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Post by stackboy on Apr 23, 2008 20:01:51 GMT -6
I have been involved in coaching for 12 years and today I witnessed a first. A white kid was trying to encourage a black kid during a drill. Black kid snapped back at him saying "don't talk down to me, and talked about his girlfriend and blah blah blah. Racial slurs were used by the black kid and other black kids chimed in every time a white kid was getting on to the black kids for loafing during every drill. The inner problem is that pretty much all the black kids we have are loafing in every drill and are taking a "gangsta" approach to any comments. They do not respect the coaches or anyone else. My question is where do you draw the line and what are some words of wisdom. Firing kids is what some would say......but I am not sure what the best solution is. The future of the program is on shaky ground. Thanks in advance for any comments.
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Post by kurtbryan on Apr 23, 2008 20:41:46 GMT -6
If the situation is as dire as it appears in your program, time to forget drills, X & O, or anything else.
HARMONY is key within your program, the kids and staff.
IF my program was in your situation this is what I would do:
1. Draw up a list of problems as you see em
2. Set up 15 minute one-on-one interviews with each kid to learn what is concerning them, and always have one key staff member in that meeting with you to have more ears
3. Meet with the players to review the common problems within the program, and if racial tensions are there, find out why
4. Ask the players for their answers to all of the problems and listen
5. Set up times to discuss things at length with the team until almost everybody is satisfied because unfortunately you can never please every single person in your program to their satisfaction
6. Ensure you and your Captains are on the same page, and make sure everybody in the program understands all players are equal regardless of race
* The drills and skills will always be there, but Harmony is a key component.
KB
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Post by gschwender on Apr 24, 2008 5:05:57 GMT -6
film practices--if a black kid is definitely faster than a white kid and coming in last in everything then what can they say when someone gets onto them? Then if they do get "fired" and push the issue elsewhere you have proof---just make sure that you get onto EVERYONE the same for lack of effort. It is a shame that this is going on.
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kr7263
Sophomore Member
Posts: 228
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Post by kr7263 on Apr 24, 2008 5:57:13 GMT -6
You must address this issue immediately and forcefully - do not turn this into a negative issue (black vs white) this is a TEAM issue. WE are not acting as a TEAM. WE are all in this TOGETHER. If one person fails we all fail. What are the characteristics of a TEAM. Instead of pointing to differences point to similarities - instead of criticizing negatives, award positives.
If this is a leadership/character issue (systemic to your school/program) build character lessons into your practice. Force the kids to learn about each other - teach / model & practice the behaviors you believe are important.
If this is a attitude/work ethic issue by a few kids:
-if several kids are "loafing" - pull them out (don't say or do anything) and have them stand next to you while the rest of the team continues to work.
-if individuals are under performing do not play them - send the message.
-promote the hard workers regardless of "ability" - send the message.
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Post by brophy on Apr 24, 2008 7:14:42 GMT -6
4 am run to Gettysburg..........
now, back to reality.
This shouldn't be looked at as a "race" situation - IMO.
Many times the 'gangsta' attitude comes about out of insecurity, as a defense mechanism. I would ask how well you relate / interact / communicate with those players....if these players don't have a comfort level with you established, I'd expect to see more of the difficult personality. Unfortunately, this is alpha male territory.....tip toe around it, and you lose all credibility and respect.....assert too much force and you could lose some kids....but this really has nothing to do with "race", and more to deal with socio-dynamics of different cultural backgrounds.
You can deal with "attitude" and "uncooperation" real quick.....send all the kids in the group on a quick sprint. Do it again.....if any more outbursts arise that day, send the kid home.
Don't feel you can't step in during a situation, remember, YOU ARE THE COACH...you control what happens in practice and on the field. Also respect the way your players relate/communicate as well - they all aren't going to be Gomer Pyles "Yessir!" types, and even though they don't mean it, some kids come off as disrespectful or loafing (when it doesn't look like they are efforting very hard).
