|
Post by dsealey on Jun 28, 2019 12:18:24 GMT -6
I recently heard a podcast on USAFB on doing away with scout cards and just calling the play how our team would call it. I think this is a great idea. I think it will speed things up and allow our younger guys to learn our offense. My question is... if you are spread team and you are playing a wing-t team... how do you make it work? Have any of you gone away with scout cards?
|
|
|
Post by phinfan on Jun 28, 2019 12:26:10 GMT -6
My question to this has always been what about the stuff you don’t run or the things that are essentially the same play but have certain parts that are different
|
|
|
Post by planck on Jun 28, 2019 12:41:28 GMT -6
I just finished putting together comprehensive binders for all of our opponents next year. 5 of them run counter from a one back set, and collectively they block it 7 different ways. I don't think expanding our offensive verbiage to encompass this is a good use of our time, since I can just draw it.
That said, I don't see a great reason to draw scout cards for, say, inside zone or a toss play. They're all basically the same. So maybe I could throw out some of my scout cards, but probably not all of them.
|
|
|
Post by bluboy on Jun 28, 2019 12:50:33 GMT -6
"...calling the play how our team would call it."
This is how we do it, UNLESS, the play is something out of the realm of our offense. Then we draw a card. Take Wing-T counter criss cross, for example. We will draw a card for that because we have nothing like it in our offense. If the play is really complicated, we will walk through it and not try to run it full speed. We will draw cards for every pass play that we want to see, even if the concept is something that we do. I agree with the OP that doing this helps scout team guys learn the offense. It certainly helps our young guys.
|
|
|
Post by silkyice on Jun 28, 2019 13:41:15 GMT -6
Another disadvantage to this method (especially for smaller teams) is when you have to have a TE (or anyone) play scout right guard. Sure it would be great if he already understood what the right guard does, but then the next week he plays scout SE and the next he plays scout RB and the next scout tackle.
Some teams have a hard enough time just getting their starting right guard to learn right guard.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2019 13:46:00 GMT -6
I recently heard a podcast on USAFB on doing away with scout cards and just calling the play how our team would call it. I think this is a great idea. I think it will speed things up and allow our younger guys to learn our offense. My question is... if you are spread team and you are playing a wing-t team... how do you make it work? Have any of you gone away with scout cards? I prefer to do both. Still make the scout cards, but explain it in the scout huddle as “this is just like _____.” I only see this being 100% applicable to teams who run the same offense as everyone on their schedule (a lot of spread teams, I’m guessing) and can 2 platoon so the scout team players are all playing their normal positions when on Scout.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Jun 28, 2019 15:37:29 GMT -6
Sounds like coaches trying to outsmart themselves. I dislike it for a few reasons: 1) As others have mentioned, at some point you may play someone where your terms don't match. Not only that, but I think we have all seen enough JV/Scout squad guys screw up reading a card. I think they would screw up play calls even more.
2) Not only may teams have different plays, but they may utilize trades, motions, shifts etc that you don't use.
3) Scout guys may be playing out of position.
4) Not mentioned yet is that drawing cards (in my opinion) is the single best way to learn the ins and outs of your defense. There have probably been about 15 threads on scout cards and how to eliminate them. However, we have had as many if not more threads with coaches lamenting the professional development of younger/asst coaches. I constantly see coaches here saying "I wish I could turn over some responsibility, but my asst coaches just aren't ready" etc.
You want professional development regarding x's and o's? DRAW SCOUT CARDS. Draw all 22 players, with any trades, shifts, motions etc. Draw defensive movements and blitzes to help out scout offensive players give a look. Do that a few weeks and presto, your less experienced coaches now understand how your defense works.
|
|
|
Post by agap on Jun 28, 2019 15:53:12 GMT -6
You should do that when you can, but like others have said, it's not always possible.
|
|
|
Post by lochness on Jun 28, 2019 17:10:22 GMT -6
I don't like it. Teams block plays differently sometimes, and all your defensive keys and reactions are dependent upon some poor scout team OL slappy doing his job right. Half the time, they can barely block the varsity defense effectively, even when they know what they're doing.
Cards give those kids confidence and gives your defense a more accurate simulation of their keys.
I suppose if your a spread team and you're playing other spread teams it's no big deal, but we would play (in one season) spread, wing-t, pro-I, double wing, and sometimes flexbone. No frigging way we're not putting cards together.
