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Post by CoachHess on Dec 9, 2019 9:50:15 GMT -6
In the past, we have always said if you quit a sport during winter/spring, you can't be a part of our weight room until that sport is over. This is our way of getting young people to stick with something they start. I feel as if maybe it is over-the-top in some cases.
How do you guys handle such situations? We have a leadership council and I might bring it to their attention and ask them. But part of this leadership/team competition is participating in other sports and getting points for weight room attendance. We've thought about letting those kids come and lift with us, but they don't get points for those days until their other sport is over.
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Post by StraightFlexin on Dec 9, 2019 9:58:38 GMT -6
I understand the importance of student athletes standing by a commitment they have made, but what if the other sport they originally signed up for is a sham? The coach is horrible, no structure, the coach promised to lift during season and bail out on that, and the student feels like they are regressing.....
I have been part of a district where many of the off-season sports were ran like a rec league and almost everything was optional (including practice). If a student wants to benefit themselves by removing themselves from an off-season sport and lift, why punish them? Again I get the whole, quitting gets easier, and its what you signed up for thing..
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Post by RunThePistol on Dec 9, 2019 10:01:58 GMT -6
The way we handled it in years past was the following:
1) Until the sport OFFICIALLY starts they are football so they are expected to continue with football activities.
2) Once their sport OFFICIALLY starts they are expected to get 2-3 lifts in a week. We augment their workout so that it suits their sport as well, and they re never allowed to lift with us on game days.
They chose to pay mutliple sports and part of being an adult it "Time Management". What better way to teach "Time Management" than when a young man plays 2-3 sports and doesn't make excuses but does what is asked of him in order to play those sports. Train the overall athlete, not just the sport that he plays.
THe only question I have is: Why wouldn't you award the player points if he is going out of his way to be fully committed to both sports? That should warrant extra points in my eyes.
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Post by CoachHess on Dec 9, 2019 10:14:58 GMT -6
The way we handled it in years past was the following: 1) Until the sport OFFICIALLY starts they are football so they are expected to continue with football activities. 2) Once their sport OFFICIALLY starts they are expected to get 2-3 lifts in a week. We augment their workout so that it suits their sport as well, and they re never allowed to lift with us on game days. They chose to pay mutliple sports and part of being an adult it "Time Management". What better way to teach "Time Management" than when a young man plays 2-3 sports and doesn't make excuses but does what is asked of him in order to play those sports. Train the overall athlete, not just the sport that he plays. THe only question I have is: Why wouldn't you award the player points if he is going out of his way to be fully committed to both sports? That should warrant extra points in my eyes. He's not. He wants to quit one sport and just workout with football after school. All our football players are in weight room during the day for class. |
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Post by coachcb on Dec 9, 2019 10:15:12 GMT -6
We've never had a rule like the one you described; that seems like overkill. I understand wanting the kids to finish what they start but we'd never turn a kid away from the weight room. I'd be hard pressed to name an administration that would allow us to turn those kids away.
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Post by RunThePistol on Dec 9, 2019 10:16:19 GMT -6
uukicker98- THen he doesn't lift... He quit... which turns him into a cancer. He can lift with his sport, but he is excluded from football.
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Post by CoachHess on Dec 9, 2019 10:16:51 GMT -6
I understand the importance of student athletes standing by a commitment they have made, but what if the other sport they originally signed up for is a sham? The coach is horrible, no structure, the coach promised to lift during season and bail out on that, and the student feels like they are regressing..... I have been part of a district where many of the off-season sports were ran like a rec league and almost everything was optional (including practice). If a student wants to benefit themselves by removing themselves from an off-season sport and lift, why punish them? Again I get the whole, quitting gets easier, and its what you signed up for thing.. It's a respected wrestling program. He is a freshman who has wrestled for years. Their matches have already started, he's just not enjoying it. I agree with what you are saying about punishing him. That's the $20,000 question I don't have the answer to. |
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Post by CoachHess on Dec 9, 2019 10:19:06 GMT -6
uukicker98- THen he doesn't lift... He quit... which turns him into a cancer. He can lift with his sport, but he is excluded from football. Which has always been our stance. You're a quitter and we don't want those kids in our program. He's a freshman, he isn't enjoying wrestling like he always has, he'd rather be with us lifting. By not giving him points can we still punish him/his team yet make sure he isn't falling behind developmentally? Or do we stick to the plan we've always had regarding quitting an off-season team? |
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Post by RunThePistol on Dec 9, 2019 10:22:46 GMT -6
Stick to the plan. He's no longer a "Football Team Member" so he does not have the right to lift with the team. He made his decision, now he gets to learn to live without football. If he decides he misses it and wants to come back then that is another discussion, until then he just a another kid.
