thekid
Freshmen Member
Posts: 58
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Post by thekid on Sept 28, 2008 18:51:06 GMT -6
Just wondering - can anyone tell me what the difference is between naia football and ncaa football? What level would it be comparable to to ncaa levels (d-1, d-2, etc_
shaun
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Post by davecisar on Sept 28, 2008 19:22:59 GMT -6
D V in most leagues.
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Post by amikell on Sept 28, 2008 19:53:41 GMT -6
NAIA is comparable to D2 and D3 in the NCAA
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Post by Yash on Sept 28, 2008 20:25:04 GMT -6
I wouldn't say NAIA is comparable to d2 and d3, there are some NAIA schools that are pretty good and others that are a minor step above high school ball. I guess you can say that about some D3 programs, but in WI here, we have some solid D3 programs. I think there is a pretty wide spread of talent for NAIA. Basically the difference is that NAIA can give scholarships where D3 can't.
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Post by coachjd on Sept 28, 2008 20:46:50 GMT -6
I used to coach at a couple different NAIA schools and they are comparable to Div II and Div III. We were 4-0 vs div II schools and 1-1 vs div III schools.
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Post by oguru on Sept 29, 2008 0:26:19 GMT -6
NAIA schools give athletic scholarship money,and have more control over their players schedules just like d2 schools. D3 schools can't give athletic scholarships and can't leally force a kid to work out during the off season. However I know of one in Wisconsin that does. Basically D3 is amatuer football just like high school. No money just playing for fun. Yes I spent five and a half years at a d3 school in Wisconsin as a student assistant.
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Post by davecisar on Sept 29, 2008 7:04:10 GMT -6
Maybe it varies by area. In Nebraska the Division II kids are definitely a step above the NAIA kids. Several of the DII teams have ex DI players on their squads, play in bigger stadiums, have much better facilities, play before much larger crowds and have a lot more money to work with including scholarship $$ . Weve had a nice little group of DII kids get to the NFL where I can think of just 1 NAIA kid that made it. If they played each other it would be no contest. Last year Chadron State ( DII) handily beat Montana State one week after Montana State beat the Colorado Buffaloes etc. The NAIA teams here get the DII leftovers.
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Post by kboyd on Sept 29, 2008 13:05:50 GMT -6
I played for an NAIA team in North Dakota that was regularly ranked high in the nation and finished in 4th spot in the nation my senior year. We would beat the Div 2 teams that we played usually and I would say that we were definitely Div 2 quality. Lower down the list I'm sure might be more comparable with Div 3 though.
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Post by airman on Sept 29, 2008 15:46:22 GMT -6
there are two levels of NAIA schools. Those who give scholarships and those who do not give scholarhsips.
IT also depends on the league which you play in.
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Post by oguru on Sept 29, 2008 18:39:35 GMT -6
Airman. The majority of NAIA schools give scholarships. I have not heard of one who does not. If you could proived some background information to this actual schools and conferences that do such a thign that would be great. Also at this time their is only one level of NAIA athletics they did away with the division 2 ten years ago. Only the top 16 teams in the NAIA final regualar season poll make the playoffs.
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Post by wingtol on Sept 29, 2008 20:27:10 GMT -6
Depends on where you are too, I would say it's more of a Mid-west thing to have NAIA schools. I can't think of any with in a good distance of PA. So I would take a guess and say it depends on the area, I know there are some pretty darn good D-2 D-3 teams in the area and would have to say round here those schools would be a bit better than most NAIA schools.
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Post by davecisar on Sept 30, 2008 7:01:32 GMT -6
naia.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/042808aaa.htmlNo NAIA players taken in NFL draft On the other hand here are just a few DII guys taken in draft and on NFL teams: answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080804193427AA3SgbVAround here no former NAIA players in NFL OTOH plenty of DII guys Don Bee Bee 10 years Rod Kush 7 yearas Danny Fulton 5 years Chris Bober 8 years Marlon Briscoe (10 years +) Just from UNO this year the following are on NFL Rosters: Ryan Krouse Zac Herold Chris Cooper ( 6 years) Ben Hochstien Several others on practice squads IR etc Danny Woodhead Chadron At same time of the TON of NAIA schools here, zero kids on NFL rosters
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Post by struceri on Sept 30, 2008 7:25:01 GMT -6
there used to be 2 divisions of NAIA schools but since maybe 1997 or so there is only one division. Naia schools offer partial scholarships but not all schools spend as much on scholarships as others. A lot of schools depend on DII or Juco(sometimes DI) transfers to be competitive every year. There is some very good NAIA teams that would be solid DII teams but there are some very bad NAIA that could get beat buy high school teams. The only NAIA guy that comes to my head that is in the NFL is John Kitna. Although his school is now DII.