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Post by fatkicker on Apr 24, 2008 10:04:32 GMT -6
race topic....gotta be careful with this one....
hey brophy......as i read the letter.....it WASN'T a race issue until the black kid started the name calling......before that it was a football hustle issue.....
we can pretend that it's not about race.....but it is.....many children are programmed from birth to think a certain way....
ask yourself a question.....and be truthful......what would have been the punishment if the white kid was screaming racial vulgarities to the black kid? especially if an administrator or a school board member was listening.....
we all know the answer..............but as the situation occured, i'm sure nothing will come of it........if i had a dollar everytime i was called an ignorant, redneck honky......even though i do like to chase deer, ride my tractor, dip snuff, and drink beer......i'd be a millionaire......i personally don't care what you call me as long as you don't call me late for supper......
i guess we would have to be there to fully understand........do all kids incourage or "get on" each other regularly? does this "team leader" chew on the white kids like the black kids? does the black kid respect the coach or disrespect the coach when the coach speaks to him? do this white kid and black kid have problems in school? maybe they are trying to fight in the halls too.....
with all of this said.....i hope it's a kid on kid issue.....not a black vs. white issue.......those are tough for any coach to get squared away.......
i've had a similar issue in baseball before.........catcher (white kid) and center fielder (black kid)....ground ball up the middle.......cf didn't get to very quickly and the man on 2nd scored....catcher said something like "come on man hurry up!"......the black kid came in cussing gd's, mf's....telling the white kid he was gonna kick his you know......i sent the black kid to the locker room......he's my best player btw.......white kid didn't say a word and sat in the corner......he didn't do anything wrong as best i could tell.....i don't know if they had problems before.....
after the game.....black kid's dad came into baseball office wanted to raise hell about situation....said his kid was being racially picked on........"n "this "n" that.....he wanted to take his son off the team........i swore to him that i'd never heard it......and i still wanted the kid to stay.....plus some punishment running he had to do the next day......
i did tell that dad this.....i don't know if i was right or wrong.....you can be the judge......
i told him that there was no way i could understand racial slurs the way you do......i said but i do know this.....if your son gets mad and gets in a fight every time he gets called a "n" then he's gonna be in jail by the time he's 30.......because he is strong enough and athletic enough to kill somebody if he gets pissed off.......
did i have a point? i don't know.....maybe there was underlying problem there that i missed that i didn't see until the explosion on my baseball field.......what other issues are you having? you said your program is at a pivotal point......
i've rambled enough.....
i wish you luck....it's a tough spot.....
find a way to get 'em pissed off at you instead of pissed off at each other......maybe that would work......
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Post by airman on Apr 24, 2008 12:35:02 GMT -6
gather the team in the weight room or other open space and have a complaint session. people get to stand up and voice their complaints.
as a coach you can complain to. you talk about complaints you have with players as a group. ie not going full out.
you also say towards the end, speak now or for ever hold your your peace.
the person complaining gets to finish their rant before any one talks. all rants are valid and must be listened to.
if a particular player calls another player out, both must stand up and handle the situation. so if a black player calls a white player as racist, then he must in fornt of everyone have a converstation with that player.
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Post by stackboy on Apr 24, 2008 19:57:37 GMT -6
I told my wife I was posting this issue we had because I knew there would be great insight from the guys represented here on this website. Thanks again for all your help.
SB
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Post by tye2021 on Apr 25, 2008 12:11:25 GMT -6
I agree with everyone else about having a session and speaking to the players as a group. The one thing to remember is that it is a team. You practice as a team, you play as a team, you win and lose as a team......you are disciplined as a team!!!!
I was in the army years ago. And while in basic training we had an instance where a soldier used a racial slur towards another soldier. The drill sergeants had a talk with both soldiers together and individually. BUT, we were all disciplined. We were A PLATOON singular. We were all held responsible, good or bad, for what happened within the platoon.
Our flag or banner was covered for a month. Everyday, when we got up, after lunch, every where we went once we reached our destination, after dinner, and before we were dismissed at the end of the day we had to pay for the actions or comments of that one soldier. Because we were 1 platoon, 1 unit, 1 team.
By the end of basic training we were named Honor platoon, won every competition against the other platoons except 3.
If it were me after we held a discussion about it, I would let them know that from that point on. Any thing that I or the staff considered a racial slur, either right there on the spot or at the end of practice or both as a team you owe me! Eventually they'll get the point.
Just my approach. You know your player better than I do whats best for the TEAM!
