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Post by CS on Dec 5, 2019 8:38:39 GMT -6
They’re serious about it here. If you elect to take a knee you have won. We had a ref come to the sideline and tell me if one of our kids “fired out like that against a defenseless player he would be ejected” Is this no matter what? Do the refs blow the whistle immediately on the snap? It wouldn’t be fair if the offense got to waste more time by waiting to take a knee. What if they are backed up inside the one of two? All good questions. I told them that the kids were just playing defense and he said, "the other team is giving themselves up." I just work within the boundaries of what ever crew is there that night because I have come to the conclusion that any swinging d!ck that can blow a whistle will get put out there so no need to argue. The officiating is very wishy washy here
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Post by silkyice on Dec 5, 2019 8:48:05 GMT -6
Is this no matter what? Do the refs blow the whistle immediately on the snap? It wouldn’t be fair if the offense got to waste more time by waiting to take a knee. What if they are backed up inside the one of two? All good questions. I told them that the kids were just playing defense and he said, "the other team is giving themselves up." I just work within the boundaries of what ever crew is there that night because I have come to the conclusion that any swinging d!ck that can blow a whistle will get put out there so no need to argue. The officiating is very wishy washy here My take on the whole situation. If the game is not in doubt, no problem with the refs holding everyone off and getting the game over with. If the game is in doubt, play ball, make the offense snap it and take a knee, then protect the heck out of everyone. Nothing cheap anywhere from snap to whistle or after the whistle - which is how it should be anyways. But if the offense is to get extra protection, they don’t get to mess around either.
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Post by rosey65 on Dec 5, 2019 10:12:29 GMT -6
In watching the Penn State vs Ohio State game, it seems OSU's superstar DE affected the play if not got caused or got credit for a sack each time he was single blocked. So obviously the natural question here is "why are you doing something that will result in him being one on one?" We know as coaches we do stupid stuff all the time, I was just curious to hear some of the stories and some of the reasons why? To answer your question directly....this is in part due to OSU's style of defense. I dont think Chase Young lined up in the same place two plays in a row. It's hard for an offense to scheme pass protection to a player who lines up in a different place every play. When you do that, you end up no longer running your own scheme and changing everything you do base don defense. There's only so much you can do to to add an extra man to an unknown part of the LOS. Chip and double as often as possible, but sometimes you just have to try and win with your scheme. It's like double-teaming Randy Moss, especially when he played for NE. You cant spend the WHOLE game playing down a man on defense. Eventually you need to move your safety to another place on the field for coverage. Much like NE could just chuck it deep to a single-covered Randy, OSU knew they had a chance any time the RB or TE went away from Young.
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Post by cwaltsmith on Dec 5, 2019 10:47:56 GMT -6
In watching the Penn State vs Ohio State game, it seems OSU's superstar DE affected the play if not got caused or got credit for a sack each time he was single blocked. So obviously the natural question here is "why are you doing something that will result in him being one on one?" We know as coaches we do stupid stuff all the time, I was just curious to hear some of the stories and some of the reasons why? To answer your question directly....this is in part due to OSU's style of defense. I dont think Chase Young lined up in the same place two plays in a row. It's hard for an offense to scheme pass protection to a player who lines up in a different place every play. When you do that, you end up no longer running your own scheme and changing everything you do base don defense. There's only so much you can do to to add an extra man to an unknown part of the LOS. Chip and double as often as possible, but sometimes you just have to try and win with your scheme. It's like double-teaming Randy Moss, especially when he played for NE. You cant spend the WHOLE game playing down a man on defense. Eventually you need to move your safety to another place on the field for coverage. Much like NE could just chuck it deep to a single-covered Randy, OSU knew they had a chance any time the RB or TE went away from Young. THIS^^^^^^ If I have game planned to double player x every play all night. Then the team I am playing starts killing me on something else.... Then I might deviate away from the double call for a play or 2 to try and guess right... It is a chess match. I cant just sit in same thing all night or a good coach on the other side will eventually find a way to beat it. When a call the non double call I am hoping that I stop the new play they are killing me with and get them into something where they try and go back to the stuff I schemed to stop
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Post by coachcb on Dec 5, 2019 11:30:20 GMT -6
Sometimes we continually do something that doesnt work because ‘plan-b’ is far worse. Example we are only getting 1 yard a carry running to the left, but if we ran to the right we’d lose yards and probably get someone hurt. I caught alot of flak this year for not throwing the ball. " always running the same old plays." What the fans dont see is that we COULD NOT THROW OR CATCH. It was a waste of time. I wish they could have witness one segment of nk practice where we went 3 for 20 against AIR...
