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Post by airraider on Oct 21, 2008 19:01:50 GMT -6
Well as most of you know I took over a program this year as a first year HC.
I heard all the horror stories and had a general idea of what I was getting into.
Well as we head into week 8 we are sitting at 1-6 with a chance to win 2 out of the last 3.
We are down to 36 kids in the WHOLE program at a 4A school.
I cleaned out the lockers for anyone who was not at practice yesterday and we took up 32 helmets.
So over the span of the last 7 weeks.. 32 kids have quit.
A large portion of these were freshmen or walk on's that thought they wanted to play.. but 5 or 6 of them were kids who have been with us since the spring.
This is an inner city school.. they have never had a weight program.. They have given me an athletic period.. but I only have 18 kids in there..
I have roughly 10 freshmen and will be losing 11 seniors.. So at the end of the season we will be left with 25 in the program..
Had 1 freshman quit yesterday because he didnt get the ball last Friday night.. he started at receiver and corner.. ALL GAME.. as a freshmen on a 4A team.. and he quits because he didnt get the ball..
Now the booster club guys are going behind my back to the principal.. SO these guys are ready to get rid of me when they went 3-7, 0-10, and 2-8 over the last 3 years.
I am the 3rd HC in 3 years..
There is no push by the adminstration to do what it takes to make this program successful.
But on the other hand.. out of those 25 kids.. we have about 6 that are really good ball players..
Do I just say screw it and work the ones who do not have PE before or after school.. and work the 9 or so I will have left in 7th hour and make them the best I can?
Or do I just accept that this is a losing situation.. and let it be someone else's problem?
I have been doing a lot of soul searching and praying about the matter.. Its just that everytime something makes me see the light at the end of the tunnel.. something bad gets in the way of my vision..
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Post by airraider on Oct 21, 2008 19:10:34 GMT -6
A little background on my principal and our relationship..
First day in.. he has meeting with me and makes sure I know that "HE" hired me.. not the booster club.. that I was there because "HE" wanted me there..
And that I was not the best candidate for the job.. but the other guy didnt have his paperwork all together..
He told me that football has no money.. its the school's money.. He spent a $1000 donation from the neighborhood association that was given to us to buy equipment.. to pay our state dues and for coaching membership cards for coaches of other sports.
Made me and my staff attend a faculty meeting at 3:45 on a game day.. we were set to leave the school at 5.. so I had volunteer coaches getting the kids ready to go..
He wrote me up this past week due to an incident where I asked the opposing coach why he was trying to run the score up on us..
Tried to make myself and other head coaches sign a paper that stated we would be personally financially liable if we were fined by our association for eligiblity issues.
After Hurricane Gustav.. we were not able to practice that Monday or Tues.. due to school being out.. we did get together weds evening in the gym.. myself and the other coach got together to attempt to reschule our Thursday night game to Saturday.. everyone was on board.. but he wouldnt let it happen.. stated that the parents would get mad if we changed it.. But come to find out.. he went to his alma mater's football game on saturday.. and I am sure that is why he didnt want to change it..
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Post by coryell2009 on Oct 21, 2008 19:29:57 GMT -6
WOW. I would say tough it out as best as possible. Remember that it is your dream to be a HC and this situation is a eye-opener to me that every job that I submit for may not be the best but to make the best out of it. I really wish you luck man...
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 21, 2008 19:32:55 GMT -6
Lesson to be learned here... Being a header is NOT about getting the opportunity to run your systems. (Not directed at you air, but more a general caveat to all, since MANY people, despite what they say, REALLY want to be a header so they can be the whiteboard wizard)
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Post by airraider on Oct 21, 2008 19:53:06 GMT -6
Lesson to be learned here... Being a header is NOT about getting the opportunity to run your systems. (Not directed at you air, but more a general caveat to all, since MANY people, despite what they say, REALLY want to be a header so they can be the whiteboard wizard) Well the one thing I have learned.. being the header has LITTLE to do with actual football.. If it was just the football I was worrying about.. I could overcome.. its all of the other problems that take away from football.. I find myself looking forward to the end of the season.. and that is just not me.. I feel that in the right situation I could blossom as a head coach.. but this place might just be a career killer.
