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Aug 15, 2019 11:05:17 GMT -6
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Post by doitforthekids on Aug 15, 2019 11:05:17 GMT -6
Day of our first scrimmage, our star TB pops his ankle out of place by “falling in a hole in the yard”. SMH
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Post by larrymoe on Aug 15, 2019 17:53:04 GMT -6
Day of our first scrimmage, our star TB pops his ankle out of place by “falling in a hole in the yard”. SMH You don't believe him, or are you just pissed he can't make you look good? I mean, {censored} happens.
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Aug 16, 2019 7:53:20 GMT -6
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Post by doitforthekids on Aug 16, 2019 7:53:20 GMT -6
I’m pissed he fell in a hole, was playing football. I {censored} happens, just don’t be stupid and put yourself in that position.
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Post by rosey65 on Aug 16, 2019 9:22:22 GMT -6
Had our starting Center break his foot during pre-game warmups, another nearly cut off his toe stepping on a shell at the beach (FL problems, I know).
Yup, {***} happens. Dont know if it's worth being pissed at the kid. They'll get hurt anywhere.
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Post by Defcord on Aug 16, 2019 11:07:14 GMT -6
Had our starting Center break his foot during pre-game warmups, another nearly cut off his toe stepping on a shell at the beach (FL problems, I know). Yup, {***} happens. Dont know if it's worth being pissed at the kid. They'll get hurt anywhere. I think this is a good point. I also think perspective is pretty important. We are asking kids to come out for a sport that has inherent risks. Parent's could ask them to not put themselves in that situation and we would no longer have the game. "My stupid kid, tore his stupid ACL, playing stupid football, on a stupid field, for a stupid coach." Etc. Etc. My first year coaching my head coach make me tell my starting center he couldn't ride his skateboard during the season so he didn't get hurt and put us in a bad situation. He was a stud and it would have hurt us, but I still regret doing it. And I am not placing blame on HC, I agreed all the way. I wasn't mature enough at the time to realize that kids are kids, let them live their life and have a little fun. Sucks your kid is hurt, but it's just part of it.
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Aug 16, 2019 14:11:08 GMT -6
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Post by tripsclosed on Aug 16, 2019 14:11:08 GMT -6
Had our starting Center break his foot during pre-game warmups, another nearly cut off his toe stepping on a shell at the beach (FL problems, I know). Yup, {***} happens. Dont know if it's worth being pissed at the kid. They'll get hurt anywhere. I think this is a good point. I also think perspective is pretty important. We are asking kids to come out for a sport that has inherent risks. Parent's could ask them to not put themselves in that situation and we would no longer have the game. "My stupid kid, tore his stupid ACL, playing stupid football, on a stupid field, for a stupid coach." Etc. Etc. My first year coaching my head coach make me tell my starting center he couldn't ride his skateboard during the season so he didn't get hurt and put us in a bad situation. He was a stud and it would have hurt us, but I still regret doing it. And I am not placing blame on HC, I agreed all the way. I wasn't mature enough at the time to realize that kids are kids, let them live their life and have a little fun. Sucks your kid is hurt, but it's just part of it. On the one hand, I appreciate you wanting to let them live their lives, and I think that is good of you. At the same time, I don't think it is unreasonable to say that one of the conditions of being part of the team is not taking part in any unecessary activities that carry at least a decent amount of risk of injury. You have teammates and coaches who work hard, think about them. There's also the community that follows the team to think about. Just put it to them like this, you choose, which is more important to you, being part of the team, or skateboarding. Either one is fine, we won't think any less of you as a person if you want to skateboard, but if you want to be part of the team, here's the conditions.
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Post by larrymoe on Aug 16, 2019 14:25:39 GMT -6
Guys, it's {censored} HS football. Keep asking them to put a sport you care about a hell of a lot more than they do above having fun and see how many kids you get out.
{censored} happens. Adapt and overcome.
PS- think about your statement. Your pissed off a kid got hurt for a meaningless scrimmage because he was playing football. What are you going to tell him? Stop playing football so you can play football?
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Post by blb on Aug 16, 2019 15:08:53 GMT -6
Guys, it's {censored} HS football. Keep asking them to put a sport you care about a hell of a lot more than they do above having fun and see how many kids you get out. {censored} happens. Adapt and overcome. PS- think about your statement. Your pissed off a kid got hurt for a meaningless scrimmage because he was playing football. What are you going to tell him? Stop playing football so you can play football?
Yes, it's just HS football.
And yes coaches generally care about it more than most kids.
