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Post by doitforthekids on Oct 23, 2019 9:28:12 GMT -6
Once hired, how do you tactfully let go the previous staff? I would need to because the "culture" or mindset of the entire staff is TOXIC, I have good relationships personally but they can't coach here anymore the the turnaround. Some coach other sports and will recruiting kids away if they aren't involved, some I would like to get back in eventually once the program is set. I think it would be best to just cut everyone and start new and fresh. How do you do so? Call a meeting? Just don't hire them? Call everyone in individually? Any suggestions?
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Post by carookie on Oct 23, 2019 9:38:14 GMT -6
I would call them in individually, avoid mob mentality, and just explain it somewhat like you explained here.
"I am looking to change the culture of the program and to do so it is best to start from scratch. As such, we will be letting all coaches from the previous staff go. I appreciate your understanding in this matter, and if there is anything we can do to help you move forward in your coaching career please let us know."
You already said some will try to undercut and recruit kids away from you, but you are not going to change that so don't let it influence you. Be professional, be polite, and move forward.
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Post by newhope on Oct 23, 2019 13:08:26 GMT -6
I'm just amazed that you can find enough good coaches to replace an entire staff.
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Post by badtotheflexbone on Oct 23, 2019 16:58:36 GMT -6
I think what @newhope was referring to is the conundrum of "Do I get rid of my entire staff and if I do, Where am I going to find coaches (or bodies) to replace these role?" Damned if you do, damned if you don't
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Post by Defcord on Oct 23, 2019 17:00:44 GMT -6
If there are ones you would bring back eventually I would either keep them. I can’t imagine working for a guy who fired me.
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Post by freezeoption on Oct 23, 2019 17:15:11 GMT -6
You will be hard pressed to get a guy back you fired. You want to make sure you can actually fire these guys. That usually left up to administration.
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Post by wingtol on Oct 23, 2019 18:11:41 GMT -6
Sounds like a chit show. I’m gonna fire them all and they will keep kids from playing but when things get good I will hire them back and they will come running back to me....are you high? If you think it’s toxic now try and pull that and see how toxic it becomes. Is this a hypothetical since it doesn’t sound like you have the job yet.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2019 19:36:36 GMT -6
Once hired, how do you tactfully let go the previous staff? I would need to because the "culture" or mindset of the entire staff is TOXIC, I have good relationships personally but they can't coach here anymore the the turnaround. Some coach other sports and will recruiting kids away if they aren't involved, some I would like to get back in eventually once the program is set. I think it would be best to just cut everyone and start new and fresh. How do you do so? Call a meeting? Just don't hire them? Call everyone in individually? Any suggestions? better off finding ways to make them quit of their own accord.
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Post by caveman72 on Oct 23, 2019 20:29:35 GMT -6
You say they can’t coach “here” anymore. I take that to mean you coach in this program or are associated with it in some way? Have you been approached by admin during the season and offered the job once the deed is done and the current coach is fired? Or is this strictly daydreaming/theoretical? If you coach in this program, are you the only one fortunate enough to escape the aforementioned toxic mindset? If you are “here” and have been tapped as the prospective replacement by admin, and you have good relationships / friends on staff or with the HC, it might be a good idea to let them know so you don’t appear to be like so many these days who openly proclaim their loyalty while maneuvering like a spineless s$&t for a HC job. If I were you and this is not just theoretical, I’d make sure I’d do what it took to preserve honor and relationships with guys with which I have coached. If I misunderstood the context of your posts and you’re not involved in the program of which you speak, say... as junior high HC, for example, Then please disregard my comments. If you are on staff in some capacity, I’d have a very frank conversation with the head man lest some other Toxic minded, no good coach on that staff stumbles across this thread and assumes the worst.