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Post by ajreaper on Oct 21, 2008 20:16:58 GMT -6
Or a career maker- if you can get things headed in the right direction in spite of the road blocks thrown down in front of you you'll learn plenty and be prepared to do an even better job at the next stop. But you obviously have to evaluate if you are up to the demands of this job mentally and emotionally.
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Post by coachsky on Oct 21, 2008 21:28:38 GMT -6
Wow, your in a pickle.
I would take some time and reflect on this whole situation and really try and do a self assessment.
I only know the situation from what I have read on this board, but here is my take, and please forgive me in advance if this sounds a little harsh:
-You had a problem with another coach and words exchanged after the game that you wish you never said. You were written up for inappropriate conduct.
- You have had a tough time getting kids to buy in to the program. A 50% drop off rate is an indication something is not well.
- You have not been able to build the trust and support of the principal.
- You have not been able to build the trust and support of the boosters.
- You[/b] have kids conducting themselves in embarrassing and unsportsmanlike conduct.
- You are the head coach.
It seems to me that you have to figure out whether it's a bad situation or if you could be part of the problem.
I'm not saying you are a terrible coach or created the situation entirely. Just wondering if there are choices you could have made to create a better outcome.
It seems to me the choice is whether to hang in there and try to do things to fix the situation, or whether it's truly hopeless and time to move on and learn from this situation.
I'm coaching with an OC this year that is a former HC. He is going to help us win our league title and we got a shot to go a few rounds in the post season. He's a great coach, but he's been in a couple of tough goes as a HC. I think he'd be the first to admit that if he had to do it over again he would have done a lot of things differently. He decided to step back in order to move forward again. I think that's a great option in some cases.
Something to think about. Not trying to bust your balls. I've read your posts and your a guy who cares and wants to be a great coach. I apologize if I'm way off base.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2008 22:45:29 GMT -6
Coach, for some reason that seems to be a new trend in HS sports. A friend of mine told me a similar story, losing something like 25 kids total and tey aren't a losing program. I don't know what it is, maybe it's changing times...but it's very unfortunate, I wish you the best
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Post by airraider on Oct 22, 2008 4:49:07 GMT -6
Wow, your in a pickle. I would take some time and reflect on this whole situation and really try and do a self assessment. I only know the situation from what I have read on this board, but here is my take, and please forgive me in advance if this sounds a little harsh: - You had a problem with another coach and words exchanged after the game that you wish you never said. You were written up for inappropriate conduct. - You have had a tough time getting kids to buy in to the program. A 50% drop off rate is an indication something is not well. - You have not been able to build the trust and support of the principal. - You have not been able to build the trust and support of the boosters. - You[/b] have kids conducting themselves in embarrassing and unsportsmanlike conduct.
- You are the head coach.
It seems to me that you have to figure out whether it's a bad situation or if you could be part of the problem.
I'm not saying you are a terrible coach or created the situation entirely. Just wondering if there are choices you could have made to create a better outcome.
It seems to me the choice is whether to hang in there and try to do things to fix the situation, or whether it's truly hopeless and time to move on and learn from this situation.
I'm coaching with an OC this year that is a former HC. He is going to help us win our league title and we got a shot to go a few rounds in the post season. He's a great coach, but he's been in a couple of tough goes as a HC. I think he'd be the first to admit that if he had to do it over again he would have done a lot of things differently. He decided to step back in order to move forward again. I think that's a great option in some cases.
Something to think about. Not trying to bust your balls. I've read your posts and your a guy who cares and wants to be a great coach. I apologize if I'm way off base.
