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Post by brophy on Mar 28, 2008 14:02:08 GMT -6
like morris said, the crux of this discussion is not about the play per se, but per play efficiency and the ratio of plays practiced for the game plan.
Are you able to game plan / play-call to GET explosives during a drive consistently?
If not, then you may need to re-examine the approach prior to the next competition, how much you rep the counter-attack / target-of-opportunity, and how/when it is utilized in the course of the next game.
If you believe you can run power 80% of the time on the next opponent for consistent gains.......practice power 40% of the time in practice.....but only get a 5% return on it in the game, something needs to change.
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Post by morris on Mar 28, 2008 15:30:30 GMT -6
From "Developing an Offensive Game Plan" Brian Billick pg 11
Explosive plays are measured int he NFL as gains of 20 yards or more. A more detailed analysis shows a more valid measuring being runs of 12 yards or more and passes of 16 yards or more. these levels of production proved to be moresignificant as to what is needed to constitue and gain the effects of an "explosion". the 1994 and '95 NFL seasons were the first in a dozen years that explosions carried a higher winning ratio than did turnovers. This measurement showed that teams with a +2 or greater advantage won the game between 80-80% of the time. The significant thing about explosives is that they do not necessarily need to lead to a score to be productive. Huge changes of field position can also positively change the profile of a game. this measurement, like turnovers, is an interactive measurable because a team's effectiveness in this area can be diminshed if your defense is giving up explosives at the same rate as the offense is gaining them.
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Post by coachmcgrath on Mar 28, 2008 15:47:05 GMT -6
We have many TDs on or setup by big plays... and we have many TD drives without big plays...
I will say, that without a doubt, I would never get the big plays in our offense without a consistent power running game. Our powers set up our passing and counters... which usually end up being big plays.
If we went for the big plays all the time they wouldn't end up being big plays... they'd be interceptions and stops in the backfield for losses.
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Post by rip60zgo on Mar 28, 2008 16:33:20 GMT -6
It just is a lot harder to score if you are a running oriented team and you don't have a back who can take it the distance from time to time. Amen. I am a much better play caller when I have kids who can tip the field on any given play. It always makes me laugh when the slot catches a 5 yard route, splits 2 defenders, makes a safety miss, takes it 60 yards for the score and someone (straight-faced) slaps me on the back and says, "great call".
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Post by khalfie on Mar 28, 2008 19:46:03 GMT -6
DC
Outstanding post...
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Post by phatac18 on Mar 28, 2008 21:15:51 GMT -6
From "Developing an Offensive Game Plan" Brian Billick pg 11 Huge changes of field position can also positively change the profile of a game. this measurement, like turnovers, is an interactive measurable because a team's effectiveness in this area can be diminished if your defense is giving up explosives at the same rate as the offense is gaining them. This would bring a whole other question. if the defense gives you a short field to work with, would that constitute as a "big play" offensively? and wouldn't that mess up the stats that Billick explores in the book in terms of scoring because of "big plays offensively" rather than big plays from the whole (special teams/ defense/offense) that contribute towards scoring.
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billyn
Sophomore Member
Posts: 231
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Post by billyn on Mar 28, 2008 22:32:32 GMT -6
I think we can make this all really simple. If you don't have a running back that can break long gainers or you don't have a receiver that can take a short pass and make a long gainer out of it, then you better have a way to throw the ball over the top of the defense. Otherwise you're probably not going to be scoring a lot of touchdowns.
