leo818
Freshmen Member
Posts: 56
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Post by leo818 on Jul 17, 2008 19:26:09 GMT -6
As numbers drop there are always questions and theories, but from my point of view it comes down to the choices the kids have, their background, and the payoff for participating. With more choices, the talent pool can get smaller, all too many little boys are being reared and educated to be little girls, and kids will gravitate toward what they perceive as fun. That may seem simplistic, but I think it hits the high spots. Our challenge as coaches is to make our sport a viable choice.
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Post by ttowntiger on Jul 20, 2008 12:48:21 GMT -6
Just a personal observation. Back when I was growing up in the 80's and early 90's, you always had kids playing football, basketball, or baseball in the yard. whatever was in season. You don't see that nearly as much now. Frankly, I think travel and all-star baseball have a lot to do with it. Those baseball coaches tell the kids to specialize and they are gone constantly, playing in organized tournaments virtually year-round, even on Sundays! And these kids are often as young as young as 7-8 years old. It really turns my stomach. Baseball is an enemy to football (or any other sport, for that matter). I know plenty of guys that played college baseball that can't stand baseball now, they just coach football or basketball.
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Post by schultbear74 on Jul 20, 2008 13:17:05 GMT -6
Ttowntiger As a kid in the 60's and the 70's I echo your observations I also found the 80's and 90's starting to move that direction My boys got baseballed and basketballed to a point where they hated it (they were both very good) My girl got too much softball. We need to be careful that football doesn't lose the highground as the aforementioned sports seemed to have.
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Post by ttowntiger on Jul 20, 2008 14:16:25 GMT -6
A kid at church a couple of weeks ago was telling me about his all-star baseball team. He said they were done by the end of June, which is the way it should be (the way it used to be). I asked him if he played fall baseball and he said, no, that he played football in the fall. I was glad to hear that. I encourage kids to play different sports.
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Post by davecisar on Jul 20, 2008 17:30:10 GMT -6
One of the guys at a clinic I did this weekend in Norfolk, VA had an interesting story. HE took his kid to a basketball clinic put on by Coach K. Coach K asked all the boys what sports they played. He suggested to all of them to play football in the fall, then basketball and baseball in the summer. The dad was very pleased and surprised.
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Post by fbdoc on Jul 20, 2008 17:42:28 GMT -6
Every big time basketball coach I have ever heard gives that same message - "Play football in the fall and another sport in the spring," and ... virtually every high school basketball coach tells his players they need to play AAU and Travel ball year round if they want to get a scholarship/be the best basketball player/fill in the blank. I don't know who is worse - basketball coaches or baseball coaches. Anyone for Travel Football?
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leo818
Freshmen Member
Posts: 56
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Post by leo818 on Jul 20, 2008 21:54:40 GMT -6
Baseball is a problem here too - kids won a state championship a few years back in baseball, but couldn't do anything of note on a football field. No weight room effort, too many sodas, sunflower seeds, and who knows what else (you can make some good guesses) during baseball and then there were folks up in arms wondering why they could win on one field and not the other. A big part of the equation a lot of the time is mom (My mom said....) which sometimes make me wonder what dad has to say. We even went so far as to start a bowling team at our school to satisfy some moms and so one kid could get a shot at a bowling scholarship at the state U. Ended up we lost some b-ball and wrestling kids to bowling! (fun, softdrinks, no sweating....)
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Post by liberalhater on Jul 21, 2008 6:22:27 GMT -6
IMO and unfortunately a lot of the problems with football turnouts is related to the family structure and the absence of the father.
As far as time spent, I dont know to many teenagers who want to spend their time with family. Most just want to hangout with their buddies talking chicks, sports, and cars. Just look at baseball and basketball.
I stated in another thread that you can do a workout in 45 minutes if the tempo and structure is right. Which means without helmets and pads you can do an awful in a 2 hour session with the kids.That leaves plenty of time for a summer job and family time.