Coach there is no doubt there are several things I could have done differently.. but.. at the same time.. the reason this post has come up.. I have been questioning myself for the last several weeks.. and I am finally stepping back and looking at the big picture.. 1 winning season in 10 years.. 3 HC's in 3 years.. The last HC quit the night of game 10.. did not even return to school the next Monday.. Quit teaching.. everything.. 0 peices of good solid weight equipment in the weightroom. Lots of old fitness center hand me downs.. Had 1 home game this season where we came out with $190 after paying officials. Have roughly $5000 in the account after playing 5 home games and not purchasing ANYTHING other than pregame meals. These kids view football as something they do for fun.. if its too hard they dont view it as fun anymore and they quit. If they are not starting they do not view it as fun.. and they quit.. Hard to recruit kids out and get a solid commitment from them.. because if it gets too hard.. their original reason for not coming out comes back and they quit. I probably have 4 or 5 kids that would do ANYTHING I said they had to do to play this game.. the other's.. would just walk away.. So with that you have to be careful of the way you handle them in certain situations.. I know I am not the only one in this situation.. but I dont think I am good enough to make it work in its current setting.. So either I need to make the situation here change.. or change my situation.
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Fridge
Sophomore Member
Re-Building the Bocholt Rhinos (18+) in Germany for 2024.
Posts: 148
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Post by Fridge on Oct 22, 2008 5:19:16 GMT -6
These kids view football as something they do for fun.. if its too hard they dont view it as fun anymore and they quit. If they are not starting they do not view it as fun.. and they quit.. Hard to recruit kids out and get a solid commitment from them.. because if it gets too hard.. their original reason for not coming out comes back and they quit. I probably have 4 or 5 kids that would do ANYTHING I said they had to do to play this game.. the other's.. would just walk away.. So with that you have to be careful of the way you handle them in certain situations.. Coach, I coach in Germany, where football is played in clubs. This is the situation we face, if everything is good. Because in those cases, I as the Coach have things in my hand. - I have to find a way to motivate all. - I have to find a way to challenge them all. - I have to find a way to get everyone who deserves it on the field. - I have the duty to get rid of all, who don´t want to play football. - I have to get all of my players on MY page. If I don´t succeed, it is MY fault. I´d rather like this situation, than the situation we´re in right now, because the owning club took away our practice field for some reasons my team has nothing to do with. So, I´d LOVE to be in a position, where everything depends on ME, not on some guys outside of my team.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Oct 22, 2008 5:43:00 GMT -6
Air, sometimes things have to get much worse before they can get better. You need a plan and you and your assistants must stick to the plan. Do you have a vision for the program? if so, stay the course and keep your mouth shut. Loose lips sink ships and you are better off keeping all of your program problems "to the family" so that the boosters and principal etc will not micromanage your program.
you did the right thing by cleaning out the "dead wood" and you are better off with those 25 kids who want to play in YOUR program. It will be YOUR program until they buy in totally, then and only then will it be THEIR program. The selfish kid who quit was a cancer and you are better off without him.
Its not about one kid, its not about one year, it has to be about where you want the program to go over time. rome was not built in a day. this is your first year with alot of the left over problems and toxicity from prior staff. do it you way but keep it in the family. my suggestion, tell the kids "its us against the world" and use that to motivation to win the next two games. Your numbers will grow if you remain upbeat and positive. forget kids who arent there, do not talk about them. coach up the ones who are there and celebrate their courage and tenacity.
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Post by olinecoach61 on Oct 22, 2008 5:54:53 GMT -6
Coach your in a rough spot. The first thing I would do is decide if your coming back next year. If your wavering, the kids can see that. If the boosters are rumbling, then the kids are hearing it at home which becomes a vicious cycle of doubt in you and your program. If you decide to continue to rebuild, you must redifine your goals and expectations. If you have 4 or 5 kids who will run through a wall for you, hold them up as leaders to the team. Maybe focus on teambuiding activiies to build camraderie and get rid of some of the selfishness (player who quit because he didn't get a catch). Remeber the kids also know your the 3rd coach in 3 years, you have to convince them that your there for the long haul.
