girlfriends)? Hey, don't point the finger at me...it was researchers at Boston University and The Martin Luther King Papers Project that concluded that large parts of King's doctoral dissertation had been taken from other sources without proper citation. So again, if you want to hold up a cheater as an example of good charactor, be my guest! Nice try. While the FBI wiretaps offer PLENTY of evidence of King's infidelities, I prefer to take the word of Ralph Abernathy, a friend and confidant of King, who wrote extensively of the good doctor's proclivity for adultry in And the Walls Came Tumbling Down. Look, King did some great things...not going to argue that. But, he was also a deeply flawed man who had some serious charactor defects.
|
|
|
Heroes
Dec 26, 2008 14:35:54 GMT -6
Post by brophy on Dec 26, 2008 14:35:54 GMT -6
Look, King did some great things...not going to argue that. But, he was also a deeply flawed man who had some serious charactor defects. JFK? Maybe one distinction that can be made (with your kids, or maybe this thread....) is the difference bewtween "hero" and "hero-worship". Depending on where you are coaching, teaching Leadership and principle may not be synonymous with being without fault. There are some great men throughout history who we can learn from who weren't saints. I wouldn't have a problem using Malcom X or Stokely Carmichael to teach character. Sometimes doing the 'right thing' isn't popular. I think the one message to get across is "you may not fit into ____ box, but you CAN make the right decision" (integrity) Here is the one vote for Conrad Dobler
|
|
|
Heroes
Dec 26, 2008 14:47:35 GMT -6
Post by 19delta on Dec 26, 2008 14:47:35 GMT -6
Look, King did some great things...not going to argue that. But, he was also a deeply flawed man who had some serious charactor defects. JFK? Maybe one distinction that can be made (with your kids, or maybe this thread....) is the difference bewtween "hero" and "hero-worship". Depending on where you are coaching, teaching Leadership and principle may not be synonymous with being without fault. There are some great men throughout history who we can learn from who weren't saints. Here is the one vote for Conrad Dobler I think that you first have to define what is meant by "heroic"...what are we talking about here? Are we talking about physical courage (a firefighter runs into a burning building and rescues a child) or are we talking about mental courage (standing up for what is right even though it isn't popular) or are we talking about both? When we discuss these people, do we simply ignore the parts of their charactor that don't "fit" with what we are trying to teach? Or is the concept of heroism too simplistic in the first place?
|
|
|
Heroes
Dec 26, 2008 14:53:00 GMT -6
Post by brophy on Dec 26, 2008 14:53:00 GMT -6
Or is the concept of heroism too simplistic in the first place? heroes = icons icons of charact er / integrity = leadership training perseverence, determination, contributing to the good of your fellow man (self sacrifice). We're all MEN....none of us are without fault. Holding other men to ridiculous and impossible standards = hero worship. If I sell players on Lawrence Taylor's passion for playing the game, doesn't mean I am endorsing cocaine use. (here is a list of players that your kids will have no idea who they are; Chad Henning, Bill Bates, Kurt Warner, Darrell Green, etc)
|
|
|
Heroes
Dec 26, 2008 15:06:28 GMT -6
Post by touchdowng on Dec 26, 2008 15:06:28 GMT -6
Sort of a sidebar on the conversation but within our program we'll talk about the strengths AND weaknesses of high profile athletes. One year we used Jerome Bettis and Terrell Owens as our two examples. We talked about the unbelievable talent of T.O. as compared to the leadership of "The Bus." We continually talked about who brought more to their respective team. This was the year the Steelers won the Super Bowl.
When it came to weaknesses "The Bus" was in the twilight of his career and pretty much a short yardage guy but he embraced his role and still found a way to lead on the field and in the lockerroom. T.O. on the other hand complained about his contract, how few balls were thrown to him, etc. etc. He became more of a distraction than a contributor. He plays with intensity (no argument there) but he doesn't support his team the way The Bus does. "Gentlemen, who would you rather have on our team?" Not Madden '06 but on our team? No question in anybody's mind when we framed it like that. They wanted The Bus.