But it's not tennis, or golf, or other individual sports either.
It's a TEAM sport.
Teammates are counting on teammates to help them compete and have fun.
Losing is not fun.
If they become ineligible for academic reasons or violating training rules, can't play because they injured themselves away from the practice field, etc. - it doesn't just affect the individual. Or the coach.
It's NOT like playing "Fortnite" or other such games.
Kids can learn how to be part of something bigger than themselves by playing HS football - if they choose.
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Post by blb on Aug 16, 2019 16:10:25 GMT -6
Maybe off topic but has anybody else noticed that most if not all of the mass shooters since Columbine (1999) did not have in their bios that they played team sports including football?
Typically they were "loners," kept to themselves, had problems with interpersonal relationships including family.
Just sayin'.
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Aug 16, 2019 17:59:51 GMT -6
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Post by larrymoe on Aug 16, 2019 17:59:51 GMT -6
Maybe off topic but has anybody else noticed that most if not all of the mass shooters since Columbine (1999) did not have in their bios that they played team sports including football?
Typically they were "loners," kept to themselves, had problems with interpersonal relationships including family.
Just sayin'. Maybe not, but quite a few of them were helped along their way by football players and other team sport members being complete {censored} to them.
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Post by tothehouse on Aug 16, 2019 18:23:40 GMT -6
I think it's a couple things...
1. It's like NFL players not playing in preseason games. Coaches don't want them hurt before the real thing.
2. It's so close to the season. That makes a difference. If a kid pops his ankle in January he has time to fully recover. He pops it today he doesn't scrimmage tomorrow.
I agree that there is an inherent risk with pretty much everything in life. My son (current senior/football player) is playing in a Sunday pick up basketball league. I'm like..."it'd sure suck to do an ankle when didn't have to". He throws shade back at me knowing I always say there is risk in everything. But I'm like..."man...you worked really hard to get to this point. You don't have to do pick up hoops during football season". Getting into an accident or something is out of his control. He can control showing up to a pick up game.
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Aug 17, 2019 4:12:08 GMT -6
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Post by tripsclosed on Aug 17, 2019 4:12:08 GMT -6
I think it's a couple things... 1. It's like NFL players not playing in preseason games. Coaches don't want them hurt before the real thing. 2. It's so close to the season. That makes a difference. If a kid pops his ankle in January he has time to fully recover. He pops it today he doesn't scrimmage tomorrow. I agree that there is an inherent risk with pretty much everything in life. My son (current senior/football player) is playing in a Sunday pick up basketball league. I'm like..."it'd sure suck to do an ankle when didn't have to". He throws shade back at me knowing I always say there is risk in everything. But I'm like..."man...you worked really hard to get to this point. You don't have to do pick up hoops during football season". Getting into an accident or something is out of his control. He can control showing up to a pick up game. Coach, that's been my thing for a long time with different types of discussions, not just football, when someone pulls the "there's risk in everything" card in defense of some activity. People say "If you go outside the house, you are taking a risk. If you ride or drive on the road in a car, truck, or bus, you are taking a risk." Yeah, but you pretty much have to do those in order to have any sort of life, and not stay isolated. Other things, not so much. It's about unnecessary risks vs necessary risks.
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Post by silkyice on Aug 17, 2019 7:50:31 GMT -6
Guys, it's {censored} HS football. Keep asking them to put a sport you care about a hell of a lot more than they do above having fun and see how many kids you get out. {censored} happens. Adapt and overcome. PS- think about your statement. Your pissed off a kid got hurt for a meaningless scrimmage because he was playing football. What are you going to tell him? Stop playing football so you can play football?
Yes, it's just HS football.
And yes coaches generally care about it more than most kids.
But it's not tennis, or golf, or other individual sports either.
It's a TEAM sport.
Teammates are counting on teammates to help them compete and have fun.
Losing is not fun.
If they become ineligible for academic reasons or violating training rules, can't play because they injured themselves away from the practice field, etc. - it doesn't just affect the individual. Or the coach.
It's NOT like playing "Fortnite" or other such games.
Kids can learn how to be part of something bigger than themselves by playing HS football - if they choose.
You can also skateboard for the rest if your life. There are only a certain amount of varsity football games you get you play in your life and for most kids that is about 20. This can be said about hunting, fishing, hanging out, going to a concert, partying, whatever. I am not saying a kid has to give his life up to play football, but be smart about your decisions and realize OTHERS are affected by them. Math team has a huge math tournament on a Saturday morning. Is anyone on this thread going to paint the Math Team sponsor as evil for telling her kids to not go to the big concert or late movie or party on Friday night?
