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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2008 21:35:37 GMT -6
how do you guys deal with this? when I played, this was a big no-no...fights, if they broke out, got broken up pretty quickly by my coaches.
couple weeks ago we had a fight break out between a WR and a DB, complaining of holding, and the head coach let it go on - saying that it was the best intensity we've shown all season (we were wrapping up a pretty disappointing season at the time).
i see where he was coming from, and i didnt want to go against the HC in public, but I was ready to run in there and break it up myself because that's what i've always been taught. you dont fight your teammates.
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Post by tog on Dec 14, 2008 22:03:52 GMT -6
if there isn't a fight every once in a while then the intensity at practice isn't where i like it
plus
i would rather they step over that line of intensity into rage during practice than during a game
then use it as a teaching tool to teach them to recognize the difference between intense and rage
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Post by touchdowng on Dec 14, 2008 23:05:04 GMT -6
Glad to see them break out (during intense drills) every now and then but we break them up very quickly. We usually address these at the end of practice with the entire time and explain that if you didn't care, you wouldn't fight or even want to. The important thing is that these skirmishes have to stay on the field.
Sometimes brothers just fight.
So far, no fights in a game.
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Post by k on Dec 14, 2008 23:14:46 GMT -6
If it was my call? I'd blow the whistle. If you didn't stop you'd be gone for the day. Mouth off on your way off the field? You're gone for the week at the very least.
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Post by wonderingcoach on Dec 14, 2008 23:32:21 GMT -6
I agree that I would rather have to hold them back then have to pump them up. I look at it this way, it depends what is said and what is happening. If its two studs or two duds then, I break it up and thats the end of it. If it is a kid who is just a winner and he is just pee o ed that he got hit, then I usually make him run. If its a kid picking on someone, like a starting lineman that keeps hitting a scout team (3rd string) Saftey, downfield for giggles or then I break it up and yell at that kid about teamwork. You have to break up any fight. I don't care about intensity, fights don't mean a kid is bad. However, it must be addressed. It is a teaching moment for teamwork and loyalty. Plus if anything happens in a fight and it gets out that you didn't stop it as fast as you could or you have a habbit of letting it go... you best have a good lawyer. Personally, I just try to make those kids get in the pit in an okie. Let em bash each other fair and square.
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Post by coache67 on Dec 15, 2008 8:22:03 GMT -6
My thoughts on this come from experience:
The teams that occassionally have a fight break out are the ones that won't back down in crucial situations.
The teams that never fight, always end up giving up a fourth and one/goal, thrid and long situations.
IF you're willing to fight, you're usually not going to give up.
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htownoc
Sophomore Member
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Posts: 186
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Post by htownoc on Dec 15, 2008 8:41:28 GMT -6
We never had a fight the entire year until the last week of the season. My starting sophomore QB ran outside during team and got up and threw the ball at my backup sophomore QB. The backup jawed at him for a second and i let it go. I could see it building up over the next few plays and then my backup tackled the starter and they went at it. The other kids were terrified. They wanted it broken up right away but I wanted to let them see that a little fight once in a while can be positive. Once one kid got the upperhand we broke it up- I didn't want either kid thinking that he lost, heck I was glad to see a little life. I have no problem with fights like this- its like a dog pi$$ing on a fire hydrant- the alpha has to mark his territory once in a while. By the way, after that fight we won our only game of the season.
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Post by bearcat4life on Dec 15, 2008 8:52:00 GMT -6
If you are on the right track intensity wise you will have them from time to time.
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htownoc
Sophomore Member
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Post by htownoc on Dec 15, 2008 9:49:29 GMT -6
We tried for four weeks to instigate a fight during two-a-days. The closest we got was a shoving contest between two fat linemen. They mainly rubbed bellies and MFed each other.
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Post by wingtol on Dec 15, 2008 10:03:05 GMT -6
Heck I have been know to tell kids to start a fight during team to get the intensity up.
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Post by coachjd on Dec 15, 2008 10:05:58 GMT -6
I had a big lber from the islands punch me in practice and I thought I was dead. I even had a helmet on!!!!
