England's approach to youth soccer

Ha Ha....we didn't let them play football here, till they "were already 8", coach D.....far as keeping track of wins and losses during the season, most of my players couldn't have told you our record, if money was involved, lol.....they live and play for the moment.....they "know" if they won or lost the game they just played, but 30 minutes later, while pigging out at a local fast food joint, if I'd have asked the entire team what the score was......I'll guarantee that most of them, wouldn't know or really care much by that point, but they "did remember" the good plays or big hits they made, so they could brag about it at school the next day,lol.....if you failed to get a kid in the game, for whatever reason, they also remember that.......keeping up with all the records, statistics, etc.... and making "too big" of a deal of it, falls on the adults.....coach's, parents, etc....Working kids at different positions or skill sets, when their real young, is probably something most of us try to do anyhow.....but....as they get older though, say in the 12-13 range......and especially if you play a mixed weight format......we kinda played them in positions, where they'd likely have the best chance of playing on the school jr. high team, when they left us that season........a weight class format, would be a different thing altogether, where the entire team is "nearly" the same size, weight.....speed aside, they may find it easier, to work kids at different positions, at a higher age bracket?

LOL......wish I'd had more Jimmy's.....but, as we were usually blessed with waay more "average Joe's", it behooved us to try to spread it around......but I've had some special kids on teams before......and you're right......"your own" natural competitive instinct to win, tells you, to let this kid carry the load.....(without any help from parents, lol)......granted, you'll still need good blocking and execution from the other 10 guys, if you're playing an "equal opponent"......but if you're smart.....you'll remember you have 5 other skill positions, that need some carry's, passes, etc...to get the most out of them and the offense......just takes some of us, longer than others, to get smart, lol.......The parents were actually pretty good here, coach D......and not particularly worried about such things, as stats, records, etc.... And honestly, I wouldn't care if they did.....the worst they could do, is run me off , from a no pay, volunteer job, lol

To answer your first question..the reason is because 6 year olds are VASTLY different than 14 year olds.

That is the crux of this issue. WINNING YOUTH PLAY...can lead to substantially different methods than higher levels of play.

Brophy discussed the lack of teaching the passing game, TRULY teaching the passing game (not just throwing a few play action boots or sprints) at the early youth levels several months back. The reason that such things are not done as that it is a waste of time if you want to "win". Davecisar has accurately pointed out (with some impressive stats) that on average, nationwide , passing the ball simply does NOT produce wins at the early youth levels. With the limited practice time already, and various experience levels, minimum play requirements...the formula for winning youth sports DIFFERS from the formulas for winning sports at other levels.
For example:

In lower level youth baseball, you take pitches, steal bases, and pitch around (intentionally walk) the heart of the other teams line up when men are on base.

In lower level youth basketball...forget running any semblance of offense. You press, you trap in the corner, you put your tall player on the left block, you have your ball handler dribble down the right side, take to the goal, and have the tall player weakside rebound the misses.

In lower level youth football, you cut your split to 6inches (12 max), you run misdirection series football, or toss to your fastest player running wide.

Bottom line--Winning YOUTH sports is different (especially at the lower levels) than winning at older ages. It is a valid question to ask..if the emphasis is not on winning, will that allow for better skill development...

This wasn't a self esteem issue, it wasn't about protecting little johnny's ego. This was about the coaches and the parents. It was about someone (national soccer organization) saying TEACH THESE SKILLS, recognizing that at 6, 7,8 years old, THOSE SKILLS...don't produce winners. Maybe, if trophies and titles and wins aren't pushed by parents and coaches..then might see a great youth coach like Davecisar use his methodology, teaching skills, organizational skills etc.. to teach a qb some true QB mechanics/fundamentals relating to the passing game. Maybe they will teach catching, very detailed route running, more advanced coverage techniques...maybe some pass pro, maybe some zone steps. All skills that do not lead to wins at 6,7,8....but definitely impact play at 15,16,17.

Which high school. My city has 4 public and one private high school? The youth league is city wide. The next parish (county) has 2 public and 1 private with a city wide youth league. There is another smaller youth league that basis its team geographically (teams from smaller towns or locals) feeds 3 different high schools.

Just trying to show that situations are not the same nationwide.

let me see if i can sum up the reason for this:

the youth coaches were {censored}, only concerned with "run the fastest kid play", didn't do any teaching to anyone other than "get out of john's way", so, league governing body went to this ...

pretty much sum it up? so, basically, PC way of saying "you coaches suck, so we ain't gonna keep score"

lol huey



to the others

they should fire the dang coaches then


get ones in there that don't have to stroke the ego so dang much


have someone that knows what they are doing in charge of the league and see if they are teaching the game while still competing


if they aren't then shitcan them


if they are--keep them around as long as possible regardless of record

ummmm

we do at the varsity level

it's called playing time


this aint rocket surgery man

LOL......well, we did give out these cheap little participation trophy's at the end of each season.....but seriously.......we didn't keep score during okie drills at practice, and it was pretty dang competitive, lol.......so yeah, coach D.....(theoretically speaking)......winning or losing a competition, doesn't necessarily have to be numbers on a scoreboard.... it could be, who's on the ground, on their backside and who's looking down at them grinning, lol......then...if more of their guys are on their butts, our guy with the football, can run all the way down the field, across the line with the "G"s on each end.....then the other team gets their turn.......instead of keeping up with "how many times" your guys run across the "G" line......they could just play like this for an hour or so....enjoying.... knocking kids down.....tackling the kid with the ball.....playing throw and catch.....trying to kick the ball between the two posts, etc....hmmmm, sounds like good ,competitive, fun, to me, lol !