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Post by schultbear74 on Jul 21, 2008 22:16:07 GMT -6
That makes the three hour sessions that we have sound Brutal. 1 hour strength, speed and conditioning with 2 hours specifics and individual.
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Post by liberalhater on Jul 22, 2008 1:06:06 GMT -6
thats 2 hours total. not 45 minute work out and 2 hours added on.
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Post by ttowntiger on Jul 26, 2008 16:05:38 GMT -6
One of the guys at a clinic I did this weekend in Norfolk, VA had an interesting story. HE took his kid to a basketball clinic put on by Coach K. Coach K asked all the boys what sports they played. He suggested to all of them to play football in the fall, then basketball and baseball in the summer. The dad was very pleased and surprised. Most good coaches agree with Coach K on that one. Most of the ones that try to get kids to specialize are the "daddyball" coaches whose worth as human beings (in their eyes) are determined by how many travel ball and select team championships they win. By the way, I believe LeBron James and I'm sure Allen Iverson were outstanding high school football players.
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chuff
Sophomore Member
Posts: 136
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Post by chuff on Jul 27, 2008 9:19:08 GMT -6
I learned a new term from the news the other day that I am affraid will make its way into schools. That term is "Social Handicap." It was in reference to that custody case in Austrailia involving the girl whose name was "Talula does the Hula from Hawaii." Although I agree with the Judge that the parenting decisions made in this case show a horrible lack of judgement, I just envisioned a parent telling me that disciplining their child gave them a social handicap:
"You have given Jimmy a social handicap because you yelled at him in front of his peers and hurt his self esteem..."
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Post by airman on Jul 28, 2008 16:03:30 GMT -6
you know what is an even worse social handicap? telling a child they are learning disabled. Happened in my family. I have a neice who was told she was learning disabled in the 3rd grade. They made life easy on her all through school. she would get upset and they at the school would look the other way.
she has bought right into this. even gets money from the government becasue of this. really what it is, is my sister is not the best parent cause she felt sorry for her.
so what we have now is a 23 year old adult with about an 8th grade education. She uses the LD lable to get what she needs.
tell a child they are LD, even if they are just lazy and you will get some one who is learning disabled.
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baraboo99
Sophomore Member
[F4:ryan.andersen33]
Posts: 205
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Post by baraboo99 on Jul 28, 2008 17:04:24 GMT -6
I repectfully disagree. Kids have way more issues to deal with. I graduated high school 22 years ago and we 4 kids in my entire class of 220 who had divorced parents. Now I read the athletic forms at the beginning of the year and it looks more the like other way around. 4 kids from 2 parent homes and the rest divorced homes. you have to have 2 sets of contact numbers. kids are forced at an early age to go back and forth on the weekends. many kids lack stabel homes. or as my pastor says, there are not illegit kids only illegit parents. Just because only 4 kids had divorced parents does not mean the other 216 came from happy homes. The children who grew up during that period of family values have grown up to be today's parents. It was because they didn't have great role models when they were kids because I bet their parents fought a lot. So just because there are more divorces now does not make it the cause of the problem. I think the best thing that ever happened to my childhood is when my mom had the common sense to get rid of my father. My mother and my grandmother turned out to be better father's then my dad could ever hope to be. Also I'm tired of people blaming video games for all of societies problems. First the average age for a gamer today is 32, so games today need to be made for that target audience. Just like movies and music there is a rating system for video games, and if you don't want your kids to play the game then step up and parent. You know why kids don't like playing sports now? Because they aren't fun anymore! Why did you go out and pick up a football while you were a kid? Because it was fun! Now kids pick up a football to hope to pay for college, or they spend their sport playing AAU bball because they HAVE to. We have 6 year old kids who have to think that the most important part of their summer is to go out and win a ____ball championship. Why would a kid rather stay at home and play madden then go out and play football...because at a young age we put too much pressure on kids and it causes them to lose interest. Winning is great, but at what cost? Sometimes the answer is so far away when its right in front of our faces.