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Post by doitforthekids on Oct 24, 2019 4:53:53 GMT -6
You say they can’t coach “here” anymore. I take that to mean you coach in this program or are associated with it in some way? Have you been approached by admin during the season and offered the job once the deed is done and the current coach is fired? Or is this strictly daydreaming/theoretical? If you coach in this program, are you the only one fortunate enough to escape the aforementioned toxic mindset? If you are “here” and have been tapped as the prospective replacement by admin, and you have good relationships / friends on staff or with the HC, it might be a good idea to let them know so you don’t appear to be like so many these days who openly proclaim their loyalty while maneuvering like a spineless s$&t for a HC job. If I were you and this is not just theoretical, I’d make sure I’d do what it took to preserve honor and relationships with guys with which I have coached. If I misunderstood the context of your posts and you’re not involved in the program of which you speak, say... as junior high HC, for example, Then please disregard my comments. If you are on staff in some capacity, I’d have a very frank conversation with the head man lest some other Toxic minded, no good coach on that staff stumbles across this thread and assumes the worst. I’m a WR coach and my coach just went through this in his first year, looking back and getting opinions for how to handle another situation like this in the future.
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Post by Defcord on Oct 24, 2019 5:31:00 GMT -6
Once hired, how do you tactfully let go the previous staff? I would need to because the "culture" or mindset of the entire staff is TOXIC, I have good relationships personally but they can't coach here anymore the the turnaround. Some coach other sports and will recruiting kids away if they aren't involved, some I would like to get back in eventually once the program is set. I think it would be best to just cut everyone and start new and fresh. How do you do so? Call a meeting? Just don't hire them? Call everyone in individually? Any suggestions? better off finding ways to make them quit of their own accord. I don't agree with this. There's enough BS in the world just be straight forward and move on.
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Post by rosey65 on Oct 24, 2019 6:50:28 GMT -6
Interview them. Make it a two-way interview, you are seeing if they would be a good fit for you, and THEY are seeing if your program is a good fit for them to be in.
Be very precise and specific on your expectations for your program, let them decide if they want to be a part of the program or not.
Firing them and then asking them back has to be more toxic than whatever situation they are in now...
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Post by vicvinegar on Oct 24, 2019 7:01:55 GMT -6
I agree with what some others are saying. I think you let them know that you are opening up all coaching positions and they will have to reapply for their position. Interviews for the ones that have zero percent of coming back is simply a courtesy interview for the time they have put into the program. The ones you think could change (you were thinking about bringing back at some point), I would hire and maybe give them a lesser role. That said, as @newhope pointed out, you better have someone that can actually replace them.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2019 8:22:35 GMT -6
better off finding ways to make them quit of their own accord. I don't agree with this. There's enough BS in the world just be straight forward and move on. If they quit on their own, far more likely to go quietly, accepting their desired fate.
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Post by rosey65 on Oct 24, 2019 8:24:48 GMT -6
I don't agree with this. There's enough BS in the world just be straight forward and move on. If they quit on their own, far more likely to go quietly, accepting their desired fate. Making the old staff quit instead of talking openly and bluntly with them before the season starts sounds like a pretty toxic environment
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Post by Defcord on Oct 24, 2019 8:36:53 GMT -6
I don't agree with this. There's enough BS in the world just be straight forward and move on. If they quit on their own, far more likely to go quietly, accepting their desired fate. I disagree again. If you just pisss them off to the point of quitting, I think they are going to be a lot more adamant in their disdain for you and the spread of their dissatisfaction. Even if you are right that they would part more peacefully, it would just feel dirty. I don't like to intentionally be a jerk to people. Seems like a weird means to accomplish the end goal. Can you give an example of how you would go about this? I just can't get my head wrapped around how it would be beneficial.
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Post by fantom on Oct 24, 2019 8:38:52 GMT -6
I don't agree with this. There's enough BS in the world just be straight forward and move on. If they quit on their own, far more likely to go quietly, accepting their desired fate. What are you willing to do to make them quit? How long do you expect it to take?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2019 8:57:31 GMT -6
If they quit on their own, far more likely to go quietly, accepting their desired fate. I disagree again. If you just pisss them off to the point of quitting, I think they are going to be a lot more adamant in their disdain for you and the spread of their dissatisfaction. Even if you are right that they would part more peacefully, it would just feel dirty. I don't like to intentionally be a jerk to people. Seems like a weird means to accomplish the end goal. Can you give an example of how you would go about this? I just can't get my head wrapped around how it would be beneficial. who said anything about pissing them off. Example? 6 am coaches Meeting. Mon through thursday. Noon sat coaches meeting for game plan. Hc is going home at 6. If it not done, we will come back and complete on sunday. at 2 and stay till it done. That will have 25 page scouting report done before we go home sunday. We are also going to have personnel sheet done, laundry done. Locker room will be de stinked. Your presence in the weight room is a requirement. During summer you have to be there for 3 of 4. You are responsible for your kids meeting requirement in weight room and conditioning. If they do not you are responsible for make ups. Installs before practice. You lead it. So you will WORK monday through sunday, mostly because you are lazy, unprepared, undisciplined human being, during season. During a season, you will probably leave the house at 530 am, and pending responsibilty, not home till 630-7 ish. Oh then hc is constantly delivering reminders about grade checks, missed or late practices, weight rm attendence.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2019 9:01:00 GMT -6
If they quit on their own, far more likely to go quietly, accepting their desired fate. What are you willing to do to make them quit? How long do you expect it to take? about half the left over staff quit after yr 1. It was to much they said it. After yr 2 most of the old was gone. I am in year 3. 1 old guard guy who is to stupid to quit, his right hand man and me, hc has been here 4 yrs.