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tedseay
Sophomore Member
Posts: 165
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Post by tedseay on Apr 26, 2008 6:35:47 GMT -6
I have been involved in coaching for 12 years and today I witnessed a first. A white kid was trying to encourage a black kid during a drill. Black kid snapped back at him saying "don't talk down to me, and talked about his girlfriend and blah blah blah. Racial slurs were used by the black kid and other black kids chimed in every time a white kid was getting on to the black kids for loafing during every drill. The inner problem is that pretty much all the black kids we have are loafing in every drill and are taking a "gangsta" approach to any comments. They do not respect the coaches or anyone else. My question is where do you draw the line and what are some words of wisdom. Firing kids is what some would say......but I am not sure what the best solution is. The future of the program is on shaky ground. Thanks in advance for any comments. Coach: Never forget the immortal Vince Lombardi's contribution to race relations with the Packers in the 60's: "Coach treats us all the same -- like dogs." -- Henry Jordan Even-handed treatment is the only way to go, however "harsh" or "nice" it may be -- it must be consistent, and be seen to be consistent. |
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Post by ufpena on Apr 26, 2008 10:03:49 GMT -6
First things first, the race issue has to be settled in your heart before yoou can settle it with your team. If there is any bigotry in you, it will surely be picked up by your team. Some kids already have a lot of baggage from parents, friends, and atmospheres; they do not ned any more from us. The race problem must be broken in us before they can even have a fair chance to see things more clearly. This goes for favoritism also. What is the difference between both. Nothing! Never the less, once it is settled in us we can more convincingly relate the same sentiment to our athletes.
After it is settled in us, then consistency is the next big issue. Are we going to aid and abet the racial issue by giving that star athlete special treatment therefore causing more division? That is some thing al of us must ponder, realize and alleviate.
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Post by mwpilots on Apr 27, 2008 0:04:18 GMT -6
I probably could write a book on "How to handle the Black Athlete". A lot of times when you have a situation like this what you have is the perception by the Black kids that these white kids or coaches do not "understand" me and therefore in some way,in an effort to be "understood" they are ultra sensitive about everything that is said about them or to them. This does not matter if it is coming from a coach or another player who happens to be White. White players are looked at by Black athletes as an extension of the coach. The Black kids generally feel this way because in their minds all Whites are lumped into one category. In fairness, this sometimes happens the other way around as well and they, Black kids, feel that way also. Example: "All of them White folks think that all Blacks are just lazy......etc." In many situations this is not the case. What it ends up becoming is a self-fulfilling prophecy and therefore an excuse to act out. If you keep saying that White people/coaches/players don't care then you start to believe it. This is also re-inforced at home or in the neighborhoods where the Black athletes live. The thing that you have to do is regarding your situation is to make them realize that everybody has had to struggle or go through rough times in life. Give descriptions of challenging times that you have had as a player or growing up as a teenager in High School. You must find these commonalities and play on them. You need to get them to know that you care about them as a human being first. Have all of your players sit down and have a heart to heart conversation about whatever struggles that they have been through. Things like struggle,heartache,pain,rejection and the like are things that are known to all people regardless of color. They have to understand that you know "bad times" in order to get the Black kids where you want them.