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Post by coachcb on Dec 9, 2019 10:28:11 GMT -6
I wouldn't automatically tag the kid as a "quitter" or a "cancer". We want the kids to see things through to the end and we hope that their parents would demand it as well but there are good kids that have legitimate reasons for quitting a sport.
It's a different story if they quit that sport and are a PITA in the weight room.
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Post by CoachHess on Dec 9, 2019 10:37:45 GMT -6
I wouldn't automatically tag the kid as a "quitter" or a "cancer". We want the kids to see things through to the end and we hope that their parents would demand it as well but there are good kids that have legitimate reasons for quitting a sport. It's a different story if they quit that sport and are a PITA in the weight room. Which is where this kid falls in line at. Good kid, we actually named him a team leader on his off-season team. He's not having fun, he doesn't want to cut weight. This has caused us to re-evaluate our procedures. |
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Post by newhope on Dec 9, 2019 11:23:36 GMT -6
I wouldn't automatically tag the kid as a "quitter" or a "cancer". We want the kids to see things through to the end and we hope that their parents would demand it as well but there are good kids that have legitimate reasons for quitting a sport. It's a different story if they quit that sport and are a PITA in the weight room. Which is where this kid falls in line at. Good kid, we actually named him a team leader on his off-season team. He's not having fun, he doesn't want to cut weight. This has caused us to re-evaluate our procedures. I understand what you're saying here. However, how are you going to let him do it and not the one who's NOT a good kid? It's really not a different story with the PITA kid. It's the same story. Kid wants to quit one sport to start workouts for another. There's a good way to cause yourself some issues--"yes, I let Johnny quit and come lift but I didn't let your son because he's a PITA". There is such a thing as making a decision and then having to live with it and make the best of the situation. Kids need to learn that as well. In today's world, there's too much quitting and transferring when it doesn't go your way and not enough working through it. How happy are you going to be when they quit football to start basketball or wrestling workouts? What happens when your season isn't going the way they want it to or they're not getting the PT they expected and they move to another sport before yours is over? As for the post about an administration not allowing such a policy, I haven't worked for one in over 30 years that didn't support a policy of kids not quitting one sport and starting another before the season was over. |
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Post by silkyice on Dec 9, 2019 11:24:31 GMT -6
Johnny wants to play football, but Johnny doesn't want to lift. Johnny is smart and watches what happens to kids who quit wrestling. Next year, Johnny joins the wrestling team and then quits. He does the same for baseball. Now he just got out of winter and spring lifting, but still gets to play football.
Isn't the solution for the strength training to be something all ATHLETES do, not just football players?
I understand the rule that when a kid quits football, he doesn't get to play basketball until football is over or when a kid quits basketball he doesn't get to play baseball until basketball is over, but I don't get the rule about not lifting.
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Post by coachcb on Dec 9, 2019 11:25:01 GMT -6
I wouldn't automatically tag the kid as a "quitter" or a "cancer". We want the kids to see things through to the end and we hope that their parents would demand it as well but there are good kids that have legitimate reasons for quitting a sport. It's a different story if they quit that sport and are a PITA in the weight room. Which is where this kid falls in line at. Good kid, we actually named him a team leader on his off-season team. He's not having fun, he doesn't want to cut weight. This has caused us to re-evaluate our procedures.
That was what I imagined with the kid. Jumping into high school wrestling from middle school/club can be brutal, especially if they've never had to cut weight before. It not only takes a lot of the fun out of the sport; it affects their performance and their schooling. I love wrestlers as they're a tough group of kids but cutting weight really takes it's toll on kids and I understand when they decide the sport isn't for them.
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Post by coachcb on Dec 9, 2019 11:32:30 GMT -6
I understand the rule that when a kid quits football, he doesn't get to play basketball until football is over or when a kid quits basketball he doesn't get to play baseball until basketball is over, but I don't get the rule about not lifting.
This is what the administrations I have worked under would never be on board with. They'd let coaches turn kids away from sport-specific off-season activities like open gyms/fields/passing sessions (etc..) but never the weight room. The weight room is open to all of the kids and we wouldn't be able to turn them away unless they caused problems in there.
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Post by rudyrude9 on Dec 9, 2019 12:14:42 GMT -6
#1, Your rule makes zero sense at all to me. Like I can't even begin to understand what could possibly be the thought process there.