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Post by Defcord on Oct 24, 2019 9:01:58 GMT -6
I disagree again. If you just pisss them off to the point of quitting, I think they are going to be a lot more adamant in their disdain for you and the spread of their dissatisfaction. Even if you are right that they would part more peacefully, it would just feel dirty. I don't like to intentionally be a jerk to people. Seems like a weird means to accomplish the end goal. Can you give an example of how you would go about this? I just can't get my head wrapped around how it would be beneficial. who said anything about pissing them off. Example? 6 am coaches Meeting. Mon through thursday. Noon sat coaches meeting for game plan. Hc is going home at 6. If it not done, we will come back and complete on sunday. at 2 and stay till it done. That will have 25 page scouting report done before we go home sunday. We are also going to have personnel sheet done, laundry done. Locker room will be de stinked. Your presence in the weight room is a requirement. During summer you have to be there for 3 of 4. You are responsible for your kids meeting requirement in weight room and conditioning. If they do not you are responsible for make ups. Installs before practice. You lead it. So you will WORK monday through sunday, mostly because you are lazy, unprepared, undisciplined human being, during season. During a season, you will probably leave the house at 530 am, and pending responsibilty, not home till 630-7 ish. Oh then hc is constantly delivering reminders about grade checks, missed or late practices, weight rm attendence. Okay fair enough on pissing them off. Is your list of things you are asking them to do things you are going to do anyway and you think it will weed out the bad coaches? Or is some of that stuff you are asking only to overload them and get rid of them? What if they accomplish all of those tasks? Are you keeping them because they proved themselves?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2019 9:07:36 GMT -6
who said anything about pissing them off. Example? 6 am coaches Meeting. Mon through thursday. Noon sat coaches meeting for game plan. Hc is going home at 6. If it not done, we will come back and complete on sunday. at 2 and stay till it done. That will have 25 page scouting report done before we go home sunday. We are also going to have personnel sheet done, laundry done. Locker room will be de stinked. Your presence in the weight room is a requirement. During summer you have to be there for 3 of 4. You are responsible for your kids meeting requirement in weight room and conditioning. If they do not you are responsible for make ups. Installs before practice. You lead it. So you will WORK monday through sunday, mostly because you are lazy, unprepared, undisciplined human being, during season. During a season, you will probably leave the house at 530 am, and pending responsibilty, not home till 630-7 ish. Oh then hc is constantly delivering reminders about grade checks, missed or late practices, weight rm attendence. Okay fair enough on pissing them off. Is your list of things you are asking them to do things you are going to do anyway and you think it will weed out the bad coaches? Or is some of that stuff you are asking only to overload them and get rid of them? What if they accomplish all of those tasks? Are you keeping them because they proved themselves? at least half quit pretty much every year. Its going to be that way every year, but every year it gets a little more efficient.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2019 9:09:25 GMT -6
who said anything about pissing them off. Example? 6 am coaches Meeting. Mon through thursday. Noon sat coaches meeting for game plan. Hc is going home at 6. If it not done, we will come back and complete on sunday. at 2 and stay till it done. That will have 25 page scouting report done before we go home sunday. We are also going to have personnel sheet done, laundry done. Locker room will be de stinked. Your presence in the weight room is a requirement. During summer you have to be there for 3 of 4. You are responsible for your kids meeting requirement in weight room and conditioning. If they do not you are responsible for make ups. Installs before practice. You lead it. So you will WORK monday through sunday, mostly because you are lazy, unprepared, undisciplined human being, during season. During a season, you will probably leave the house at 530 am, and pending responsibilty, not home till 630-7 ish. Oh then hc is constantly delivering reminders about grade checks, missed or late practices, weight rm attendence. Okay fair enough on pissing them off. Is your list of things you are asking them to do things you are going to do anyway and you think it will weed out the bad coaches? Or is some of that stuff you are asking only to overload them and get rid of them? What if they accomplish all of those tasks? Are you keeping them because they proved themselves? if they can hold up, yes, please stay.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2019 9:10:56 GMT -6