Makes run group and pass group smoother and more effective as well. We'd put notes on the cards about the depth of the routes we were facing, etc. Again, just made it way more realistic and efficient.
|
|
|
Post by silkyice on Jun 28, 2019 17:48:50 GMT -6
We make scout sheets, not scout cards.
It has just the offense and where they go. Lineman get lines that either show a down block, double team, base, hook, pull, or pass block. If they need something more specific, I will add the defense in for that play.
We letter all the skill players (x, y, z, h, f, q) so that everyone knows where to line up. Q is always used, but a will be for team that moves q around to go wildcat for instance.
I can get 28 plays on one sheet - 7 rows with 4 columns. Number them 1-28. If you think that makes the boxes too small, do 10 per sheet or 8 or whatever. The back sheet is numbered starting with 201. Just makes easier to communicate.
Now I can get 56 plays drawn up. We aren't going to hit 56 in day, and most times 56 aren't even drawn up. But they are all there.
We print out 6 (you can make more). Quick laminate them. The head coach and DC have a sheet. Then either other coaches or players have the other 4. We break the scout offense into "pods". O line, backs left receivers, right receivers.
We just huddle in the four pods and call the play. Makes everything much faster. Lots of time the line will have two sheets. Left side of line and Right side of line and center.
So no need for a big card.
The big cards take FOREVER to draw and all the kids can't see them all at once in the huddle anyways. Our way, everyone is on the same page and it all is done quickly and there is only one "card/page" to keep up with.
|
|
|
Post by canesfan on Jun 28, 2019 18:36:18 GMT -6
No Scout Cards sounds like something an offensive minded head coach would suggest to a DC. We’re an Air Raid/RPO team. We play 2-3 Wing T Teams, one Full house double tight iso team, a Double Wing Team, etc. this method would be a disaster for us.
|
|
|
Post by wingtol on Jun 28, 2019 20:41:35 GMT -6
Some people try and re-invent the wheel when the wheel doesn't need re-invented.
|
|
|
Post by jgordon1 on Jun 29, 2019 6:33:44 GMT -6
I recently heard a podcast on USAFB on doing away with scout cards and just calling the play how our team would call it. I think this is a great idea. I think it will speed things up and allow our younger guys to learn our offense. My question is... if you are spread team and you are playing a wing-t team... how do you make it work? Have any of you gone away with scout cards? I prefer to do both. Still make the scout cards, but explain it in the scout huddle as “this is just like _____.” I only see this being 100% applicable to teams who run the same offense as everyone on their schedule (a lot of spread teams, I’m guessing) and can 2 platoon so the scout team players are all playing their normal positions when on Scout. right..we do it the same way..the only time we don't use cards all the time is in preseason when we practice against ourselves
|
|
|
Post by mdunham on Jun 29, 2019 6:45:42 GMT -6
On our scout cards I write the formation, motion, play in our terminology to help expedite huddle as well as get players coaches communicating similar language. I may add a tag if play is blocked differently. If there's a formation, motion that's not what we have in I'll ask the OC if he's got a name in his playbook. Worst case - I'll pick one if there's something close (example all 2TE 3RB full house formations are Jumbo), I'll tag it if there's only 1 player that moves from a formation, or I'll create one if it's a real oddball (like quads).
Like a lot of guys here my scout team changes daily/weekly. We rotate younger guys/backups in for some reps too at end of team so varsity guys will play some scout.
|
|
|
Post by buckeye7525 on Jun 29, 2019 6:53:52 GMT -6
We’ve done the “no scout cards” before when we played a team that ran a similar offense to us. If we were playing a Wing T team then a lot of times our DC would just right out the plays he wanted to see and I’d just call it on our verbiage.
But, if a we were playing a team different then us (spread for example) we’d card them up because it would just be too much to try and explain it especially if you had guys out of position.