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Post by airraider on Dec 15, 2008 10:26:49 GMT -6
My HC last year would allow players to call each other out.. You want to take someone's spot.. call him out.. You get into it with him over something.. call him out..
I dont know how much water it actually held.. but by his rules.. if the starting DT wanted to play QB.. he could have called out our 155lb QB and been the starter..
Doubt it would have happened though.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Dec 15, 2008 10:30:08 GMT -6
Anyone who is employed by a school has the responsibility to put a stop to the fight. Period. It is a school event, school grounds, student athletes. You can get yourself fired allowing a fight to go on. One soccer moms letter to the Newspaper or supers office and youre going to be coaching girls volleyball.
That does not mean we do not get kids to that intensity level, we just do not allow them to beat on each other. "save it"
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Post by tog on Dec 15, 2008 10:45:52 GMT -6
Anyone who is employed by a school has the responsibility to put a stop to the fight. Period. It is a school event, school grounds, student athletes. You can get yourself fired allowing a fight to go on. One soccer moms letter to the Newspaper or supers office and youre going to be coaching girls volleyball. That does not mean we do not get kids to that intensity level, we just do not allow them to beat on each other. "save it" Just because a fight every now and then is a good probelm doesn't mean that anyone condones it lasting. We break em up when it needs to be.
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Post by airraider on Dec 15, 2008 10:45:58 GMT -6
Anyone who is employed by a school has the responsibility to put a stop to the fight. Period. It is a school event, school grounds, student athletes. You can get yourself fired allowing a fight to go on. One soccer moms letter to the Newspaper or supers office and youre going to be coaching girls volleyball. That does not mean we do not get kids to that intensity level, we just do not allow them to beat on each other. "save it" I have to disagree in regards to the regular school population.. It happens on my field.. then yes.. I will stop it.. But no where in my job description does it say I have to put myself in harms way if two kids decide to go at it during lunch. Had a good friend of mine get his nosed broke while trying to break up a fight in the halls. I personally do not have enough self control to take a hit from a 17 or 18 year old and not retaliate.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Dec 15, 2008 10:47:29 GMT -6
I think fighting at practice is overrated. I'm not appalled at it when it happens, but I have never and will not condone it.
I think enticing kids to fight or glorifying it shows immaturity and lack of control more than it is a product of intensity- and I know on my team those are things that we don't have time to practice.
You can be uber-intense without being out of control...we really shouldn't condone fighting to solve problems to kids anyway...these youngins are so quick to pull a gun in retaliation over stupid $hit like fighting over girls, shoes, rims, & namecalling... It's in-grained in my kids' culture of poverty- fighting is a means to solve problems. That a law of the jungle, not of society! We need to reinforce the proper values in kids, and condoning fighting is not helping teach that kid how to be a man.
Hell, most of the kids that always want to fight are the ones that don't know how/don't have the balls to let their pads do the talking.
I expect kids to get after each other in drills, but get back to that huddle after the play. They need to practice self-control- if you get suspended for throwing a punch in a game you most likely will have to wait until next season to play again.
As long as it happens from whistle to whistle I'm fine with it...I expect my olinemen to try to pancake b/tch-a$$ dlinemen if they puss out at practice...
Be a D!ck all you want during the play...but leave it between the lines.
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Post by tog on Dec 15, 2008 10:49:41 GMT -6
I think fighting at practice is overrated. I think it shows/breeds immaturity and lack of control more than it is a product of intensity- and I know on my team those are things that we don't have time to practice. You can be uber-intense without being out of control...we really shouldn't condone fighting to solve problems to kids anyway...these youngins are so quick to pull a gun in retaliation over stupid $hit like fighting over girls, shoes, rims, & namecalling... It's in-grained in my kids' culture of poverty- fighting is a means to solve problems. That a law of the jungle, not of society! We need to reinforce the proper values in kids, and condoning fighting is not helping the teach that kid how to be a man. Hell, most of the kids that always want to fight are the ones that don't know how/don't have the balls to let their pads do the talking. I expect kids to get after each other in drills, but get back to that huddle after the play. They need to practice self-control- if you get suspended for throwing a punch in a game you most likely will have to wait until next season to play again. As long as it happens from whistle to whistle I'm fine with it...I expect my olinemen to try to pancake b/tch-a$$ dlinemen if they puss out at practice...even if it takes a second or two after the whistle. Be a D!ck all you want during the play...but leave it between the lines. and this never spills out into a fight? a tussle perhaps?
