MaineManiac
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Post by MaineManiac on Sept 15, 2008 17:13:36 GMT -6
What to do? Granted, the inquiry isn't complete, but firsthand testimony places a number of our starters at a drinking party.
School policy says 20 day suspension from the team. That would mean they would be eligible to play with 3 games left. All three are extremely winable games. Those games will probably determine if we make the play-offs.
All that said, my advice as Associate Head Coach to the HC was to tell them they would never play for our program again. We have told them over and over again not to find themselves in this scenario.
They did...
Am I wrong or is that what you all have done when this scenario arose.
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Post by jgordon1 on Sept 15, 2008 17:21:21 GMT -6
all kids make mistakes. it was a different day and age, but we drank ALL the time in HS. I say go by exactly what the rule book says. they break a rule there is a consequence. lesson learned. can they still practice but not play?
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Post by airman on Sept 15, 2008 17:31:05 GMT -6
does the suspension remove them from the team? we have a rule that you have to practice during missing times for drinking violations. you find out how many really want to play.
I was in high school and we faced our rival in the 3 rd game of the season. we played them and beat them. they invited us to a kegger in the pasture. most of our guys did not go because we were having our own kegger in the our pasture. needless to say they got busted. 25 seniors done for 25% of their season.
I think about it today. had we not had our own kegger we would have been at their kegger and both teams would have been in trouble.
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MaineManiac
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Post by MaineManiac on Sept 15, 2008 17:38:28 GMT -6
I don't buy into the claim that we all did it back in the day. In 8th grade my high school coach threw 7 seniors off the team. At the time we owned the nations longest win streak of 45 games. Guess what, we lost the next week 20-0 in the conference finals. We had beaten the team 34-6 in the regular season.
Our coach embodied the traits we wanted in a leader and more importantly in a man. Never once did I drink during football season, nor did my friends. We knew we had signed up to be held to a higher standard. We knew our last beer in August would have to hold us over until November. And we did it - because we were part of a team.
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MaineManiac
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Post by MaineManiac on Sept 15, 2008 17:39:21 GMT -6
They cannot practice the first two weeks while they attend alcohol counseling. The third week they can return to the field to practice and then play following a week of practice.
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Post by dubber on Sept 15, 2008 18:15:55 GMT -6
does the suspension remove them from the team? we have a rule that you have to practice during missing times for drinking violations. you find out how many really want to play. I was in high school and we faced our rival in the 3 rd game of the season. we played them and beat them. they invited us to a kegger in the pasture. most of our guys did not go because we were having our own kegger in the our pasture. needless to say they got busted. 25 seniors done for 25% of their season. I think about it today. had we not had our own kegger we would have been at their kegger and both teams would have been in trouble. Not exactly one of those after practice pep talks you give your players, huh?  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2008 20:02:43 GMT -6
In our school, it would be a minimum of a three game suspension. It's based on a percentage of the season; a basketball player caught drinking would miss more games, but roughly the same percentage of the season. The players do practice with the team while serving the game suspension. In fact, we don't punish the kid twice--we have someone coming back this week after serving a three game suspension and he will start if he proves worthy.
jgould, in this day and age, I would worry about the legality of kicking the kids off the team and exceeding school policy if that isn't your team's written policy.
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Post by amikell on Sept 15, 2008 20:14:00 GMT -6
per school policy, our kids are removed from the team.
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Post by airraider on Sept 15, 2008 20:37:19 GMT -6
I havent heard of a school having a policy on this. We have policies for things that happen on campus or while on school functions (games), but what you do on your own time is your own business as far as the school is concerned.
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Post by amikell on Sept 15, 2008 20:43:32 GMT -6
I havent heard of a school having a policy on this. We have policies for things that happen on campus or while on school functions (games), but what you do on your own time is your own business as far as the school is concerned. even if the law steps in? |
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Post by coachbdud on Sept 15, 2008 20:46:09 GMT -6
just about every high school goes to a drinking party at least once a year. I know it isnt right but it is reality. Even the rich private school kids are offenders. I know no one on this board could tell me that no member of their team has gone to a party with alcohol.
If you see them it is one thing, but you cant punish them for rumors
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MaineManiac
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Post by MaineManiac on Sept 15, 2008 20:50:09 GMT -6
No, but when they take videos on their cell phones of it you can.