One thing I have done is create scout D wristbands to save time. I do like that, it worked pretty well when I’ve had time to do it.
|
|
|
Post by bluboy on Jun 29, 2019 8:25:48 GMT -6
One thing I do that helps make things go faster is arrange the scout cards(inside run/group pass, team) in the order they appear on the script. It might take a little more time at the front end, but it is definitely worth it. On the scout card I list the personnel group, the formation, and the play. Also, the scout cards are numbered the same as the play on the script. The scout team coach doesn't have to shuffle through cards; they're already in the correct order. The scout team coach yells the number, then shows/tells the scout team what to do.
|
|
|
Post by planck on Jun 29, 2019 8:36:04 GMT -6
One thing I have done is create scout D wristbands to save time. I do like that, it worked pretty well when I’ve had time to do it. Care to elaborate?
|
|
|
Post by aceback76 on Jun 29, 2019 8:49:52 GMT -6
I recently heard a podcast on USAFB on doing away with scout cards and just calling the play how our team would call it. I think this is a great idea. I think it will speed things up and allow our younger guys to learn our offense. My question is... if you are spread team and you are playing a wing-t team... how do you make it work? Have any of you gone away with scout cards? If the Scout Team can't SEE the diagram of the play you want them to execute, you will have a "Cluster-F**K", and waste time. We have a designated Scout Team Coach, and they are allotted time at the beginning of each practice to get their s**t together, before going vs. our O & D.
|
|
|
Post by s73 on Jun 29, 2019 10:37:48 GMT -6
I recently heard a podcast on USAFB on doing away with scout cards and just calling the play how our team would call it. I think this is a great idea. I think it will speed things up and allow our younger guys to learn our offense. My question is... if you are spread team and you are playing a wing-t team... how do you make it work? Have any of you gone away with scout cards? My DC tried to make scout wrist coaches w/ blocking rules directions for everybody on the scout O thinking it would speed things up tremendously b/c no huddle, etc. But.....it sucked. Kids still did things totally wrong and he said the wrist coaches actually took longer than to just draw stuff up. I just don't see any better way around it.
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Jun 29, 2019 11:58:07 GMT -6
I recently heard a podcast on USAFB on doing away with scout cards and just calling the play how our team would call it. I think this is a great idea. I think it will speed things up and allow our younger guys to learn our offense. My question is... if you are spread team and you are playing a wing-t team... how do you make it work? Have any of you gone away with scout cards? All of the problems with doing away with scout cards have been mentioned but I agree with: 1. Facing a team whose offense is nothing like yours or similar but with different blocking schemes. 2. Players playing out of position on scout team. 3. There's a reason that they're on scout team, especially if you don't platoon.
|
|
|
Post by buckeye7525 on Jun 29, 2019 13:50:31 GMT -6
One thing I have done is create scout D wristbands to save time. I do like that, it worked pretty well when I’ve had time to do it. Care to elaborate? So I've done this two different ways. The first way I started doing a few years ago was to take about 6 fronts that we were going to see and draw them up in Hudl then just to copy and paste the diagrams onto a template that I created. I got this idea from coachplaa on this board. An example is below drive.google.com/file/d/12UDKWKQqH-Bx09P6pmVOEXdiO6JLjQtR/view?usp=sharingI'd just give out the WBs to the kids and tell them what letter they are. Overall it worked pretty well. It did take a little while to make them in Hudl and then copy and paste to make sure that you got the size right. Obviously the limiting factor is the number of slots that you have. If we were playing a team that ran a lot of fronts or blitzes then I may make two sets of the WBs. The second way I started doing it last year was to create separate WB for each player. The WB had 30 slots (so you could have 15 distinct D calls on there R/L). I got this idea from a Cheifpigskin video from the OL coach at Illinois State (I believe). Each players band had one column titled "Align" and another column titled "Assign". So initially they were told where to line up (we did ours by specific technique but you could also just say "head up on the guard, shaded to the center's right, etc) and then exactly what to do. The "align" The "assign" could be something like React R/P, Play Block, Slant A gap, etc. An example of that is below