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Post by Defcord on Aug 17, 2019 10:14:55 GMT -6
Yes, it's just HS football.
And yes coaches generally care about it more than most kids.
But it's not tennis, or golf, or other individual sports either.
It's a TEAM sport.
Teammates are counting on teammates to help them compete and have fun.
Losing is not fun.
If they become ineligible for academic reasons or violating training rules, can't play because they injured themselves away from the practice field, etc. - it doesn't just affect the individual. Or the coach.
It's NOT like playing "Fortnite" or other such games.
Kids can learn how to be part of something bigger than themselves by playing HS football - if they choose.
You can also skateboard for the rest if your life. There are only a certain amount of varsity football games you get you play in your life and for most kids that is about 20. This can be said about hunting, fishing, hanging out, going to a concert, partying, whatever. I am not saying a kid has to give his life up to play football, but be smart about your decisions and realize OTHERS are affected by them. Math team has a huge math tournament on a Saturday morning. Is anyone on this thread going to paint the Math Team sponsor as evil for telling her kids to not go to the big concert or late movie or party on Friday night? Coach I understand your point. I think encouraging kids to make decisions to stay healthy or avoid injury is fine, but when we as coaches start making rules to limit free choice of our kids we are treading in any area I am not comfortable with. I think there’s a big difference between saying: “Hey buddy you really should consider hanging up the skateboard because if you get hurt it could hurt the team.” And “Hey buddy you aren’t allowed to skateboard during season. If you want play football you just can’t do it because it could end up affecting the team.” I agree that there is a limited amount of games that a kid will get the opportunity to play. But I still feel it’s the kids decision to make if he values those opportunities over other endeavors and pursuits of happiness.
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Aug 17, 2019 10:34:32 GMT -6
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Post by tripsclosed on Aug 17, 2019 10:34:32 GMT -6
You can also skateboard for the rest if your life. There are only a certain amount of varsity football games you get you play in your life and for most kids that is about 20. This can be said about hunting, fishing, hanging out, going to a concert, partying, whatever. I am not saying a kid has to give his life up to play football, but be smart about your decisions and realize OTHERS are affected by them. Math team has a huge math tournament on a Saturday morning. Is anyone on this thread going to paint the Math Team sponsor as evil for telling her kids to not go to the big concert or late movie or party on Friday night? Coach I understand your point. I think encouraging kids to make decisions to stay healthy or avoid injury is fine, but when we as coaches start making rules to limit free choice of our kids we are treading in any area I am not comfortable with. I think there’s a big difference between saying: “Hey buddy you really should consider hanging up the skateboard because if you get hurt it could hurt the team.” And “Hey buddy you aren’t allowed to skateboard during season. If you want play football you just can’t do it because it could end up affecting the team.” I agree that there is a limited amount of games that a kid will get the opportunity to play. But I still feel it’s the kids decision to make if he values those opportunities over other endeavors and pursuits of happiness. Coach, I like what you suggest with the first option. I'd like to think that you could put it to them as a suggestion, and appeal to their self-interest, and the interest of the group, and hope they'll refrain from skateboarding. I say that sincerely, not as in "I like to think that would work, but because of x, I don't think it will." I'm serious, if it could consistently work, I'd personally rather do it that way. I prefer consultative-type leadership as much as possible; even when a directive is given, as much as is practical, I like to phrase them in a way that is as personable and non-domineering as possible. I've tried to be this way at my job in the past, too. You have to be careful that you don't A) Come across as a pushover (still want to be assertive) and B) Come across as passive aggressive. Something like "Hey, if you don't mind, we need to get xyz done", vs "Hey, I need this done"/"I need you to do this for me"/"Hey, go take care of this." Treat people with respect.