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Post by touchdowng on Jul 28, 2008 21:57:21 GMT -6
Going to throw a wrench into this thread
Am reading a book by Dr. Leonard Sax called "Boys Adrift"
The writer provide 5 theories as to why boys are not achieving (academically) at the same rate they did 30 years ago. The book is steeped in scientific data so it's difficult to refute what he has to offer.
Basically, our American school system is partially to blame as is our computer society. Boys are no longer encouraged to "go out and conquer" as they once were - Not literally, but the way we have accelerated the way we teach school - Boys who are already 2 years behind girls in many ways when they get to Kindergarten are totally turned off on reading and writing. Before standardized testing was a must most kindergarten classes were about painting, playing, singing, show and tell, etc. Now, Kindergarten is much like 1st grade use to be.
Science has proven that the young boys pick up action much more readily with their eyesight than girls do. Whereas young girls pick up detail in what they see - not so much with movement. So what? Boys will tend to tell stories or write about dangerous settings (like James Bond) where girls will write more about the pretty farm that sits on the golden hill. In many settings, writing about violence (any kind of violence) is not appropriate and the boys are scorned for it. They are basically told that they have to write like Susie. Ugh!
In Finland kids don't start school until age 7 yet as teens they score significantly higher on standardized tests as do U.S. teens.
Our BOYS just aren't ready for some of the things that our school systems dishes out to them. They decide at a very early age that school is not for them and they sort of tune out.
The long term results are boys who go through life with no ambition or short termed goals (conquests).
In 1969 - 74% of college graduates were MALE In 2006 - 42% of college graduates were MALE
That's significant.
I don't think we have a sports problem - we have a boy problem.
Some might say that boys have always been portrayed as being lazy at school. See Tom Sawyer or Ferris Buehler. Right?
The difference between Tom and Ferris is that they liked to skip school but they were always up to something that seemed bigger (conquest).
Boys these days think it's cool to just sit around and chill.
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Post by liberalhater on Jul 28, 2008 22:52:53 GMT -6
Touchdowng, It starts at home. Directly or indirectly these behaviors are being taught and allowed. A lot of that is the absence of fathers. And that is not JUST related divorce. Their are married couples where the father is noticably absent in their sons lives. And with boys that leads to lack of any real structure. Football is a game of structure. Pending where you end up as a young man and your family back ground and the structure or lack their of , Football can be a tough adjustment. I dont anybody who plays a game to just have fun. IF they are honest, everybody plays the game to win, regardless of the game.
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Post by k on Jul 28, 2008 23:08:41 GMT -6
I dont anybody who plays a game to just have fun. Odd cause I don't know anyone who plays a game by choice for ANY other reason than to have fun.
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Post by touchdowng on Jul 28, 2008 23:14:42 GMT -6
liberalhater I agree 100% with what you say about the home and all of that. I've always believed that but to a certain degree.
You should read the book because it does explain some with what is going on in our society with boys as a whole.
Interesting read.
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Post by justryn2 on Jul 29, 2008 9:01:26 GMT -6
I totally agree with touchdowng; society as a whole, and public schools in particular, will not "let boys be boys." The reason so many school aged boys are on drugs, and I'm talking about the ones prescribed by physicians not the illegal ones (as if that really made any difference), is that when boys are boys their teachers call them ADHD. As a parent of two boys, one now in college and the other in high school, I've seen first hand what teachers at the grade school level put normal, active boys through.
Now, I don't want to paint with too broad of a brush here; there are good teachers who will actually take the time to work with and try to motivate active boys. But these seem to be the exception and not the rule.