We didn't throw T.O. under the bus (No pun intended) but we used him as an example of how not to be when building a championship mentality. It was great to hear the kids talking after the Steelers won their Super Bowl and how The Bus deserved his ring.
|
|
|
Heroes
Dec 26, 2008 15:17:05 GMT -6
Post by coachinghopeful on Dec 26, 2008 15:17:05 GMT -6
If this is truly "character education", I think there are some choices here that really don't meet the standard: Lou Holtz's "leadership" resulted in NCAA sanctions against three different schools Martin Luther King was an adulterer and a plagiarizer Again, I know that if you dig deep enough, you can find skeletons in just about anyone's closet. But these two guys have an entire graveyard in their closet...IMO, two men who really shouldn't be part of anny kind of "charactor" education. You're right about finding skeletons in anyone's closet. There has only been one man without sin, and you only buy that if you have a particular set of religious beliefs. Everyone is flawed in some way, and if you demand "perfection" from your role models, you won't have any ('cept Jesus, and again, that's only if you're a Christian). King is a good example for character because of his dedication and sacrifice. Yes, he liked his women and he did cheat as a student in college, but no one is holding up his private and academic life as the examples to follow here. He's a great role model for kids because of his courage, perseverence, steady hand, compassion, and self sacrifice. I believe that giving his life to successfully lead a group of downtrodden people to rise up and non-violently win their rights to equality and the American dream--rights few believed they would ever see within his lifetime--trumps womanizing and what he did in school. Again, he's using people to teach specific character traits here. He's not holding up everything these people ever did in their lives and claiming that because "person X" did "action Y", that makes it ok. It's like showing a kid how to play QB by referring them to tapes of Peyton Manning, or how to play WR by looking at Jerry Rice (who have both been frequently labeled as selfish and whiny). That doesn't mean you're condoning their spoiled "superstar" behavior. You're using them as models to show the kids that this is how their positions should be played and prepared for. There have been some good examples already mentioned. In terms of football, Rice and Payton are excellent models to show how hard work, dedication, and passion are much more important than raw athletic talent. I also sensed an emphasis on finding strong African American role models in rbush's first post. For that reason, I suggest finding a way to work Barak Obama into these lessons if your kids aren't sick to death of hearing about him already. My suggestion of Obama has nothing to do with politics. I just think that the sheer fact that a half-black guy from a modest background with a "scary" name who overcame the longest of odds to become the first black president of the USA makes him a good model for the value of hard work, perseverence, preparation, and social grace. Here's a guy who had nothing handed to him in life, who grew up without a father in a world where his ethnic background made him an outsider even within his own family, who was constantly told his dream of becoming president was silly, and yet, he made it come true. You've gotta respect that regardless of your political beliefs. Plus he's contemporary and the kids can actually see that he's doing this in the modern world. That really hits home with kids who have a hard time relating to anything that happened before they were born. Other political figures you might be able to look to for similar points would be Abraham Lincoln and FDR. Lots of parallels between Lincoln and Obama, actually. If you want to get back to football, I like Jim Brown as well. No, he's certainly no saint in his private life either, but just look at how he played through tons of major injuries throughout his career but never let anyone know about them until after he retired. He was just a man afterall, but during his playing days everyone thought he was Superman because of how he never got hurt, never let any amount of abuse slow him down at all. The man is a perfect example of "mind over body." Another football related example would be Warrick Dunn for charity. Here's a guy who had a very rough upbringing and made millions as a superstar athlete, yet instead of believing he should just enjoy the self-made fruits of his labor, he's given much of his time and fortune to charities to help disadvantaged families get out of poverty. Anyway, these are just some prominent examples that came off the top of my head. The Civil Rights movement is full of great role models. You could sit the kids down and make them watch Glory sometime too. Lots of good lessons in that movie about leadership and believing in yourself. Good luck with the program, coach. This stuff is very important and I hope it gets through to these kids. This is the sort of thing that can really better lives. You definitely have my respect for tackling it.