drive.google.com/file/d/1oRn0Fk7Urh3_3sZd9qJXAXy6MGpMvcIZ/view?usp=sharing Creating these is pretty easy if you have any Excel/Sheets knowledge. I just created a master tab that went 1-30 where I wrote out the defensive front and offensive formation. Then I created each position on a separate column and just wrote in their alignment/assignment for that specific call. I'd use that master sheet to script from. You can see an example of the snap shot below drive.google.com/file/d/1-0MfaxyPtzMd5ARNq6Ej2TsJtYZ8Xv7A/view?usp=sharing That one did take some time but the thing I did at the start of the year was to create generic ones for a 4-3, 4-2, 3-3, 3-4 and we worked through for camp. Then when we played a team that was similar you just had to adjust specific things and you were ready to go. The hardest part was keeping the Right side personnel vs Left side personnel straight in my head when I was writing them up. We used this up through camp and the first 2-3 weeks of the season and it worked pretty well, but eventually went back to scout cards at the HCs request.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Jun 29, 2019 14:33:55 GMT -6
So I've done this two different ways. The first way I started doing a few years ago was to take about 6 fronts that we were going to see and draw them up in Hudl then just to copy and paste the diagrams onto a template that I created. I got this idea from coachplaa on this board. An example is below drive.google.com/file/d/12UDKWKQqH-Bx09P6pmVOEXdiO6JLjQtR/view?usp=sharingI'd just give out the WBs to the kids and tell them what letter they are. Overall it worked pretty well. It did take a little while to make them in Hudl and then copy and paste to make sure that you got the size right. Obviously the limiting factor is the number of slots that you have. If we were playing a team that ran a lot of fronts or blitzes then I may make two sets of the WBs. The second way I started doing it last year was to create separate WB for each player. The WB had 30 slots (so you could have 15 distinct D calls on there R/L). I got this idea from a Cheifpigskin video from the OL coach at Illinois State (I believe). Each players band had one column titled "Align" and another column titled "Assign". So initially they were told where to line up (we did ours by specific technique but you could also just say "head up on the guard, shaded to the center's right, etc) and then exactly what to do. The "align" The "assign" could be something like React R/P, Play Block, Slant A gap, etc. An example of that is below drive.google.com/file/d/1oRn0Fk7Urh3_3sZd9qJXAXy6MGpMvcIZ/view?usp=sharing Creating these is pretty easy if you have any Excel/Sheets knowledge. I just created a master tab that went 1-30 where I wrote out the defensive front and offensive formation. Then I created each position on a separate column and just wrote in their alignment/assignment for that specific call. I'd use that master sheet to script from. You can see an example of the snap shot below drive.google.com/file/d/1-0MfaxyPtzMd5ARNq6Ej2TsJtYZ8Xv7A/view?usp=sharing That one did take some time but the thing I did at the start of the year was to create generic ones for a 4-3, 4-2, 3-3, 3-4 and we worked through for camp. Then when we played a team that was similar you just had to adjust specific things and you were ready to go. The hardest part was keeping the Right side personnel vs Left side personnel straight in my head when I was writing them up. We used this up through camp and the first 2-3 weeks of the season and it worked pretty well, but eventually went back to scout cards at the HCs request. What were you trying to get out of this?
|
|
|
Post by coachdubyah on Jun 29, 2019 14:43:18 GMT -6
I’m gonna give wristbands a go this year for Lineman. Saw a deal at a clinic that had digital wristbands with plays drawn up. I’ve always said I could just do that by making a 6 block grid and drawing up schemes in them (most HS teams only have 5 runs). Just seems in my experience that the line screws up more stuff than backs. Idk we will see.
Basically, just number each box on the grid and tell the line what diagram to look at and do it. Never huddle them up. Works in my head anyway.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Jun 29, 2019 14:54:16 GMT -6
I’m gonna give wristbands a go this year for Lineman. Saw a deal at a clinic that had digital wristbands with plays drawn up. I’ve always said I could just do that by making a 6 block grid and drawing up schemes in them (most HS teams only have 5 runs). Just seems in my experience that the line screws up more stuff than backs. Idk we will see. Basically, just number each box on the grid and tell the line what diagram to look at and do it. Never huddle them up. Works in my head anyway. And I will ask you the same thing as I did above. What are you trying to get out of this?
