els36
Sophomore Member
Posts: 238
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Post by els36 on Jun 17, 2019 20:32:16 GMT -6
Just more or less venting. Is it just me or does football seem to be one of the only sports pushing athletes to be multi sport athletes? Maybe its just where I coach, but Baseball pushes Fall,Spring, Summer ball. Basketball and AAU pushing year round basketball, and where I am at, wrestling pushing Spring and Summer freestyle. It amazes me with the war on football. I get its cause of concussions, but in our area we push being a multi sport athlete, yet other sports want kids to specialize. Anyone else?
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Post by MICoach on Jun 17, 2019 21:23:25 GMT -6
I think the biggest reason for this is there isn't as much year-round availability of football stuff for kids to do, especially in colder states. Either we push for multi-sport athletes, or they'll end up as single-sport baseball/basketball/hockey/whatever players.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 17, 2019 21:29:01 GMT -6
Just more or less venting. Is it just me or does football seem to be one of the only sports pushing athletes to be multi sport athletes? Maybe its just where I coach, but Baseball pushes Fall,Spring, Summer ball. Basketball and AAU pushing year round basketball, and where I am at, wrestling pushing Spring and Summer freestyle. It amazes me with the war on football. I get its cause of concussions, but in our area we push being a multi sport athlete, yet other sports want kids to specialize. Anyone else? I think the biggest reason is that baseball and basketball are far more skill based sports than football. So to some people, it may make logical sense that playing those sports year round, or even worse, specializing in just that sport will result in improved abilities. Compare that to say football, where even without the concussion issue, I think most of would agree that having a player put another 80 lbs on his squat would provide a better benefit than having him work on zone steps year round.
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Post by CS on Jun 18, 2019 3:58:43 GMT -6
We are having problems with our new basketball coaches trying to talk kids out of playing football right now. It’s not a huge deal to our HC because FB is king around here but that sh!t pisses me off.
We don’t do that to them so I really don’t understand why they are doing it
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Post by mrjvi on Jun 18, 2019 5:11:00 GMT -6
This may be the biggest thing that burns my a$$. The "specialization" of kids at the smaller school I'm at now is making it REAL hard to develop the FB program. The other coaches say they don't tell kids not to play football but the way they talk to them CLEARLY gives that message. We just got done with our FB camp we go to each year in June. I had good strength gains from about 3/4 of the 18 kids I had at camp. We were significantly better than last year and we didn't do ANY "off season" FB stuff. The other sports don't train, they play "off season". That's what attracts the live in the moment kids. Kids playing multiple sports AND proper strength training year round would make FB and ALL the other sports better. That's the formula but too much ignorance out there. If the AD's don't make it happen, the schools will wallow in average except for the occasionally successful seasons despite not doing the above. I guess I'm venting also.
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Post by coachdubyah on Jun 19, 2019 4:54:59 GMT -6
This may be the biggest thing that burns my a$$. The "specialization" of kids at the smaller school I'm at now is making it REAL hard to develop the FB program. The other coaches say they don't tell kids not to play football but the way they talk to them CLEARLY gives that message. We just got done with our FB camp we go to each year in June. I had good strength gains from about 3/4 of the 18 kids I had at camp. We were significantly better than last year and we didn't do ANY "off season" FB stuff. The other sports don't train, they play "off season". That's what attracts the live in the moment kids. Kids playing multiple sports AND proper strength training year round would make FB and ALL the other sports better. That's the formula but too much ignorance out there. If the AD's don't make it happen, the schools will wallow in average except for the occasionally successful seasons despite not doing the above. I guess I'm venting also. Do we coach at the same school? I told our coaches yesterday that the players that don’t play more than 1 sport at our school I will be calling those athletes in to ask why. I’m sure I’ll be posting a thread on here in about 5-6 months on how everyone hates me, but it’s an epidemic at our school. Thing is we aren’t very good at any of them.
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Post by coachcb on Jun 19, 2019 5:57:43 GMT -6
Specialization has been an issue for a long time... I can't remember a year I've coached where we haven't dealt with this problem. As FB coaches, we can thump our chests and raise hell about it all day but it's the administration that needs to put some of it down. They can out an end to some of it in a school quickly but not hiring/canning coaches who push the kids towards one sport. The most successful programs I've coached in had multiple sport athletes who lifted and the ADs pushed this. Every coach in those schools were on board with the multiple-sport push and the ADs made sure of it.