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Post by phantom on Mar 29, 2008 9:17:16 GMT -6
From "Developing an Offensive Game Plan" Brian Billick pg 11 Huge changes of field position can also positively change the profile of a game. this measurement, like turnovers, is an interactive measurable because a team's effectiveness in this area can be diminished if your defense is giving up explosives at the same rate as the offense is gaining them. This would bring a whole other question. if the defense gives you a short field to work with, would that constitute as a "big play" offensively? and wouldn't that mess up the stats that Billick explores in the book in terms of scoring because of "big plays offensively" rather than big plays from the whole (special teams/ defense/offense) that contribute towards scoring. I would agree that if an offense starts with a short field, either by a defensive takeaway or a play in STs, that wouild be defined as a big play and would skew the stats when analyzing drives. For purposes of this discussion I'd consider a "drive" to be one of 60 yards or more. With that in mind I agree with Dubber. Between evenly matched teams it's hard to consistently make drives of 60 or more yards without some of it in a big chunk. Oh, we've done it and have had it done to us but it's not going to happen often. As a DC I depend on that premise. If an offense can't get a big play-and it doesn't have to be a "home run" just a field-position changer- somewhere along the line they're going to be punting a lot. A running offense can and must have ways to manufacture big plays without doing something out of character. PA is the most obvious answer. Just don't wait until 3rd and 8 to run it. When Dee Dowis, who nobody ever got confused with John Elway, was the QB at Air Force they led the NCAA in Yards Per Pass Attempt. Running the option is another way. You don't have to major in it but forcing the defense to play assignment football and make a tackle in space does put you in position to make a big play. Slow QB? So what? Remember, we're talking about 10 yard runs not home runs. Anyway, that's my long-winded way of saying that I agree with Dub.
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Post by khalfie on Mar 29, 2008 10:32:20 GMT -6
This has been fun...
But here's my final summation:
For the record, my position on this debate, is that the "Big Play" philosophy is inconsequential. Every coach, within their game planning facilitates home run opportunites. For those that script, 2nd and 1 is universally, a home run down. Coaches have their low percentage high reward plays, and use them, when the probable failure of the play doesn't have big ramifications.
More so, football is so much more than offense. Defense, special teams, field position, all play a paramount role in a teams ability to score. Teams have won games without scoring a point on offense.
Big plays are good, good teams see them more often than bad teams, but to act as if, 70 yard drives are the norm, or even 17+ plays are a reality is ridiculous. When teams score, its usually due to field position. Field position is mostly a result of defense and special teams.
Therefore, all this offensive talk about generating plays of 20+ yards is non-sensical. The plays a team utilizes are created to move the ball. Not to move the ball only 3 yards, or 5 yards, but to get all of the yard, to score, however, coaches would be foolish to not be content with a 5 yard gain.
To think that you can't be successful averaging 5 yards, even 3 yards per play, is ridiculous... you can and will win football games with those averages... Would 20 be better, sure, is it necessary? Not in the least.
My opposition, on the other hand, believes,
I firmly disagree. It is very realistic. First and foremost, most scores aren't the result of the big play, its the result of field position, especially when the teams are equal.
When all things are equal, and they never are, but when they are close... similar offensive production... similar defensive skills, and special teams... the team that will win, will be the one that is more consistent... the team that can continually ink out 5 to 6 play drives.
Again... field possition will come into play... especially when one team is playing for the big play, while the other is playing to move the chains. Big play, low percentage, 3 and outs... Consistent plays, a couple of first downs, then fall apart. Field possession will change, mistakes will be made by both teams... and the team that can consistently get first downs, will win the war, while the big play team, will win a few battles, but not nearly enough to win the war. Or maybe they do win an occassional war, but not enough to make coaching for big plays a sound strategy.
That's my 2 cents...