"It doesn't matter how much you know until they know how much you care"
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Post by 1ispread on Apr 28, 2008 12:53:44 GMT -6
Im wondering in what manner the white player was 'encouraging' the black player? Was it "we can do it together" or "get your sorry a-- in gear"? What was the reason the white players & not the coaches were having to get on to the black players for loafing during the drills? Was it an off season 'voluntary' workout that coaches were not allowed to supervise? A
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Post by Coach JR on Apr 28, 2008 15:06:03 GMT -6
I have been involved in coaching for 12 years and today I witnessed a first. A white kid was trying to encourage a black kid during a drill. Black kid snapped back at him saying "don't talk down to me, and talked about his girlfriend and blah blah blah. Racial slurs were used by the black kid and other black kids chimed in every time a white kid was getting on to the black kids for loafing during every drill. The inner problem is that pretty much all the black kids we have are loafing in every drill and are taking a "gangsta" approach to any comments. They do not respect the coaches or anyone else. My question is where do you draw the line and what are some words of wisdom. Firing kids is what some would say......but I am not sure what the best solution is. The future of the program is on shaky ground. Thanks in advance for any comments. I'll trust your judgement that you have some racial tension on the team. And as you describe it, it's definately a black vs. white issue. I would suggest to you that something has been going on to cause the black kids to be constantly loafing and lashing out at white kids. I'd ask you to first look at yourself to be sure you haven't fostered anything unwittingly that makes the black kids feel like they're second rate on the team. With some notable exceptions, most kids playing football understand it's a teams sport and that they have to work together. Lockerroom "cancers" are the exception rather than the rule. So if you have all your black kids acting like cancers, I'd find out why. I doubt it's all just because they really are gangster thugs with attitude. Also know that it may be something in the community away from football that may be tough for you to deal with. Good luck...race is a tough issue to deal with at times. One bit of advice I'd offer is to not dance around it. Let them know that you recognize there's racial tension, BUT BE DAMN SURE YOU DON'T POINT THE FINGER AT EITHER SIDE AS BEING AT FAULT. JUST LET THEM KNOW YOU INTEND TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S COMFORTABLE FOR BOTH BLACKS AND WHITES TO BE IN YOUR PROGRAM. |
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Post by RENO6 on Apr 29, 2008 12:43:40 GMT -6
I'v been a white head coach at an inner city school for two years now. I've never seen so much racism in my life and it is geared towards whites. As coaches, there is nothing you can do about it. If you're focused on race so will the kids.
Focus on if every kid (white or black) is giving his all to get better?
If he's not, he doesn't play. End of story. No matter how good he is. Are you trying to build a program or W.I.N (What's Important Now)? You can run them to death, but the attitude of the society will not change because you're running them.
Make sure the kids know you care about them but also make sure they know that they have to be a team player in order to play on the team.
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Post by schultbear74 on Apr 29, 2008 12:59:32 GMT -6
The culture we have at our school is similar to an inner city. The race issue is a struggle. I'm glad that my son has an opportunity to deal with it. I hope it makes him stronger
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Post by brophy on Apr 29, 2008 13:43:13 GMT -6
I've been thinking about this for a while. I just am trying to sell myself on the whole race thing.
Is it REALLY a "race" (skin color) issue, or is this a maturity/culture/attitude issue?
Honestly, I'm trying to understand how we differentiate this stuff.
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Post by Coach JR on Apr 29, 2008 14:33:36 GMT -6
I've been thinking about this for a while. I just am trying to sell myself on the whole race thing. Is it REALLY a "race" (skin color) issue, or is this a maturity/culture/attitude issue? Honestly, I'm trying to understand how we differentiate this stuff. Brophy, I think you're right on this. I think racism today is really culturalism. But the dividing line still is black vs white whether it's about skin color or white culture vs black culture. Honestly though, I don't know that you can differentiate them. |
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Post by brophy on Apr 29, 2008 15:13:12 GMT -6
I've been thinking about this for a while. I just am trying to sell myself on the whole race thing. Is it REALLY a "race" (skin color) issue, or is this a maturity/culture/attitude issue? Honestly, I'm trying to understand how we differentiate this stuff. Brophy, I think you're right on this. I think racism today is really culturalism. But the dividing line still is black vs white whether it's about skin color or white culture vs black culture. Honestly though, I don't know that you can differentiate them. not to come off on a 'high road' tangent here, but isn't the whole "black" / "white" concept a little silly and outdated, though? I don't mean that from a pc standpoint, but aren't we enabling the silly division even more by making special concessions for behavior (or perception) based on classifying people based on their pigmentation? If a guy is acting like a knucklehead....he's acting like a knucklehead. What does the color of their skin or physical features really, in the grand scheme of the argument, have to do with anything? I'm probably misguided. I've worked in various programs where the "cultural mix" isn't homogenous.....it only matters if you make it matter. How much does it really have to matter? Some kids respond / gravitate to an aggressive, in-your-face leader. ....and will bark and bark to see if that guy is worth following Some kids respond / gravitate to a laid back, nuturing guy... ....and will be quick to quip the "yessirs" for any praise it all depends on how those kids are brought up at home, in the community. I just don't know how much trying to classify this or that as "black" and this is "white" and lets embrace the good of both distinct differences and sing " we shall overcome".....for what? People are people. I don't have to LIKE you, to play with you. You don't have to be my friend or my buddy, or my best-man.....but if you are going to play on my team, I'd better be able to respect your toughness (and vis versa). I don't know....I'm not even suggesting I have a 'different' answer than those listed above....this issue just doesn't strike me as being "racial", for whatever that means. |
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Post by RENO6 on Apr 29, 2008 19:35:18 GMT -6
Nice reply Brophy.