At one of these schools, we had a lot of kids who played Legion baseball for a coach who was pushing specialization. It was a giant issue for all of the high school sports; all of the programs lost kids to year-round baseball. One kid told me in the weight room that he was quitting baseball so he could focus on lifting and football over the spring and the summer. Me, being a young and dumb coach, loudly congratulated the kid for making that decision and essentially pushed specialization myself. I got my a-- hauled into the AD's office and he and the HC tore me a new one over it.
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Post by canesfan on Jun 19, 2019 20:17:04 GMT -6
Any coach that pushes specialization should be immediately fired. It’s selfish and dumb.
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Post by tothehouse on Jun 19, 2019 22:11:04 GMT -6
Mid May I was teaching my frosh PE class. Another PE teacher who didn't have a class came up to talk with me. He's a former player of mine (old). I like this kid a lot! Great kid. Multi-sport athlete in HS (football and basketball). He is currently an assistant varsity basketball coach.
He had a concerned look on his face.
I asked him what was up.
He was hesitant, but the crux of the conversation was his concern that basketball is known to not push multi-sport athletes. I explained the situation that I had with my own 3 sport athlete son. I told him how the varsity HC absolutely {censored} my kid when he missed two basketball things in JUNE!!! because he was at football events. How did he get screwed? My son (good player) was playing a fair amount during the spring stuff they were doing. Summer basketball ended at the end of June. The team went to the U. of Oregon for a tournament. My kid had good minutes going...up until this tournament. He missed TWICE...with communication that he was at football stuff. His minutes were DRAMATICALLY less at the U of O tournament.
I explained this to the young coach (who wasn't on the varsity staff at that time). I explained that the coach explained to my son that he didn't play that much because he missed time.
I told the young coach...THAT IS {censored} {censored}. I explained that my kid did everything right. Communicated early. Wasn't sitting at home on the Xbox...he was participating in another sport. He's a coach's kid.
I told the young coach...that is how I perceive basketball treats multi-sport athletes.
I also told him this...I'm only speaking about my kid....but I said..."Look at your roster right now. How many multi-sport guys on it?" I told the young coach...this is how it's perceived basketball treats multi-sport athletes.
Then I said to the young coach. "Do you push your 'basketball only' kids to play any other sport?". I mean push...not just ask "why aren't you playing _____?" I mean...call the football coach or walk the kid in the weight room with the kid and say..."coach...this is a DUDE...he'll score 15 TDs for you at receiver this year".
The young coach didn't have an answer to that. I said, "this is how it's perceived basketball treats multi-sport athletes".
The young coach is really big on how the basketball program is looked at. I said, "Coach. You have things to work on. Because your best players in the program have been football players. YOUR BEST BASKETBALL PLAYERS HAVE BEEN FOOTBALL PLAYERS!!!!"
Our school has a frosh who could be really good and tall when he finishes his career. Scored 10 a game on varsity as a frosh. I told the young coach..."would make a great goal line receiver". He said, "_____ will never play football".
"Have you asked him?" I said.
I agree that it also isn't the coach's issue. It's the AD and Admin's thing. DEMAND multi-sporters.
I told the young coach...about something I read on Twitter. It had to do with baseball. I said to the coach..."if I became the head baseball coach I would do one thing to pick captains on the team". I said..."in order to be a captain of "my" baseball team YOU HAVE TO PLAY ANOTHER SPORT". The young coach didn't agree that was a good idea. I said, "why not?". KIDS SHOULD PLAY EVERYTHING. If you have a Mike Trout like baseball player...you don't think he'd help any only sport on your campus?