#2, The kid should be lifting regardless. In season guys have a lifting program. Out of season guys have a lifting program. Get them all in the weight room. This seems to be your real problem.
#3, Let kids be kids. Get over yourself
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Post by mkuempel on Dec 9, 2019 12:26:00 GMT -6
My suggestion would be to keep the rule as is for now, too many headaches could come from making this kid "the exception", but also look to tweak your point system in the future, I've given students points for both, being a part of another sport and days in the weight room. I can't remember the exact breakdown, but overall points for being on another sport team out-weighed points possible for just lifting, and if you did both, you earned a lot more points than just doing one or the other. Also, we deducted a large number of points if an athlete quit another sport, but never didn't allow them to lift. I think we all get that this kid has legitimate reasons for not wanting to wrestle anymore, but with every decision, there is a consequence to that decision and he knew that when he made his decision.
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Post by M4 on Dec 9, 2019 12:34:39 GMT -6
We have a similar rule, the only difference was we had a clause that a player could withdraw from the team in good standing, essentially differentiating between a kid who "quits" i.e. goes MIA or leaves in a rage due to playing time, blow up with the coach etc vs a kid who "withdraws" after speaking to that teams HC, explaining his reasons and the HC accepts his withdraw.
The reason this came about was we had a kid who had never swam competitively before get talked into trying out by one of his buddies as a junior, made the swim team because there was no cuts and after a couple weeks the kid just decided that he wasn't into it at all, was really not a good swimmer to begin with and wanted to just lift. The swim coach was 100% ok with it, he knew the kid wasn't really liking it but, by the rules, the kid would not have been able to lift with the football team. So we added this.
Consider adding this to your rules moving forward. What it does is allows kids to have a change of mind but forces them to handle it the right way, talk to the coach of the team you want to leave, explain your decision, ask to be released so you can lift, don't just go MIA. If the coach does not grant a release, then, decision made.
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Post by justafbcoach on Dec 9, 2019 13:03:10 GMT -6
Some kids may not realize how involved some of these sports are until they get involved. For example, we want all of our lineman/linebacker-type kids to join Wrestling and skill kids to join Track. Those sports have some intense time requirements and require Saturdays for meets as well. Some kids work and need to be available because they or their families count on some extra money.
Our solution if a kid just wants to lift is to join our weightlifting team so they are at least at practices while waiting for football to start.
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Post by CoachHess on Dec 9, 2019 13:29:53 GMT -6
#1, Your rule makes zero sense at all to me. Like I can't even begin to understand what could possibly be the thought process there. #2, The kid should be lifting regardless. In season guys have a lifting program. Out of season guys have a lifting program. Get them all in the weight room. This seems to be your real problem. #3, Let kids be kids. Get over yourself 1. He quit. We are trying to instill in our kids a certain mentality. If you quit a sport you don't get rewarded by coming and being a part of us right away. 2. He does lift. We have all of our players lifting in class all, year round. This is after school. Not a problem for us at all. 3. So let kids quit whenever they want? And thank you, I'll take your advice to heart. |
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Post by MICoach on Dec 9, 2019 13:35:17 GMT -6
I wouldn't automatically tag the kid as a "quitter" or a "cancer". We want the kids to see things through to the end and we hope that their parents would demand it as well but there are good kids that have legitimate reasons for quitting a sport. It's a different story if they quit that sport and are a PITA in the weight room. Ditto to this. If it were up to me, yeah kids would see their commitments through and stick through every single time...but that's not always the case. I coach wrestling as well as football and we've had kids who quit because their grades were struggling or because they need to watch younger siblings. We've also had kids who stay on because their mom tells them they have to wrestle and it's not their choice. But especially with a younger kid, I don't think I'd ban them from the weight room or something similar if they quit a sport they weren't enjoying. I'd say the biggest thing is to talk with the kid and let them know that you don't want that to become a habit. |
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Post by silkyice on Dec 9, 2019 14:01:07 GMT -6
2. He does lift. We have all of our players lifting in class all, year round. Ummmmmmm... This changes everything. What are we even talking about? |
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 9, 2019 21:16:35 GMT -6
I can't believe that people keep glossing over what I think might be the key factor in this. "HE DOESN'T WANT TO CUT WEIGHT" is what the OP mentioned (maybe even twice?).