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Post by brophy on Apr 29, 2008 19:36:09 GMT -6
[img src="http://www.muchos.co.uk/members/bigbubba/ {censored}-you-cracka.jpg"] |
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Post by RENO6 on Apr 29, 2008 19:45:11 GMT -6
?
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Post by Coach JR on Apr 30, 2008 5:11:21 GMT -6
brophy,
I'm laughin at that pic! As to your post, I think I get what you're saying. Just to clarify though, you're not saying that there aren't distinct differences in black culture and white culture are you? I mean even black folks will tell you there are differences. But you're right on in that you can create an environment where the team members forget that, set it aside, or even learn to embrace the other's culture, and work as a team. Just because you have a "mix" doesn't mean any issues will crop up, but when they do, it takes a strong leader to do as you suggest and make the cultural differences "not be an issue". To say they don't exist, or cant be an issue, I think is ignoring the obvious. I'll offer this though, that my take could be a product of my life experiences, which comes from growing up in a suburb of Birmingham, AL. I attended a HS from '79-'83 where the only black folks were bussed in from the other side of town. As sophmore in HS we won the 4-A (largest class) State Championship, beating an all black inner city team. On that championship team was 1 black player. His nickname was "only". After that I was thrown in to the real world. UAB for college right slam in the middle of downtown Birmingham. I learned a lot about race, but some of what I learned was wrong early on. I learned more in the military, more that was right. I later policed that same lilly white community I grew up in. I had one black co-worker. He remains a close friend of mine today, and I'd trust my life with him watching my back. Today I work in Selma, AL. The epicenter of the civil rights movement. My boss is black. He's the first and only black to hold the office he holds in AL. I have black and white co-workers, on my level, and that work assisting me and those on my level. I get along with them well, I respect them all regardless of race, and I think we all get along very well. But, race isn't something that's ignored. It can't be doing what we do where we do it. It's acknowledged, it's just not a problem. I can't speak to coaching where there's a "mix". The voluteer pee-wee coaching I've done were all white teams. And the ages I helped coach, I don't think race comes in to play. So with that, I admit that my life experiences are uniquely southern, and maybe not the same as those in other parts of the country. I just see that race/cultural differences, though they can't always be ignored in my opinion, it doesn't have to be a negative issue, or even an issue at all.
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Post by brophy on Apr 30, 2008 5:42:18 GMT -6
Just to clarify though, you're not saying that there aren't distinct differences in black culture and white culture are you? actually, yes I am culture is culture......and it isn't based on your skin color. It really isn't much different than saying, "yeah, well ALL Bears fans act like.....". Because the only criteria for classification is if they like the Bears fans and discounts all the other factors that contribute to their make up.