Do you think a kid that doesn't play everything in HS looks back on the HS years and says, "Man, I should have played ____". Poor kids are getting told to specialize. Pisses me off.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 20, 2019 8:49:56 GMT -6
Mid May I was teaching my frosh PE class. Another PE teacher who didn't have a class came up to talk with me. He's a former player of mine (old). I like this kid a lot! Great kid. Multi-sport athlete in HS (football and basketball). He is currently an assistant varsity basketball coach.He had a concerned look on his face. I asked him what was up. He was hesitant, but the crux of the conversation was his concern that basketball is known to not push multi-sport athletes. I explained the situation that I had with my own 3 sport athlete son. I told him how the varsity HC absolutely {censored} my kid when he missed two basketball things in JUNE!!! because he was at football events. How did he get screwed? My son (good player) was playing a fair amount during the spring stuff they were doing. Summer basketball ended at the end of June. The team went to the U. of Oregon for a tournament. My kid had good minutes going...up until this tournament. He missed TWICE...with communication that he was at football stuff. His minutes were DRAMATICALLY less at the U of O tournament. I explained this to the young coach (who wasn't on the varsity staff at that time). I explained that the coach explained to my son that he didn't play that much because he missed time. I told the young coach...THAT IS {censored} {censored}. I explained that my kid did everything right. Communicated early. Wasn't sitting at home on the Xbox...he was participating in another sport. He's a coach's kid. I told the young coach...that is how I perceive basketball treats multi-sport athletes. I also told him this...I'm only speaking about my kid....but I said..."Look at your roster right now. How many multi-sport guys on it?" I told the young coach...this is how it's perceived basketball treats multi-sport athletes. Then I said to the young coach. "Do you push your 'basketball only' kids to play any other sport?". I mean push...not just ask "why aren't you playing _____?" I mean...call the football coach or walk the kid in the weight room with the kid and say..."coach...this is a DUDE...he'll score 15 TDs for you at receiver this year". The young coach didn't have an answer to that. I said, "this is how it's perceived basketball treats multi-sport athletes". The young coach is really big on how the basketball program is looked at. I said, "Coach. You have things to work on. Because your best players in the program have been football players. YOUR BEST BASKETBALL PLAYERS HAVE BEEN FOOTBALL PLAYERS!!!!" Our school has a frosh who could be really good and tall when he finishes his career. Scored 10 a game on varsity as a frosh. I told the young coach..."would make a great goal line receiver". He said, "_____ will never play football". "Have you asked him?" I said. I agree that it also isn't the coach's issue. It's the AD and Admin's thing. DEMAND multi-sporters. I told the young coach...about something I read on Twitter. It had to do with baseball. I said to the coach..."if I became the head baseball coach I would do one thing to pick captains on the team". I said..."in order to be a captain of "my" baseball team YOU HAVE TO PLAY ANOTHER SPORT". The young coach didn't agree that was a good idea. I said, "why not?". KIDS SHOULD PLAY EVERYTHING. If you have a Mike Trout like baseball player...you don't think he'd help any only sport on your campus? Do you think a kid that doesn't play everything in HS looks back on the HS years and says, "Man, I should have played ____". Poor kids are getting told to specialize. Pisses me off. I have to ask though, is it everyone else's job to make football interesting and desirable? Setting up an environment and culture that is conducive to multi sport athletes..yes. That should be part of every coach's job description. Walking a kid who apparently doesn't have that much interest or experience in football (otherwise he probably would have already played) to the football coach and trying to ramrod him into playing? Not by a long shot in my opinion.
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Post by tothehouse on Jun 20, 2019 9:13:08 GMT -6
That's why messageboards and emails are tough...because of how it's worded vs. actuality.
Walking someone into the weight room...could be to see the environment. Especially when the basketball team isn't lifting. Maybe a kid goes..."wow...I'd like to be a part of that". And...it doesn't have to be shoving a kid in there and saying..."you need to play". It's more like an introduction to what else is out there.
Yeah...I think it's everyone's job to keep the athletic department in mind. Doesn't have to be on the forefront of their mind, but when numbers at your school are down...you need everyone in every sport. If possible. And since everyone used to play many sports without hesitation every coach, in every sport, should be aware that all these kids could help each other.
Does this mean they'll play that particular sport? No. But there should be an understanding by the AD to talk with the coaches about "encouraging" their sport's athletes to play everything.
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Post by irishdog on Jun 20, 2019 10:00:30 GMT -6
Ranting. I've coached this game for over 40 years at the college and high school levels. I played the game. I was coached by men who played the game. Mostly military men whose sole mission in life was to make us tough. Bottom line. Football has always been about HARD WORK! The sport alone lends itself to developing mental and physical toughness which requires HARD WORK to develop strength, explosive movement, athleticism, and at the same time help create a WORK ETHIC in each participant.
Those days are gone. Today it's all about coming up with creative and innovative ways to disguise the HARD WORK as FUN. Today's kid just wants to have fun. To them it's all about them and their good times, and finding ways around working hard. If we aren't willing to figure out how to reach this new breed of cat football will continue to lose kids to other sports.
