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Post by chainbucket on Apr 4, 2019 10:36:18 GMT -6
To piggy back off what others have said I see some notable problems:
1. Students transferring would need to move or provide their own transportation because...
2. No state I know of would be able to afford to bus a singular students in from distant locations. While this seems like common sense I feel its significant because transporting them in from distant area would constitute a privilege or accommodation. When a government accommodates one person they must accommodate all peoples in a similar situation or the policy is discriminatory. Which means it could be argued...
3. That any special privileges given to a "recruit" but that are not available to the student body of that state as a whole constitutes discrimination.
4. Many schools receive government funding based on the number of students that attend their school. I am not sure but I think it could be argued that recruiting athletes out of poor areas could be considered as discrimination against the remainder of students in that area, especially if they are minority.
Not sure how much if any of this would work but I think civil rights law is the way to go if you want a coherent argument against recruiting in public schools. None of this would apply to private schools.
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Post by Coach Vint on Apr 4, 2019 10:45:55 GMT -6
Very few arguments here were about coaches. Coaches don't like the rule because it creates two cesspools. One with unscrupulous guys doing underhanded crap to get kids to transfer, and other where kids flee accountability. It is all about kids. What is best for kids. Is it best to transfer, or stick it out. Is it best for kids to be able to go wherever they want any time they want, or is it best for them to overcome things that don't please them?
You are right about one thing. Parents. Kids haven't changed much in the last 50 years, but parents sure have. Especially with social media and the ego. Let me show pictures of little Johnny doing his thing. Look at my son. Look at my daughter.
And then the My 5-8 120 pound guard should be starting. The coach doesn't like him. He should have D-1 offers already. And when the parent doesn't get what they want, they might leave. That's why we have mentally weak kids. We have mentally weak parents.
There are two kinds of parents, those who prepare their child for the path, and those who prepare the path for the child. Too many parents try to prepare the path. The kid never faces adversity so they never learn to deal with it.
One of my buddies has spent at least $50k on travel baseball, hitting lessons, camps, etc for his son in the last 5 years. HIs son is now 13 and he said he is trying to help him get a D1 scholarship. If he invested that $50k and the other $50k he will spend in the next 5 years, he would be able to pay for 5 college educations. It is all about saying, "my son is D-1."
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Post by coachklee on Apr 4, 2019 11:01:27 GMT -6
With all due respect you sound exactly like what you are preaching against.....entitled. Your first example is what if you have a STUD WR & a coach who chucks the ball 40 times & then you change to a SW. Well, let me ask you this: Let's say you have stud WR & coach who chucks the ball 40X & the coach stays but decides to run the ball a TON the following year b/c his QB graduated & the next kid up has silly string for an arm? Or just doesn't make great decisions w/ the ball? I'm guessing, again w/ all due respect, that you are on the upside of things right now as a program so your thoughts are, why shouldn't kids get to transfer here b/c we're awesome! But if you were on the other side, and kids were leaving you'd feel different. Furthermore, what you're preaching is, if you don't like the way things are going, just leave. Is that what you're going to tell your players when they marry? What your wife gained a little baby weight after your 3rd child was born? You didn't sign up for that? Meh, trade her in for a younger model. Thank God our military doesn't subscribe to your mentality, or we'd all be speaking German. Sometimes things aren't what we always want, but it's awfully hard to fix them by "outworking the other guy" when your program is a revolving door. Maybe a coach retires and a new guy comes in, should everybody leave immediately & not even give him a chance b/c it might be hard? Can't coach ghosts. I suspect however, no matter what is said you will not change your mind. The only thing that will change it is life experience. JMO. So a lot of assumptions here coach...guess you missed the part where I said...I don't know if I am for or against the idea. As for my program, nope not on upside at all, in fact moved from a very good program to one that went 1-8 the year before (I don't live in the district, I don't get paid and my kid plays in another district). I didn't preach anything, I simply provided the other side of the argument. Here are the facts gentlemen, Parents are voters, parents can influence and if the only argument against letting parents do whatever they want and transfer kids all over is "its bad for the coach". Well guess what, nobody gives a flying frog's butt about you...so this little experiment was to see how you will argue either for or against it, as it is coming and will be coming your way...if it hasn't already. So you better be able to argue your point from logic and not cause your butt hurt you may loose your job. Parents vote.... There are extremes to everything and yes you could have kids move because of being butt hurt. As for the military comment....There is an EGA hanging on my wall... You don’t “know if you are for or against the idea”?!? You titled the thread “Change my mind, prove me wrong!” & then proceeded to argue why there should be no limitations on transfers because it is what is “best” for kids.
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Post by Defcord on Apr 4, 2019 11:04:09 GMT -6
Very few arguments here were about coaches. Coaches don't like the rule because it creates two cesspools. One with unscrupulous guys doing underhanded crap to get kids to transfer, and other where kids flee accountability. It is all about kids. What is best for kids. Is it best to transfer, or stick it out. Is it best for kids to be able to go wherever they want any time they want, or is it best for them to overcome things that don't please them? You are right about one thing. Parents. Kids haven't changed much in the last 50 years, but parents sure have. Especially with social media and the ego. Let me show pictures of little Johnny doing his thing. Look at my son. Look at my daughter. And then the My 5-8 120 pound guard should be starting. The coach doesn't like him. He should have D-1 offers already. And when the parent doesn't get what they want, they might leave. That's why we have mentally weak kids. We have mentally weak parents. There are two kinds of parents, those who prepare their child for the path, and those who prepare the path for the child. Too many parents try to prepare the path. The kid never faces adversity so they never learn to deal with it. One of my buddies has spent at least $50k on travel baseball, hitting lessons, camps, etc for his son in the last 5 years. HIs son is now 13 and he said he is trying to help him get a D1 scholarship. If he invested that $50k and the other $50k he will spend in the next 5 years, he would be able to pay for 5 college educations. It is all about saying, "my son is D-1." I assume he doesn't realize that the D1 baseball scholarships are pretty different than the football. The "D1" brand is extremely powerful to some people, sadly.
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Post by fshamrock on Apr 4, 2019 11:10:48 GMT -6
Very few arguments here were about coaches. