bighit65
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Post by bighit65 on Jul 3, 2019 10:58:58 GMT -6
I love this conversation, but have to disagree slightly. The kids haven't changed. The parents have. There were no lawnmower parents when I was growing up. I got switched as a high school senior in 1999 and my dad asked how I had earned it. But he didn't try to fight my buddy's grandma that did it because I swore in her house. That's what has changed the landscape. Kids are still kids. They are just supplied with a skewed perspective of their place in the world.
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Post by blb on Jul 3, 2019 11:45:53 GMT -6
We had a similar situation. Now, in 2016, we only went 6-3. But, given the preseason expectations, that 6-3 might as well have been a state championship. Most, me included, felt 1-8 or 0-9 was well within the realm of possibility. Well, due to that unexpected success, morale was high in the program and school as a whole, coaching staff received pats on the back all year, etc. In 2017, we then went 0-9, our numbers were lower than they had been the year before, so low in fact we weren't too sure we were going to be able to field a team for the last three weeks of the year and in hindsight, we probably shouldn't have. I have seen several examples of this over the last decade. Banner years followed up by lower numbers and interest than ever before. We have a local 2-time state champ program that literally dried within five years of their last title. I think as a coach you need to expect to start over from scratch every year.
At one of the schools I was HC one of our neighborhood rivals (enrollment 330) with a great tradition made it to the state championship game one year, didn't have a varsity team the next year because of numbers.
Experienced it twice myself. Had teams that had some great years, and then our numbers-commitment level declined. Although it never got to the point we couldn't field a team, it definitely hurt our ability to compete-win.
On the flip side, at one school we had a down year (3-6, only losing season we had there), and the next year we had by far the most kids ever to come out for football in the school's history - and that was the first year district instituted Pay to Play!
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Post by larrymoe on Jul 3, 2019 11:53:43 GMT -6
I love this conversation, but have to disagree slightly. The kids haven't changed. The parents have. There were no lawnmower parents when I was growing up. I got switched as a high school senior in 1999 and my dad asked how I had earned it. But he didn't try to fight my buddy's grandma that did it because I swore in her house. That's what has changed the landscape. Kids are still kids. They are just supplied with a skewed perspective of their place in the world. Which means that because their parents let them act that way that, wait for it, THEY ACT DIFFERENTLY AND HAVE CHANGED FROM PREVIOUS GENERATIONS!! |
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Post by silkyice on Jul 3, 2019 12:20:46 GMT -6
Here's another story.
I am old enough to have coached kids that coach now coach. Those coaches will talk to me about kids these days and ______ fill in the blank. Work ethic, attitude, how much they care, parents, video games, other things to do, whatever.
I laugh and say that coaches used to say the SAME things about them!!!
Don't forget, we are coaches. We most likely cared more than the average kid. Payed attention more. Did the little things. Didn't miss. Made football a priority. I would bet that our parents (in general) cared more also. We forget our friend Jimmy who skipped workouts to go to a concert.
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Post by s73 on Jul 3, 2019 12:28:27 GMT -6
Here's what I find myself and my staff doing EVERY YEAR!
"I wish this group was like our group from 5 years ago. Those guys really GOT IT! They were so tough and hard nosed and good workers and great all around kids. Loved coaching them!"
Flashback to 5 years ago:
"I wish this group was like our group from 5 years ago. Those guys really GOT IT! They were so tough and hard nosed and good workers and great all around kids. Loved coaching them!"
IMO the reality is we ask more of kids then by far whatever was asked of us. All groups have ones that are more willing than others and some groups have more of those than others. I suspect that's always been the case and just like history, the most accurate assessment of each group usually comes after the fact b/c when you're going through a season you only see snapshots and the stress of the job often times causes us to focus on the negative more than the positive b/c we have to intervene and fix the negative so it gets more attention.
Hence, during frustration and seasonal lows it becomes "kids nowadays" but once the season is over & you can reflect w/ clear mind, MOST times (definitely bad groups from time to time) the kids are as good as we were & some probably better.