In many ways we have done this to ourselves. There are a ton of reasons. Among them allowing high school sports seasons to become too long and run into one another. Allowing youth sports seasons to run into high school seasons instead of being summer only activities. Creating "travel" teams, "all-star" teams, "showcases", etc. (Translation?: make those teams because mommy and daddy can afford it). Allowing corporate sponsors to "pay" coaches of those teams to "market" their product. Creating "corporate" schools (we're a Nike school; we're an Adidas school; we're an Under Armour school), over-indulged parents leading to ridiculous entitlement issues, etc. etc. So...We either must find a way to live with it and find ways to make it work, or just blow it all up and start all over again.
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Post by blb on Jun 20, 2019 10:50:30 GMT -6
If a coach in your building is telling his players to specialize or not play football go talk to him man-to-man.
If it continues, take it up the chain of command (AD, principal, superintendent).
Some of us worry too much about who's not playing rather than developing-coaching-taking care of the ones who are.
You can't do anything about those who aren't there anymore than you can about the players another school has.
Meanwhile continue to encourage your players to get involved in as many sports-activities as they have interest and ability in.
HS kids should go on all the rides they can. It's HS, and their last chance at some of those opportunities.
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Post by tothehouse on Jun 20, 2019 11:03:42 GMT -6
BLB - my issue is that the "old" way was just what everyone expected. Kids moved from sport to sport. You're saying "you can't do anything about those who aren't there". I'm saying you can. Like fighting for kids to come out and play for you.
Everyone talks about "recruiting your halls". This is what that means in my opinion. Are we not supposed to "recruit" a kid from our halls because he's "baseball only"? That's BS.
I guess I'm different. I'd be coaching the heck out of my team. And encouraging the heck out of them to do something else to help sports on our campus. Call that wild and crazy...but it's what I'd do. It'd be cool if others reciprocated.
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Post by morris on Jun 20, 2019 11:12:14 GMT -6
What sucks is those other coaches are very careful how they present things. They will never tell a kid not to play another sport or anything like that. They are good about getting their point across without putting themselves in a position to be called on it.
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Post by blb on Jun 20, 2019 11:27:11 GMT -6
tothehouse I hear you and don't necessarily disagree. Another side of the issue is if you have to talk a kid into coming out, how fully invested is he going to be? Will he feel you "owe" him something (playing time) because you recruited him? This may not be best example but at my last job we had a young man come out as a senior who had not played the two previous years (he did play freshman football at his former school). I didn't actively "recruit" him but his buddies did. He came to every summer workout and our camp. He was starting at DE and playing on some special teams, so PT wasn't an issue. After a couple games he came to me, said he had gotten a new after school job, and so was quitting.
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Post by blb on Jun 20, 2019 11:39:04 GMT -6
What sucks is those other coaches are very careful how they present things. They will never tell a kid not to play another sport or anything like that. They are good about getting their point across without putting themselves in a position to be called on it.
That is true. I have seen coaches (including my former brother-in-law, a HOF volleyball coach) tell kids that if they don't play AAU, travel, Legion, whatever - they may not make the team the next year and then - no chance at the Scholarship Grail.
Don't think that doesn't strike home, including with parents.
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Post by tothehouse on Jun 20, 2019 12:02:27 GMT -6
I'm with you BLB. It's all tougher now...because of the coaches that get away with saying "my" kid and "only play our sport", etc.
And there is a lot of "if you don't play my sport outside of school you can't get a scholarship" etc.
My question is...we went to school to teach/coach. We're professionals (hopefully). We should be staying up on techniques and trends. Why are parents so inclined to listen to the outside "coach"? I'm all for getting second opinions, etc. but when someone outside of the school is saying you should concentrate on one sport...that makes it more difficult because you're "fighting" with some of your own people on campus.
We're all just trying to make our squad better. I'd take a basketball kid in a heartbeat. Wrestler? Yep. Baseball kid. Of course.
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Post by blb on Jun 20, 2019 12:22:42 GMT -6
One of my mentors, a long-time, highly successful coach, told the other people in his building he would support their programs exactly the way they did his.
If the band left football games after their halftime show, he told the director he would have the football team come to the band concert and leave at Intermission.
If the wrestling coach told kids to cut weight, he would discourage them from wrestling (not an issue because the wrestling coach was his freshman coach).
The baseball coach was his JV coach, so they didn't have problems.
He also coached track and when he stepped down as HC (continued as awhile as an assistant), his line coach took over. So no issues there.
They were also very good in those three sports BTW.