I think it is absolutely acceptable for a kid to say "You know, I don't want to do things that may be detrimental to my physical development as a 13/14 year old to participate in HS wrestling" and not be labeled in a negative manner (i.e. "quitter")
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Post by coachscdub on Dec 10, 2019 0:24:16 GMT -6
There is no negative in having a kid who wants to lift, lift with you.
He is not a cancer because he quit a sport he doesn't like. I'd argue he's not a 'quitter' for quitting that sport, he tried it he doesn't like it, he understands the commitment it takes and sees that he will not reap the benefits while still being forced to sacrifice, thats a smart kid in my book.
Now if he quit on the football team 1/2 way through the year and now wants to comeback that's different, but i couldn't give a damn if he quit another sport for whatever reason, and i definitely wouldn't care if it he did with a logical thought process.
I think this 'hell no he's a quitter can't have him don't want him' mindset will eventually (if it hasn't already) be a detriment to football.
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Post by StraightFlexin on Dec 10, 2019 10:33:51 GMT -6
#1, Your rule makes zero sense at all to me. Like I can't even begin to understand what could possibly be the thought process there. #2, The kid should be lifting regardless. In season guys have a lifting program. Out of season guys have a lifting program. Get them all in the weight room. This seems to be your real problem. #3, Let kids be kids. Get over yourself 1. He quit. We are trying to instill in our kids a certain mentality. If you quit a sport you don't get rewarded by coming and being a part of us right away. 2. He does lift. We have all of our players lifting in class all, year round. This is after school. Not a problem for us at all. 3. So let kids quit whenever they want? And thank you, I'll take your advice to heart. Okay I get they are quitting another sport, but how does a player not wanting to play a different sport become your issue? What if it is in the student's best interest not to continue? What if the student wants to build a strong bond with the other players that are lifting after school? Shouldn't we be encouraging kids to take chances to join other programs. I think your rule deters kids from doing that. I'll reference my "bad coaching statement with an analogy.......... We all want players to be close with their parents and family, what if they are drug addicts? Does a player not have to right to make a decision to remove themselves from a situation that they do not enjoy? I get the whole commitment idea, but this doesn't sound like a kid that wants to quit another sport to focus on off season Halo. Sounds like he wants to get better at a sport he is passionate about. |
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Post by coachtua on Dec 10, 2019 12:14:39 GMT -6
Our AD instituted a policy that if you start a sport you have 2 weeks to try it out. If you quit within those 2 weeks you are fine. But if you go longer you cannot go out for another sport without meeting with him first and explaining why this sport is important to you. Also when you quit you have a meeting with him citing the reasons for quitting
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Post by silkyice on Dec 10, 2019 12:22:31 GMT -6
Our AD instituted a policy that if you start a sport you have 2 weeks to try it out. If you quit within those 2 weeks you are fine. But if you go longer you cannot go out for another sport without meeting with him first and explaining why this sport is important to you. Also when you quit you have a meeting with him citing the reasons for quitting 2 weeks of practice or 2 weeks of games? |
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Post by groundchuck on Dec 10, 2019 12:41:43 GMT -6
If they quit say basketball for example they just start lifting right away if they want.
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Post by coachtua on Dec 10, 2019 12:55:29 GMT -6
Our AD instituted a policy that if you start a sport you have 2 weeks to try it out. If you quit within those 2 weeks you are fine. But if you go longer you cannot go out for another sport without meeting with him first and explaining why this sport is important to you. Also when you quit you have a meeting with him citing the reasons for quitting 2 weeks of practice or 2 weeks of games? Practice/team activities. |
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Post by drmackey on Dec 10, 2019 13:00:03 GMT -6
We have something similar. Its 2 weeks, so for football it is one scrimmage. Basketball here begins when we finish the playoffs so they hit the ground running. They had 2 games and a tournament the first two weeks. Usually it only affects incoming freshman. After that first year they have a better understanding of the expectations from sport to sport.
If they quit after the two weeks they are going to miss time from their next sport. They miss whatever % of games they have played. So if you quit football after 2 games you will be suspended for 20% of your next sport; If you quit after 8 games then 80% of your next sport. When we got here last year quitting was rampant throughout all of the athletic programs. We lost a lot of kids from the athletic program, mostly juniors that would be seniors this year. We lost 3 returning offensive line men, all are seniors and would have started. Ended up playing with only 1 Senior. It was rough early, but we ended up finishing third in our district and winning a first round playoff game. We should be pretty good next year. More importantly we had only two kids quit during football. One quit during the first two weeks, the other will miss 80% of his next sport.
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