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Post by jgordon1 on Aug 14, 2008 12:13:15 GMT -6
Why is it that we say defense wins championships, yet most HFC's (at least around here) are also the OC. Funny thing is if I ever get a shot, I would seriously think about being the OC too. I just don't know why?
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Post by k on Aug 14, 2008 12:51:17 GMT -6
Why is it that we say defense wins championships, yet most HFC's (at least around here) are also the OC. Funny thing is if I ever get a shot, I would seriously think about being the OC too. I just don't know why? Calling the offense is just more fun! =)
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Post by phantom on Aug 14, 2008 12:55:18 GMT -6
Why is it that we say defense wins championships, yet most HFC's (at least around here) are also the OC. Funny thing is if I ever get a shot, I would seriously think about being the OC too. I just don't know why? Calling the offense is just more fun! =) I can't answer the first question. The HC here is also the OC. I have to dispute that last line, though. As a DC I can tell you that breaking things is a lot of fun.
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Post by levydisciple on Aug 14, 2008 13:39:52 GMT -6
Personally, I've always thought a head coach should delegate responsibility. I mean, that's why he has other coaches on his staff, right?
Though I guess if you're a head coach and looking to call plays on one side of the ball, you should look at your skill sets/knowledge of that side of the ball.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2008 16:21:48 GMT -6
Somebody once asked me this, "if defense wins championships, why were all the repeat superbowl superbowl teams, (except for Pittsburg) known for their offenses" (New England, Dalls, San Fransisco etc...)
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Post by coachbw on Aug 17, 2008 16:34:45 GMT -6
The one thing I liked when I was a HC/OC was that I felt I was able to better control the tempo of the game. Right now I am in my first year as HC/DC and I feel like so far I have had more control of the mentality/attitude of the team. I have always personally thought that being an offensive coordinator makes it easier to market yourself as a HC. Even a school administrator can see the results of a good offensive play.
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Post by seagull73 on Aug 17, 2008 16:45:14 GMT -6
It's just more fun. I was a HC for one year when I did not call the plays. I didn't like it at all. A team has to fit your personality & I'm an offensive guy.
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rosborn
Sophomore Member
Posts: 155
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Post by rosborn on Aug 17, 2008 16:54:57 GMT -6
coachkell,
Agree with your statement... Those were all amazing offensive teams but they all had an OKAY defense too haha. Also, look at Tampa Bay. Hell, Gruden would of been Sh*t out of luck if he didn't have Derrick Brooks, John Lynch, Warren Sapp and the rest of that amazing Tampa 2 defense.
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Post by coachnichols on Aug 17, 2008 17:11:24 GMT -6
There are a lot of instances (IMO) in this area of head coaches who don't have strong staffs. Disregard the teams with staffs that have no quality coaches at all, but how about the head coach who has by far the most ability or knowledge. So, whether he is a defensive guy or not, he decides to run the offense because he can do the best job with it.
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Post by touchdowng on Aug 17, 2008 17:26:11 GMT -6
For me, it's pretty simple:
As a former DC as an assistant and a present OC and HC it's all about a matter of time management.
I easily spent double the time working a D gameplan as opposed to an offensive gameplan.
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Post by jgordon1 on Aug 18, 2008 7:07:12 GMT -6
I agree IMO it is easier to prepare an OFF game plan
Coach BW: good point, never thouight about that. as a DC sometimes I will have the scout team run the same play twice in a row quickly to help us w/ defensive tempo. Yes, I signal in a different second call. it is the same front but a different coverage , stunt or blitz. kids know the play but still must hurry, hurry
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Post by fatkicker on Aug 18, 2008 11:13:42 GMT -6
one thing is for sure when the header is the oc.....
the header will "1 more play" you until the team period goes over the scheduled time by 30 minuties.......
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Post by FlexboneOne on Aug 18, 2008 11:24:25 GMT -6
Somebody once asked me this, "if defense wins championships, why were all the repeat superbowl superbowl teams, (except for Pittsburg) known for their offenses" (New England, Dalls, San Fransisco etc...) Uh, the Steelers were great offensively too. Granted, they had the greatest defense of all time, but don't overlook their offense
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Post by phantom on Aug 18, 2008 11:55:43 GMT -6
Somebody once asked me this, "if defense wins championships, why were all the repeat superbowl superbowl teams, (except for Pittsburg) known for their offenses" (New England, Dalls, San Fransisco etc...) They may heve been KNOWN for their offenses but here is where each ranked in the NFL in Scoring Defense the year they won the Super Bowl: Dallas 1992 5th 1993 2nd 1995 3rd San Fran 1984 1st 1988 8th 1989 3rd NE 2001 6th 2003 1st 2004 2nd
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Post by phantom on Aug 18, 2008 12:16:13 GMT -6
Forgot one:
Green Bay 1966 1st 1967 2nd
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Post by jgordon1 on Aug 18, 2008 19:47:44 GMT -6
one thing is for sure when the header is the oc..... the header will "1 more play" you until the team period goes over the scheduled time by 30 minuties....... This is why I always ask for the defense to go first when we practice both O and D during the same practice
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Post by coachdawhip on Aug 18, 2008 19:51:48 GMT -6
one thing is for sure when the header is the oc..... the header will "1 more play" you until the team period goes over the scheduled time by 30 minuties....... This is why I always ask for the defense to go first when we practice both O and D during the same practice I second that one, because we do always want 1 more play. For me it's simple, my offense is easier to game plan for than my defense and because as someone has said defense coach sets the mentally for the defense, being the OC always IMo the HC to do more.