who said anything about pissing them off. Example? 6 am coaches Meeting. Mon through thursday. Noon sat coaches meeting for game plan. Hc is going home at 6. If it not done, we will come back and complete on sunday. at 2 and stay till it done. That will have 25 page scouting report done before we go home sunday. We are also going to have personnel sheet done, laundry done. Locker room will be de stinked. Your presence in the weight room is a requirement. During summer you have to be there for 3 of 4. You are responsible for your kids meeting requirement in weight room and conditioning. If they do not you are responsible for make ups. Installs before practice. You lead it. So you will WORK monday through sunday, mostly because you are lazy, unprepared, undisciplined human being, during season. During a season, you will probably leave the house at 530 am, and pending responsibilty, not home till 630-7 ish. Oh then hc is constantly delivering reminders about grade checks, missed or late practices, weight rm attendence. Okay fair enough on pissing them off. Is your list of things you are asking them to do things you are going to do anyway and you think it will weed out the bad coaches? Or is some of that stuff you are asking only to overload them and get rid of them? What if they accomplish all of those tasks? Are you keeping them because they proved themselves? And I work for the hc. I chose to work for him for this reason.
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Post by rosey65 on Oct 24, 2019 9:17:04 GMT -6
Okay fair enough on pissing them off. Is your list of things you are asking them to do things you are going to do anyway and you think it will weed out the bad coaches? Or is some of that stuff you are asking only to overload them and get rid of them? What if they accomplish all of those tasks? Are you keeping them because they proved themselves? And I work for the hc. I chose to work for him for this reason. This isn't pissing them off, it is simply having expectations met. Letting them know these are the expectations up front, before they even agree to work with you, would be a very not toxic way of weeding out coaches who dont have the level of dedication needed for the program. Back to @doitforthekids Dont weed out toxicity by being toxic. Have standards, express them. And to be honest, I dont know of a coach worth a chit who'd be willing or able to maintain that routine. Maybe it's a regional cultural thing, but the only coaches in our area who are the 7-day-grinders simply do it because they dont know how to be an effective coach
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2019 9:26:07 GMT -6
And I work for the hc. I chose to work for him for this reason. This isn't pissing them off, it is simply having expectations met. Letting them know these are the expectations up front, before they even agree to work with you, would be a very not toxic way of weeding out coaches who dont have the level of dedication needed for the program. Back to @doitforthekids Dont weed out toxicity by being toxic. Have standards, express them. And to be honest, I dont know of a coach worth a chit who'd be willing or able to maintain that routine. Maybe it's a regional cultural thing, but the only coaches in our area who are the 7-day-grinders simply do it because they dont know how to be an effective coach my boss is a grinder. He will keep the staff if necessary. Its really only 6 Days. And 4 hrs. But when half does do their monday through thursday, 6 pm turns into 9 pm sunday. That is his reputation. Grind. And we do whatever games we find, hold of. V. Arch rival, we broke down their 5 games, dug up last year scouting report, put that in their. And if they hire a coordinator, we will dig up their game. All of this should be done by time we play jv game thursday.