Thankyou very much... and goodnight! ;D
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Post by morris on Mar 29, 2008 11:33:25 GMT -6
Big plays are good, good teams see them more often than bad teams, but to act as if, 70 yard drives are the norm, or even 17+ plays are a reality is ridiculous. When teams score, its usually due to field position. Field position is mostly a result of defense and special teams. This is what Dub and some of us have been saying all along. If you read the portion of the text I posted he says that it does not have to lead to a score but a change in field position. Look at your film. Go back and look through your season's film and break it down to see how your drives break down. I do not think anyone (or at least me) is saying I am looking for the big play all the time. This is not chuck it up and throw it deep. This is not OC setting around saying I have to make things happen. Having a short field does not change the numbers. Billick points to " From year to year, four factors have been identified that have a consistently high correlation to a team's winning or losing" Turnovers Explosive plays 1st down efficiency (4+ on 1st down) Red Zone efficiency If you get a short field then you are getting into the Red Zone efficiency area. No one is saying that big plays or sound plays on defense on special teams do not play a large role in winning games. This is stricty from an offensive side of the ball what can they do or need to do to give their team the best chance to win. Plays over 12-16 often happen in the course of game just by players being players and coaches being coaches. Look at your film or games you have on tape and chart the drives. I would also suggest reading Billick's book and watching Coverdale's DVD on preseason planning. Coverdale goes through how he has taken Billick's information and how he applies it. Billick's POV in his book is not something he just came up with. "However, when I think of Bill Walsh and the "West Coast Offense", I think less of the actual X's and O's than I do of the comprehensive approach Coahc Wlash took to creating structure." "It is this systematic appraoch, which I learned from people like Bill Walsh and Dennis Green, that I am attemtping to convey in this book. Regardless of the style of play you advocate, the overall structure of prepaing your team through the game plan remains the same."
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Post by khalfie on Mar 29, 2008 12:32:51 GMT -6
Plays over 12-16 often happen in the course of game just by players being players and coaches being coaches. Look at your film or games you have on tape and chart the drives. I would also suggest reading Billick's book and watching Coverdale's DVD on preseason planning. Coverdale goes through how he has taken Billick's information and how he applies it. Billick's POV in his book is not something he just came up with. Morris if I'm reading you correctly... and you are stating similarly to what I believe, that big plays happen in the course of the game... then where's the argument. Who could argue that? However, what I was arguing, is what I thought Dubber was conveying, that in order to win, you must have "big plays", and to have big plays, you must coach for the "big play". As if you can conjure up the big play, whenever you want? That was, and is, crazy to me... If a team could just make big plays happen, they would do it all the time... not just in special circumstances... but all the time... every play would be the 'big play.' But if its like you said, big plays come within the course of the game. Then do what you do, and pray for the best. It seemed to me, Dubber was saying you have to coach for the "big plays", huh? And coaches that aren't, are doomed for failure. Coaching for consistency, 3 to 5 yard gains, is an exercise in futility... because sooner or later you'll need that big play, and it won't happen, because you didn't.... "what?" That's when I countered, that teams don't get the big play against better teams... that's what makes the better team better. No assignment breakdowns, no neglecting their keys, missing their tackles... no big plays... hell, most defenses are designed to stop... big plays... happens all the time, especially when teams are similar in capabilities. Talking about big plays is a wasted conversation... its "nebulous"... its an after effect... you don't cause the big play, you execute "the play"... you call the best play for the circumstances, and hope it turns into the "big play"... This conversation, insinuates that there is something more coaches can do, to ensure Big Plays... Bill Belichic said..."something in his book...", stats have shown that "teams win when big plays happen..." Coaches call games... they call games well, they get big plays... Focusing on the big plays... exercise in futility... call the game, move the chains.
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Post by morris on Mar 29, 2008 13:34:21 GMT -6
Its not Bellichic..its Billick. Bellichic is the HC of the Pats and Billick is currently not coach I believe.
Defenses just like Offenses are going have to have breakdowns. They are going to miss tackles. I would like to see tape of a team that went through a whole game or a number of complete games and did not miss a tackle or blow an assignment. Guys always following their keys and that is why teams have false key plays. I would say all defenses are designed to take away the big pay some how. Some are more comfortable if they give up a gain of 12-16+ but how many DC are happy giving up any type of big play?
Certain plays have a higher likely hood of picking larger amounts of yrds. This might be due to defense calling a bad call, formation, matchups, or be simple design of the play. 4 verts is going to have a different probabilty of picking up 12-16+ yrds then the FB dive. Now against a prevent defense then the FB dive has a higher probablitly of picking up larger chunks of field. I wonder how many options the T team that started this debate has for 3rd and 8+? I am sure a number of good T teams have a plan for those types of down and distance that is outside their normal play calling to a small degree.