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Post by airraider on Aug 18, 2008 20:00:24 GMT -6
one thing is for sure when the header is the oc..... the header will "1 more play" you until the team period goes over the scheduled time by 30 minuties....... haha.. my DC says he has already come to learn that 1 means 5..
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Post by liberalhater on Aug 19, 2008 7:41:51 GMT -6
Its always been my opinion that you get hired because of your work on the offensive or defensive side of the ball, so IMO you should continue that work as head and hire somebody for the other. JMO.
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Post by jgordon1 on Aug 19, 2008 20:07:42 GMT -6
if I ever get a head job my philosophy will be to hire the best coordinator possible and coach the other side. got my o playbook ready to go.
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Post by coachd5085 on Aug 19, 2008 22:59:44 GMT -6
I think it has to do with the very limited nature of H.S defenses, especially the limitations in each game. While you might see a 2 TE pwr i team week one, and an airraid week two, H.S. offenses rarely give you a great deal of variety within a game. Come up with a plan, work DL get offs, LB fills, DB fits and coverage...and thats it. Not a great deal of "white board wizardry" on the D end in high school.
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Post by jgordon1 on Aug 20, 2008 5:39:53 GMT -6
while I agree w/ you that hs defenses can be limited, especially for one platoon teams (we are one) if the OC is not giving variety on offense then I would contend that HS offenses are limited in nature too. so now we are back at square one.
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Post by dubber on Aug 20, 2008 6:19:47 GMT -6
Another reason to have them seperate is a man cannot be in two places at once.
HC's HAVE TO BE on the field
OC's SHOULD BE on the pressbox......that way they can disseminate the information they are seeing first hand and get their team into the best play.
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Post by dubber on Aug 20, 2008 6:23:04 GMT -6
I guess the rule of thumb is this:
If the quality of staff is good enough that HC and OC roles are done BEST when split up, go that way.
If the quality of staff is not good enough to do that, one guy calls the whole thing.
For most (not all) HC/OC's, however, these questions are not asked?
Probably because playcalling is as close to actual playing again as you can get......it is "too much fun" to let it go.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Aug 20, 2008 6:25:32 GMT -6
Same thing around here- most HCs are OCs as well.
I haven't been in the stands for a high school game in a long time, but I know that the public (including administration) seems much more concerned with what offense you're running than how tough your defense is. It's more apparent when an offense makes one mistake than when a defense does- a defender is more likely to "dumb" their way to making a good play than an offensive person will make a play by blowing his assignment...
I think that with the public scrutiny HCs tend to lean toward taking care of offense first and establishing that identity.
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Post by coachwoodall on Aug 20, 2008 7:42:52 GMT -6
Great advice from a former header I worked for, "When you are the HC, you better have your hands on the offense".
Most fans/casual observers will say, "If we could have scored on that last drive, we could have won" and NOT say, "If we could have held them a FG, instead of a TD on that last drive, we would have won."
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Post by coachd5085 on Aug 21, 2008 6:05:27 GMT -6
while I agree w/ you that hs defenses can be limited, especially for one platoon teams (we are one) if the OC is not giving variety on offense then I would contend that HS offenses are limited in nature too. so now we are back at square one. The difference being, even a very "simple" offense has multiplicity in its decisions. Defenses are reactionary. Offenses are not. A defensive coordinator at the HS level has but a few choices to make. Front A or Front B. Coverage A or Coverage B (Maybe coverage C)..blitz a,b,c. An OC usually has many.
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Post by coachd5085 on Aug 21, 2008 6:07:43 GMT -6
Great advice from a former header I worked for, "When you are the HC, you better have your hands on the offense". There was a thread discussing this several weeks ago that had some good points of view. My issue with the comment is that it assumes that the HC a "better" coach with regards to x's and o's than the rest of his staff.
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Post by coachwoodall on Aug 21, 2008 6:24:57 GMT -6
No just means if the HC isn't the OC, he better know exactly what is going on, b/c the guy with the microphone never sticks it front of the OC after the offense fails to get a crucial score.
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Post by coachd5085 on Aug 21, 2008 19:00:57 GMT -6
No just means if the HC isn't the OC, he better know exactly what is going on, b/c the guy with the microphone never sticks it front of the OC after the offense fails to get a crucial score. right, but "knowing exactly what is going on" is relatively unimportant if the OC is a better coach than the HC.
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