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Post by eaglemountie on Jun 15, 2008 13:09:47 GMT -6
The biggest problem we have in our area is explaining to our youth coaches that just because they win the area league championships that does not always translate to a great high school team. These guys think that we as high school coaches know nothing about the game becausw their kids won the pee-wee league super bowl 3 years in a row in which they played the kids that go to the cross-town rivals school. And they also play no one out of the area.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 15, 2008 13:31:39 GMT -6
GENTLEMAN...please be advised..
YOu have chosen on of the few professions (Along with officiating, and maybe teaching, and in some respect politics) where almost EVERYONE thinks that they can do the job as well as if not better than the people who are doing it.
You will definitely burn yourself out if you try to "educate" those who already know it.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2008 13:47:56 GMT -6
True story: I work with a couple of guys who are big NFL fans, but have never played a down in their lives. They absolutely hate the Cowboys and look to bash Romo whenever they get the chance. Anyway, after one of the Giants-Cowboys regular season games, one of them described a play where Romo didn't see an open receiver and threw an incomplete pass to someone else. I tried describing the concept of reading defenders and progressions and he just looked at me with a blank stare. After a couple seconds, he said, "Why do you guys do all that sh**! Just have your QB throw to the open man!"
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Post by joe83843 on Jun 15, 2008 16:11:39 GMT -6
I've actually taken a lot of what I've learned about reading defenses and constraint theoryOh lord -- it's leaking into general usage... ;D ;D lol, I'll admit I'm somewhat new to the profession and only used the term because I really think it's useful and learned it on a blog a coach who's trying to educate me about football gave me. If it makes you feel any better, no "fan" ever knows what it is when I bring it up, only coaches. ;D Oh, in case you wanted to read it, here was the blog. It's the second post down. smartfootball.blogspot.com/
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Post by raiderpirates on Jun 15, 2008 18:16:54 GMT -6
Three cover is three deep. Cover three uses force corners and the MLB helps the deep middle so you get a three deep look on top of it. Thus it has cover two force corner work implemented outside the hashmarks.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 15, 2008 18:30:25 GMT -6
Raider----that is most certainly a very UNCOMMON definition of cover 3. It certainly is not the generally accepted definition of cover 3 (in fact you are describing one of the key elements of Dungy's Tampa 2) --which was kind of my point. Just some professional critique, nothing personal. I have just noticed that you use a good deal of "jargon" or coach speak with terms that others do not use.
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Post by brophy on Jun 16, 2008 7:29:06 GMT -6
So in the end they still believe the guys in the nfl network. was wondering if a fan has ever came up to you and started talking football, telling you how things are done cause the watched the nfl network or football 101 on espn and they think they have it all down. It really reasserted the fact the a little bit of knowledge can make you think you are dangerous. #1 - what happens when these guys make up your staff? #2 - why does it matter if these guys are idiots? Isn't that the reason people are fans in the first place? * While I appreciate the nuances of analysis Jaworski, Hoge, and others attempt to bring to the game to the average fan, I think we also have to be mindful that they have to appeal to the lowest common denominator. It gets old listening to Jaworski pine, "I've watched every single pass thrown by _____ and I've concluded that he likes to throw to the open receiver....." making blanket, hyperbole-laden statements about strategy and tactics, so you really can't blame the fans for being misguided. Your level of education is only as good as the information you are presented. The average fan doesn't care to read an AFCA article, let alone even want to know how "it" works on the field.
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Post by kurtbryan on Jun 16, 2008 7:56:24 GMT -6
Fun thread, so here goes: First of all when in a Bar and guys start popping off about how crappy a football coach is, or that they know exactly what needs to be done, if I do not feel like debating with their inebriated rant, then I give them two pat answers so it seems like I am in-step with them, but in reality I have said nothing: 1. "Unbelievable..." and I gently shake my head 2. "Tell me more..." so I can quietly sip my beer KB
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Post by spreadattack on Jun 16, 2008 9:42:29 GMT -6
I've actually taken a lot of what I've learned about reading defenses and constraint theoryOh lord -- it's leaking into general usage... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D I'd rather talk to someone who has at least played some Madden. There's plenty unrealistic in there and you don't need to really understand football to play well, but there is the difference between man and zone, and the idea that runs have numbers advantages (even from spread sets), and if you are going to throw you have to protect. Many fans don't understand even those basics.
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Post by spreadattack on Jun 16, 2008 12:15:29 GMT -6
Vermeil was pretty good when he did some commentating. I enjoyed when he was the announcer for the TTech v. Minnesota bowl game when they came back. Some of it was lame/mediocre but you turn the microphone on for anyone for four hours and you'll get that. He at least knew what he was watching, had an enthusiasm, and at least a few times broke it down.