By game planning you can create (and practice) chances to put your team in a position that a play would have a higher chance of gaining a large gain in the 12-16+ range. This might only be good for a few tries because the defense will make an adjustment. You might not be able to call a play becasue you have not set it up yet. What I am NOT going to do is call a play and pray.
There is something more coaches can do to increase their efficiency of offense, to give their offense more of a chance to be successful and that is game planning. While all people game plan not all people game plan in an effective manner. Teams that game plan extremely well win more games I would venture to say. Their teams are better prepared and thus play better. They leave little to chance and place their players in positions that directly relate to what they will or could be asked to do in a game.
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Post by dubber on Mar 29, 2008 14:06:30 GMT -6
Nothing wrong with coaching to get 3-5 yards a play (like I said, MY TEAM does that)......problem comes when you cannot get more yardage than that per play......because eventually, you mess up one of those downs, are off schedule and have to punt.
Not advocating against the conservative response, unless that approach starts excluding you from big plays. Same thing with a more aggressive type of play calling. If you throw 4 verts a ton, and you are not getting big plays (turnovers, incompletions), then you need to change your plan of attack (more draws, screen etc.)
Look at it this way:
My team is bad.
I want to know why.
I notice that we turn the ball over 3 times as much as our opponents------THAT is something I want to fix.
It works the same way with the "explosive plays" department.
I notice we can't score and consistently put our defense on the short field.
I want to fix that.
I see we are -5 a game on explosive plays to our opponent----I want to find ways to get those explosive plays.
It's that simple.
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Post by silkyice on Mar 29, 2008 21:48:25 GMT -6
I notice that we turn the ball over 3 times as much as our opponents------THAT is something I want to fix. It works the same way with the "explosive plays" department. I see we are -5 a game on explosive plays to our opponent----I want to find ways to get those explosive plays. It's that simple. OK. Turnovers I can fix. Hold onto to the ball, don't throw into coverage. The point that we want more explosive plays is simple. But it sure isn't easy to create more explosive plays. I am willing to bet that most every run-first coach on here will run the counter or pa pass when it is open or the defense over commits to stop your run. I also bet that most every run-first coach still will take a chance (trick play or bomb) or two a game if they are losing or even early in the game. My guess would be that you would think that if you are pass-first or spread you are already trying to create explosive plays. My point is, I think most (not all) are doing what they should to create explosive plays. The better teams just create more. Play the game to win, not to create explosive plays. I believe that turnovers are the number 1 predictor of winning. A reverse with a double handoff has a greater chance of a turnover. Should I never call the reverse since it has a greater likelyhood of a turnover, and the more I turn it over the less likely I am to win? No, if the reverse is open I should call it. It is just like the explosive plays. If I had some magical list of explosive plays, shouldn't I call those everytime? No, call them when they are open. Play the game to win. If they can't stop lead, then run lead. But if they can't stop it, it is going to be explosive. Every lead is not going to go for 4 yards exactly. You are going to have plenty to go for 8+ if they can't stop it. Then all of the sudden, your most basic call and play is magically explosive. If I am up 4 in the fourth quarter, and lead is working (not dominant, but working), and I check some chart and realize that I haven't had an explosive play lately and call that reverse and we fumble, then I am a dumb butt. I have seen plenty of teams lose to us because they tried to get "explosive." They are lining up and kicking our butt on a drive. Then on 2nd & 6, they throw a play action pass and we sack them or intercept or even it falls incomplete. Every coach on our side says, "THANK YOU." They then end not running the play we can't stop because it only got 4 yards on first down. We end up stopping the drive and that allows us to win. Trying to be "explosive" or cute cost them the game. Surely, you coaches have had that happen to you. It has happened plenty to me. And yes, I am gulity of trying to get too cute also. Hopefully I have gotten better. I am afraid that this thread could cost some coaches to lose some games by getting too "cute." I know that a lot of y'all think that if coaches don't call more explosive plays, that will cost them some games. My solution, call the game. If they can't stop something, run it. If they give you something, take it. Don't be afraid to run something, but don't be stupid and run something to just try and be explosive. Does this make me smart? Heck no. Coaches have been doing this for 100 years.