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Post by coachorr on Sept 16, 2008 0:55:31 GMT -6
I don't know why there is a question. Follow the policy and coach the kids you have. Alcoholism is more serious than losing a football game. Kids who drink in their teens are something like 5 times more likely to become alcoholics and/or have trouble with the law due alchohol related incidents.
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MaineManiac
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Post by MaineManiac on Sept 16, 2008 2:48:24 GMT -6
I agree completely CoachOrr. Coach the kids you have. My issue is what do you do in three weeks when they're eligible to come back.
I have a real issue inserting them back into the lineup in place of, A)kids who did the right thing B) Kids who have been working their tales off for the past three week.
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MaineManiac
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Post by MaineManiac on Sept 16, 2008 2:50:50 GMT -6
I guess I don't feel winning football games is more important than instilling a lesson that those that do the right thing and that work hard will reap the reward.
Am I wrong for not putting my most talented team on the field?
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Post by lochness on Sept 16, 2008 5:26:28 GMT -6
Follow the rule and speak with the kids 1-on-1 about their mistakes when they come back to the team.
I don't buy into the "everyone does it" thing either. I've only been out for 15 years, and neither myself nor any of my football friends drank during the school year. Too much embarassment to our family and our team if we got caught, not to mention getting thrown off the football team. We never risked it. Ever...
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Post by coachorr on Sept 16, 2008 7:03:48 GMT -6
"inserting them back into the lineup in place of, A)kids who did the right thing"
Man, that is a tough one. Am I wrong to say that when they come back they have to compete for their spots? Sorry to hear about this, it is a tough one.
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Post by airraider on Sept 16, 2008 7:24:30 GMT -6
I havent heard of a school having a policy on this. We have policies for things that happen on campus or while on school functions (games), but what you do on your own time is your own business as far as the school is concerned. even if the law steps in? Yea, the school itself has no policy in dealing with kids outside of school. I mean we are in the worst crime spot in our city.. but even at my old rural schools, neither had that type of policy. Now whether or not the team has a policy is a different story.. but the actual school itself does not. |
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Post by casec11 on Sept 16, 2008 7:45:59 GMT -6
"School policy says 20 day suspension from the team"
Is this for being caught drinking on school grounds? I can't see a school policy punishing kids for something that doesn't relate to the school (unless it is private).
Airraider is right, What are your teams policies for your players drinking? this is what you should follow (if the schools policy is for on campus drinking), and if the team does not have one, one should be put together.
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MaineManiac
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Post by MaineManiac on Sept 16, 2008 8:37:29 GMT -6
We have an athletic code of conduct that they sign and agree to abide by for the whole season. This penalty is in response to that.
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Post by casec11 on Sept 16, 2008 9:21:53 GMT -6
We have an athletic code of conduct that they sign and agree to abide by for the whole season. This penalty is in response to that. There you go, follow the rule set out from the beginning. |
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Sept 16, 2008 9:40:24 GMT -6
Suspend them for that time stated, when they come back they are bottom of the depth chart and must work their way back up.
You have to stick to your guns (the policy)- if you make exceptions just to win games your credibility goes down the crapper and you "sell your soul" so to speak
Kids make mistakes, they shouldn't serve a lifetime sentance for something like this...any repeat offenses should result in suspension for remainder of season.
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sbv
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Post by sbv on Sept 16, 2008 9:51:49 GMT -6
Our school is a 365 day suspension from athletics if you get caught with possession or consumption of alcohol or drugs. The reason they are allowed to do this even though it does not happen at school is all participants sign a drug/alcohol form that states the suspension if caught, before their respective season. Also, extra curricular activities are just that, extra. They are not a right, they are a privilege.
As far as the case in question, I agree that you need to follow school policy. Does it mean that you won't be disappointed in them, no. What it means is that you have a rule and you follow it. One of my rules is if you miss a practice, you don't get to start in the game that week. If I have this happen, I don't carry it into the following week. On the other hand, you shouldn't hand starting jobs to those who return, especially if they can't practice for two weeks. I would put them at the bottom of the depth chart and if they can work their way back up to a starting spot after two weeks of practice before their first game back, then so be it. As for those players who now have the opportunity to become varsity starters, if they play well it becomes their spot to lose.