JMO.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 3, 2019 13:05:50 GMT -6
I love this conversation, but have to disagree slightly. The kids haven't changed. The parents have. There were no lawnmower parents when I was growing up. I got switched as a high school senior in 1999 and my dad asked how I had earned it. But he didn't try to fight my buddy's grandma that did it because I swore in her house. That's what has changed the landscape. Kids are still kids. They are just supplied with a skewed perspective of their place in the world. Which means that because their parents let them act that way that, wait for it, THEY ACT DIFFERENTLY AND HAVE CHANGED FROM PREVIOUS GENERATIONS!! This discussion came up a few weeks ago, and larrymoe seemed to be the outlier in his opinion, but I have to agree with him on some aspects as this. I think there are two truths : 1) Some fundamental aspects of youth have not changed. That is why the quotation attributed to Socrates is bandied about in similar discussions. A fundamental aspect of youth is to seem disrespectful of adults, seem to be spoiled in the eyes of adults, seem to be the ruler of the house (as Socrates put it) and not the servant etc. 2) As larrymoe has been arguming, because society changes, civilizations change etc, there ARE differences. As the OP presented, we are living at a time where communication is changing more rapidly than any point in history. That is changing how humans (especially kids in the eyes of adults) interact. Keep in mind that we are really only 4 -6 generations removed from a time where there really wasn't much of a concept of recreation or leisure time. It seems that with each passing generation, the younger group finds more and more leisure time in the eyes of the older generations. The options for them to spend that leisure time are changing. |
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center
Junior Member
Posts: 484
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Post by center on Jul 3, 2019 15:09:31 GMT -6
I love this conversation, but have to disagree slightly. The kids haven't changed. The parents have. There were no lawnmower parents when I was growing up. I got switched as a high school senior in 1999 and my dad asked how I had earned it. But he didn't try to fight my buddy's grandma that did it because I swore in her house. That's what has changed the landscape. Kids are still kids. They are just supplied with a skewed perspective of their place in the world. That’s a badass grandma...maybe grandparents have changed? |
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bighit65
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Make a statement without saying a word.
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Post by bighit65 on Jul 3, 2019 15:20:58 GMT -6
Grandma Love was no joke. She fed us all every Monday night when Monday night Raw was on, went to all of our games and would make anyone who set foot in her house cut a switch if they swore, got in someone else's business or was disrespectful. I saw 4 other kids get it. We were all high schoolers at the time. She'd love you no matter who you were, but she didn't hesitate to light you up if you broke her rules.
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Post by blb on Jul 3, 2019 15:22:51 GMT -6
Grandma Love was no joke. She fed us all every Monday night when Monday night Raw was on, went to all of our games and would make anyone who set foot in her house cut a switch if they swore, got in someone else's business or was disrespectful. I saw 4 other kids get it. We were all high schoolers at the time. She'd love you no matter who you were, but she didn't hesitate to light you up if you broke her rules.
That would get her arrested most places nowadays.
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Post by larrymoe on Jul 3, 2019 16:42:17 GMT -6
One thing I've noticed specifically in my area is kids don't work. They may show up to everything, they may put on a good show, but very few go above and beyond the expectations. Personally, I think it's because they've never had to actually physically labor for anything in their lives. It's always been given to them. I haven't had 5 kids in the past 5 years miss something because they had to work a job. I'd wager probably less than 20% of my kids in that time frame have worked any job, let alone physical labor. It's a foreign world to them. Blame that on whomever you like, but that is a major difference in kids from just a decade ago in this area.
They also disgustingly lack in problem solving because of this, but that's an entirely different issue.
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Post by somecoach on Jul 4, 2019 0:04:39 GMT -6
My take on the “kids these days/Socrates quote about kids not changing”:
I believe it’s kind of a paradox, the development of the human brain in childhood is still the same as it was 1000s of years ago, in which kids are inclined to “be Kids” and do the typical immature things that would cause adults to say the “kids these days” comment... yet at the same time technology and social norms do change and kids do act differently then they did in other time periods.
So it doesn’t matter what the technological advancement of the time was:
Be it IPhones today
Tvs in the 20th century
Electricity in the late 19th century
Domesticated Animals and Growing Crops 8000 B.C.
Because somewhere down the line an inexperienced kid is going to show a dependency on the technology of the day, and an adult will say “gee these kids don’t know what it was like back in my day when we didn’t have XYZ”
... as for our sport/profession/passion; the “dependency” I believe we are combatting is the comfort in sitting home and playing Fortnite on an iPad/watching YouTube “lets plays” rather then learning the necessary life lessons, social growth, and physical development that is taught on a football field.
One cold hard fact on how kids have actually changed in our society compared to the one we grew up in is the obesity rate.
20% of 12-19 year olds are obese. (Compared to it being at 5% in the 80’s)
But imo the issue extends further to the other 80%,, im nterested to see the percentage of kids 12-19 who are just out of shape. According to a military study mentioned by Tim Kennedy on a podcast (Green Beret and Part time UFC fighter) 75% of highschool kids are not fit to join the military and their is a shortage of special forces recruits. Not sure the ramifications of the study but i wouldn’t doubt its atleast above 50%
Not to go down another rabbit hole, but Im also interested to see the depression rates/psychological disorder rates in comparison to early generations.
Again, how do we combat this?
Raise your kids the right way and Recruit the halls so you can try to help as many as we can.
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Post by larrymoe on Jul 4, 2019 14:01:22 GMT -6
My take on the “kids these days/Socrates quote about kids not changing”: I believe it’s kind of a paradox, the development of the human brain in childhood is still the same as it was 1000s of years ago, in which kids are inclined to “be Kids” and do the typical immature things that would cause adults to say the “kids these days” comment... yet at the same time technology and social norms do change and kids do act differently then they did in other time periods. So it doesn’t matter what the technological advancement of the time was: Be it IPhones today Tvs in the 20th century Electricity in the late 19th century Domesticated Animals and Growing Crops 8000 B.C. Because somewhere down the line an inexperienced kid is going to show a dependency on the technology of the day, and an adult will say “gee these kids don’t know what it was like back in my day when we didn’t have XYZ” ... as for our sport/profession/passion; the “dependency” I believe we are combatting is the comfort in sitting home and playing Fortnite on an iPad/watching YouTube “lets plays” rather then learning the necessary life lessons, social growth, and physical development that is taught on a football field. One cold hard fact on how kids have actually changed in our society compared to the one we grew up in is the obesity rate. 20% of 12-19 year olds are obese. (Compared to it being at 5% in the 80’s) But imo the issue extends further to the other 80%,, im nterested to see the percentage of kids 12-19 who are just out of shape. According to a military study mentioned by Tim Kennedy on a podcast (Green Beret and Part time UFC fighter) 75% of highschool kids are not fit to join the military and their is a shortage of special forces recruits. Not sure the ramifications of the study but i wouldn’t doubt its atleast above 50% Not to go down another rabbit hole, but Im also interested to see the depression rates/psychological disorder rates in comparison to early generations. Again, how do we combat this? Raise your kids the right way and Recruit the halls so you can try to help as many as we can. There's quite a few studies that have concluded that technology is causing kids brains to develop entirely differently than kids in previous environments. Especially in the areas of problem solving, interpersonal communication and relationships, planning and personal accountability. Edit- this is the first article I found on Google. There's a whole bunch of them linked to actual scientific studies and not just observations from us old idiots. www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-power-prime/201212/how-technology-is-changing-the-way-children-think-and-focus |
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Post by coachdubyah on Jul 4, 2019 14:09:54 GMT -6
Not really. Nothing that kids decide to do anymore surprises me. We had a similar situation. Now, in 2016, we only went 6-3. But, given the preseason expectations, that 6-3 might as well have been a state championship. Most, me included, felt 1-8 or 0-9 was well within the realm of possibility. Well, due to that unexpected success, morale was high in the program and school as a whole, coaching staff received pats on the back all year, etc. In 2017, we then went 0-9, our numbers were lower than they had been the year before, so low in fact we weren't too sure we were going to be able to field a team for the last three weeks of the year and in hindsight, we probably shouldn't have. The school I am HC of currently has never had a winning season since 2006. We won 3 games last year which is the most this school has won since 2010 I believe...I really wonder what would happen if we made it to Thanksgiving Week in the playoffs...I really worry that we would have to forfeit our playoff game because half our kids won't show up the week school is out, while the other half would rather be in a Deer Stand...It's funny to think about but, I am starting to wonder if one day I won't be faced with this. |
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Post by blb on Jul 4, 2019 14:24:58 GMT -6
The school I am HC of currently has never had a winning season since 2006. We won 3 games last year which is the most this school has won since 2010 I believe...I really wonder what would happen if we made it to Thanksgiving Week in the playoffs...I really worry that we would have to forfeit our playoff game because half our kids won't show up the week school is out, while the other half would rather be in a Deer Stand...It's funny to think about but, I am starting to wonder if one day I won't be faced with this.
Well, that perhaps explains your school's record before you took over.
Again - there are some schools-communities where the attitudes, environment, socioeconomic makeup - however you want to describe-define it or which apply - simply do not allow the conditions for a competitive much less winning football program to exist, regardless of who or how good the coach is.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 4, 2019 14:59:28 GMT -6
My take on the “kids these days/Socrates quote about kids not changing”: I believe it’s kind of a paradox, the development of the human brain in childhood is still the same as it was 1000s of years ago, in which kids are inclined to “be Kids” and do the typical immature things that would cause adults to say the “kids these days” comment... yet at the same time technology and social norms do change and kids do act differently then they did in other time periods. So it doesn’t matter what the technological advancement of the time was: Be it IPhones today Tvs in the 20th century Electricity in the late 19th century Domesticated Animals and Growing Crops 8000 B.C. Because somewhere down the line an inexperienced kid is going to show a dependency on the technology of the day, and an adult will say “gee these kids don’t know what it was like back in my day when we didn’t have XYZ” ... as for our sport/profession/passion; the “dependency” I believe we are combatting is the comfort in sitting home and playing Fortnite on an iPad/watching YouTube “lets plays” rather then learning the necessary life lessons, social growth, and physical development that is taught on a football field. One cold hard fact on how kids have actually changed in our society compared to the one we grew up in is the obesity rate. 20% of 12-19 year olds are obese. (Compared to it being at 5% in the 80’s) But imo the issue extends further to the other 80%,, im nterested to see the percentage of kids 12-19 who are just out of shape. According to a military study mentioned by Tim Kennedy on a podcast (Green Beret and Part time UFC fighter) 75% of highschool kids are not fit to join the military and their is a shortage of special forces recruits. Not sure the ramifications of the study but i wouldn’t doubt its atleast above 50% Not to go down another rabbit hole, but Im also interested to see the depression rates/psychological disorder rates in comparison to early generations. Again, how do we combat this? Raise your kids the right way and Recruit the halls so you can try to help as many as we can. There's quite a few studies that have concluded that technology is causing kids brains to develop entirely differently than kids in previous environments. Especially in the areas of problem solving, interpersonal communication and relationships, planning and personal accountability. Edit- this is the first article I found on Google. There's a whole bunch of them linked to actual scientific studies and not just observations from us old idiots. www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-power-prime/201212/how-technology-is-changing-the-way-children-think-and-focusAs I have said several times, I don't disagree with some of your assertions. It wouldn't surprise me however, if brains have always developed differently do to various changes in environments. |
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Post by funkfriss on Jul 5, 2019 7:17:10 GMT -6
The school I am HC of currently has never had a winning season since 2006. We won 3 games last year which is the most this school has won since 2010 I believe...I really wonder what would happen if we made it to Thanksgiving Week in the playoffs...I really worry that we would have to forfeit our playoff game because half our kids won't show up the week school is out, while the other half would rather be in a Deer Stand...It's funny to think about but, I am starting to wonder if one day I won't be faced with this.
Well, that perhaps explains your school's record before you took over.
Again - there are some schools-communities where the attitudes, environment, socioeconomic makeup - however you want to describe-define it or which apply - simply do not allow the conditions for a competitive much less winning football program (regardless of who or how good the coach is) to exist.
This can not be overstated. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 5, 2019 7:21:18 GMT -6
Well, that perhaps explains your school's record before you took over.
Again - there are some schools-communities where the attitudes, environment, socioeconomic makeup - however you want to describe-define it or which apply - simply do not allow the conditions for a competitive much less winning football program (regardless of who or how good the coach is) to exist.