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Post by dubber on Mar 29, 2008 23:08:40 GMT -6
Play the game to win, not to create explosive plays. These are one in the same. It's like saying "play to win the game, don't worry about turnovers" they are tied to each other. In your example, if Lead is getting at least 4 every play, it is natural to assume that some of those at least 4 yarders will be 10 yarders, and you are getting your explosive plays. If you are getting 4 yards, and no more, on Lead, you will find your offense sputtering out. When you examine this reason, you will find it is because you are not getting those greater chunks of yardage that change field position and end in scores. That when you need to do something different (counter, PAP, whatever your offense does) My solution, call the game. If they can't stop something, run it. If they give you something, take it. Don't be afraid to run something, but don't be stupid and run something to just try and be explosive. Couldn't have said it better. I think you find that when things are working (ex. you can run Lead all day) you will be getting explosive plays. Big plays, I would say, normally come in the natural flow of your offense. If they stop coming, you will notice it (on the scoreboard), and at that point, you should realize the defense has you figured, and it is time to mix it up. For example: A team knows your tendency on 1st down really well. You are doing poorly on first down because of it, putting you in longer successive downs than you normally like and throwing the offense off track. You need to break the tendency, take advantage of their over compensation, and get them off track. When you do this, you'll find that your base stuff works better (and garners more explosive plays). By the way, Morris already mentioned this, but the four things Billick's study found were critical to offensive success: 1. 1st down efficency 2. Turnovers 3. Explosive plays 4. Red Zone efficency Conversely, a defense should look to win the battle in these 4 areas
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Post by silkyice on Mar 29, 2008 23:27:49 GMT -6
I think we agree to agree! No arguement here.
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Post by phantom on Mar 30, 2008 8:12:50 GMT -6
Play the game to win, not to create explosive plays. These are one in the same. It's like saying "play to win the game, don't worry about turnovers" they are tied to each other. In your example, if Lead is getting at least 4 every play, it is natural to assume that some of those at least 4 yarders will be 10 yarders, and you are getting your explosive plays. If you are getting 4 yards, and no more, on Lead, you will find your offense sputtering out. When you examine this reason, you will find it is because you are not getting those greater chunks of yardage that change field position and end in scores. That when you need to do something different (counter, PAP, whatever your offense does) My solution, call the game. If they can't stop something, run it. If they give you something, take it. Don't be afraid to run something, but don't be stupid and run something to just try and be explosive. Couldn't have said it better. I think you find that when things are working (ex. you can run Lead all day) you will be getting explosive plays. Big plays, I would say, normally come in the natural flow of your offense. If they stop coming, you will notice it (on the scoreboard), and at that point, you should realize the defense has you figured, and it is time to mix it up. For example: A team knows your tendency on 1st down really well. You are doing poorly on first down because of it, putting you in longer successive downs than you normally like and throwing the offense off track. You need to break the tendency, take advantage of their over compensation, and get them off track. When you do this, you'll find that your base stuff works better (and garners more explosive plays). By the way, Morris already mentioned this, but the four things Billick's study found were critical to offensive success: 1. 1st down efficency 2. Turnovers 3. Explosive plays 4. Red Zone efficency Conversely, a defense should look to win the battle in these 4 areas And we do. To me, the question here is the definition of an explosive play. The NFL definition of a 10 yard run doesn't work for me. That's just a first down. OK, here's the call. My definition of a big play is closer to 20 yards. That really changes the field. Field position is what it's all about and a 20 yarder changes that.
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billyn
Sophomore Member
Posts: 231
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Post by billyn on Mar 30, 2008 8:43:04 GMT -6
Another way to look at this whole thing is how many third downs are you having to convert on a touchdown drive. If the defense can consistently make you convert third downs they have a much better chance at stopping you. So, the more plays on a drive that you can gain chunks of yardage the easier it should be to score.
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Post by morris on Mar 30, 2008 10:09:56 GMT -6
About 20% of your calls are 3rd down calls. 40-45% or so of your calls are 1st down and 35% or so is 2nd down.
