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Post by brophy on Mar 28, 2007 19:57:09 GMT -6
so where is this school in relation to omaha? what is it like to live in nebraska? I was a big red fan for many years since I was a option qb. however I met up with gary crowton and then I saw what la tech pass offense did to nebraska defense. not much of a game but it sure woke a lot of people up. Tim Rattay and Troy Edwards single-handledly turned the Blackshirts sideways.........ouch! One could argue that you don't need anymore proof than that Eddie Robinson Classic game to show that the "spread needs great athletes". That was actually during a season when NU still had GREAT athletes on defense. Coming from the MidWest, I've seen TONS of HS games with 0 passing attempts, NONE, and still come away with losses (wing-t teams). It is not uncommon from that neck of the woods. If you can pass the ball with any proficiency there, you are looked at as a "pro" offense.
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Post by airman on Mar 28, 2007 20:22:27 GMT -6
talked with gary crowton about that day. edwards was a high school running back converted to wr. it is why he was so good on the spot or hitch screen and middle screen.
what hurt them that day is their 2nd wr and top te were both hurt. the te broke his hand in warmups and could not go. the 4th team qb, who was going to move to te, had to play in some key times at te. it hurt them. the kid went on to be a good te however.
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bhb
Junior Member
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Post by bhb on Mar 28, 2007 20:48:59 GMT -6
Here in Nebraska Millard North ( Eric Crouch's old school) often has games with zero rushing attempts. My guess at least 4-5 games per year. Option team they run it every way imagineable. . I think this is the mistake they were joking with you about Dave.. I must admit an option team with "zero rushing attempts" had me scratching my head as well..;-)
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Mar 28, 2007 23:23:54 GMT -6
so where is this school in relation to omaha? Millard basically IS Omaha. West annex/suburb or the city.
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Post by coachcalande on Mar 29, 2007 6:09:42 GMT -6
Now that is one heck of an offense, 500+ yards of rushing with zero rushing attempts. Can I see the playbook? I can show you video of a game where we rushed for 471 yards and had 0 passing attempts. There are actually a few clips of the game posted on _ I can show you video of a game where our fullback had 302 yards and FIVE TDS....IN ONE HALF!!! and we had 0 passing yards. (we did pass on a two point conversion attempt) anyhow, yeah, why pass if they cant stop the run?
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tedseay
Sophomore Member
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Post by tedseay on Mar 29, 2007 6:19:03 GMT -6
Do whatever blows your hair back, men! Outstanding post, coach. I could not agree more.
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tedseay
Sophomore Member
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Post by tedseay on Mar 29, 2007 6:20:52 GMT -6
so here is a offesne we can all agree on, you run 50% AND you pass 50%. so one should run the geo southern triple option set and combine mouse davis runs and shoot. oh would it be nice, however it is not easy and if it could be done, some one would have done it by now. Airman: It has been done, and very successfully, BUT -- the coaches that have done it have required testicles of steel, because they were and are treated like heretics by both the flexbone and the R&S camps... ;D
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Post by brophy on Mar 29, 2007 7:30:11 GMT -6
As to Edwards and Ratay, it's probably pretty rare to have 2 NFL guys on the same team at QB and reciever, the odds would be off the charts. I think back at all the games Ive ever seen NU play and can think of maybe 2-3 out of 300+ that a legit NFL QB was throwing to an NFL reciever, thats something to think about as well. Rattay & Edwards did WHAT in the NFL? Who were the other studs on the Bulldogs? OSU, USC, Texas, Florida, FSU, Michigan and any other top 20 NCAA program routinely boast that distinction, from where I sit. I guess the point is, Edwards & Rattay were the only players, literally that McBride had to stop that day. With Mike Brown, Erwin Swiney, Ralph Brown, Carlos Polk, Jay Foreman, Scott Shanle, Julius Jackson, Steve Warren, Kyle VandenBosch, Chris Kelsay, and Tony Ortiz on defense, Tech was severely out-gunned but the screens (long-hand offs) kept them competitive. It would've been the typical NU opener of 93-3 had they faced a team that would've tried to go pound-for-pound running the ball against guys like Dan Alexander, DeAngelo Evans, and Correll Buckhalter. I'm sure you could make a case against spread from the year before (as I remember) when Frazier & Co laid the wood to Florida (but Spurrier was a lot more vertical than the typical spread team).
