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Post by planck on Jun 11, 2019 10:07:01 GMT -6
I'm probably not the only guy who has ever gotten film from an opponent for trade that is dodgy at best. Maybe they have a kid film it or whatever, it's kind of crummy film. But I'm trying to figure out what to do when a team sends you film that, as far as I can tell, is intentionally useless.
We received film trade from an opponent about a week ago; 6 of their games from last year. This team throws a lot, and every run they have is either an RPO or uses a read-option scheme. The film we received is a tight, ground-level zoom that goes from tackle to tackle. The tight end is cut off, you literally can't see a receiver, and the backfield is being filmed through the line.
In short, I basically can see if the play is a run or pass, and that's it. I can't tell the formation, the routes, who the QB is reading, what the defensive front is, anything.
Now, I can resolve this by reaching out to their opponents who, hopefully, shot usable film. But I'm trying to figure out if I should make a stink about the quality of the film. Normally, I would just assume they had a kid or parent shoot it, and it sucks. Except I know for a fact that they have a very nice, expensive filming set up in a press box high above the field; last year when we played at their field, they kicked our film crew out of their press box and made us use the "visiting press box", which is a shanty with a leaking roof and no power that sits behind the visiting bleachers (seats 100, 3 rows tall). We were evicted for their radio and tv crews.
So, in short, what do you do when a team is intentionally trying to keep everyone from having film of them? I'm about to resort to buying a drone and flying it over their field.
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Post by realdawg on Jun 11, 2019 10:30:56 GMT -6
Unless you have a league by law requiring certain trade stipulations I’d say there isn’t a lot you can do other than reach out to their opponents and see if they have a better copy they might send you. It stinks but I’ve been there. Spread teams that throw it around send you a film with just the OL and veer or wing t teams send you a wide shot that was filmed from the moon so you can’t see the blocking schemes.
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Post by Coach.A on Jun 11, 2019 11:39:17 GMT -6
We were evicted for their radio and tv crews.
When you say "TV Crew", do you mean the game was broadcasted on television? If yes, why not track down a copy of that film? |
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Post by planck on Jun 11, 2019 11:55:17 GMT -6
Yes, the local station broadcasts their home games. I had the same thought you did, but unfortunately I haven't been able to get that film (yet). Fingers crossed.
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Post by planck on Jun 11, 2019 11:57:14 GMT -6
Unless you have a league by law requiring certain trade stipulations I’d say there isn’t a lot you can do other than reach out to their opponents and see if they have a better copy they might send you. It stinks but I’ve been there. Spread teams that throw it around send you a film with just the OL and veer or wing t teams send you a wide shot that was filmed from the moon so you can’t see the blocking schemes. The thing that cracks me up is that it isn't like they're a major competitor in the state. Last year they were 5-5 (of course, we were worse, but whatever). I don't think the thing that's keeping them from the crown is opponents having usable film. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 11, 2019 12:01:19 GMT -6
Unless you have a league by law requiring certain trade stipulations I’d say there isn’t a lot you can do other than reach out to their opponents and see if they have a better copy they might send you. It stinks but I’ve been there. Spread teams that throw it around send you a film with just the OL and veer or wing t teams send you a wide shot that was filmed from the moon so you can’t see the blocking schemes. The thing that cracks me up is that it isn't like they're a major competitor in the state. Last year they were 5-5 (of course, we were worse, but whatever). I don't think the thing that's keeping them from the crown is opponents having usable film. In all honesty, I would probably call the HC and ask him what is up. Ask if they accidentally sent you guys the tight copy of film. If they respond like d bags, then file it away, and give them the same in the future. |
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Post by realdawg on Jun 11, 2019 12:12:40 GMT -6
I swear we play some teams that have an extra film guy whose job is to film a crap copy of the game. Bc there is no way their coaches are watching that mess. Now we only film two copies. A wide and an end zone. So what we watch is what our opponents get. Not to say our guys don’t occasionally miss a play or accidentally film the huddle and cut it off during the play. But generally our opponent gets a pretty good copy.
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Post by planck on Jun 11, 2019 12:18:14 GMT -6
I swear we play some teams that have an extra film guy whose job is to film a crap copy of the game. Bc there is no way their coaches are watching that mess. Now we only film two copies. A wide and an end zone. So what we watch is what our opponents get. Not to say our guys don’t occasionally miss a play or accidentally film the huddle and cut it off during the play. But generally our opponent gets a pretty good copy. Same. Before I started working the sideline, I took a lot of pride in producing good film. Shoot wide, capture all-22, get the offense when they break the huddle so we can see how they approach the line, shifts, motions, etc. You can always cut film, but you can't capture film that wasn't shot in the first place.
I sincerely believe some teams go out of their way to be a nuisance by giving crappy film. While I'm all for being super competitive and looking for whatever edge you can get, I think this is kind of crap is extremely petty. If they're going to keep this up, we'll just send a scout and post their film to youtube to make sure everybody who wants it can get it.
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Post by dijackson08 on Jun 11, 2019 12:41:07 GMT -6
I normally contact the other teams they’ve played and explain the situation. Most coaches don’t mind sending the film if y’all don’t play each other.
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Post by utchuckd on Jun 11, 2019 13:32:15 GMT -6
Back in the VHS days we had an opponent that would hit start on the camera and never stop it until halftime, when they would change tapes, and after the game. We would have 2 full video tapes of content for each game. We had to either spend time trying to cut it up into smaller film or fight the cowboy clicker trying to get to the next play. We had everything they did though.
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Post by Mav on Jun 11, 2019 13:45:06 GMT -6
Do a quick google search for their Hudl highlights. I'd bet they're shot from a proper angle.
Send the highlights link to the coach and tell him a fair trade is for this angle. He could be just testing you guys to see what they can get away with.
If not, he's probably done it to all his opponents, so they may be willing to let you have their copy.
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Post by mdunham on Jun 11, 2019 16:07:55 GMT -6
Unfortunately I’ve had a couple teams that have had poor film but I think it’s kids filming and no way it’s intentional. Usually I have more issues actually getting film in a timely manner. Since we only have 1 camera, I am tasked with filming to ensure that we 1) have a useable copy for our team and 2) to have usable film to exchange. I’ve seen past years on HUDL before I was with the program and honestly I feel bad for some of the film we had to send out - even if we were not good.
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Post by coachfrigo on Jun 13, 2019 0:05:19 GMT -6
I know it technically isn't cheating, but I consider those who skirt quality film trading to pretty much be cheating. Nothing you can do in many states, but we always made sure opponents got high quality film.
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Post by coachnight on Jun 13, 2019 8:50:33 GMT -6
In this age of technology, I really find it interesting that more leagues don't have film trade built in. We all don't have huge staffs, outside of Texas, none of us get paid a lot to coach. Build in a good trade proposal, (2 or 3 games), trade film, and we all get to spend more time on our own team or with our families. I love the scouting days of the past when we had to do it, but with Hudl and other programs, there is no real need to scout. Some of us love to see it in person. I love to scout without the camera attached to my hand.
If you want something extra than the 2 or 3 games, have at it. But film is film. We are going to get it one way or the other, let's help each other out a bit.
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