(Full disclosure it is not a basketball school, never has been, probably never will be due to the makeup of the school-community and the league they are in. If a coach goes .500 there he should be COY).
He has been retired for 15 years so things may be a little different now a days.
But the football program (under one of his former players) is still one of the most consistent winners in their area.
FWIW.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 20, 2019 12:36:47 GMT -6
BLB - my issue is that the "old" way was just what everyone expected. Kids moved from sport to sport. You're saying "you can't do anything about those who aren't there". I'm saying you can. Like fighting for kids to come out and play for you. I think the wording you used here, although not intentional, subconsciously reveals part of the problem. "Play for you". I think it was larrymoe who stated that sometimes kids don't want to do everything required so the coach can win games. The kids have to want to play football because they want to play football. People don't go to Chick-Fil-A because they want to support the franchise owners. They go because they want a chicken sandwich. Unfortunately, for many people, basketball and baseball offer are better sandwiches. I think it is cool that you encourage them to do something and be a multi sport athlete, but keep in mind the most important part is that the program is something others would want to be a part of. [/quote] I don't disagree at all regarding recruiting the halls. Sure, recruit that baseball kid. And if the baseball coach has an environment that discourages (or worse, actively discourages) multi sport athletes, I feel that is crap. But I don't think it is the baseball coach's job to deliver athletes to you.
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Post by blb on Jun 20, 2019 12:45:07 GMT -6
Obviously the answer is for all football coaches to play "basketball on grass," run the Spread and throw the ball around.
That will entertain the "fans," get the "athletes" out, and convince the parents their sons the QB-WRs will be getting their deserved scholarships.
The only problem is not every HS can win that way.
One of the schools I (and coachjm ) formerly coached at has run the Spread under two different coaches (both of whom played CFB and had 10+ years of prior head coaching experience), total of six years since.
Record of 4-50. Averaged over two TDs a game once.
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Post by tothehouse on Jun 20, 2019 12:52:40 GMT -6
Look 5085. In the end a kid is going to play a sport or not. I get that. Always have. If they don't play the sport I don't care. My concern is that they are being told not to by someone else. That's the point of the thread right?
If the athletic department is telling everyone (coaches) to support each other and encourage multi-sport athletes then they all should. Or don't say you support it.
Because where I sit...a lot of the coaches are selfish. Again...they don't have to physically walk a kid into the weight room. They don't have to talk about other sports during their season. How about encouraging a stud athlete for "your" team going out for something else. I've said encouraged a few times. Will the kid do it? Maybe...maybe not. But then you can say to the other coach..."I talked to Billy. I really see him being a force inside on your basketball team because of how big and strong he is". If nothing comes of it...so be it. I have NEVER heard our basketball coach or baseball coach encouraging a kid to go out for football. "Coach. Johnny jumps out of the gym. He'd be a stud for you in your red zone offense. I'm trying to get him to play football for you". Never heard that and probably never will. Again...I don't care if the kid plays or not. But be on somewhat of the same page....if you're hearing that you should be from the AD. Or again...just let everyone do whatever.
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Post by mariner42 on Jun 20, 2019 13:10:17 GMT -6
Just more or less venting. Is it just me or does football seem to be one of the only sports pushing athletes to be multi sport athletes? Maybe its just where I coach, but Baseball pushes Fall,Spring, Summer ball. Basketball and AAU pushing year round basketball, and where I am at, wrestling pushing Spring and Summer freestyle. It amazes me with the war on football. I get its cause of concussions, but in our area we push being a multi sport athlete, yet other sports want kids to specialize. Anyone else? We do it because football is a sport whose athletes benefit from training a wide variety of skills and competencies. Our kids need to be strong, fast, agile, explosive, and coordinated with stamina. Basketball appreciates a well-rounded athlete, but they don't NEED to be as much as they need technical and tactical competencies that only playing can bring. Our former women's soccer coach played for the US national team and she really opened my eyes about some things. Training physical qualities is important, but a soccer player has to have technical skills to succeed. You can throw an athlete at WR and get production. You can't throw an athlete on the soccer field and get production. You can take a freaky athlete and have success on the basketball court, but he's got a serious limitation if he can't dribble or develop a jump shot. That said, MOST high school athletes need to be more well-rounded in their development and they need coaches who support that. I don't like baseball and basketball keeping athletes year-round, but I REALLY don't like that they don't have any kind of physical development going on. If our basketball program was full of strong, resilient, powerful kids, I'd be happier because at least then I could tell myself that they've got the athletes long-term health in mind. Every time I see a tall, skinny forward with love handles, I die a little inside. As a result, I'm basically Dennis from It's Always Sunny now.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 20, 2019 14:49:31 GMT -6