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Post by Defcord on Oct 24, 2019 10:56:24 GMT -6
This isn't pissing them off, it is simply having expectations met. Letting them know these are the expectations up front, before they even agree to work with you, would be a very not toxic way of weeding out coaches who dont have the level of dedication needed for the program. Back to @doitforthekids Dont weed out toxicity by being toxic. Have standards, express them. And to be honest, I dont know of a coach worth a chit who'd be willing or able to maintain that routine. Maybe it's a regional cultural thing, but the only coaches in our area who are the 7-day-grinders simply do it because they dont know how to be an effective coach my boss is a grinder. He will keep the staff if necessary. Its really only 6 Days. And 4 hrs. But when half does do their monday through thursday, 6 pm turns into 9 pm sunday. That is his reputation. Grind. And we do whatever games we find, hold of. V. Arch rival, we broke down their 5 games, dug up last year scouting report, put that in their. And if they hire a coordinator, we will dig up their game. All of this should be done by time we play jv game thursday. So do you guys keep a guy who meets expectation, but still isn't the best as far as a buy in or culture guy, like the OP said? I respect people who work hard. If you guys are going to be working hard as part of a plan to obtain your goals, I think that is a good thing. But if you are working hard just to run off coaches that you don't want around, I think there's more efficient ways to get rid of a guy.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2019 11:10:48 GMT -6
my boss is a grinder. He will keep the staff if necessary. Its really only 6 Days. And 4 hrs. But when half does do their monday through thursday, 6 pm turns into 9 pm sunday. That is his reputation. Grind. And we do whatever games we find, hold of. V. Arch rival, we broke down their 5 games, dug up last year scouting report, put that in their. And if they hire a coordinator, we will dig up their game. All of this should be done by time we play jv game thursday. So do you guys keep a guy who meets expectation, but still isn't the best as far as a buy in or culture guy, like the OP said? I respect people who work hard. If you guys are going to be working hard as part of a plan to obtain your goals, I think that is a good thing. But if you are working hard just to run off coaches that you don't want around, I think there's more efficient ways to get rid of a guy. It is the culture he wants. Guys who take of their buisness, and want to get better, coaches players alike. He just runs them off because its to much for em. Its his program. It what he wants. The problem is there are lots of holes in practice of this way of doing things. Bottom line is you cannot fake it. Ive seen guys try, by week 3, there done. There looking for next job. Our dc will be out the door if anything presents as better. Jv is practically in mutiny cause "its not their job." Lber has a hc job waiting him when daddy says its ok. And now wants to beca family man. There is no rah rah job here. Our d line is our hype guy, but he wants out. And my hc? Says " we'll win without you.
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Post by rosey65 on Oct 24, 2019 11:20:54 GMT -6
So do you guys keep a guy who meets expectation, but still isn't the best as far as a buy in or culture guy, like the OP said? I respect people who work hard. If you guys are going to be working hard as part of a plan to obtain your goals, I think that is a good thing. But if you are working hard just to run off coaches that you don't want around, I think there's more efficient ways to get rid of a guy. It is the culture he wants. Guys who take of their buisness, and want to get better, coaches players alike. He just runs them off because its to much for em. Its his program. It what he wants. The problem is there are lots of holes in practice of this way of doing things. Bottom line is you cannot fake it. Ive seen guys try, by week 3, there done. There looking for next job. Our dc will be out the door if anything presents as better. Jv is practically in mutiny cause "its not their job." Lber has a hc job waiting him when daddy says its ok. And now wants to beca family man. There is no rah rah job here. Our d line is our hype guy, but he wants out. And my hc? Says " we'll win without you. I can respect that!! I wouldn't stick around long, I wouldn't last a day at this point in my career, but I respect him and his ways.
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Post by drmackey on Oct 24, 2019 11:56:55 GMT -6
Be honest.
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Post by Defcord on Oct 24, 2019 12:17:58 GMT -6
So do you guys keep a guy who meets expectation, but still isn't the best as far as a buy in or culture guy, like the OP said? I respect people who work hard. If you guys are going to be working hard as part of a plan to obtain your goals, I think that is a good thing. But if you are working hard just to run off coaches that you don't want around, I think there's more efficient ways to get rid of a guy. It is the culture he wants. Guys who take of their buisness, and want to get better, coaches players alike. He just runs them off because its to much for em. Its his program. It what he wants. The problem is there are lots of holes in practice of this way of doing things. Bottom line is you cannot fake it. Ive seen guys try, by week 3, there done. There looking for next job. Our dc will be out the door if anything presents as better. Jv is practically in mutiny cause "its not their job." Lber has a hc job waiting him when daddy says its ok. And now wants to beca family man. There is no rah rah job here. Our d line is our hype guy, but he wants out. And my hc? Says " we'll win without you. So he would keep all of the guys from OP around and just let it sort itself out?
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