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Post by gccwolverine on Oct 14, 2019 21:00:33 GMT -6
If a coach is screwing with other school sanctioned events, the coach has earned what is coming to him. We are out at noonish on sat, here for 4 hrs on sundays. Kids are here sat morning for about 90 min. We do not mess with sunday mornings, college football at all. Holidays if we need to but is over in time to do thanksgiving at noon for example. We do not interfere with hc. We hold am practice to get work in though. 4 hours on Sundays are ridiculous. There’s no way you need that much work in a week. If you're scripting everything on O and D for all your practices and drawing cards for every look on both sides of the ball that's 4 hours of work right there easily. If you're going out and winging it then more power to you but I can't operate like that and don't enjoy / haven't enjoyed being on staffs that attempt too.
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Post by zonedive60 on Oct 14, 2019 22:16:57 GMT -6
4 hours on Sundays are ridiculous. There’s no way you need that much work in a week. If you're scripting everything on O and D for all your practices and drawing cards for every look on both sides of the ball that's 4 hours of work right there easily. If you're going out and winging it then more power to you but I can't operate like that and don't enjoy / haven't enjoyed being on staffs that attempt too. Age of the internet and texting. It can get done without anyone seeing each other on the weekend
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Post by fantom on Oct 14, 2019 22:27:20 GMT -6
If you're scripting everything on O and D for all your practices and drawing cards for every look on both sides of the ball that's 4 hours of work right there easily. If you're going out and winging it then more power to you but I can't operate like that and don't enjoy / haven't enjoyed being on staffs that attempt too. Age of the internet and texting. It can get done without anyone seeing each other on the weekend Sometimes things are better said when everybody is in the room. When did you start coaching?
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Post by gccwolverine on Oct 14, 2019 22:41:27 GMT -6
People say that all the time about it being the age of technology... I like technology and I use it myself but what I've really found though with this approach of we can do it all without meeting is that things either don't get done in a timely fashion, or get done half assed, or not everyone is on the same page, or there's a lack of understanding about certain things amongst the staff. I've found that things devolve to the least common denominator under this type set up. Currently we do all of our breakdown stuff on our own at home. HC brings everyone (staff) in on Sunday's (kids don't come in on weekends which I love) that staff meeting isn't nearly as long as I'd like it to be if it were my call (but it's not) or as long as I think it needs to be. It's about 2-3 hours. We "review" Fridays game (each position guy talks about his group each coordinator talks about the unit as a whole), we've got some guys that it's painfully clear haven't watched the entire tape or haven't bothered to make detailed notes and corrections. Then we talk about the up coming opponent this is coordinator lead again it becomes apparent that some guys haven't watched the scout film accept to get their breakdown data done. Cards aren't drawn, practices for the week aren't planned in detail, not everything is fleshed out as much as it could be or should be in my opinion but it's not my decision and I roll with the it and do my best with the situation we have. I as the DC draw the cards each morning in my classroom and then get them posted on Hudl for our defensive position coaches. Our offense doesn't draw scout D cards which is mind boggling to me. Indy each day for most of our position coaches (who aren't named DL and LBs) gets hastily put together about 30 minutes before practice sitting around in the coaches office and thats also frustrating. I don't think you can be really effective this way not taking time to sit down and think deeply about how everything works together. I think to do it right there's some degree of time sacrifice that has to occur on the part of the staff as a whole. But that's just me.
For the record I'm a 31 year old 2nd year DC, coordinated on the offensive side for 2 years prior to this. So I'm not some 63 year old old head who want people off his lawn. I think my need and want for order, planning, and meeting comes from the 2 years I spent as a GA DL coach at the collegiate level.
I always say "this isn't reccess and it shouldn't be treated as such" we've got some guys that just seem to want to roll the balls out and let the kids play. I don't think it can or should be done that way. Maybe I'm wrong though.