Just more or less venting. Is it just me or does football seem to be one of the only sports pushing athletes to be multi sport athletes? Maybe its just where I coach, but Baseball pushes Fall,Spring, Summer ball. Basketball and AAU pushing year round basketball, and where I am at, wrestling pushing Spring and Summer freestyle. It amazes me with the war on football. I get its cause of concussions, but in our area we push being a multi sport athlete, yet other sports want kids to specialize. Anyone else? We do it because football is a sport whose athletes benefit from training a wide variety of skills and competencies. Our kids need to be strong, fast, agile, explosive, and coordinated with stamina. Basketball appreciates a well-rounded athlete, but they don't NEED to be as much as they need technical and tactical competencies that only playing can bring. Our former women's soccer coach played for the US national team and she really opened my eyes about some things. Training physical qualities is important, but a soccer player has to have technical skills to succeed. You can throw an athlete at WR and get production. You can't throw an athlete on the soccer field and get production. You can take a freaky athlete and have success on the basketball court, but he's got a serious limitation if he can't dribble or develop a jump shot. That said, MOST high school athletes need to be more well-rounded in their development and they need coaches who support that. I don't like baseball and basketball keeping athletes year-round, but I REALLY don't like that they don't have any kind of physical development going on. If our basketball program was full of strong, resilient, powerful kids, I'd be happier because at least then I could tell myself that they've got the athletes long-term health in mind. Every time I see a tall, skinny forward with love handles, I die a little inside. As a result, I'm basically Dennis from It's Always Sunny now. Exactly. As I stated before (either here or another thread) football is not a skill sport to the same degree as basketball, baseball, soccer, volleyball etc. Plus, this is a football coaching board. I don't think that the members would have a representative pulse of the enjoyment level of the average player nor the attractiveness of the sport of football to athletes. That said, coaches who conduct their programs in a manner than discourages athletes to play multiple sports should be disciplined.
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Post by coachcb on Jun 21, 2019 5:58:47 GMT -6
What sucks is those other coaches are very careful how they present things. They will never tell a kid not to play another sport or anything like that. They are good about getting their point across without putting themselves in a position to be called on it.
That is true. I have seen coaches (including my former brother-in-law, a HOF volleyball coach) tell kids that if they don't play AAU, travel, Legion, whatever - they may not make the team the next year and then - no chance at the Scholarship Grail.
Unfortunately, this isn't just lip service from some coaches that push specialization. I've seen several successful basketball and volleyball programs that basically demanded specialization and many kids wouldn't have made the team if they didn't practice and play basketball or volleyball year round. A lot of kids that didn't specialize fell behind those that did, skill wise, and ended up cut from the team.
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Post by coachcb on Jun 21, 2019 6:08:21 GMT -6
We do it because football is a sport whose athletes benefit from training a wide variety of skills and competencies. Our kids need to be strong, fast, agile, explosive, and coordinated with stamina. Basketball appreciates a well-rounded athlete, but they don't NEED to be as much as they need technical and tactical competencies that only playing can bring. Our former women's soccer coach played for the US national team and she really opened my eyes about some things. Training physical qualities is important, but a soccer player has to have technical skills to succeed. You can throw an athlete at WR and get production. You can't throw an athlete on the soccer field and get production. You can take a freaky athlete and have success on the basketball court, but he's got a serious limitation if he can't dribble or develop a jump shot. That said, MOST high school athletes need to be more well-rounded in their development and they need coaches who support that. I don't like baseball and basketball keeping athletes year-round, but I REALLY don't like that they don't have any kind of physical development going on. If our basketball program was full of strong, resilient, powerful kids, I'd be happier because at least then I could tell myself that they've got the athletes long-term health in mind. Every time I see a tall, skinny forward with love handles, I die a little inside. As a result, I'm basically Dennis from It's Always Sunny now. Exactly. As I stated before (either here or another thread) football is not a skill sport to the same degree as basketball, baseball, soccer, volleyball etc. Plus, this is a football coaching board. I don't think that the members would have a representative pulse of the enjoyment level of the average player nor the attractiveness of the sport of football to athletes. That said, coaches who conduct their programs in a manner than discourages athletes to play multiple sports should be disciplined.