This can not be overstated. and funkfriss those communities and schools just need to butter their bread running 11 personnel like the Chiefs and aceback |
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Post by blb on Jul 5, 2019 7:23:02 GMT -6
This can not be overstated. and funkfriss those communities and schools just need to butter their bread running 11 personnel like the Chiefs and aceback
...and-or 12 personnel like aceback76 and the Chiefs.
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Post by tigerpride on Jul 5, 2019 12:42:42 GMT -6
Interesting thread and have really enjoyed reading. I am so guilty of using the "kids these days" or "kids are soft" expressions. I won't get into the generations but I know one thing for sure. I played 14 years of FB and I never came close to doing the things my football players do. It's about 45 weeks a year, 3 days of winter weights and agilities, spring ball, summer sessions, 7 on 7 s, etc.
My first day of varsity football started august 1 and yes, 2 a days were tough but it was a couple weeks. Summer was a joke and I was playing knothole bb.
Our winter program was so easy and we did most our lifting on our own terms at the local gym. I benched every day lol. Never did a real football lift until college.
College was tough but still I didn't have spring football. And you were free in the Christmas break and summer. But my players do more now in high school than I ever did in college.
So when I think about it, even though these kids love their luxuries, gear, phones and gaming -- they sure do love the game of football. I meed to acknowlwde this more. Just wish more would get off their assessment and try it.
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Post by indian1 on Jul 5, 2019 18:33:13 GMT -6
well, they’re ours and we’re theirs. They are just as stuck with us as we are with them. We all want better/tougher/ whatever players, but let’s keep in mind that they could have better coaches too. Maybe just keeping focused on holding up our end of the bargain is the answer.
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Post by larrymoe on Jul 5, 2019 19:51:02 GMT -6
well, they’re ours and we’re theirs. They are just as stuck with us as we are with them. We all want better/tougher/ whatever players, but let’s keep in mind that they could have better coaches too. Maybe just keeping focused on holding up our end of the bargain is the answer. Except they're not your, or mine's kids and we aren't their parents. But, I digress. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 5, 2019 20:05:14 GMT -6
well, they’re ours and we’re theirs. They are just as stuck with us as we are with them. We all want better/tougher/ whatever players, but let’s keep in mind that they could have better coaches too. Maybe just keeping focused on holding up our end of the bargain is the answer. Except they're not your, or mine's kids and we aren't their parents. But, I digress. Coach, he didn't say that, nor did I interpret his post to suggest that. He was stating that they are our players, and we are their coaches. Also, he brings up a decent point. I see lots of lamenting about the players from coaches, but I believe (especially after reading some posts on this site) that the players would be well justified to do some lamenting about their coaches. |
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Post by s73 on Jul 5, 2019 20:18:30 GMT -6
well, they’re ours and we’re theirs. They are just as stuck with us as we are with them. We all want better/tougher/ whatever players, but let’s keep in mind that they could have better coaches too. Maybe just keeping focused on holding up our end of the bargain is the answer. Have coached w/ guys who when they win they pat themselves on the back and when they lose "they have no talent" or " our kids just suck". But.....if kids say that about us, well they must be entitled little pricks. Bottom line, kids come & go, but if you never look in the mirror and develop YOURSELF, then you are at the mercy of your talent. Yes....we all are to some extent, but my goal is to try and take every team I have to +1 or better than what they are probably capable of. 3-6? I'm pushing for 4+. 5-4 I'm pushing for 6+. Maybe I can and maybe I can't but one thing I know for SURE. $hitty attitude and excuse making has no shot. Getting after it gives you a chance. JMO. |
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Post by stilltryin on Jul 5, 2019 20:56:03 GMT -6
Agree with Tigerpride ... a really interesting thread and a lot of thoughtful responses, even some self-examination. I'm not sure where the following anecdote fits in the discussion, but it's the sort of thing that confirms for me that there are plenty of kids who love the game, and also that we (coaches and kids) share more then we sometimes think.
We lost our last game of what was by any account a good year, and afterwards two seniors were sitting in a corner still wearing their helmets after a lot of people had left, and still having a hard time with their emotions. A third senior walks up to me and says, "Funny how it works, huh, coach?"
I give him a look. "What d'ya mean, Joe?"