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Aug 17, 2019 10:52:11 GMT -6
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Post by Defcord on Aug 17, 2019 10:52:11 GMT -6
Coach I understand your point. I think encouraging kids to make decisions to stay healthy or avoid injury is fine, but when we as coaches start making rules to limit free choice of our kids we are treading in any area I am not comfortable with. I think there’s a big difference between saying: “Hey buddy you really should consider hanging up the skateboard because if you get hurt it could hurt the team.” And “Hey buddy you aren’t allowed to skateboard during season. If you want play football you just can’t do it because it could end up affecting the team.” I agree that there is a limited amount of games that a kid will get the opportunity to play. But I still feel it’s the kids decision to make if he values those opportunities over other endeavors and pursuits of happiness. Coach, I like what you suggest with the first option. I'd like to think that you could put it to them as a suggestion, and appeal to their self-interest, and the interest of the group, and hope they'll refrain from skateboarding. I say that sincerely, not as in "I like to think that would work, but because of x, I don't think it will." I'm serious, if it could consistently work, I'd personally rather do it that way. I prefer consultative-type leadership as much as possible; even when a directive is given, as much as is practical, I like to phrase them in a way that is as personable and non-domineering as possible. I've tried to be this way at my job in the past, too. You have to be careful that you don't A) Come across as a pushover (still want to be assertive) and B) Come across as passive aggressive. Something like "Hey, if you don't mind, we need to get xyz done", vs "Hey, I need this done"/"I need you to do this for me"/"Hey, go take care of this." Treat people with respect. I definitely think allowing people, in this situation the young men that will potentially skateboard or whatever, ownership in the decision can be empowering. I would hope they make the choice to refrain from the less desired activity but I would not be upset if they did not. I would hope for the best and value their role and respect their decision. How would you respond if a kid did not make the decision you desired?
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Aug 17, 2019 10:56:25 GMT -6
Post by fantom on Aug 17, 2019 10:56:25 GMT -6
A situation that happened a few years ago: A softball coach got in trouble for telling his girls not to play in a powder puff football game, which was a charity fund-raiser. How do we feel about that?
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Post by tothehouse on Aug 17, 2019 12:45:05 GMT -6
Fantom. I can't stand hearing about that stuff. What I mean by that is it puts the kid in a pickle.
Let me ask this. Are you (football coaches) asking kids to play in a big weekend 7 on 7 games during basketball season? Because basketball and baseball teams seem to have no limits. What happens when this scenario is coming from the people on your campus?
I think it's different. You, as as the coach, suggest/almost demanding kids not do anything to potential injure themselves right before games. And another program on your campus demanding you play in an event during "your" season which could potentially hurt them.
I feel like...if I'm the one running the powder puff game and the best softball player in the school tears their ACL in a powder puff game...I'd feel like a total jack ass. But that's just me.
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Aug 17, 2019 13:42:25 GMT -6
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Post by Defcord on Aug 17, 2019 13:42:25 GMT -6
Fantom. I can't stand hearing about that stuff. What I mean by that is it puts the kid in a pickle. Let me ask this. Are you (football coaches) asking kids to play in a big weekend 7 on 7 games during basketball season? Because basketball and baseball teams seem to have no limits. What happens when this scenario is coming from the people on your campus? I think it's different. You, as as the coach, suggest/almost demanding kids not do anything to potential injure themselves right before games. And another program on your campus demanding you play in an event during "your" season which could potentially hurt them. I feel like...if I'm the one running the powder puff game and the best softball player in the school tears their ACL in a powder puff game...I'd feel like a total jack ass. But that's just me. There’s going to be a different line with every different school, program, family, kid. There’s no perfect scenario or situation. I think the best scenario is to set a reasonable parameter on when kids have to be at practice and games in season. Outside of that parameter you let them and their parents make decisions based on their personal and family values. If they think it’s best to go play a travel ball tournament or play powder puff or whatever outside of that parameter then you live with with their decision. The what-if game can go anyway. What if the best softball player tears her acl in powder puff. Well that would be terribly unfortunate. But what if that same girl is prohibited from playing in powder puff because the pressure of a rule to win win softball games and she succumbs to drug use or depression or even suicide because she can’t handle the pressure and just needed the release of being a normal student on a random Thursday night at the powder puff game with her friends. I don’t know the odds of either but assume both are minuscule. I have taught for 15 years and seen 100s of girls play powder puff and neither scenario happen.
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Aug 17, 2019 17:25:28 GMT -6
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Post by huddlehut on Aug 17, 2019 17:25:28 GMT -6
Drug use? Depression? Suicide? Because she couldn't play in the powderpuff game? Oh, brother...
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Aug 17, 2019 17:43:38 GMT -6
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Post by silkyice on Aug 17, 2019 17:43:38 GMT -6
Drug use? Depression? Suicide? Because she couldn't play in the powderpuff game? Oh, brother... I get it. You only get, what, one or two opportunities to play in a powder puff game in your lifetime. Totally just made fun of my earlier post.
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Aug 18, 2019 3:59:04 GMT -6
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Post by Defcord on Aug 18, 2019 3:59:04 GMT -6
Drug use? Depression? Suicide? Because she couldn't play in the powderpuff game? Oh, brother... You think those aren’t real issues? It was an exaggeration but you think she’s likely to tear an ACL from playing?