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Post by tog on Dec 15, 2008 10:51:35 GMT -6
I tell our kids all the time
have you ever been in a fight?
yeah coach
well
play like that, except tone it down just enough to know what your assignment is and to not get out of control
i loved playing as close to a rage as I could get
my opponents did not like it
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Dec 15, 2008 11:01:17 GMT -6
Togger-
I'm with you here-
Tussles- shoving matches, biatching at eachother...FINE
If you throw a punch- you're gone...
Smacking people around on the football field, pancaking, knock downs, hard hits are all within the rules. You do that, just like following the rules in real life, and it's cool.
You lose control - you pay the price...
Fights happen, but I don't go around wishing the kids would do so- they fight...they run till we're tired
If it happens, they'd better learn from it and not let it happen again.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Dec 15, 2008 11:18:56 GMT -6
All I'm not saying that fighting doesn't show intensity (obviously if things escalate to fighting it must be intense) but it also exposes immaturity and lack of control on their part- and these things are not welcome nor condoned.
Perfect example was we had a senior LB who freakin crushed kids this year- he was one of our kids, moved to Ohio for 2 yrs, then moved back as a senior...Big strong nasty mofo.
We stuck him at Mike, and he was nasty- KILLING folks all through the first half of the season. We're 4-1 at the midpoint, and this fool starts getting into tussles in games- if their were some extra-curriculars, he was there.
I warned him about it, saying he needed to exhibit some self-control... "But coach, he grabbed my nuts...punched me...blah blah blah"
"During the play?"
"Yeah"
"Then kick the $hit out of him next play!"
What's this kid do- he folds, gets pushed around for another quarter, then finally throws a punch at the kid, while the other guy's helmet is still on, and gets ejected for 2 games... He did this because he wasn't mentally tough. I think fighting shows that you're physically tough, but restraint shows mental toughness...
We play 2 games without our stud LB and TE because he was an idiot and was "so intense he had to fight people"...we lose both games.
Hell, we had to pull him in the 4th quarter in the last game because he cost us a 15 yarder on a 3rd down that kept their offense on the field! They scored to go up due to that penalty and ultimately lost the game on that play! His "so-called toughness" ultimately led to him watching his last quarter of high school football from the bench and cost his team a game...
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Post by cjamerson on Dec 15, 2008 11:19:04 GMT -6
I've caught myself saying in practice, "Play pi$$ed off!". If kids are playing angry (that's how I want it), then there will be skirmishes every once in a while. When I want everyone to be angry and sulled up...I can't get too upset when a fight does break out. We break them up quickly. I don't advocate fighting, but sometimes it happens. If a person choses to go that route, they will suffer the consequences. Our main reason for breaking up a fight isn't a moral issue...I view it more as a legal issue. If we let Joey and Johnny duke it out and Joey gets his face smashed in...not only is Johnny in trouble, but those in charge will have to pay a price as well. Joey's parents, the administration, and the law will ask, "Why did you allow this?" I don't think, "I wanted to keep our team's intensity up!" ,holds much water in court.
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Post by wingtol on Dec 15, 2008 11:19:21 GMT -6
Maybe people have a different idea of excataly what a fight would constitute during a practice. When talking about it here I am more apt to think to two kids goin at it a bit grabbing shoving pushing maybe falling to the ground. Not throwing roundhouses at each other or ripping helmets off or crap like that. Nothing wrong with some extra curricular contact, but when it gets to the point of serious violence then it's different.
I have also never really understood the whole thought process of punching someone in the head who has a helmet on.....
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Dec 15, 2008 11:34:14 GMT -6
Yep- I'm thinking fighting as in fisticuffs <sp>...actually swinging, trying to rip eachother's head off...