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Post by casec11 on Oct 22, 2008 7:51:22 GMT -6
Airraider,
I have been following all your posts on your situation. It seems to me that the season has not gone as you had planed and you are felling a bit in the dumps about it. You are still in the season and you shouldn’t make any decisions till after it’s over and you can sit back and reflect on what happened with out emotion involved. Remember, you wanted to be a head coach, you knew the situation at the school, you wanted to turn the program around and get it heading in the right direction. I have read many times on this board from coaches who posted about rebuilding that things will get worse before they get better. How coaches lost their whole team and played with the few who stayed… How the weight room had nothing ect…. You said you now have $5000 in the account… if I remember correctly you had nothing when you started. Last year this team scored 98 pts and had 381 scored on them this year so far PF 108 and PA 231… that’s an improvement. You have stated they are much improved from last year, if so then you are headed in the right direction. Form a plan of action. Coach who you got, Get the weight room going before or after school in the off season (be creative if you have no equipment, check craigslist for cheap stuff, and old rusty 50lb weight is still 50lbs.. and paint does wonders), get recruiting, get fundraising….. most importantly get the school, boosters, kids and faculty, on your side… do this by showing them you care and are not going to leave the first chance you get like the coaches before you. Try to get the principle on your side again, don’t sign anything where you would be financially liable but work him or her with kindness, and show them you are serious about turning around the program. Also look at things from where the principal is coming from, he has seen coaches come in and leave the program in shambles. He said: “I hired you” well if he did he wants you to do well, no one who hires someone wants them to fail, it looks bad on them. Like the others said, talk with your coaches…try to bring in more. I know you did not think it was going to be easy… and the grass will always be greener. But look at some of the positives where you are at, you will always get some athletes, especially for your offense, and the program has nowhere to go but up. Also next year you have another chance at the coach who got you written up. You are the HC of a program, what you wanted.
Good luck whatever your choice
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Post by jgordon1 on Oct 22, 2008 8:03:29 GMT -6
If not you, then who?? You have the abilty to turn this program around. if you truly want to be a HC what better opportunity. let me tell you, we are sitting at 7-0, guess what, principal still busting our HC's nuts. parents still complaining about playing time. kids still need help from social services. just a little more fun this year than other years. I guess what i am trying to say is that many of your problems are common in many programs. winning cures (hides) a lot of ills.
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Post by jgordon1 on Oct 22, 2008 8:04:13 GMT -6
Lesson to be learned here... Being a header is NOT about getting the opportunity to run your systems. (Not directed at you air, but more a general caveat to all, since MANY people, despite what they say, REALLY want to be a header so they can be the whiteboard wizard) Coach D, please expand, am interested in your thoughts here
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Post by airraider on Oct 22, 2008 8:11:49 GMT -6
Those are some great posts guys.. and they really give me hope.. I feel we have a good game plan this week.. and the kids are buying in..
We just really need to finish strong and I need to have a good sit down with the returning players and let them know of the battle that is before us..
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Post by fatkicker on Oct 22, 2008 9:10:44 GMT -6
air you mentioned something i learned the hard way.....
being the header isn't about being the one to hold the dry erase marker.......
it's about making sure you have all the tee's on the bus.........getting the trip ticket from the transportation office.........does the 2nd team linebacker have a belt?.........one of the assistants had a flat, he'll be late for practice......
i found very few problems with the x's and o's............
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Post by rideanddecide on Oct 22, 2008 9:25:58 GMT -6
Air-- Ask yourself if you are willing and excited to put in the time this off season to get the ship righted before next spring.
If the answer is no to either WILLING or EXCITED it may be time to look elsewhere.
Heck, you can come back to WI and take my job!
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Post by airraider on Oct 22, 2008 9:50:43 GMT -6
Air-- Ask yourself if you are willing and excited to put in the time this off season to get the ship righted before next spring. If the answer is no to either WILLING or EXCITED it may be time to look elsewhere. Heck, you can come back to WI and take my job! I get VERY excited about the possibilities.. I get very distracted about the probable road blocks.. I am going to just keep my nose to the grind.. and do what I feel is right.. and not back down on what I think is right.. if they push me to the edge.. then I will jump.. but until then.. I will guide this ship..