Fans are fans. It's hard to know what the reaction is. If you think about all the time you've invested in knowing the game (hey you're here!), it's obvious that others that other fans have not done the same.
The difficult part is when you start explaining it that they don't have an epiphany and join the faith. Instead they shrug and go back to whatever else. But that's life. I have a cell phone. I like using it. I have no idea how it works, and if someone sat me down to explain it I'd be interested, but I don't think I could make it through hours of explanation. Nor would it be likely that I'd look at cell phones in a brand new light.
With lots of grey between, people fall into a few categories regarding football: (1) people uninterested in the game (i.e. women and communists), (2) the casual, uninformed fan (of which plenty of announcers, sports writers, and even former players/coaches can be part of this), (3) the intelligent fan (the people who enjoy knowing and understanding the game, whether it is their job to teach it), and (4) the coaches, who must know the game because it is their job to teach it to other, teach it to their kids, and produce on the field.
Now there's overlap in there, but ideally all (4)s are also (3)s - coaches who love teaching but also love knowing all there is to know about the game. Many intelligent people (towtheline is on his way to being one) may fall into (3) - they are interested and want to learn. The majority of people are (1)s and (2)s. And there's nothing wrong with (1) - if you don't like football, so be it. Nor is there anything that bad about (2).... the problem is when the casual, uninformed fans think they are know it alls. But that's society.
As my Dad used to tell me, there's no bigger waste of time than arguing with an idiot.
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Post by brophy on Jun 16, 2008 12:30:01 GMT -6
lets say you DO bar-napkin some sense into a fan. Lets say you explain the concept and application of Cover 2 ( 90% of fans believe Cover 2 is something that is run on every down ) into Indy's one-back Drive concept.
They will say, [/center] [/i][/quote]
So, what have you gained? And isn't that part of the allure of the pro game? That the actual REALITY of the game is suspended for the fan? That their favorite player can just will things to happen on the field (rather than facing the reality that one guy is simply outperforming his competitors)? I believe THIS is why you don't see more of the wide shots because it takes away from the emotional drama that the game thrives on for fans, giving us the 50 yd line view to heighten the experience of seeing it from this perspective.
[gvid]-7486339875671558384[/gvid] NOT AS EMOTIONALLY STIMULATING AS THIS.... [GVID]-1850342799418256739[/GVID]
You're trying to bring reality into the fantasy-Matrix world that the majority of the fans live when they watch the games. They want to take the blue pill and just forget.
I don't know how many discussions I've heard/read where it becomes, "No, no....you're stupid! There is NO WAY ______ can play in this defense, because the DT has to be 6'5" 330lbs. ______ will be traded because he doesn't fit the scheme They HAVE to get rid of him before the season starts because he won't be able to contribute in a Cover 2"
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Post by eickst on Jun 16, 2008 12:38:21 GMT -6
Excellent point brophy. For some fans it's merely an escape from their boring lives, or a revisit to a time when they were kids and still had dreams. Now they have no dreams but still like to think that they could "do it better".
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Post by fbdoc on Jun 16, 2008 12:48:44 GMT -6
I think the "outperforming his competitors" comment is a key. As an example, I believe that in the NFL, you see far more throws into double coverage where the receiver goes up and makes the catch, where as the same throw in college (and definitely HS) gets picked or at least knocked down. So many of these discussions - coach vs fan - end up with the fan confused or angry and as such are not productive.
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Post by brophy on Jun 16, 2008 13:02:22 GMT -6
I think the "outperforming his competitors" comment is a key. As an example, I believe that in the NFL, you see far more throws into double coverage where the receiver goes up and makes the catch, where as the same throw in college (and definitely HS) gets picked or at least knocked down. So many of these discussions - coach vs fan - end up with the fan confused or angry and as such are not productive. there have actually been discussions on THIS board to that effect. Arguing the "boneheaded" playcalls and coverages of the NFL, that complicated coverages getting 'blown' when an offense runs 2 verts to a side vs Cover 2
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Post by burtledog on Jun 16, 2008 17:22:38 GMT -6
.
Proverbs 26:4 (New International Version) New International Version (NIV) Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself. GOD
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 16, 2008 17:29:05 GMT -6
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Post by joe83843 on Jun 17, 2008 4:05:02 GMT -6
So in the end they still believe the guys in the nfl network. was wondering if a fan has ever came up to you and started talking football, telling you how things are done cause the watched the nfl network or football 101 on espn and they think they have it all down. It really reasserted the fact the a little bit of knowledge can make you think you are dangerous. #1 - what happens when these guys make up your staff? #2 - why does it matter if these guys are idiots? Isn't that the reason people are fans in the first place? * While I appreciate the nuances of analysis Jaworski, Hoge, and others attempt to bring to the game to the average fan, I think we also have to be mindful that they have to appeal to the lowest common denominator. It gets old listening to Jaworski pine, "I've watched every single pass thrown by _____ and I've concluded that he likes to throw to the open receiver....." making blanket, hyperbole-laden statements about strategy and tactics, so you really can't blame the fans for being misguided. Your level of education is only as good as the information you are presented. The average fan doesn't care to read an AFCA article, let alone even want to know how "it" works on the field. This might be a topic for another thread, but since you brought up AFCA articles, does anyone know a good place (preferably online) where I can find some? The few I've read have been really good, and it seems like a good resource to learn from.