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Post by tripsclosed on Oct 15, 2019 1:05:17 GMT -6
Our school brings in portable lights for hoecoming "Lights Week". All the sports play a night game. I encourage them to support other sports but to leave early enough to get enough sleep if it goes long or starts late. Lack of sleep is one of our players main problems. Balance as was mentioned. We never meet on Saturdays or Sundays-never have, though we do have about half of our games on saturdays. I had an AD a long time ago that said I needed to cut practices short all week so the kids could coach the powder puff teams. We lost that homecoming game 55-0. She couldn't understand why I was upset at her that week. Coach, I'm not assuming you were trying to argue this, but if you got beat 55-0 that week, I don't think practicing your normal amount of time that week would have led to you winning, or even having a competitive game. I wasn't there, sometimes the score isn't an accurate reflection of how it went down, but 55-0? Lol.
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Post by mrjvi on Oct 15, 2019 5:58:44 GMT -6
No I never had delusions we would win that game, but I had a problem with the AD's actions and expectations. It was VERY early in my 37 year career and it left a bad taste. Later as we became good, she would not have considered asking that. It was just an experience about homecoming.
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Post by gccwolverine on Oct 15, 2019 6:00:02 GMT -6
Just off the top of my head some specific issues beyond what I've already mentioned that come up for us due to lack of meeting:
Because Offensive scout D Cards aren't drawn for inside or team we spend an inordinate amount of time on the practice field saying, "what do you want here," or "give me this, no put him there and when this guy goes in motion he does this." F**k that put it on a card and lets go.
Because of the above we don't guarantee that certain plays get run into certain problematic looks throughout the week. Sometimes we get this covered just through the organic process of winging it but alot of the times we don't.
We don't and can't ensure that certain kids get to see certain looks. There might be a certain route a team runs and I want to ensure that the 1st set of dbs see it out of 2 different overages and the 2nd set of dbs see it as well I can't ensure that because we don't sit around and script out our practices. I don't get the opportunity to say ok on Monday in outside period we are going to see this 12 plays and I want the DB rotation to be this so that so and so gets to see this play out of this look.
Indy in some groups aligns closely with what the kids are going to be asked to see, do, and perform in team, but in alot of groups on alot of days it doesn't and if it does its out of the sheer chance of the wing it method.
Do I think staffs need to meet for 12 hours? No, but I think they need to meet, talk and discuss deeply about some items get on the same page and put a comprehensive plan together.
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Post by rwb32497 on Oct 15, 2019 6:00:44 GMT -6
Homecoming at the school I have been at for the last 7 years is nuts. We do all the normal stuff like theme days and such. There is only two or three real hotels in this town and they get booked. The crazy stuff is the parties that start Thursday nights for the reunion classes. On homecoming, morning our school is bombarded by a few THOUSAND extra people. They start arriving around 745 AM. Our assesmbly starts at 9AM. It typically last until 1130-1200. We get a short break for lunch and then the pep rally around 2. After the Assesmbly/pep rally former graduates rent out local bars, clubs, and venues and have day parties from 12ish until game time. These day parties are complete with DJ's, and open bars in the middle of the day sometimes. One of the venues is directly across from our middle school. One year there were drunks in the venue parking lot taking a whiz in the middle of the day. My point is homecoming here is a total distraction. You would have to see it to believe it! This year we have a 1st year principal that is also a former Marine. I can't wait to see his face Friday morning when this craziness starts.
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Post by MICoach on Oct 15, 2019 6:22:10 GMT -6
Just off the top of my head some specific issues beyond what I've already mentioned that come up for us due to lack of meeting: Because Offensive scout D Cards aren't drawn for inside or team we spend an inordinate amount of time on the practice field saying, "what do you want here," or "give me this, no put him there and when this guy goes in motion he does this." F**k that put it on a card and lets go. Because of the above we don't guarantee that certain plays get run into certain problematic looks throughout the week. Sometimes we get this covered just through the organic process of winging it but alot of the times we don't. We don't and can't ensure that certain kids get to see certain looks. There might be a certain route a team runs and I want to ensure that the 1st set of dbs see it out of 2 different overages and the 2nd set of dbs see it as well I can't ensure that because we don't sit around and script out our practices. I don't get the opportunity to say ok on Monday in outside period we are going to see this 12 plays and I want the DB rotation to be this so that so and so gets to see this play out of this look. Indy in some groups aligns closely with what the kids are going to be asked to see, do, and perform in team, but in alot of groups on alot of days it doesn't and if it does its out of the sheer chance of the wing it method. Do I think staffs need to meet for 12 hours? No, but I think they need to meet, talk and discuss deeply about some items get on the same page and put a comprehensive plan together. I can see both sides of this. At my last school we would draw scout cards for almost every period and have a huge binder every week. It let us take what was on film and put it up for the kids to see so they were in the right places. Of course they still screwed it up all the time but at least it was there. At my current school we do some scout offensive cards for the defensive periods (wishbone/full house T/veer/etc aren't looks we already have in our playbook), but we just tell the defense if we want odd, under, over, or stack box and what coverage. We're lucky in that our D has all of those looks available and gives us a good look. During blitz pickup periods we just want them to throw everything at us. I haven't drawn a single scout card for offense this year and it's worked just as well as it did at my previous school.