So, what does this have to do with boys and football? I believe that, by the time boys reach the 7th or 8th grade, a number of them have been so conditioned (and / or drugged) to resist the normal boyhood behaviors, including competitive behaviors, that they have a difficult time adjusting to the demands of competitive sports. When they don't adjust, they don't get playing time and then its no fun.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 29, 2008 9:32:50 GMT -6
justryn2
Just to play a quick devils advocate here...do you teach/have you taught in the classroom at the lower elementary levels? I have, and the "boys being boys" thing doesn't play with me. If the kid doesn't behave,and it interferes with others, why should that be chalked up to "boys being boys". Why should the teacher, who is already being forced to differentiate instruction to accommodate a wide variety of learning styles and multiple intelligences have to FURTHER differentiate instruction to accommodate "boys being boys".
Keep in mind, it wasn't the TEACHERS calling kids ADHD, but rather Parents who started this, looking for special treatment for what (at the time) were kids who didn't behave.
So, what does this have to do with football? I think the issue is that for some reason, we are leaning to a society where people don't "want" to be taught. I know that at the recent summer camps I worked with (at risk youth camps in conjunction with the N.O. Saints), the overwhelming majority of kids would rather just "GO DEEP" and drop every pass, than to actually work on catching the ball. "Drills" are forced learning.
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Post by k on Jul 29, 2008 9:50:02 GMT -6
While I think there is something to "boys being boys" I think people tend to take it to far. A fist fight in the hallway is not "boys being boys." A kid who tells the teacher "no" is not "boys being boys."
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Post by tiger46 on Jul 29, 2008 11:07:04 GMT -6
While I think there is something to "boys being boys" I think people tend to take it to far. A fist fight in the hallway is not "boys being boys." A kid who tells the teacher "no" is not "boys being boys." You think a fistfight in the hallways is something more problematic than two boys that just couldn't come to an agreement about something?
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Post by k on Jul 29, 2008 14:03:09 GMT -6
You think a fistfight in the hallways is something more problematic than two boys that just couldn't come to an agreement about something? "Come to an agreement about something" I don't know that a just should precede that. Kids get into a fight about a lot of things. "He stepped on my shoes" "He *#&@#$ my girlfriend" Doesn't really matter. In the real world when you have a disagreement you don't automatically resort to violence. Doing so during school hours is a serious problem.
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Post by touchdowng on Jul 29, 2008 16:31:16 GMT -6
coachd5085
It's not so much boys being boys from a roughhouse or respect standpoint. (I agree with your narratives - kids need to behave).
The views that have been presented in this book (Boys Adrift) have more do to with the way boys are being taught in their subject areas. There are four more factors but today's education is one of them. I think the drugging (ADD/ADHD) of our young kids has much to do with the fact that they are disinterested in what is being presented to them.
Let's take writing for instance: When a boy writes a story about something violent, he is oftentimes chastised and asked to re-create the story (post-Columbine).
I remember, writing a story about a cowboy and an indian when I was a youngster (4th grader). There were guns, there was blood, there was a hero and I was given an A for it. What I learned is that "writing is fun." It was fun because I was rewarded for it. Being able to write about action made it interesting for me.
If my son turned that story in, he would be sent to the Principal's office.
If had to write about Debbie going shopping with her mom - yaddah, yaddah, yaddah - TURN OFF.
When people are not motivated, they shut down and disconnect and will seem to have a short attention span - So, let's give Johnny drugs.
We have many boys in our public school system who have disconnected. However, it's more to do with classroom methodologies and not classroom management.
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chuff
Sophomore Member
Posts: 136
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Post by chuff on Jul 29, 2008 16:33:16 GMT -6
I would second the recommendation of reading Boys Adrift by Dr Sax. Some alarming trends!
The danger of video games is not the sitting around or the amount of time spent on them. It is the "over simulation" they provide. A 32 year old has already faced the challenges of the real world, he understands reality and that there is no reset button. He has learned how to problem solve. But how will the CHILD who has only encountered challenges in the fantasy world learn to overcome a real world problem if he is never placed in a position to do so? That is the greatest aspect of sports: learning how to handle adversity!!! We are taking adversity out or our society- think about it, every new innovation is meant to make things easier for ourselves!