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CoachJ
Junior Member
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Post by CoachJ on Mar 29, 2007 9:51:47 GMT -6
But most college top 20 teams have NFL QBs AND recievers on them at the same time? Im afraid The numbers just dont add up very well. I happened to see the NU game with Louisiana Tech. NU really did take it to them that day, despite the fact the Troy Edwards did have a great day. NU hasn't really played against too many top tier QBs. There schedules usually don't have to many NFL QBs on them. In 2003 vs. Texas- Vince Young (NFL starter), threw to Roy Williams (NFL Starter) against UNL. In 2001 vs. Miami-Ken Dorsey (NFL QB) threw to Andre Johnson (NFL WR) That is all in recent history I can remember vs. UNL
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CoachJ
Junior Member
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Post by CoachJ on Mar 29, 2007 9:56:28 GMT -6
Here in Nebraska Millard North ( Eric Crouch's old school) often has games with zero rushing attempts. My guess at least 4-5 games per year. Option team they run it every way imagineable. They also often have in excess of 500 yards rushing. They are always in the hunt and I think have won several state titles in the last several years as well as a few near misses. In fairness, Millard North is equipped with all the advantages. Great school, lots of kids. Millard North also routinely sends players D1. That place is a factory for D1 talent in a place (Nebraska) that doesn't produce and abundance of D1 talent. Definitely a place that has athletes to spare. They could run just about anything they want to on anyone they want to. With Eric Crouch, Judd Davies, Seth Olson, Jeff Tarpinian, Adam Shada, Todd Doxon, Corey Young, Paul Homer, etc, etc. They just line up with tremendous talent every year and out athlete people.
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Post by brophy on Mar 29, 2007 9:58:49 GMT -6
Dave, you totally kicked my a55, sorry for bringing it up. I'll quit posting now and start coaching girls golf.
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Post by jhanawa on Mar 29, 2007 10:25:48 GMT -6
Brophy, gotta love a little cow paddy pool.
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bhb
Junior Member
Posts: 259
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Post by bhb on Mar 29, 2007 10:28:50 GMT -6
jhanawa,
I don't know what's scarier- the fact that you have a picture of Natalie Gulbis on your 'puter, or the fact that I know who she is..LOL.. she's hot..
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Post by CVBears on Mar 29, 2007 10:31:13 GMT -6
I still want to know how one can rush the ball for over 500 yards without ever attempting to rush the ball
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bhb
Junior Member
Posts: 259
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Post by bhb on Mar 29, 2007 10:33:15 GMT -6
I still want to know how one can rush the ball for over 500 yards without ever attempting to rush the ball In an option offense, no less..;-)
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Post by jhanawa on Mar 29, 2007 10:36:57 GMT -6
Well, she wasn't on my "puter" till a few minutes ago, I thought I'd reply with a picture to Brophy because he is the master of picture inserting to finish off a sentence...And, IMO, its not a bad picture, better looking than Charlie Weiss (IR's avatar) for sure...LOL....She is however slightly off balance and leaning too far forward though, probably spun out and sliced that one...
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Post by brophy on Mar 29, 2007 11:09:56 GMT -6
The facts are no teams play agains NFL QBs on them becasue there are just a handfull, a tiny tiny handfull that are taken in the draft every year or even a tinier handfull making it as a free agents. That means that there just arent many of them hence no one plays against very many. I'm a little slow, but WHERE do these NFL QBs & WRs come from if they don't come from the NCAA? Or are we just limiting our frame of reference to the Huskers? Speaking of the Huskers, during their dominance and then decline (because of recruiting), how were the other BigXII teams able to balance the scales of competition? (Oklahoma, Missouri, Kansas State, Colorado, Texas, Texas Tech, Iowa State, etc)?