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Post by gccwolverine on Oct 15, 2019 7:08:45 GMT -6
Just off the top of my head some specific issues beyond what I've already mentioned that come up for us due to lack of meeting: Because Offensive scout D Cards aren't drawn for inside or team we spend an inordinate amount of time on the practice field saying, "what do you want here," or "give me this, no put him there and when this guy goes in motion he does this." F**k that put it on a card and lets go. Because of the above we don't guarantee that certain plays get run into certain problematic looks throughout the week. Sometimes we get this covered just through the organic process of winging it but alot of the times we don't. We don't and can't ensure that certain kids get to see certain looks. There might be a certain route a team runs and I want to ensure that the 1st set of dbs see it out of 2 different overages and the 2nd set of dbs see it as well I can't ensure that because we don't sit around and script out our practices. I don't get the opportunity to say ok on Monday in outside period we are going to see this 12 plays and I want the DB rotation to be this so that so and so gets to see this play out of this look. Indy in some groups aligns closely with what the kids are going to be asked to see, do, and perform in team, but in alot of groups on alot of days it doesn't and if it does its out of the sheer chance of the wing it method. Do I think staffs need to meet for 12 hours? No, but I think they need to meet, talk and discuss deeply about some items get on the same page and put a comprehensive plan together. I can see both sides of this. At my last school we would draw scout cards for almost every period and have a huge binder every week. It let us take what was on film and put it up for the kids to see so they were in the right places. Of course they still screwed it up all the time but at least it was there. At my current school we do some scout offensive cards for the defensive periods (wishbone/full house T/veer/etc aren't looks we already have in our playbook), but we just tell the defense if we want odd, under, over, or stack box and what coverage. We're lucky in that our D has all of those looks available and gives us a good look. During blitz pickup periods we just want them to throw everything at us. I haven't drawn a single scout card for offense this year and it's worked just as well as it did at my previous school. The other thing that happens as a direct result of not meeting for any sort of meaningful length of time is that invariably every Tuesday or Wednesday someone on staff says, "hey have you noticed when ......." "what if we did this when they......" well F*ck guys its Wednesday and I'm not putting in something new, or making a change to the plan on Wednesday with 1 day left to practice it. In my opinion all that should be done and set over the weekend and we should be looking on Tuesday and Wednesday to take things out not throw things in. But you can't get that to happen if you aren't meeting discussing and really grinding the film as a staff together. And sometimes these are really good suggestions or thoughts that if I would have heard or had to consider on Sunday would be apart of the plan of attack.
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Post by coachcb on Oct 15, 2019 7:41:30 GMT -6
If you're scripting everything on O and D for all your practices and drawing cards for every look on both sides of the ball that's 4 hours of work right there easily. If you're going out and winging it then more power to you but I can't operate like that and don't enjoy / haven't enjoyed being on staffs that attempt too. Age of the internet and texting. It can get done without anyone seeing each other on the weekend
Meeting face to face for a few hours a week is a necessity; there's things that need to be discussed with tone and you can accomplish more in a few hour long meeting than texting all weekend. This is something that I am finding many coaches don't understand these days; they view staff meetings as a waste of time because they think we should just be texting and emailing stuff. Texting and emailing takes up more time anyway. In one hour, we can actually talk about issues and solve them; it'd take at least twice that long with technology. And, staffs needs to develop a professional relationship with one another; that means having actual conversations and interacting. We complain about the kids lacking social skills because of technology but I, personally, am running into more adults and coaches who are just as bad.