Quit acting 'black' and get with it......well, just what the hell does that even mean? Quit acting 'white' and get with it....We know what you mean, but these are attributes that have absolutely nothing to do with your genetics or your skin hue. The stereotypcial connotations that each of those statements make are actually short-sighted biases.....so why do we continue to perpetuate them when they actually have no factual backing? "I have a friend that is black, so I completely understand..."Are we talking about Leukemia here, or just regular human beings who may have a different hue in their skin? Even if the kids above used the term, "Cracka" or some other language directed towards each other.....those are just words. Words used to express frustration / anger, and not much different than calling a woman by a different name. All I'm saying is by continuing to think that there is a difference in human worth because someone is paler than me, or has a darker shade than me, just continues to dehumanize each other. maybe I'm completely wrong, but the whole thing comes off as petty and immature, to believe that these darn "black kids" are ruining practice or there is a political issue among 17 year old boys..... My point? I guess I'm kinda fed up with the whole "race" thing. The folks on 120th street act different than the people in Willow Crest.....that makes sense, but to make me believe that those people are like that because someone does or does not have a tan is just retarded. What "race" are ANY of us? You'll probably find out that most of us are just a hodge podge of a bunch of different DNA stew, unless you live on a Latter Day Saints farm. The whole concept is a little overboard, IMO. Now, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and as usual, I may be way off base. But, what "race" is my son?  I look at him every day and can't help but see that he is a spitting image of myself. Acts like me (oh,brother!), talks like me, looks like me (at that age)....just a much better tan. So, should I be waiting around some day for the "black gene" to rise up and make him act a certain way? Does that make him genetically superior/inferior all of a sudden? All I'm saying, is most folks don't fit into cute little boxes for classfication, and the least of all the defining qualities is your skin tone. |
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Apr 30, 2008 6:01:48 GMT -6
I have been involved in coaching for 12 years and today I witnessed a first. A white kid was trying to encourage a black kid during a drill. Black kid snapped back at him saying "don't talk down to me, and talked about his girlfriend and blah blah blah. Racial slurs were used by the black kid and other black kids chimed in every time a white kid was getting on to the black kids for loafing during every drill. The inner problem is that pretty much all the black kids we have are loafing in every drill and are taking a "gangsta" approach to any comments. They do not respect the coaches or anyone else. My question is where do you draw the line and what are some words of wisdom. Firing kids is what some would say......but I am not sure what the best solution is. The future of the program is on shaky ground. Thanks in advance for any comments. I think this will be a tough issue to handle- First off- address the problem loud and clear- bring it front and center to the kids and the parents. Silence allows this cancer to spread- don't ignore it or keep it hush-hush, it won't just go away. It is crucial that you address parents- they're most likely in need of character education too. This probably stems from their culture at home- if mom and dad call people niggers, spics, and crackers then the kid will do it too. For those 2-3 hours a day that they're under your control, encourage them to break the habit. I flip out when someone calls someone else a racial slur- even if it's white-on-white, black-on-black and /or in a friendly tone. Do not accept anything less than complete tolerance- just like you wouldn't accept a half-assed effort in a drill. Let them know that there will be no room for ignorance on your team. If they cannot set aside these stupid differences, then they need to concentrate their efforts on being a better person-not a better football player. Finally, stick to your guns- don't let one slip by- punish as needed Consider yourself lucky that you're popping your cherry 12 years into coaching- I popped mine year 2. Good luck coach and let us know how it pans out |
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Post by Coach JR on Apr 30, 2008 6:33:14 GMT -6
"All I'm saying is by continuing to think that there is a difference in human worth because someone is paler than me, or has a darker shade than me, just continues to dehumanize each other."Ah, you misunderstood what I said. In no way am I saying that one race is better than the other, or that one culture is better than the other, but only that they're different. And like I said, my veiws are based on my uniquely southern experiences. Where I work and live, it's still largely segregated, but by choice rather than by force. Thus the cultural differences are seen as black culture and white culture. Which is not to say that one is better than the other. Black doesn't equal thug, any more than White equals KKK. My secretary just the other day said she was going to a funeral on sunday...she said her uncle had died LAST weekend. I said LAST weekend? She smiled at me, and laughed, and said "you know us black folk don't put 'em in the ground right away, we let everybody visit with them for a while, then when we bury 'em, we gonna have a sho' nuff throw down with all kinds of food." She acknowledged it as a black cultural difference. Who am I to argue that isn't a black cultural thing, when a black person I know and love says it is? "So, should I be waiting around some day for the "black gene" to rise up and make him act a certain way? Does that make him genetically superior/inferior all of a sudden?"How you act is a product of your raising, not your race. Like I said, Black doesn't equal Thug or Super Athlete any more than White equals KKK or Pocket Passer QB. Obviously your son is the product of a mixed race union. (a good lookin' kid too) You appear to be white.  What race does he claim? What race does his mother claim? Maybe you and his mother choose to raise him in an environment that doesn't acknowledge race or any particular culture associated with black or white. Hopefully you live in a place where if you do that, the people around him will support that, and not undermine it. Does his mother deny any differences in black culture? I think I understand better why you feel the way you do too. Look, I acknowledge that where I am from may make my view different. I'm going to discuss this with my secretary today and see what she thinks. I may be off base. I have been before.