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CoachJ
Junior Member
Posts: 307
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Post by CoachJ on Mar 29, 2007 11:23:14 GMT -6
In fairness, Millard North is equipped with all the advantages. Great school, lots of kids. Millard North also routinely sends players D1. That place is a factory for D1 talent in a place (Nebraska) that doesn't produce and abundance of D1 talent. Definitely a place that has athletes to spare. They could run just about anything they want to on anyone they want to. With Eric Crouch, Judd Davies, Seth Olson, Jeff Tarpinian, Adam Shada, Todd Doxon, Corey Young, Paul Homer, etc, etc. They just line up with tremendous talent every year and out athlete people. In all fairness Millard West and South are really much nicer facilites and have similar numbers of kids in school and out for ball ( over 250) but for whatever reason dont put up the same numbers or have the same # of DI kids. I didnt realize Doxon went to MN. Yes last year with yet another State title I think MN averaged about 50 ppg. In Omaha they call em Millard University LOL . Actually Kearney won the state title last year. Millard North lost in the semi-finals and were beaten soundly by Millard South in the regular season. But yes, Millard North is a great team and do prove your points.
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Post by Coach Huey on Mar 29, 2007 12:05:44 GMT -6
just off the top of my head:
peyton manning / peerless price (tennessee) jim? sorgi / lee evans (wisconsin) ... maybe even chris chambers, not sure if all 3 there at same time chris simms / roy williams (texas) ken dorsey / roscoe parrish (miami) matt leinhart / several ... lol (usc), the kid that missed a year, then went pro - smith?. the big tall kid - jarret?
it is not uncommon. now, if you are meaning in the SAME year ... as in, they both drafted same year, that is different. but, it is not uncommon for a qb to be taken in 04, and the next year the wr is taken.
but, i got a feeling i will be "proven" wrong
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Post by brophy on Mar 29, 2007 12:10:36 GMT -6
"_______________"
anyone care to disagree with this statement?
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Post by Coach Huey on Mar 29, 2007 12:15:01 GMT -6
again, dave, you are right.
guess, this thread is done.
next?
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Post by Coach Huey on Mar 29, 2007 12:17:47 GMT -6
"_______________" anyone care to disagree with this statement? give it a few minutes ... it'll happen
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bhb
Junior Member
Posts: 259
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Post by bhb on Mar 29, 2007 12:23:19 GMT -6
"_______________" anyone care to disagree with this statement? LMAO.. If I were a betting man..........
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CoachJ
Junior Member
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Post by CoachJ on Mar 29, 2007 13:42:59 GMT -6
My mistake, didnt Millard North score 70 on Bellevue West in the playoffs and win it all in 2005 then? Like brophy and his NU example I had my years mixed up LOL. Thats what happens when you move out of Omaha and have to read the Lincoln Papers LOL. I do remember them losing to Millard South by 2 TDs I think in their first or second game of the year. Its no problem. Millard North is annually competitive and right there. So your point is still true. They also do crush some teams every year.
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Post by coachsky on Mar 29, 2007 13:49:07 GMT -6
"_______________" anyone care to disagree with this statement? I think there is an extra space at the end of the line and the quotation mark at the end. I think you are trying to make an underhanded attack on line splits. It simply shows your prejudice. Not a true pounder are ya.