Some are taking the explosive play term a little too far. It does not mean it has to be some trick play or or go for broke. The example that Billick uses in his book is a 5 step drop pass with a Curl by Z and seam by the Y (TE), under by the H, post/post corner, and R check releasing to a stick/checkdown. The idea is that he has answers in the concept to attack and get a larger chunk of field but the play also has built in options to keep the drive on pace with the H and R. Both the H/R also give the play a chance to create a more explosive play with YAC.
Now I have out thought myself a few times on play calls. the example of the team going PA and getting sacked brings up different questions such as 1) Did the defense have the right call on? Sometimes the DC dials up the right combination. 2) Did the offense make a mistake? It might have been a great call but if if someone screws up it does not matter.
From Billick's book again pg 40
"If you are creating explosive plays as a basic part of your route progression, or if you have had a couple of broken tackles for big gains, this will suffice."
"However, if you have gone a couple of series of four, five, or six plays without creating an explosive play, then create one."
He then uses the pass play earlier in this post to show an example of how to call a play that is a little more aggressive and yet still gives his offense the chance to stay on track with a checkdown
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Post by coachd5085 on Mar 30, 2008 10:42:13 GMT -6
Guys...i really think that the major issue / "disagreements" being had here are because of the differences in level and approaches to the game. A coach who considers himself "run series oriented" might not approach the game the same way as an NFL coach. A coach without a diverse talent base might not approach the game the same way an NFL coach with various weapons adn mismatch opportunities would.
Again, context must be taken into account. In the NFL, there are definitely certain plays (usually passes) that have a higher probability of gaining 10-12 yards than other plays, such as lead, zone, trap , iso and counter. At the H.S level, this MIGHT NOT be the case. At the H.S level, your best chance at getting a 12+ play might be to run your best play, be it lead, zone, trap, iso, counter...therefore you don't really "look" to create explosive plays.
I would say however, that there are probably still things you can take from this. Look for ways to design more explosive plays using your available talent. Formation/motions to isolate your best player against their worst defender...shifts and unbalanced to get levarage on the edge...
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Post by khalfie on Mar 30, 2008 10:45:27 GMT -6
I get it now...
It all makes sense...
Once I saw the stats and the quote from page 40... I realize what Billichick was getting at...
But I still say to hell with the explosive play...
I'm going for the "touchdown Play"...
Stats have shown that teams that make more touchdown plays then their opponent win 98% of the games...
What I'm going to start doing on my play sheet is, call the "break tackles play", then mix it with the "catch the bomb play", and when I have them on the ropes... its time for the... yes you guessed it "touchdown play".
I don't know why I didn't think of this on my own... I do need to get out and get the Billichick book... what's the name again... ;D
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Post by morris on Mar 30, 2008 10:55:14 GMT -6
The level of play and style of offense are addressed in the book. One example is that HS teams will go for it on 4th downs more so that changes the approach to some of the other downs. The ratios and percentages do hold up.
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Post by coachd5085 on Mar 30, 2008 11:13:44 GMT -6
The level of play and style of offense are addressed in the book. One example is that HS teams will go for it on 4th downs more so that changes the approach to some of the other downs. The ratios and percentages do hold up. While the claim that the ratios and percentages do hold up (no way of saying they do, you don't have any stats other than your team....but I will go with you on it anyway) at the HS level I would say the statistics are much more correlation and much less causation. Also, his approach does not take into account various levels such that at some levels/situations, the realistic best choice to create a big play might be calling the same play you have been getting 3 yards on. For example, if you coach at a small football co-op, chances are you don't have enough skill/ ability specialization to make it worth your while to design/carry "explosives" in your playbook. If you are at a top class school in Louisiana, Texas, Florida, well, you might have certain players who can do "A" best and certain players who can do "B" best... The Billick's premise is simple: statistically, there is correlation between explosive plays and offensive success (kind of a DUH, but whatever). He surmises that if you find yourself not having explosive plays, then it is in your best interest to try and create them. A great example of this premise at the HS level is John Curtis Christian school in LA. I have had the pleasure (or misfortune, depending if I was in the stands, or across the field) to see them play upwards of 20 times. Against most opposition, JC runs the cutback play and the IV. Thats it. Simply via talent and execution, this results in plenty of big plays. (I saw them once in a Jamboree go in after the first 1/2 winning 49-0. They had run 7 plays. Do the math). However, against Hoover, this approach was not "creating" big plays for them. They found a way to get a few explosive plays, and then were able to win the game game going away.