Good point wingtol
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rimkusjm
Sophomore Member
[F4:@coachrimmy]
Posts: 149
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Post by rimkusjm on Dec 15, 2008 12:39:10 GMT -6
It takes a stronger person to have anger and control (channel it) then to act on it with violence. A much needed lesson for kids ages 16-22. That's the beauty of this game - its such a useful vehicle to teach people mental strength and control. Never will I promote fighting but I also understand it can happen. When it does - the whole team is punished and rewarded. When practice gets that intense you need to some how build off it and teach them to control themselves. We would punish the whole team then do live game situations. (i.e.-up-downs then 5 minutes of live goal line situation plays)
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Post by dcoach505 on Dec 15, 2008 13:46:19 GMT -6
Fighting in practice isn't always a bad thing as long as it is taken care of right away and it isn't an every day thing.
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Post by wingtol on Dec 15, 2008 16:28:15 GMT -6
I think you also have to take into account the type of team you have. I have seen teams where if there was a fight in practice it would carry over outside of football and into school or wherever. Sometimes you know the kids can get into it and be done with it on the field. So that would also be something I would look at.
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Post by waltflanagansdog on Dec 15, 2008 19:00:11 GMT -6
On the field it's going to happen. We take care of it right there. Of teammates get in a fight in the hallway or away from the field we remove them from the team.
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Post by PSS on Dec 16, 2008 10:55:00 GMT -6
Anyone who is employed by a school has the responsibility to put a stop to the fight. Period. It is a school event, school grounds, student athletes. You can get yourself fired allowing a fight to go on. One soccer moms letter to the Newspaper or supers office and youre going to be coaching girls volleyball. That does not mean we do not get kids to that intensity level, we just do not allow them to beat on each other. "save it" You know...while technically that may be the case, I think that is a hypersensitive reaction. I don't even break up fights in my classroom or hallway right away and the kids know it. and guess what happens? I don't have fights in my classroom or near my room in the hallway. Kids today aren't kids of the 70's or 80's. Back in the day when we wanted to fight we met after school because we didn't want the fight to be broken up. 99% of the kids today don't want to fight and they fight at school or infront of teachers because of the relative safety with the knowledge that it will be broken up shortly. I have had kids start mouthing off to each other in class and instead of saying "you 2 settle down" I typically come out with "are you 2 going to fight or not? If you're going to fight then fight, if not shut up." Perhaps I'll eventually be fired for that, and if I am, then so be it, the tail ain't waggin this dog. Very much the way I operate. I often catch myself telling my kids in practice to kick his ***! I want my players to play on that fine line between all out physically dominating vs. the "losing it" and going after the player across from them. IMO, there are a lot of pretenders out there but not as many of those that will lay it on the line. Sometimes you have to go to extremes to motivate kids. Also, if a kid does fight in practice, hell, I would never suspend him from a game or a practice. Talk to them about the impact of fighting on the team, yes. Never going to punish someone for being intense, that's what this game is about, being intense and sometimes people get upset at each other. If you have personally played the game you would know what I'm talking about. If you want to coach a sport with no intensity go coach golf or tennis, maybe soccer.
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Post by mitch on Dec 16, 2008 12:25:24 GMT -6
“Football, in its purest form, remains a physical fight. As in any fight, if you don't want to fight, it's impossible to win.”
Bud Wilkinson
He was kinda successful, and not thought of as a "fire and brimstone" guy, but a cerebral coach. I think his words speaks volumes.
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Post by coache67 on Dec 16, 2008 12:37:40 GMT -6
Look, I don't know of any coach that says - "Kick Jimmy in the shin and punch him in the balls to start a fight in practice today" That's just stupid. When kids fight in practice always at the end of the day you give them the old - "Hey, we like the intensity, but as soon as we walk off the field, it's over, and you know what will happen in a game . . ." You know, teachable moments.
We always use the example of brothers fighting - my brother and I used to go at it bad - but if someone messed with my brother, you better believe he was dealing with both of us. The kids know this and buy into it.
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