|
|
|
Heroes
Dec 26, 2008 15:50:23 GMT -6
Post by coachinghopeful on Dec 26, 2008 15:50:23 GMT -6
JFK? Maybe one distinction that can be made (with your kids, or maybe this thread....) is the difference bewtween "hero" and "hero-worship". Depending on where you are coaching, teaching Leadership and principle may not be synonymous with being without fault. There are some great men throughout history who we can learn from who weren't saints. Here is the one vote for Conrad Dobler I think that you first have to define what is meant by "heroic"...what are we talking about here? Are we talking about physical courage (a firefighter runs into a burning building and rescues a child) or are we talking about mental courage (standing up for what is right even though it isn't popular) or are we talking about both? When we discuss these people, do we simply ignore the parts of their charactor that don't "fit" with what we are trying to teach? Or is the concept of heroism too simplistic in the first place? Wow. This is an esoteric discussion for a bunch of football coaches! I love it! I think that people now have this comic book-ish idea of heroism, where it's all about being big and strong and having an obligation to rush in to save the day because no one else is even able to. "With great power comes great responsibility," etc. The problem with that is that it's unrealistic. That's a power fantasy. Nothing more. Kids nowadays need to be reminded of what heroism is in the real world. As you just said, that can mean a lot of different things, but, IMO it all comes down to having the courage to do the right thing and the willpower to do it when it's not easy or popular. If doing the right thing was always obvious or easy, everyone would do it and we wouldn't even need to think about it. Firemen are heroes. Good teachers and parents are heroes. So are people like Malcolm X or Ghandi. They set a standard of character we should all aspire to, and can realistically aspire to. If you teach that you have to be perfect to be a hero, then you're also setting an impossible standard. Would you tell your football team that everyone has to run 4.2 if they want to see the field? Of course not. The problem is that we still have that comic book hero worship mentality going, where we're willing to let a person off the hook for bad things because of their good works. We simplistically figure people must be either "good" or "bad" and treat them accordingly. We should accept that no one's perfect or ever will be, but people need to be held as accountable for their misdeeds as they are for their good ones. I think the answer in teaching what "character" means to kids is to focus on a person's positives and teach that these are why that person is considered great, but to also point out that these are people with flaws just like the rest of us. Their mistakes are still mistakes. Just because a person is celebrated for doing X doesn't mean they are off the hook for doing Y. In that respect, I recommend holding up MLK has a great example for kids in many respects, but also mentioning his problems and how they tarnish his greatness in some ways. Yes, at the end of the day he was still a great man and an inspiration to us all, but he was still just a man like everyone else. That, to me, makes him even more inspiring because he's more real. We always have to be vigilant about our character and dignity, because when it's all said and done that's all we ever really have. Just like in football, when you make a mistake and fall down, the most important thing is to get back up, learn why it happened, and make a point of not repeating that mistake again. I could see using failed or disgraced heroes as an example of teaching this lesson. Bill Clinton was a hero to a lot of people because of his personal story, compassion, and attempts to make their lives better, but he'll be forever remembered as a two-faced lying pervert who failed to realize his biggest dreams. Instead of taking a look at himself, learning, and moving on, he kept repeating his mistakes and only made things worse by being dishonest about them instead of dealing with them like a man should. John Edwards was the same kind of deal. The list of professional athletes and celebrities with stories like this could go on forever. It's ironic, but researchers have found that people who study ethics in college are more likely to steal, apparently because those ethics students are good at justifying the "minor" moral transgressions to themselves because of their supposed overall moral superiority. Kids have to see the pitfalls of being so full of hubris that even an otherwise great, honorable life's work is undermined by a few mistakes. You don't get to take breaks from having good character. OK, now I think I've successfully confused myself. Hard to believe, but once upon a time I was a philosophy minor. Maybe I should go dig up some of those books I stole from the library and get back to you all on this character stuff...
|
|
|
Heroes
Dec 26, 2008 16:08:55 GMT -6
Post by dacoachmo on Dec 26, 2008 16:08:55 GMT -6
bottom line, everyone has flaws, so why not focus on their positive traits and not their faults.
|
|
|
Heroes
Dec 26, 2008 16:14:43 GMT -6
Post by kylem56 on Dec 26, 2008 16:14:43 GMT -6
Barry Sanders
Bo Schembechler
|
|
|
Heroes
Dec 26, 2008 16:21:28 GMT -6
Post by cc on Dec 26, 2008 16:21:28 GMT -6
warrick Dunn
|
|
|
Heroes
Dec 26, 2008 16:28:29 GMT -6
Post by mariner42 on Dec 26, 2008 16:28:29 GMT -6
I would argue for embracing a role model as a whole, rather than just trying to accept parts of them. It does us no good to only accept parts of people in our every day life and we can't afford to do so in this respect either.
My father has always been one of my role models, but the truth is the man barely graduated high school, did a lot of drugs, was in rehab months after my birth, drank so much that our relationship disintegrated, and generally made himself an outsider within our own family. But he's also the man who taught me to do things right the first time, to measure twice and cut once, to work hard to better yourself and your living situation, and to work until you break a sweat, and then work some more. For a long time, my father's faults caused me a lot of pain, before I realized that I had to accept them as part of who he was, a flawed, but admirable man.
Saying that everything Dr. King did for this country is null and void because of his personal flaws is foolish. Teach your young men to take the good and the bad about people.