"You know," he says, "when you first start playing, you're a part of it. But by the end ... " he cocks his head toward the other two kids ... "it's a part of you."
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 5, 2019 21:00:48 GMT -6
Agree with Tigerpride ... a really interesting thread and a lot of thoughtful responses, even some self-examination. I'm not sure where the following anecdote fits in the discussion, but it's the sort of thing that confirms for me that there are plenty of kids who love the game, and also that we (coaches and kids) share more then we sometimes think. We lost our last game of what was by any account a good year, and afterwards two seniors were sitting in a corner still wearing their helmets after a lot of people had left, and still having a hard time with their emotions. A third senior walks up to me and says, "Funny how it works, huh, coach?" I give him a look. "What d'ya mean, Joe?" "You know," he says, "when you first start playing, you're a part of it. But by the end ... " he cocks his head toward the other two kids ... "it's a part of you." It would be interesting to see the % of coaches who cried when their HS playing days (or playing days in general) were over compared to guys who didn't end up coaching. I am betting the future coaches were much more emotional. Which leads to a statement often typed here "we probably care about it a lot more than them". |
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Post by fantom on Jul 5, 2019 21:36:39 GMT -6
Twenty years ago I attended a clinic session about "Dealing With Today's Player". The speaker, a D.1 coach at what was then a top program, said that when he was hired the HC gave him some advice. He said that, "All of these kids are selfish bastards. It's not their fault, it's how they were brought up". The HC told him that if he remembered that he had a chance of making it. If not, he'd fail.
This stuff isn't new.
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Post by option1 on Jul 6, 2019 6:32:37 GMT -6
well, they’re ours and we’re theirs. They are just as stuck with us as we are with them. We all want better/tougher/ whatever players, but let’s keep in mind that they could have better coaches too. Maybe just keeping focused on holding up our end of the bargain is the answer. Have coached w/ guys who when they win they pat themselves on the back and when they lose "they have no talent" or " our kids just suck". But.....if kids say that about us, well they must be entitled little pricks. Bottom line, kids come & go, but if you never look in the mirror and develop YOURSELF, then you are at the mercy of your talent. Yes....we all are to some extent, but my goal is to try and take every team I have to +1 or better than what they are probably capable of. 3-6? I'm pushing for 4+. 5-4 I'm pushing for 6+. Maybe I can and maybe I can't but one thing I know for SURE. $hitty attitude and excuse making has no shot. Getting after it gives you a chance. JMO. D@mn good post! |
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Post by option1 on Jul 6, 2019 6:53:13 GMT -6
Twenty years ago I attended a clinic session about "Dealing With Today's Player". The speaker, a D.1 coach at what was then a top program, said that when he was hired the HC gave him some advice. He said that, "All of these kids are selfish bastards. It's not their fault, it's how they were brought up". The HC told him that if he remembered that he had a chance of making it. If not, he'd fail. This stuff isn't new. Not new, but nowhere near the same. HARD:>>>>>>>NOT AS HARD:>>>>>>GETTING EASIER:>>>>>>EVEN EASIER>>>>>>EVEN EASIER>>>>>NO EXCUSE BAREFOOT................SHOES.........................BICYCLE......................CITYBUS........................CAR................ESCOOTER/UBER WORK-----------------STILL WORKING----------STILL FEELING IT..........LESS WORK..................NO WORK.................GEEZ Huge difference between coaching players that understand "hard" when they get to you and those that have to be taught what "hard" is. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 6, 2019 13:08:52 GMT -6
I guess this post fits here... I realize it is a "dead" sports period, with only women'w world cup, Golf, some mens soccer tournament going on plus some other smaller sports, but righ tnow, on ABC --a NATIONAL BROADCAST-- (not a smaller substation) they are broadcating some team video game competition called overwatch?  Come on. Bowling? Darts? Arm Wreslting? ugh... Edit-- they have pyrotechnic intros? A home team?? Fans booing and cheering? Ugh... |
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Post by brophy on Jul 8, 2019 7:56:18 GMT -6
somecoach actually makes a good point with the thread premise, which is love it or hate it THIS IS who we're all coaching; the same generation. Not going to do anything productive complaining about it. does this help? streamable.com/3eeto
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