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CoachJ
Junior Member
Posts: 307
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Post by CoachJ on Mar 29, 2007 13:51:11 GMT -6
I happened to see the NU game with Louisiana Tech. NU really did take it to them that day, despite the fact the Troy Edwards did have a great day. NU hasn't really played against too many top tier QBs. There schedules usually don't have to many NFL QBs on them. In 2003 vs. Texas- Vince Young (NFL starter), threw to Roy Williams (NFL Starter) against UNL. In 2001 vs. Miami-Ken Dorsey (NFL QB) threw to Andre Johnson (NFL WR) That is all in recent history I can remember vs. UNL Well thats just 2 and the premise was that most top 20 teams have that kind of tandem in place. Ive followed NU football long before that and seen them play everyone, that hs not been my observation. Since just the LaTEch game since that is your frame of reference they have played plenty of teams that throw the ball and have NFL quality QBs; Cal, Notre Dame, Washington, USC, Iowa, Miami, Penn State, Southern Miss, Arizona State, Pitt, Tennesse, Arizona, Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and even Colorado to name a few. Texas mind you has a top 3 recruiting class every year. The facts are no teams play agains NFL QBs on them becasue there are just a handfull, a tiny tiny handfull that are taken in the draft every year or even a tinier handfull making it as a free agents. That means that there just arent many of them hence no one plays against very many. Those teams are good, but I am not sure about if they had NFL QBs at the time Nebraska played them. Timing is more important than just a name. I know Arizona State had Jake Plummer, Tennesee had Peyton Manning, Miami had Dorsey, Texas had Vince Young. Every year about 13-15 new QBs get an NFL shot and about 8 or so hang on for more than 1 year.
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CoachJ
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Post by CoachJ on Mar 29, 2007 13:55:32 GMT -6
((((OSU, USC, Texas, Florida, FSU, Michigan and any other top 20 NCAA program routinely boast that distinction, from where I sit)). I was responding to this statement, whereas this situation is not common or "routine" amoung Top 20 NCAA teams when the facts are very few QBs are drafted each year even if the following year the WR gets drafted. Lets just count the number of QBs drafted in this years draft and see for ourselves shall we. I know when Ive got the facts on my side the cartoons and other things are close behind LOL. Thanks to Google, we don't have to guess: www.nfl.com/draft/history/positions/QBThat doesn't include PFA's that get signed and go to camps. I didn't do an indepth analysis, but it appears somewhere between 13-15 each year with low of 10 and high of 17.
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CoachJ
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Posts: 307
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Post by CoachJ on Mar 29, 2007 14:43:10 GMT -6
Of the QBs takens last year just 3 of those guys had Wideouts that were from the same team drafted in the last 2 years 2005 and 2006. I doubt of these QBs and Wideouts that they all even made their respective teams. Hence it is not "routine" that most college top 20 teams would have NFL caliber QB/Reciever tandems on their respective teams. Therefore will stand by my Rattay/Edwards in the NFL for running on 8 years now is a freaks of nature type coincidence. This is true, but what about crazy teams like Purdue, Texas Tech, Hawaii, etc. that can throw and move the ball on anyone. Most of the really top teams both run and pass very well. Not too many top teams are run only or pass only teams.
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Post by wingt74 on Mar 29, 2007 14:50:08 GMT -6
The running game relies heavily on the RB. The worst team with a superstar RB has a better chance than the worst team with a great throwing QB? Why? Cause to throw the football well, you need two good atheletes with specialized skills (one to throw, one to catch). To run the ball, you need a fast kid. What are your chances of having two good athelets who can run, throw/catch or one athelete who can run? pretty simple. Not sure why this thread is 6 pages
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Post by brophy on Mar 29, 2007 14:53:34 GMT -6
okay, so let me get this straight.....we've gone two pages debating the near embarassment of the Huskers defense over a decade ago as the fulcrum against some run game logic? And the crux of this debate is based on proving that the vaunted La Tech program had a phenomenal anomaly of an NFL QB & WR? I'm sure I'm proving this correct by posting the draftees since 2003 - 2006 (a recruiting class span) of the major DI NCAA programs Since 2003, these are the number of players by position per school and I think we've gone as far as this thread is going to go.....
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