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Post by touchdownmaker on Oct 22, 2008 9:52:32 GMT -6
One tip, when you visualize the program be sure that it goes well beyond wins and losses on the field.
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Post by coachdbs on Oct 22, 2008 10:17:59 GMT -6
Coach - I am not a HC nor have I ever been one. However, I have coached long enough now to see programs that have struggled despite having some pretty good coaches. It is easy for coaches to get on here and tell you that you need to take a look in the mirror when they have never experienced the exact same circumstances. I have seen average coaches who look like great coaches because of the athletes and the community/administrative support. I have seen very good coaches struggle because they lose athletes to other schools and do not have any community/adminsitrative support.
Finish the season and take a look at what you can change and what you cannot. If you don't like what you see....then I would cut my losses and move on. You may have made a mistake in accepting the position but it does not mean you have to compound it by staying. Just my 2 cents.
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Post by airraider on Oct 22, 2008 11:23:54 GMT -6
I get VERY excited about the possibilities.. I get very distracted about the probable road blocks.. I am going to just keep my nose to the grind.. and do what I feel is right.. and not back down on what I think is right.. if they push me to the edge.. then I will jump.. but until then.. I will guide this ship.. That's the spirit Air...phuk em, do what you think is right and be done with it. They hired YOU not the principal, not the booster's or anyone else to guide that program. Captain your damm ship and sooner or later the guys who mutiny will get washed overboard. No different than in your playing days when the offense fumbled on your own 12 yard line...mental toughness will carry you in this situation just like it did in that situation. You need a DC? She-it...I'll come down there and help you...YOUR PROGRAM...they are either with it or against it...there is no inbetween. haha.. you give me a DC from OHIO.. and we will rock this thing.. lol
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Post by ajreaper on Oct 22, 2008 11:31:22 GMT -6
Coach, for some reason that seems to be a new trend in HS sports. A friend of mine told me a similar story, losing something like 25 kids total and tey aren't a losing program. I don't know what it is, maybe it's changing times...but it's very unfortunate, I wish you the best My theory is life has no reset button like their video game- don't like hao things are going start all over again. They don't have to face adversity or take responsibility for their mistakes or failures in their video game world they just push the reset button. That and not as many parents see quitting as something that is just not acceptable- there's no preasure from them to see things out.
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Post by rideanddecide on Oct 22, 2008 11:33:18 GMT -6
I get VERY excited about the possibilities.. I get very distracted about the probable road blocks.. I am going to just keep my nose to the grind.. and do what I feel is right.. and not back down on what I think is right.. if they push me to the edge.. then I will jump.. but until then.. I will guide this ship.. That's the spirit Air...phuk em, do what you think is right and be done with it. They hired YOU not the principal, not the booster's or anyone else to guide that program. Captain your damm ship and sooner or later the guys who mutiny will get washed overboard. No different than in your playing days when the offense fumbled on your own 12 yard line...mental toughness will carry you in this situation just like it did in that situation. You need a DC? She-it...I'll come down there and help you...YOUR PROGRAM...they are either with it or against it...there is no inbetween. I love reading DCs stuff, but I have another perspective. Captain your damn ship and sooner or later the guys who mutiny will wash overboard... Yes they will, and you have no more kids to field anything but a varsity team or you have to search high and low to find coaches because you don't find a whole lot of coaches in a town of 2,000 people. I see that approach working much better at a large school. At a small school you run into the issue of, "will we even have anough guys to practice 11 on 11?"
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juice10
Sophomore Member
Posts: 200
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Post by juice10 on Oct 22, 2008 13:28:14 GMT -6
Air,
I am going to try to take a different approach.
I may not have all the answers (for that matter any answers) but I have been where you are right now. I became a young head coach with very little experience, and quite frankly wasn't ready for it. But here I am 4 years later, taken a team with 10 wins in 12 years and now we are 8-1 with an opportunity to win a conference championship for the first time in almost 40 years.