I get that some kids just don't like football and I hammer them about participating in other fall sports if that's the case. Our cross country coach likes me because we've had a few kids who didn't enjoy football and quit so I drove them his way. They were also die hard basketball players so it wasn't hard for me to say "What's going to be better for your basketball game: lifting and going to an open gym every week or lifting and running cross country every day?"
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 21, 2019 6:29:16 GMT -6
That is true. I have seen coaches (including my former brother-in-law, a HOF volleyball coach) tell kids that if they don't play AAU, travel, Legion, whatever - they may not make the team the next year and then - no chance at the Scholarship Grail.
Unfortunately, this isn't just lip service from some coaches that push specialization. I've seen several successful basketball and volleyball programs that basically demanded specialization and many kids wouldn't have made the team if they didn't practice and play basketball or volleyball year round. A lot of kids that didn't specialize fell behind those that did, skill wise, and ended up cut from the team.
That is the sticky part there though. As mentioned a few times by posters here, football is probably on of the least "skill based" team sports if not sports in general. So, if playing year round and "specializing" is necessary to compete at a high level (or heck, even keep up and make the team) how can football coaches begrudge an athlete for doing so, or more accurately another coach from advising an athlete on how to best mange that particular sport? Now that coaches that use the allure of "scholarships", particularly regarding those 6'3-6'5 post players, or any baseball player...they should be thumped. But if a particular program is operating at such a level that a kid who spends say June-October running buck sweep and waggle instead of taking 200 cuts a day in the cage, or a quick release jump shot 100 times a day or whatever wouldn't be able to keep up in his/her preferred sport, is it appropriate to try and discourage that for the sake of "helping the football team" ?
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Post by 44dlcoach on Jun 21, 2019 6:35:57 GMT -6
I don't buy that basketball is as specialized and skill driven as some of these other sports. A good athlete that can run the floor and execute on offense and move his feet and execute the defensive scheme is a damn good basketball player. The NBA has a bunch of guys who can't particularly dribble or shoot for that level but they bring other things to the table.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 21, 2019 6:50:12 GMT -6
I don't buy that basketball is as specialized and skill driven as some of these other sports. A good athlete that can run the floor and execute on offense and move his feet and execute the defensive scheme is a damn good basketball player. The NBA has a bunch of guys who can't particularly dribble or shoot for that level but they bring other things to the table. Those guys that you speak of generally bring height to the table. Plus, I think trying to compare the NBA structure (isolation, super star driven, 24 second shot clock, giant human beings, ) to lower levels just doesn't work. Plus, as you mentioned, they can't particularly dribble or shoot "FOR THAT LEVEL" meaning that their dribbling and shooting is lacking when being compared to and competing against the most talented players in the world. I am betting they probably dribble and shoot pretty well compared to others. Looking at Kobe and then saying "that other guy over there isn't all that" is a bit deceptive.
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Post by 44dlcoach on Jun 21, 2019 7:43:11 GMT -6
I don't buy that basketball is as specialized and skill driven as some of these other sports. A good athlete that can run the floor and execute on offense and move his feet and execute the defensive scheme is a damn good basketball player. The NBA has a bunch of guys who can't particularly dribble or shoot for that level but they bring other things to the table. Those guys that you speak of generally bring height to the table. Plus, I think trying to compare the NBA structure (isolation, super star driven, 24 second shot clock, giant human beings, ) to lower levels just doesn't work. Plus, as you mentioned, they can't particularly dribble or shoot "FOR THAT LEVEL" meaning that their dribbling and shooting is lacking when being compared to and competing against the most talented players in the world. I am betting they probably dribble and shoot pretty well compared to others. Looking at Kobe and then saying "that other guy over there isn't all that" is a bit deceptive. Sure, they are the best in the world but that's not who these high school kids are competing against either. I think there are plenty of guys in the NBA that don't bring height relative to their opponents and aren't great dribbles or shooters relative to their opponents, but are still really effective players relative to their opponents. I'm not trying to look at Kobe and say "that other guys stinks". Im saying that at the highest level of the game there are players whose skill level is lower than that of their peers who are still valuable and effective players because of athleticism, execution, and filling a role. We can agree to disagree to avoid sidetracking the thread, my point is simply that you can be a really good basketball player without spending 12 months a year practicing your Steph Curry pregame routine.
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