If coaches don't like having long meetings, then they need to take care of their chit. We don't meet long on weeks when the staff do their HUDL assignments and contribute to the film breakdown Google Docs I start and share. When they don't, we're doing all of the stuff they could have been doing on their own.
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Post by RunThePistol on Oct 15, 2019 8:24:28 GMT -6
I am one of those that need to find a new profession as well. On the flip side of that the team I played in high school for, we together only lost 1 homecoming in four years. As a coach with 12 years of experience(volunteering, student assistant at the university I attended, and high school coach) I've been fortunate to only lose 1 homecoming game. I am extremely proud of that fact as well. My philosophy F*&$ Homecoming.
As far as the work load, most of us know what we are signing up for in advance. I've been on staffs where we stay after games to watch the film on Friday nights, be up at the field house at 8 am on Saturday and stay until 1, then come in on Sundays from 1 until whenever we felt good about our game plan. I have found that the true "100% full football, all the time" are rare breeds.
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Post by MICoach on Oct 15, 2019 8:53:21 GMT -6
I can see both sides of this. At my last school we would draw scout cards for almost every period and have a huge binder every week. It let us take what was on film and put it up for the kids to see so they were in the right places. Of course they still screwed it up all the time but at least it was there. At my current school we do some scout offensive cards for the defensive periods (wishbone/full house T/veer/etc aren't looks we already have in our playbook), but we just tell the defense if we want odd, under, over, or stack box and what coverage. We're lucky in that our D has all of those looks available and gives us a good look. During blitz pickup periods we just want them to throw everything at us. I haven't drawn a single scout card for offense this year and it's worked just as well as it did at my previous school. The other thing that happens as a direct result of not meeting for any sort of meaningful length of time is that invariably every Tuesday or Wednesday someone on staff says, "hey have you noticed when ......." "what if we did this when they......" well F*ck guys its Wednesday and I'm not putting in something new, or making a change to the plan on Wednesday with 1 day left to practice it. In my opinion all that should be done and set over the weekend and we should be looking on Tuesday and Wednesday to take things out not throw things in. But you can't get that to happen if you aren't meeting discussing and really grinding the film as a staff together. And sometimes these are really good suggestions or thoughts that if I would have heard or had to consider on Sunday would be apart of the plan of attack. Yeah I can see that. We still meet on Sundays our current staff, and I think that meeting time is important/helpful for the reasons you listed. We just don't spend 2-3 hours drawing scout cards and scripting like we did at my old school. Inside drill we always run our base runs with base motions so we don't script it and the HC scripts team periods either the night before or during the day on his off period.
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Post by wolverine55 on Oct 15, 2019 10:39:53 GMT -6
I agree with the meeting time being necessary. For a variety of reasons, we didn't meet this Sunday when we normally do...and I hated it. Our meetings aren't long at all, but as said, I think some things are discussed better and decisions are made better in person.
As for as the original topic, I've honestly never coached anywhere where a member of the football coaching staff has enjoyed Homecoming.
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Post by paydirt18 on Oct 15, 2019 10:52:35 GMT -6
If a coach is screwing with other school sanctioned events, the coach has earned what is coming to him. We are out at noonish on sat, here for 4 hrs on sundays. Kids are here sat morning for about 90 min. We do not mess with sunday mornings, college football at all. Holidays if we need to but is over in time to do thanksgiving at noon for example. We do not interfere with hc. We hold am practice to get work in though. 4 hours on Sundays are ridiculous. There’s no way you need that much work in a week. Couldn't agree more. I'm now in the middle of year 23 and I have learned over the years that bringing the kids in on Saturdays and then the coaches either on Saturday or Sunday is overkill. Hudl has changed much of that for the positive. Never understood what you expect to get out of kid when they play a game on Friday night, probably grab a pizza with family and/or friends, then make them turn around and be in at 8am on a Saturday morning. I also think that coaches who are 'burning the midnight oil" or are so incredibly "stressed" because of the "season" may need to reevaluate why and what they're doing. Especially if they have a wife and kids....