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tedseay
Sophomore Member
Posts: 165
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Post by tedseay on Jun 17, 2008 6:26:51 GMT -6
This might be a topic for another thread, but since you brought up AFCA articles, does anyone know a good place (preferably online) where I can find some? The few I've read have been really good, and it seems like a good resource to learn from. Coach: Matthew 7:7: "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you" Here you go, courtesy of theprez98: rapidshare.com/files/76774368/AFCA.zip
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tedseay
Sophomore Member
Posts: 165
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Post by tedseay on Jun 17, 2008 7:53:17 GMT -6
Three cover is three deep. Cover three uses force corners and the MLB helps the deep middle so you get a three deep look on top of it. Thus it has cover two force corner work implemented outside the hashmarks. Coach: Just a comment -- in my experience, when people express themselves forcefully, using a vocabulary with which no one else is deeply acquainted, they generally don't know what the hell they're talking about.
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Post by brophy on Jun 17, 2008 8:33:24 GMT -6
As the chief defensive persistency specialist, it is my duty to coordinate the disbursement of defenders re-equitizing the competitive dynamics through re-engineering the coverage modality that capitalizes on the numerical deficit enhancement on the field of play. Marked mobility on thrice coverage treatment, coupled with quadratic line play
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Post by towtheline on Jun 17, 2008 15:01:31 GMT -6
As the chief defensive persistency specialist, it is my duty to coordinate the disbursement of defenders re-equitizing the competitive dynamics through re-engineering the coverage modality that capitalizes on the numerical deficit enhancement on the field of play. Marked mobility on thrice coverage treatment, coupled with quadratic line play That is word for word what that I was thinking
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Post by joe83843 on Jun 17, 2008 18:34:46 GMT -6
This might be a topic for another thread, but since you brought up AFCA articles, does anyone know a good place (preferably online) where I can find some? The few I've read have been really good, and it seems like a good resource to learn from. Coach: Matthew 7:7: "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you" Here you go, courtesy of theprez98: rapidshare.com/files/76774368/AFCA.zipThanks guys!!
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Post by hustleandheart on Jun 17, 2008 21:27:04 GMT -6
This might be a topic for another thread, but since you brought up AFCA articles, does anyone know a good place (preferably online) where I can find some? The few I've read have been really good, and it seems like a good resource to learn from. Coach: Matthew 7:7: "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you" Here you go, courtesy of theprez98: rapidshare.com/files/76774368/AFCA.zipThanks alot for that file, Coach. Thanks also to whoever asked that question!
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Post by coachorr on Jun 17, 2008 22:25:53 GMT -6
Tedseay, I was noticing that the circles drawn on the board behind you are not ovals. You are fired!
Brophy, I would actually watch more NFL if they had games in the first version you posted, because then I can see what the heck is actually going on. I have really increased my love for TV football since purchasing a DVR. I can actually rewind the plays that I want to see the reruns on, you know, the 3 to 4 yard run plays, which they never show the replays on.
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Post by morris on Jun 17, 2008 23:08:15 GMT -6
for Homer Smith it is not the shape but the placment of the Oline Os at the proper depth of the center's O's belt.
In John Gruden's book he talks abotu practing making perfectly round circles.
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Post by Coach Huey on Jun 18, 2008 9:35:54 GMT -6
... Actually though, I find it amusing that so many on here seem to really like razzing the common fan with a little knowledge here..HOWEVER, guys..lets face it, how many posters here could go whiteboard it with Tom Moore or thingy Lebeau...Would the difference between the football knowledge of the coaches of SweetValley High really and Joe Armchair be tremendously different than the difference between football knowledge of those SVH coaches and Saban or Tuberville? excellent point ... completely agree ...
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Post by airraider on Jun 18, 2008 10:10:01 GMT -6
This might be a topic for another thread, but since you brought up AFCA articles, does anyone know a good place (preferably online) where I can find some? The few I've read have been really good, and it seems like a good resource to learn from. Coach: Matthew 7:7: "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you" Here you go, courtesy of theprez98: rapidshare.com/files/76774368/AFCA.zipThose dang cats are messing me up.. and I cant DL it..
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coachpodach
Freshmen Member
We're on a mission from God...
Posts: 69
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Post by coachpodach on Jun 18, 2008 12:36:56 GMT -6
Having the same problems with the cats as well... ;D
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