Speaking from experience of coaching in several different youth leagues at many different age levels:

Some kids are naturally competitive, they are really into winning and losing even down to age 7, but many arent, it depends on the kid. Ive almost always found those ultra competitive kids almost always are real good players when they get older.

Most coaches at age 6-8 are VERY low key. I started an in-house rec level type league for our age 6-8 kids with a rule that EVERYONE started and played the whole game at at least one position and we didn keep score or have league titles. Guess what? The kids knew the score, the parents kept track and one team even had a "league championship" and gave out trophies. It ended up beingn a big hassle. No matter how low key we tried to make it, some of the kids and parents wanted it to be competitive, 3 of the 4 teams coaches were great, they "got it" the kids and many parents didnt'

As the kids get older they can do more and they naturally get more competitive. If our goal is to retain kids and help them develop a love for the game, it's our duty to teach great fundamentals, get everyone involved, play everyone and have competitive teams. Ive never personally coached a team where one player had over 30% of the yardage in a season. If you are a good coach with a good scheme, you dont have to rely on that one kid to carry your team. Ive coached against plenty of those teams though.

For each of the last 3 seasons every one of my kids has carried the ball at least once and 36 different kids have scored TDs. Thats how you get 95% + retention rates.
You can teach great fundamentals, play everyone, have fun, spread it aroung AND win.

The best youth coaches do all this and have competitive teams, these arent mutually exclusive goals. Many coaches that have not had team success will argue against that point. But rarely do the well coached teams that have great fundamentals do poorly on the field. It is easy to see which teams are running great practices, not wasting time and have the correct priorities in the first 5 minutes of most games.

PArt of it too is putting kids into schemes and techniques where they can have both personal and team success. If the kid isnt having at least some success and playing, they arent having fun. One team we played in 2006 threw the ball 31 times and completed 0 in a game we won 38-6. We on the other hand threw just 5 times, completing 3, Who do you think had more fun? MY team had 13 different ballcarriers that game and 5 different kids scoresd TDs, 5 different kids kicked off and 4 different kids got PAT kick tries, everyone got plenty of snaps on both sides of the ball etc. who had more fun? I promise you my kids we smiling a lot more than the kids on the other sidelines

Football isnt all about how many passes you throw, it's about blocking and tackling. Those coaches that can do that and instill a love and appreciation of the game into their players are the ones retaining players and doing a great job IMHO.

Its been my personal experience the guys in the leagues weve played in that whine the most about this, rarely have competitive teams and look for excuses they can tell their parents when the parents arent happy with the results on the field. These are the same teams where kids arent getting into good stances, dont accelerate through contact and the offenses and defenses look like a smorgasboard of Sunday NFL clips, yes NFL type schemes, but not the ESPN Sportscenter clips, the football follies ones.

This is exactly my point. Obviously football doesn't have a national team, like England has in soccer, so it is an apples to oranges...or maybe even grapes...comparison. HOWEVER the thought that the National directors are telling peaople (parents) "WORRYING ABOUT SCORES/TROPHIES at 6,7,8 is HURTING us in the long run" is a very interesting concept.

As far as the rest of your discussion supports what I am talking about. If you are going to "win" at the youth level...there are certain things you will teach, and certain things YOU WILL NOT teach.

Coach,
The facts and research shows that if the kid isnt having some personal and team success, HE WONT EVER PLAY HS FOOTBALL so none of it would matter one bit
If he never makes it to the HS field all is lost.
The guys from Jenks and other top HS programs in the country couldnt care less what a kid has run as long as hes coachable and has a love and appreciation of the game AND IS STILL PLAYING.

Those are great points J and Dave.....#1-the kids need to keep playing = "whatever it takes" to keep them interested in football? #2- the better prepared they are(generic fundamental wise) = the better chance they'll have of playing right away, at whatever level they proceed to....whether jr. high or whatever? #3- Which particular fundamentals you stress = probably has more to do with your "program's mission" and the "type of scheme's" you run? #4 - Every youth program has a slightly different situation = some are in small community's, feeding into 1 school program, while others in high population areas, feed many school systems.....#5 - Need good communication with the program's your players will be going to = While most school coach's, probably don't care what the local youth program runs scheme wise(ours didn't)....I'd bet that most would like "certain generic fundamentals" taught and reinforced......again....might be hard to determine, in a large population area, but very easy in a small community......You're right also Dave.....we don't need our national football league, dictating our practice methods, lol......but it certainly wouldn't hurt to get the input of our local school programs.....just my opinion

LOS,

Very good post anyway

In addition Coach Cisar, sometimes bodies don't change enough. I've had players at the youth level that were predominantly OL/DL because of weight limitations (160 lbs. at the midget level), go to high school and find they're RB/SS in size. This is especially prevalent because most high schools where I live don't have frosh teams, just JV and varsity. As a result, a 165 lb. kid who has never had to play in space has to learn very quickly, or the coaches start to label him as "fundamentally unsound"; never mind the fact that he blocks and tackles like a beast, he got burned on the post-corner...