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Post by cqmiller on Sept 30, 2008 8:33:06 GMT -6
Patrick Crayton of the Cowboys played NAIA at Northwest Oklahoma State... He killed us when we played against him in the playoffs. Ron Dixon from the Giants a few years back who ran a KO for a TD the last time the Giants were in the Super Bowl was also an NAIA guy.
I would say that the NAIA is similar to a D2 or D3 school. My school didn't give full-scholarships, but they could give some. So it was D2 in that aspect, but most of the guys were playing for fun because they love the game, not because they thought they had a chance to play on sundays. Most of the ones who end up in the NAIA and eventually move on, had "clock-issues" at NCAA schools, or didn't pass the NCAA Clearinghouse. We had a WR that was at our school for 1 year and left (HATED IT)... He had a full-ride to play WR @ Texas, but couldn't pass the clearinghouse.
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Post by oguru on Sept 30, 2008 17:48:41 GMT -6
1/2 scvhlarships are still better then no scholarships in division three. Also NAIA you can actually have real spring ball.Where d3 they were just allowed to use a ball three years ago.
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Post by airman on Sept 30, 2008 18:53:45 GMT -6
I bet the top naia schools would not be able to compete in the top D3 confrences. Whitewater, mount union, st. Johns, La Crosse, eau claire, bethel and others would destroy the top NAIA teams even though they give scholarships.
THe WIAC used to beat the NSIC up and down in the WIAC/NSIC challenge and the NSIC is a scholarship confrence.
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Post by goldenbear76 on Sept 30, 2008 19:45:01 GMT -6
I played NAIA under Coachjd, I too was a JC transfer. I would say NAIA is comparable to d2. At least where we played. There are bad teams, there are good teams..like every division. Airman to say something like "the top naia would not compete in the top d3" is just....not true. When I played (only 1 year of course) we use to scrimmage Univ. of North dakota..and though we didn't beat them..we would be competitive with them. Carroll College (mont.), Mary (N.D.), NW Okla St., are perenially good NAIA programs. They would hang with most D2 programs. To say they couldn't compete at d3 is just stupid.
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20x
Junior Member
Posts: 380
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Post by 20x on Sept 30, 2008 22:41:38 GMT -6
I am coaching at a perrenial top 10 NAIA school, I guarentee our top guys would be able to compete at the D2 level. However, I am sure our number 2 guys would probably not do so well against division 2 type players. We have a number of guys who returned home from D1AA schools or D2 schools.
I do agree that some of the bottom schools in our conference are really bad. However, I'd take my chances with the top 5 schools in the NAIA competing against most of D2. I know the top schools would probably destroy us. There is some really good football in NAIA, just not very deep.
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Post by davecisar on Oct 1, 2008 6:42:07 GMT -6
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Post by cqmiller on Oct 1, 2008 9:59:49 GMT -6
I am coaching at a perrenial top 10 NAIA school, I guarentee our top guys would be able to compete at the D2 level. However, I am sure our number 2 guys would probably not do so well against division 2 type players. We have a number of guys who returned home from D1AA schools or D2 schools. I do agree that some of the bottom schools in our conference are really bad. However, I'd take my chances with the top 5 schools in the NAIA competing against most of D2. I know the top schools would probably destroy us. There is some really good football in NAIA, just not very deep. Coach... what school are you at? PM me... I played at a top10 school a few years ago.
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Post by coveyboyz1 on Oct 1, 2008 10:01:58 GMT -6
Dave you kill sometimes with your loyalty to your state. I understand you love the state of Nebraska and everything in it. It just does'nt stand to reason that you use individual achievement to argue that team play is better or worse. If the players coming out of the state of Nebraska so much more talented and deep could you ask Pelini to quit calling HS coaches in FL,TX,CA. The make-up of non or partial scholarship schools are usually local or state based talent. It's a team sport and using the League as a barometer is a terrible joke. The NFL has very little to do with being the most talented ie. Tom Brady in the sixth round.
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Post by cqmiller on Oct 1, 2008 10:05:34 GMT -6
Like I stated above... Many of the kids that end up at NAIA schools had clock issues in the NCAA system. We had a 28 year old QB who played at Wyoming for a year, then his dad died, so he left school to take care of the family business for a few years, then played another year somewhere, had to have his elbow put back together, rehabed for another year, and eventually ended up at an NAIA school because his "clock" had expired as far as the NCAA was concerned. NFL team is going to take a 22 or 23 year old kid from D2 or D3 before a 26 or 27 year old of EQUAL TALENT in the draft...