We got a bit of that this year; mainly because people saw us pass the ball well during one game (two minute offense took us down for a score). We were down early to the #5 team in the state (lost in the semis by 3 points), it was getting ugly so we were just trying to grind out the clock. Pick up a couple of first downs running the ball, get stopped punt and pray..
Had the stands hollering for us to throw, our OC asked me if we should go into two minute mode and try and punch one in. I relented, we hit two nice passes for first downs, got sacked and then threw a pick. Now the stand"s tune changed : "WOULD SOMEONE BLOCK NUMBER SEVENTY EIGHT!!!".
The difference between the two games: the first team DIDN'T have a D1-caliber DE that we couldn't handle 2v1...
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Post by rosey65 on Dec 5, 2019 12:28:09 GMT -6
To answer your question directly....this is in part due to OSU's style of defense. I dont think Chase Young lined up in the same place two plays in a row. It's hard for an offense to scheme pass protection to a player who lines up in a different place every play. When you do that, you end up no longer running your own scheme and changing everything you do base don defense. There's only so much you can do to to add an extra man to an unknown part of the LOS. Chip and double as often as possible, but sometimes you just have to try and win with your scheme. It's like double-teaming Randy Moss, especially when he played for NE. You cant spend the WHOLE game playing down a man on defense. Eventually you need to move your safety to another place on the field for coverage. Much like NE could just chuck it deep to a single-covered Randy, OSU knew they had a chance any time the RB or TE went away from Young. THIS^^^^^^ If I have game planned to double player x every play all night. Then the team I am playing starts killing me on something else.... Then I might deviate away from the double call for a play or 2 to try and guess right... It is a chess match. I cant just sit in same thing all night or a good coach on the other side will eventually find a way to beat it. When a call the non double call I am hoping that I stop the new play they are killing me with and get them into something where they try and go back to the stuff I schemed to stop And in keeping with the OSU theme, Xichigan not double-teaming Chase Young every play is not the same dumb thing as OSU only giving the ball to Zeke 6 times against Michigan State in a snow storm a few years back. I think "dumb things" need to be taken with a grain of salt. I empathize with the "its better than the alternative" people. We ran the ball ineffectively all season because we know we wouldn't throw a pick-6 by running Belly (we had more pick-6 (5) than passing TDs(1)) It can sometimes be hard to look at the bigger picture to try and figure out WHY. Michigan wanted to double Young. OSU moved Young so he couldn't be doubled. Patriots ran multiple receivers deep so the safety couldn't focus on Moss. Michigan State stacked the box to force Barrett to beat em, and he couldn't. It what makes football the greatest game in the world..... its a chess match with 22 simultaneously-moving pieces. All that being said, whenever I get too judgy of other people and programs, my HC reminds me "that's what they thought was the best call. No one tries to lose"
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Post by coachcb on Dec 5, 2019 13:21:28 GMT -6
IME, we've all started doing more "stupid things" since technology has advanced. We can break down film quickly and efficiently which makes it easy to develop game plans. However, it also makes it much easier to over-analyze when creating those game plans. We take what we've seen on film, turn it into the word from the Burning Bush, forget extenuating factors and become inflexible.
When we become inflexible, the wheels friggin' fall off. We played a good team at the end of the year and figured that we had to determine where their stud FCS-bound DL was aligned and kick him out. The kid is an animal but he comes up field too far and isn't hard to trap. Our run game depended on either running away from him or trapping him...
We marched it on them by checking various Traps to him when he was the 3 tech and then to Belly/Down Dive or Power/Counter when he was aligned at DE. They responded by moving to an odd front and playing him at NT. He kicked the hell out of our double teams so we couldn't run the ball between the tackles and they brought pressure hard off of the edges and took away our Jet and Rocket game.
We hadn't game planned for this AT ALL and went into panic mode ("WE DIDN'T SEE THAT ON FOUR FILMS!!!!". We started chucking the ball around with Waggle and our drop back game but it was an absolute dumpster fire.
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