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Post by paydirt18 on Oct 15, 2019 10:53:27 GMT -6
4 hours on Sundays are ridiculous. There’s no way you need that much work in a week. If you're scripting everything on O and D for all your practices and drawing cards for every look on both sides of the ball that's 4 hours of work right there easily. If you're going out and winging it then more power to you but I can't operate like that and don't enjoy / haven't enjoyed being on staffs that attempt too. Use hudl for practice scripts - even allows you to tag film clips to it. 4 hours is insane.
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Post by gccwolverine on Oct 15, 2019 10:56:34 GMT -6
If you're scripting everything on O and D for all your practices and drawing cards for every look on both sides of the ball that's 4 hours of work right there easily. If you're going out and winging it then more power to you but I can't operate like that and don't enjoy / haven't enjoyed being on staffs that attempt too. Use hudl for practice scripts - even allows you to tag film clips to it. 4 hours is insane. I use Hudl practice scripts for everything. 4 hours is not insane between breakdown, Friday review and corrections, game planning, and practice planning for the week. Last week I logged 13 hours on Hudl alone when I looked at the time logs.
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Post by zonedive60 on Oct 15, 2019 11:01:47 GMT -6
4 hours on Sundays are ridiculous. There’s no way you need that much work in a week. Couldn't agree more. I'm now in the middle of year 23 and I have learned over the years that bringing the kids in on Saturdays and then the coaches either on Saturday or Sunday is overkill. Hudl has changed much of that for the positive. Never understood what you expect to get out of kid when they play a game on Friday night, probably grab a pizza with family and/or friends, then make them turn around and be in at 8am on a Saturday morning. I also think that coaches who are 'burning the midnight oil" or are so incredibly "stressed" because of the "season" may need to reevaluate why and what they're doing. Especially if they have a wife and kids.... This. This is it. A lot of guys use coaching as an out to not take care of business at home, and then wear it like a badge of honor about how much you work.
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Post by fantom on Oct 15, 2019 11:02:24 GMT -6
Use hudl for practice scripts - even allows you to tag film clips to it. 4 hours is insane. I use Hudl practice scripts for everything. 4 hours is not insane between breakdown, Friday review and corrections, game planning, and practice planning for the week. Last week I logged 13 hours on Hudl alone when I looked at the time logs. I'm curious about this. Guys who spend meeting time planning, how much do your practices change from week to week?
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Post by zonedive60 on Oct 15, 2019 11:04:07 GMT -6
I use Hudl practice scripts for everything. 4 hours is not insane between breakdown, Friday review and corrections, game planning, and practice planning for the week. Last week I logged 13 hours on Hudl alone when I looked at the time logs. I'm curious about this. Guys who spend meeting time planning, how much do your practices change from week to week? The idea that your practices change drastically enough to justify meetings of that length tell me either the way you practice sucks and you don’t know what you’re doing, or you just are a workaholic who likes to brag on time spent at the field house.
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Post by zonedive60 on Oct 15, 2019 11:07:47 GMT -6
If your positions coaches look out of sorts on a weekly bases, it isn’t because they didn’t have a meeting or didn’t meet enough. It’s because they suck at coaching
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Post by gccwolverine on Oct 15, 2019 11:08:00 GMT -6
I use Hudl practice scripts for everything. 4 hours is not insane between breakdown, Friday review and corrections, game planning, and practice planning for the week. Last week I logged 13 hours on Hudl alone when I looked at the time logs. I'm curious about this. Guys who spend meeting time planning, how much do your practices change from week to week? Structure of practice doesn't change at all. Special, Special, Indy O, Inside/Outside O, Team O, Indy D, Inside/Outside D, Team D Go home. What changes / needs to happen in my opinion is everything within those individual segments is fully planned and choreographed. I want to get as close as we can to every call practiced, against every possible look, with every kid that could possibly be in the game getting work at them. That doesn't just happen that takes some work.
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Post by zonedive60 on Oct 15, 2019 11:09:27 GMT -6
I'm curious about this. Guys who spend meeting time planning, how much do your practices change from week to week? Structure of practice doesn't change at all. Special, Special, Indy O, Inside/Outside O, Team O, Indy D, Inside/Outside D, Team D Go home. What changes / needs to happen in my opinion is everything within those individual segments is fully planned and choreographed. I want to get as close aw we can to every call practiced, against every possible look, with every kid that could possibly be in the game getting work at them. That doesn't just happen that takes some work. Law of diminishing returns is super strong here. A whole lot of work for no gain here. Don’t tell me it’s necessary either. De La Salle under Ladouceur didn’t even have practice plans.