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Post by ucbears90 on Mar 31, 2008 14:59:26 GMT -6
To me its simple, I have guys that go two ways, and I practice 4 days a week for all intents and purposes. We are limited as high school coaches as to how much we can rep things. In college you meet and watch film for HOURS before and after practice, not to mention spring football etc and you are only going one way. IN the pros its your job, Its 9-5 at least for those guys and they're going one way as well. so obviously execution will be better at the NFL level and they feel they need to get an explosive play, because at some point someone screws up or the defense guesses right. Now if we are not physically superior to an opponent and I am going to try to go on 13+ play drives all the time, someone is going to guess right or physically beat my kid at some point or we will make a mistake(missed assignment penalty etc) and I'm looking at 2nd and long or 3rd and long. The big play eliminates the number or plays and such the probability of a mistake by my guys because they have less oppurtunities. Field position and big plays GREATLY increase your chances to score. Look at every scoring drive you had last year, I'm willing to bet average field position was better on them than on all drives, and on the majority of them you had at least one and probably more plays of 15+yds. Its simple mathematics and probability. EXPLOSIVE does not mean TRICK. It means your guys execute better on a play and you get a larger than typical gain. It might be an iso that your back breaks a tackle on the first level and gets 18 instead of 4 or 5. All this leads to the conclusion that in wins you are gonna have big plays and thus big drives. In losses you will have less big plays, in turn less scoring drives. Have I gone on 15 play 70 yard drives, yeah, but on most of them we had 3rd and 10 we had to convert and thus had a big play. I love a drive of 70 yards of all 3, 4, or 5 yd gains but they don't happen on a regular basis. Alot of words but long story short I agree with dubber and morris.
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Post by dubber on Apr 8, 2008 11:27:09 GMT -6
Another interesting look at statistics. I think that ties into Billick's stats where the team with a +2 advantage in explosive plays wins 80% of the time. If your defense is good (like LSU), explosives are limited (when you don't give up long runs and passes, the offense not only has its drive sputter, it also fails to change the field position)......ergo, an average offense like LSU's can shine (11th in scoring, but 26th in total means that got great field position). Although it turned into it, this is not a pure offensive discussion. Your defense obviously wants to limit these explosive plays. Anyway to get the edge in them (just like you want the edge in turnovers). If your defense is rated high, but you're losing games, you may want to check your hit chart for explosive plays. I'd bet you are either not getting them, or you are turning the ball over big time. It's a good way to diagnose the problems in your team performance. And by that I mean: "Be hell bent for big plays, run a reverse and a reverse pass and the polecat and the statue of liberty, because running an iso is archaic and never yields a big play"
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ramsoc
Junior Member
Posts: 431
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Post by ramsoc on Apr 8, 2008 22:26:39 GMT -6
If they are not happening, however, you need to do something to help them happen, because if you think that 3-4 yards EVERY time will get the job done, you are mistaken. As a former DW guy, that does get the job done. Sure I'll pop a Counter Criss Cross for 80 yards, but I'm more than content to Super Power my way up and down the field.
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Post by dubber on Apr 9, 2008 9:52:40 GMT -6
If they are not happening, however, you need to do something to help them happen, because if you think that 3-4 yards EVERY time will get the job done, you are mistaken. As a former DW guy, that does get the job done. Sure I'll pop a Counter Criss Cross for 80 yards, but I'm more than content to Super Power my way up and down the field. How many scoring drive did you have where you didn't gain over 5 yards on a given play? versus How many scoring drive did you have where you had a big play (run +12) that either scored or set up the score? I'd bet you'd find a skew to the latter rather than the former.
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