My personal nomination goes for Mark Speckman. Playing ball for him was a privilege and I have the utmost respect for everything about Coach Speck and everything he's accomplished. For those who don't know, Coach Speck was born without hands and not only has had a successful playing career, but is also a very successful coach at D.III Willamette University. Fantastic sense of humor, great motivator, brilliant coach.
|
|
|
Heroes
Dec 26, 2008 16:53:32 GMT -6
Post by chadp56 on Dec 26, 2008 16:53:32 GMT -6
I would argue for embracing a role model as a whole, rather than just trying to accept parts of them. It does us no good to only accept parts of people in our every day life and we can't afford to do so in this respect either. Well said. No human being is without fault. Some of those who have fallen the farthest down, have also risen the highest.
|
|
|
Heroes
Dec 26, 2008 19:43:03 GMT -6
Post by khalfie on Dec 26, 2008 19:43:03 GMT -6
Delta... delta... delta... You cut me deep!
|
|
|
Heroes
Dec 26, 2008 19:51:04 GMT -6
Post by coachorr on Dec 26, 2008 19:51:04 GMT -6
Obama? From the ashes rises the Phoenix. Question, from what are the ashes made?
|
|
|
Heroes
Dec 26, 2008 19:59:59 GMT -6
Post by wingman on Dec 26, 2008 19:59:59 GMT -6
To put any NFL player in the class of Pat Tillman is an absolute joke.
|
|
|
Heroes
Dec 26, 2008 21:29:30 GMT -6
Post by Yash on Dec 26, 2008 21:29:30 GMT -6
I agree with the Warrick Dunn post. Watching the segment about him giving the homes away makes me tear up a bit. Doing it because his mother wanted her own home and was never able to do that. I really liked that and it shined a bright spot on the NFL in the age of Pac Mac's and Plax's.
|
|
|
Heroes
Dec 27, 2008 9:56:29 GMT -6
Post by 19delta on Dec 27, 2008 9:56:29 GMT -6
To put any NFL player in the class of Pat Tillman is an absolute joke. Why? Are you saying that the only way for an NFL player to be considered "heroic" (worthy of being looked up to) is to quit the NFL, join the Army, and then get killed by your own guys?
|
|
|
Heroes
Dec 27, 2008 10:05:35 GMT -6
Post by 19delta on Dec 27, 2008 10:05:35 GMT -6
Delta... delta... delta... You cut me deep! Khal...you know I have nothing but respect for you! I just think that we have to be careful about what brophy talked about...the idea of "hero worship". In the cae of MLK, Ralph Abernathy did not make excuses for King's infidelities...he simply tried to explain why King (and other members of the SLCL, Abernathy included, for that matter) made some of the personal decisions that they did. And I can respect that. I just remember being a kid in high school and learning about "great men"...men like King, Abraham Lincoln, George Washington..etc, etc. The way we learned about these people was essentially the "hero worship" that brophy talked about. We learned that these men were these monumental figures of righteousness who never did anything wrong. That is why it was tough for me later in my life when I found out that these men had a lot of flaws. I wasn't prepared for that. Can we separate the good things that people did from their personal failings? I think that we can. If anything, when we talk about men like King, it makes them more HUMAN when we also discuss their personal failings. In other words, men like King are still able to achieve a measure of greatness despite the fact that they have many of the same flaws as the rest of us.
|
|
|
Heroes
Dec 27, 2008 21:04:10 GMT -6
Post by indian1 on Dec 27, 2008 21:04:10 GMT -6
Woody Hayes.
Yeah I know he punched a player. Still my hero.
Delta,
Lou Holtz still a hero.
Martin Luther King still a hero. Credit where credit is due.
If you want you can tear anyone down. The best men in history have been flawed in lots of ways but that does not mean that they weren't great men.
Besides that if a guy is too squeaky clean I don't trust him. All that means is no one has found him out yet!
|
|
|
Heroes
Dec 27, 2008 21:36:34 GMT -6
Post by coachd5085 on Dec 27, 2008 21:36:34 GMT -6
Woody Hayes. Yeah I know he punched a player. Still my hero. Delta, Lou Holtz still a hero. Why? Especially holtz. Holtz is similar to Saban in that regard. Effective collegiate football coach. Excellent won/loss record. Holtz has the benefit of being an entertaining magician and folksy. Bottom line, after the w/l record, both leave a great deal to be desired when it comes to leaders and molders of men. Both are "you go" guys, and not "we go" guys (a little saying an 20 year NYPD veteran used when comparing the difference between the NYPD and the NYFD. He said he really admired the NYFD more, because their superiors were "we go" guys, who led from the frontlines and in the fire, while NYPD superiors were "you go" guys who sent subordinates into the fray while "leading" from far removed command posts)
|
|
|
Heroes
Dec 28, 2008 3:07:55 GMT -6
Post by dal9000 on Dec 28, 2008 3:07:55 GMT -6
It's ironic, but researchers have found that people who study ethics in college are more likely to steal, apparently because those ethics students are good at justifying the "minor" moral transgressions to themselves because of their supposed overall moral superiority. See, y'know why I'm skeptical of that? Because if you follow that thought out to its logical conclusion, researchers who study ethics are more likely to falsify their data. ;D
|
|