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Post by IronmanFootball on Oct 15, 2019 11:31:29 GMT -6
I like meeting but only for 2 hours on Saturday. Then go home and do your job as a grown ass adult. 1 hour review of last week. 1 hour preview of next week. Then go home and get it all together.
I make "5 play review" and "5 play preview" playlists for the kids.
Review: coaches have to break down each player on the 5 plays. Preview: coaches have to talk alignment and rate each player on 5 plays we're going to play. (QB/S, WR/CB, OL/DL, RB/LB)
I have extended review and preview playlists for the OL/H (my groups). Sometimes even with what happened last year if we've played that staff before.
Google sheet with room to put what plays will work and a synopsis of the opponent pos you're in charge of (QB/S, WR/CB, OL/DL, RB/LB)
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Post by IronmanFootball on Oct 15, 2019 11:33:06 GMT -6
Couldn't agree more. I'm now in the middle of year 23 and I have learned over the years that bringing the kids in on Saturdays and then the coaches either on Saturday or Sunday is overkill. Hudl has changed much of that for the positive. Never understood what you expect to get out of kid when they play a game on Friday night, probably grab a pizza with family and/or friends, then make them turn around and be in at 8am on a Saturday morning. I also think that coaches who are 'burning the midnight oil" or are so incredibly "stressed" because of the "season" may need to reevaluate why and what they're doing. Especially if they have a wife and kids.... This. This is it. A lot of guys use coaching as an out to not take care of business at home, and then wear it like a badge of honor about how much you work. I think dudes blatantly wait to leave the field house mid-week until kids are asleep and done eating. Then they leave early enough to avoid breakfast and morning whatever on Saturdays and get back during nap time. Why have kids?
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Post by zonedive60 on Oct 15, 2019 11:36:26 GMT -6
This. This is it. A lot of guys use coaching as an out to not take care of business at home, and then wear it like a badge of honor about how much you work. I think dudes blatantly wait to leave the field house mid-week until kids are asleep and done eating. Then they leave early enough to avoid breakfast and morning whatever on Saturdays and get back during nap time. Why have kids? Excellent question, but like I said that’s why they’re like that. They want no real life responsibility. Heads up guys. Coaching football is probably one of the least important responsibilities in our lives. Also hacks me off when those coaches bad mouth other coaches for having to run out after practice to pick their kids up.
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Post by gccwolverine on Oct 15, 2019 11:40:24 GMT -6
This. This is it. A lot of guys use coaching as an out to not take care of business at home, and then wear it like a badge of honor about how much you work. I think dudes blatantly wait to leave the field house mid-week until kids are asleep and done eating. Then they leave early enough to avoid breakfast and morning whatever on Saturdays and get back during nap time. Why have kids? Single here + no kids, and I love it and wouldn't have it any other way. So admittedly my view is clouded and biased. But I enjoy the work, I'm not a grind for the sake of grind guy I just want to make sure its organized, well structured, and we are out there accomplishing a purpose with everything we do, not just running around and winging it off the cuff.
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Post by IronmanFootball on Oct 15, 2019 11:40:29 GMT -6
I think dudes blatantly wait to leave the field house mid-week until kids are asleep and done eating. Then they leave early enough to avoid breakfast and morning whatever on Saturdays and get back during nap time. Why have kids? Excellent question, but like I said that’s why they’re like that. They want no real life responsibility. Heads up guys. Coaching football is probably one of the least important responsibilities in our lives. Also hacks me off when those coaches bad mouth other coaches for having to run out after practice to pick their kids up. And probably a 3 hour practice to boot
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Post by mrjvi on Oct 15, 2019 11:51:50 GMT -6
We don't meet on weekends unless the coordinators feel they need to. Having kids and coaches with their families on weekends helps keep good coaches with me. Very little turnover wherever I've been at least after I got good coaches on my staff and got rid of the poor ones.
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Post by mrjvi on Oct 15, 2019 11:52:52 GMT -6
We do meet daily after every practice.
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