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Post by brophy on Apr 30, 2008 7:25:35 GMT -6
How you act is a product of your raising, not your race. That was the only point I was making What race does he claim? What race does his mother claim? the bottom line.......what does it even matter? That is the point. Do you HAVE to have a favorite NFL team to be a "football fan"? I understand the AA/EOE needs of classification, but "race" classifications and the NEED to distinguish just seems overvalued. This is a discussion meant to address the issues stackboy raised in a coaching milieu. This is not intended to be a you-me discussion about irrelevant issues. I only brought up analogous references to provide insight to a belief / question. Lets say a team decides to do a "Soulja boy" Haka for pregame.....your minority white kids say, "No way...We ain't gonna do it, because y'know....white guys just can't dance". Well, that is just retarded and based on rhetorical beliefs passed as fundamental truths to support division. Is it REALLY a black/white issue, or is perceived to be a black/white issue because of the APPEARANCE of players and the culture clash of attitudes? The attitudes are based on how you are raised and your "reality" in personal communications. There is nothing black or white about it. Do you HAVE to take sides? |
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Post by Coach JR on Apr 30, 2008 9:01:17 GMT -6
This is a discussion meant to address the issues stackboy raised in a coaching milieu. This is not intended to be a you-me discussion about irrelevant issues. I only brought up analogous references to provide insight to a belief / question. In the spirit of that, I'll leave it at that. I will say that I think we agree on more than you think we do, but in this medium it's difficult to express. |
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Post by 1ispread on Apr 30, 2008 12:57:07 GMT -6
I find it amazing that only the black players were loafing, only the black players were making racial slurs. By the way you never told us if the enforcer of team disipline (the white guy(s) that had to get on to the black players for loafing) ever had to get on to any white players for loafing and if they did what was the white players response?
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Post by los on Apr 30, 2008 20:52:58 GMT -6
I kinda find that amazing too....1ispread.......I'd be interested in the "overall " racial make-up of this team and coaching staff as well.....and maybe what kind of enviroment the majority of team come from? Last time I checked.....American's come from a bunch a of different cultures and live in a wide variety of social enviroments....thats what makes it "tough" for us to get along sometimes.....but this cultural/ethnic diversity, also enhances and enrichens us.....kinda like this football team here.....like dcohio, Brophy and others already said.....seem's like a "respect" issue, more than anything.....they apparently don't like each other all that much.....are losing respect for each other.......and aren't mature enough, to understand.....they need to "at least ", respect each other as football players, to remain a solvent team and work together......so what do you do?......let everyone fight it out(like = West side story, lol...might be too old for you guys)......kick anyone who speaks out off the team, causing alienation thru out the school?......ignore it, hope it goes away......or get the team together(at least the vocal/outspoken players).....and discuss this "respect" problem like "mature" young adults....those that don't want to participate = automatic adios.....by the way.....we go thru this same stuff at work.....the young folks, I work with(our team), are the same way....."they give you the best job, cause you're white"......"if I did that, they'd fire me, you get away with it cause you're black"......"ya'll are being easy on her cause she's a girl"......"you always give him Saturday off, cause he's black"....."how come that old guy makes more than us, we work just as hard"......."he doesn't know what he's doing, but makes the same as me".......blah blah blah....you get the idea....they have a meeting once a month.....they "all" get to gripe, complain, make suggestions to improve the service/or enviroment......beg for more money, etc...our "coach"/manager listens attentively.....offers any constructive, positive, concessions he can......without jeapordizing the entire "program"/business.....and in turn, gets something from them.....in terms of quality/speed of work.....punctuality....cooperation...etc...after this, they get along great for 3-4 weeks.....then back at it.......just in time for the next monthly meeting, lol.....sorry for the long post....stackboy....hope this helps.......at least to let ya'll know.....everyone has problems  |
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What race does he claim? What race does his mother claim? Maybe you and his mother choose to raise him in an environment that doesn't acknowledge race or any particular culture associated with black or white. Hopefully you live in a place where if you do that, the people around him will support that, and not undermine it. Does his mother deny any differences in black culture? I think I understand better why you feel the way you do too. 