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Post by Yash on Oct 1, 2008 10:48:52 GMT -6
I think NAIA has a huge variety of talent. some may be comparable to D3 and D2 schools talent wise but there are others that are glorified high school teams. There are some NAIA that have scholarships and then there are others like Mayville North Dakota that have 57 guys on the team. If you show up to practice you are on the team. Now compare that to D3 programs like Mount union 220 guys on the team, WIAC teams in wisconsin get between 150-175 guys at camp every august but have to cut down to 100 guys. I think its too much of a talent difference throughout NAIA to compare them to just one division or what not. The talent varies so much depending on the team, conference, region and what not.
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Post by davecisar on Oct 1, 2008 11:50:47 GMT -6
Dave you kill sometimes with your loyalty to your state. I understand you love the state of Nebraska and everything in it. It just does'nt stand to reason that you use individual achievement to argue that team play is better or worse. If the players coming out of the state of Nebraska so much more talented and deep could you ask Pelini to quit calling HS coaches in FL,TX,CA. The make-up of non or partial scholarship schools are usually local or state based talent. It's a team sport and using the League as a barometer is a terrible joke. The NFL has very little to do with being the most talented ie. Tom Brady in the sixth round. You missed the point entirely , I never mentioned NU at all, the point was NAIA vs DII. There were zero NAIA kids drafted last year from any NAIA in the nation, per the article I quoted. However just a couple of local DII schools have had quite a few NFL players on them, No doubt just the tip of the iceberg for DII kids playing NFL football. As stated previously the NAIA ball around here ( even rated teams) pales in comparison to the DII teams Ive seen. 99% of the NAIA kids around here are the same age as their college peers. I dont think its an old mans league.
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Post by coveyboyz1 on Oct 1, 2008 12:19:29 GMT -6
I think it's just sometimes you come all Tim Taylor "tooltime" not just this post but alot of them. We bought your system for youth football and run it. I've defended you and your methods all year. I was just saying taking something like the amount of players in the NFL from a certain Division of play and making the statement that it makes it inferior based on Individual achievment players in the NFL does not speak to the quality of a team. I played in a AAA Semi-Pro league against Former D-1,Arena 1 and NFL guys and was ALL-League 7 out of 10 Years and fared well against those guys and I was 1/2 semester JUCO player. I would clearly as an individual be an NFL caliber player right? I played on a great team with awesome skill players and a QB who was nationally recognized as the player of the year in minor league football. I did my job very well but the reason I was recognized was because we were an offensive juggernaut. It's a team game and that's it. App St. vs Michigan proves the right players, right system, right attitude and any given saturday.
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Post by davecisar on Oct 1, 2008 13:40:52 GMT -6
Coach, Not sure you can equate adult pay-to-play aka " semi pro" with NFL or NAIA to DII comparisons.
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Post by ampipebulldog on Oct 1, 2008 14:41:05 GMT -6
Derek Ward played at Ottawa, and I think he was with the Giants or Jets.
Patrick Crayton is a stud in Dallas - NW Oklahoma.
Kitna, of course.
I would put the last 5 year teams of Sioux Falls and Carroll College against any D2 school.
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Post by davecisar on Oct 1, 2008 18:00:47 GMT -6
Not many teams are anywhere close to Sioux Falls, even at that, the NFL scouts arent scouting NAIA schools, I went to a DII school, they looked real hard at 5 of our guys and drafted 1 in the 5th round, the others went free agent. Schools at NAIA level around here, 1,000 students , 450 males, 80 on the football team. Contrast that vs DII student population 14,000 male population 6700, guys on the football team: 120. I really doubt a team where the male student population is where 1 in 8 plays football can be consistently very talented. Again, here the top kids go DI, the next level go DII, the kids that just want to dabble play NAIA.
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Post by goldenbear76 on Oct 1, 2008 18:57:16 GMT -6
NFL scouts aren't scouting NAIA? really? hrmm..thats a big blanket statement there. But since you went D2..I can see how that makes you an expert on NAIA. I slept at a Holiday Inn express last night and today i'm performing as the cover band for KISS.
The fact is, NFL scouts will scout every level if someone is worth scouting. Heck in JUCO in California, there was a kid that played WR for Sac City JC and he went straight from JUCO to the Oakland Raiders. If someone is a good enough football player..they'll find them.
The kids that just want to dabble go to crappy NAIA and D3 schools. The kids who are good but lack size, speed, etc go to good NAIA, D3, D2.
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20x
Junior Member
Posts: 380
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Post by 20x on Oct 1, 2008 21:25:39 GMT -6
Dave, I didn't say it was comparable from top to bottom did I? I said the top NAIA schools would compete with most of D2, not the top D2 schools. I know very well how bad some of the Nebraska NAIA schools are. Sioux Falls, Carroll, and Saint Francis, you don't think they'd win some games with D2 schools?
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