I can tell you from my experience in education (I am a teacher) that the kids in our hallway RARELY try anything hard. They would rather come back to the classroom with a blank piece of paper and complain that they "didn't understand it" than to crack open the book and "figure it out"
That, by the way, is my new favorite slogan for this upcoming football season. When an uncovered reciever scores a toughdown at a 7 on 7, instead of automatically running in to "save the day" for our kids, we have them huddle at the area the mistake was made to talk between themsleves about what happened and how THEY need to fix it. Then we will answer questions. We are trying to teach our players to be self-reliant. (there is no google on the football field!)
BTW, using the statistic of 32 being the average age of a "gamer" hurts the arguement in favor of video games. That is also the fastest growing age group of men moving back in with their parents (read the book)! Not trying to start an agruement, just an observation!
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mojoben
Sophomore Member
Posts: 149
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Post by mojoben on Aug 2, 2008 20:49:42 GMT -6
I agree with what Chaff said. Kids aren't any different, their environment is.
It is a major topic of discussion in the region of the state I'm from with many coaches. I remember growing up with no grass on many of the kids houses. It was all worn out from either baseball, football, or whatever. The basketball courts that started from grass were all dirt. Now we hardly see none of this in our communities. You can disagree if you want, but kids use to play outside all the time. They were flooding the parks, they were riding their bicycles, they were roaming the streets with their friends, etc. Now you hardly see any of this. Now they are locked away in their rooms playing video games.
I hear the same thing from the local Libraries. Kids use to check out a lot more books, but now they only come into the Library to spend all their time on the computers playing video games. The Librarians have to kick them out after a certain amount of time. They complain about seeing these lazy obese kids. It saddens people to see an out of shape kid with no ambition to do anything physical at all.
I can understand how over exposing kids at an early age can be a problem as well. I understand how I felt with golf. I played it all the time when I was growing up and played it in college. Didn't want to touch a club for three years after the fact. We need to keep our kids active, but just not over do it.
I think there is a lot I agree with in this thread and some I disagree about. All and all a good thread that is important to many.
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Post by justryn2 on Aug 3, 2008 8:20:12 GMT -6
To answer the question CoachD asked, No, I do not and have not taught in a lower level elementary classroom. However; I am the father of two sons who have been through elementary school. When my oldest began to struggle in the classroom, strictly learning issues mind you, no behavior problems; we were strongly encouraged to take him to a neurologist. I resisted this for a while but the school district became rather adamant.
After spending all of about 2 minutes with my son, the doctor wrote him a prescription for Ritalin. A few months later, when this pill did not prove to be the "magic bullet," the dosage was increased. I hate to admit now, be we allowed my son to spend the next two years of his life in a drug induced fog. When we finally realized that neither the school district nor the doctor was actually trying to do anything to help my son, we took him off the drug. He completed high school with average to slightly below average grades and will receive his college degree in the next 10 to 12 months.
Sorry about the long response but, I don't have to work in a classroom to know first hand what schools do to boys that don't conform. When they wanted to drug my younger son we told them in no uncertain terms that he would not be drugged to attend school. BTW, and this is strictly anecdotal and I am not implying any cause and effect here. My older son stopped playing sports after his freshman year in high school. My younger son has been a two or three sport athlete since second grade and is QB for his high schools sophomore team.
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Post by liberalhater on Aug 3, 2008 21:42:09 GMT -6
Just, You get it. For that alone you will have my eternal respect. Your story of your two sons is inspiration to me. Congrats. Congrats on raising two great young men. Being a father and or parents will go farther to cure "boys being boys", than any drug.
Touchdowng, I understand what is going on with boys now a days. Out of respect for the game of the board via football, I will not go in depth on this, but i am pretty sure I know what is going on with boys now a days. I have hinted at it in previous post. Read Karl Marx. Then turn the tube emema. That is what is being put in our boys heads.
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