|
|
|
Post by buckeye7525 on Jun 29, 2019 15:26:23 GMT -6
So I've done this two different ways. The first way I started doing a few years ago was to take about 6 fronts that we were going to see and draw them up in Hudl then just to copy and paste the diagrams onto a template that I created. I got this idea from coachplaa on this board. An example is below drive.google.com/file/d/12UDKWKQqH-Bx09P6pmVOEXdiO6JLjQtR/view?usp=sharingI'd just give out the WBs to the kids and tell them what letter they are. Overall it worked pretty well. It did take a little while to make them in Hudl and then copy and paste to make sure that you got the size right. Obviously the limiting factor is the number of slots that you have. If we were playing a team that ran a lot of fronts or blitzes then I may make two sets of the WBs. The second way I started doing it last year was to create separate WB for each player. The WB had 30 slots (so you could have 15 distinct D calls on there R/L). I got this idea from a Cheifpigskin video from the OL coach at Illinois State (I believe). Each players band had one column titled "Align" and another column titled "Assign". So initially they were told where to line up (we did ours by specific technique but you could also just say "head up on the guard, shaded to the center's right, etc) and then exactly what to do. The "align" The "assign" could be something like React R/P, Play Block, Slant A gap, etc. An example of that is below drive.google.com/file/d/1oRn0Fk7Urh3_3sZd9qJXAXy6MGpMvcIZ/view?usp=sharing Creating these is pretty easy if you have any Excel/Sheets knowledge. I just created a master tab that went 1-30 where I wrote out the defensive front and offensive formation. Then I created each position on a separate column and just wrote in their alignment/assignment for that specific call. I'd use that master sheet to script from. You can see an example of the snap shot below drive.google.com/file/d/1-0MfaxyPtzMd5ARNq6Ej2TsJtYZ8Xv7A/view?usp=sharing That one did take some time but the thing I did at the start of the year was to create generic ones for a 4-3, 4-2, 3-3, 3-4 and we worked through for camp. Then when we played a team that was similar you just had to adjust specific things and you were ready to go. The hardest part was keeping the Right side personnel vs Left side personnel straight in my head when I was writing them up. We used this up through camp and the first 2-3 weeks of the season and it worked pretty well, but eventually went back to scout cards at the HCs request. What were you trying to get out of this? The biggest thing we wanted to do was to operate at a no huddle pace offensively but still get the proper defensive look. This allowed our scout D to get the play faster than if we were huddling looking at a card.
|
|
|
Post by coachdubyah on Jun 29, 2019 16:09:49 GMT -6
I’m gonna give wristbands a go this year for Lineman. Saw a deal at a clinic that had digital wristbands with plays drawn up. I’ve always said I could just do that by making a 6 block grid and drawing up schemes in them (most HS teams only have 5 runs). Just seems in my experience that the line screws up more stuff than backs. Idk we will see. Basically, just number each box on the grid and tell the line what diagram to look at and do it. Never huddle them up. Works in my head anyway. And I will ask you the same thing as I did above. What are you trying to get out of this? Yeah you caught me. I didn’t read the whole thread...A bunch of lines on paper can get confusing, I have found that when you compartmentalize things it tends to run a little smoother. I’ve actually done something similar before with cards but I’m thinking maybe this will help the flow of practice. All this being said I’m going to give this a go when we get back from 4th of July week. To see if it’s feasible. I’ve been sitting here thinking about it and I’m going to make some templates this week just to see.
|
|
|
Post by planck on Jun 29, 2019 16:45:22 GMT -6
So I've done this two different ways... Thanks coach, great stuff!
|
|
|
Post by fballcoachg on Jun 29, 2019 17:30:13 GMT -6
We do scout cards BUT I put the plays in our terminology when I can
That way we have the bases covered, we are prepping for them hike repping some of our younger dudes in our offense
|
|
|
Post by PIGSKIN11 on Jun 29, 2019 23:36:59 GMT -6
Lots of great ideas on here
I love scout cards and here is why - it helps ME learn the other teams offense better
Between fixing the Hudl Assist formations, adding in the Off Play name, and drawing my cards? I feel pretty locked in as to what teams want to do...
Often, as I am drawing cards it leads me on tendency hunts and I love that part...
Basically, it helps me with game planning!
I will always call their plays what we would call it, but still draw it up for confusion - kids love to check them Takes a little more time but also allows kids to double check and feel confident they will do the right thing - then they mess up and I ask them why I took hours to draw the dang cards haha
|
|
|
Post by Chris Clement on Jul 19, 2019 14:44:12 GMT -6
When I would run scout O I would draw the plays and put in notations everywhere to put it in our terminology, like the blocking scheme or the pass concept. If the play was exactly something we ran, in every possible detail, I might consider just putting the playcall on the card. But harsh experience taught me that you couldn’t consistently call stuff like “XXX except YYY” without having a visual. It only takes one kid to make a mess of things.
|
|