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Post by jgordon1 on Sept 16, 2008 10:30:57 GMT -6
I am not saying what we did was right. My main point is if you have a procedure in place, follow it. Kids pay the price so does the team. My question is, Do you still hold a grudge after the kids return? Here is a question we wrestled with at my old school. What would happen if a kid got caught drinking the night before the last game?? Ok he gets suspended from the team for ONE day. Is this fair? should the penalty carry over into basketball season? What if one kid plays BB and the other didn't?? Okay, a member of the BAND gets caught drinking (probably smoking  . does he face the same penalty if not why not. they represent the school every bit as much as an athlete. i could go on. probably should be a new thread |
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MaineManiac
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Post by MaineManiac on Sept 16, 2008 16:45:53 GMT -6
I agree completely - follow the policy. We suspended them today for 20 days. That will equate to 4 of our remaining 6 games.
When all the details came out it ended up being 2 sophomore starters and 3 junior starters. I know next season is a fresh start for them, but I already wonder how I will trust them.
I love the suggestion of putting them at the bottom of the depth chart and allow them to work their way back up. This doesn't punish the kids who worked their tail off while they were suspended (and did the right thing).
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Post by coachcb on Sept 16, 2008 21:10:46 GMT -6
I am not saying what we did was right. My main point is if you have a procedure in place, follow it. Kids pay the price so does the team. My question is, Do you still hold a grudge after the kids return? Here is a question we wrestled with at my old school. What would happen if a kid got caught drinking the night before the last game?? Ok he gets suspended from the team for ONE day. Is this fair? should the penalty carry over into basketball season? What if one kid plays BB and the other didn't?? Okay, a member of the BAND gets caught drinking (probably smoking . does he face the same penalty if not why not. they represent the school every bit as much as an athlete. i could go on. probably should be a new thread \ Around here, the penalty would stick with them into basketball season. We don't mark it off by days, but by weeks; I believe your first drug/tobacco/alcohol offense gets you 4 game-weeks of SPORT suspension. You have to practice, but cannot play. The reason is is game weeks is because of sports that have multiple events during a week. For example, if we went by events, then the wrestler that got caught chewing may miss 3 events, but they could have those 3 events in a 10 day span. If they get busted drinking the day before the last game, then they will miss that game (essentially a week) and then 3 game-weeks of the next sport they participated in. If the get caught drinking after a season is over or between season, the punishment carries over into the next sport season; possibly even the next year. You get caught drinking during the last track meet of the year, then you are going to miss the first 3 games of football season. That is our school policy, as a team, we will punish the offenders severely through conditioning. Their first week of punishment, we will run them like dogs after practice is over. I don't buy into the excuses: everyone else stayed away from the booze, you should have too. Everything is about the team and the program; if you're not helping, you're hindering. |
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MaineManiac
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Post by MaineManiac on Sept 17, 2008 3:29:56 GMT -6
Our policy is in school days, not in games so the 20 school days would carry over from season to season.
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Post by tye2021 on Sept 19, 2008 16:54:02 GMT -6
What to do? School policy says 20 day suspension from the team. I beleive I read that this was team policy not the school with that in mind... If this is the policy you set at the beginning of the year this is what you MUST stick to. This is an agreement that you guys put together and agreed to with the players. Anything less than or more than whats stated isn't fair to the kids, you or the program. You wont change the rules for a parent that beleives its to heavy of a penalty. Don't try to change it now that you think its to lenient. If your rules say 20 days for the offense then that should be the extent of the punishment. If you change it now, how do you expect the players to TRUST YOU. Don't compromise yourself. Stick to your policy and rewrite it to include any additional punishments that you think should be imposed based on the offense. I do agree with putting them at the bottom of the depth chart and making them earn the right to play and then maybe start! good luck coach. |
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Post by tye2021 on Sept 19, 2008 16:56:28 GMT -6
Don't compromise yourself. Stick to your policy and rewrite it to include any additional punishments that you think should be imposed based on the offense. Rewrite for next season. |
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Post by oguru on Sept 19, 2008 18:03:09 GMT -6
Make them serve the ahletic coad suspension.f theya re allowed to practice make them run ALOT. Then when the suspension is over have them serve your suspension. no allowed to playu,and make them run A LOT MORE.
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. does he face the same penalty if not why not. they represent the school every bit as much as an athlete. i could go on. probably should be a new thread