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Post by huddlehut on Aug 18, 2019 4:35:24 GMT -6
Certainly, they're real issues. However, I don't believe they are likely to be associated with not being allowed to play in a powderpuff game.
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Aug 18, 2019 6:16:27 GMT -6
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Post by Defcord on Aug 18, 2019 6:16:27 GMT -6
Certainly, they're real issues. However, I don't believe they are likely to be associated with not being allowed to play in a powderpuff game. I don’t think so either. I was trying to demonstrate and exaggerated what if. Do you think an ACL tear is likely?
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Aug 18, 2019 8:54:32 GMT -6
Post by fantom on Aug 18, 2019 8:54:32 GMT -6
Certainly, they're real issues. However, I don't believe they are likely to be associated with not being allowed to play in a powderpuff game. I don’t think so either. I was trying to demonstrate and exaggerated what if. Do you think an ACL tear is likely? Yes. This wasn't a hypothetical. The scenario happened a few years ago at the school I graduated from. The powder puff game was the day before a state semifinal softball game. The year before a girl had broken her ankle in the powder puff game.
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Aug 18, 2019 9:09:03 GMT -6
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Post by Defcord on Aug 18, 2019 9:09:03 GMT -6
I don’t think so either. I was trying to demonstrate and exaggerated what if. Do you think an ACL tear is likely? Yes. This wasn't a hypothetical. The scenario happened a few years ago at the school I graduated from. The powder puff game was the day before a state semifinal softball game. The year before a girl had broken her ankle in the powder puff game. Fair enough but how many other times has it happened? One (or a very minuscule amount of) time in all of powder puff history shouldn’t sound the alarms. I think we as coaches over worry about these situations. It reminds me of my dad’s mechanic and best friend. He has changed the thermostat on every car my dad has owned since I was a kid. It could be that my dad has had bad luck buying cars with bad thermostats over the last 35 years or maybe his buddy is looking for that issue specifically so it gets tons of attention. I have owned cars for almost 25 years and have never had a thermostat go out. People can consider me a hippy but as an institution high school coaches often over emphasize competitive pursuits at the expense of happiness. How often is happiness or contentment placed as a team priority (or a classroom priority). Competition and happiness are not mutually exclusive but too often the endeavors that could enhance happiness outside of a sport are restricted for the sake of potential wins. As I have grown I feel that the athletes’ decision making should be influenced but not directed or over taken by coaches.
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Post by fantom on Aug 18, 2019 9:14:31 GMT -6
Yes. This wasn't a hypothetical. The scenario happened a few years ago at the school I graduated from. The powder puff game was the day before a state semifinal softball game. The year before a girl had broken her ankle in the powder puff game. Fair enough but how many other times has it happened? One (or a very minuscule amount of) time in all of powder puff history shouldn’t sound the alarms. If that one costs my team a chance at a state championship that would be enough for me.
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Aug 18, 2019 9:30:29 GMT -6
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Post by Defcord on Aug 18, 2019 9:30:29 GMT -6
Fair enough but how many other times has it happened? One (or a very minuscule amount of) time in all of powder puff history shouldn’t sound the alarms. If that one costs my team a chance at a state championship that would be enough for me. Again fair enough. We just have different philosophies on life and athletics.
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Aug 18, 2019 12:12:44 GMT -6
Post by silkyice on Aug 18, 2019 12:12:44 GMT -6
If that one costs my team a chance at a state championship that would be enough for me. Again fair enough. We just have different philosophies on life and athletics. I get your point. It's Friday night. Football game. Your starting qb decides to go see the new Marvel movie instead. Or his brother's bday party. Or take his girlfriend out. All ok? Of course not. A coach trying to get kids to make good decisions or put his teams welfare in front of his own fleeting personal happiness by going to the skateboard park or playing in a powder puff game sounds like trying to help kids mature. Everything isn't all roses or even about fleeting happiness. Life is tough, Accidents happen, but the majority of "accidents" are preventable with a little foresight or thought.
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Post by blb on Aug 18, 2019 12:47:32 GMT -6
I don’t think so either. I was trying to demonstrate and exaggerated what if. Do you think an ACL tear is likely? Yes. This wasn't a hypothetical. The scenario happened a few years ago at the school I graduated from. The powder puff game was the day before a state semifinal softball game. The year before a girl had broken her ankle in the powder puff game.
fantom - I don't get it.
At the schools I coached at "Powder Puff" game is the week of Homecoming (fall).
Softball is played in the spring.
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