My first two years were about as awful as an experience as I have encoutered. Some of it my fault, some of it because that is the way it has been for many, many years before I got here. I had drunk parents chewing my A%% on the sidelines before games, to kids not showing up to practice or games, had athletes starting fights, spitting on a referee's shoe, etc. You get the point. A lot of the "cancers" left the team either by their choice or by my choice.
Now to my point, knowing that I was really inexperienced, but eager for the challenge, I set out to become the best coach I could and turn this program around. It has not been easy, but I stuck to my guns and brought my philosophy with me. I have been ridiculed through the course of my time here more than anyone should be in their entire life, but I made a choice to stay. WHY you may ask? Because, I wanted to be the first person at this school in many, many years that turned a dreadful football program into something special. I wanted to sit back and extend each one of the people who doubted me, my staff, and my philosophy "the international peace sign" after I turned this around. This years happens to be that year, where I can just do that.
It has been a constant struggle everyday. I doubted myself, I doubted whether I made the right move, but I stuck it out. I wanted (maybe a little ego) to be the one (along with my coaches who started with me) to turn this around. Hopefully that made sense, kind of rambled on.
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Post by coachdawhip on Oct 22, 2008 14:05:10 GMT -6
Airraider, me and you are coach at the same school. And me and you have made the same choices and did the same things this year.
While sometimes things have to get worse before they get better. Here is the question I have for you and you have already answered it.
Do you have the support of the principal to make it better? Hire better coaches, time to get it right, etc...
If the principal is against you, you will not be successful. We have 30 kids left and 3 coaches, only had 6 to begin with. But the principal does not support the staff. She is sitting on the fence, because she is hoping to move to our county office and get a raise.
Coach, there is a reason why the school has had that many HC's. Someone will take your place and the following year someone will take theirs.
I love Coach Gordon and he asked if not you then who? The next man, because your life isn't worth hitting your head on the wall every day.
Get your resume and leave. Be patient and wait for the next shot.
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Post by touchdownmaker on Oct 22, 2008 15:00:38 GMT -6
Work through the adversity, stay and be successful DESPITE the principal and boosters.
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Post by coachdawhip on Oct 22, 2008 16:03:11 GMT -6
Work through the adversity, stay and be successful DESPITE the principal and boosters. It's hard to be successful, when your boss is not going to help you by any means. He can't coach the team by his self
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Post by jhanawa on Oct 22, 2008 18:24:57 GMT -6
Air, If you would have just installed the DW from the start you wouldn't have any of these problems.... ;D Programs aren't built in one season, win the little battles first program wise and get some momentum, then it will carry onto the field. No weight room, then improvise. There were strong people long before weights were invented, flip tires, push cars, lift rocks, toss hay bales, carry logs, row boats through the swamp...LOL, wheel barrows, whatever, create mental toughness by overcoming adversity. I've coached at 4 different inner city schools, and its tough. The key is getting kids to buy into ownership in the program. This comes through little steps of trust, but once they "own it", then watch out. Stick it out, develop your core kids, and others will buy in. Its a process, but worth it in the end. As far as the admin, he needs kicked in the nuts. My advice is to keep your books seperate from him so that he doesn't go to Tahiti on your dime....
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Post by dacoordinator on Oct 22, 2008 18:44:18 GMT -6
I'd say stick it in there...sure there are some major road blocks in your way but if yout boosters and principal give you another year, have that sit down with the returning players and let them know you and your staff are going to put them in the best possible position to when and to get them where they need to be..i would also say you have a sit down with everybody that is involved with handling all the major decisions with the school but especially the sports area and see what it is that they in-visioned or in-vision you doing with the football program. After you have done both I say you and your staff sit down re advise a plan for the program and get on it. You sound like you have the determination and desire to do what it takes to be a great head coach. If its your first head job, it is a great learning experience for both the inner aspects of handling a head football coaching job as well as the outer ones. best of luck to you
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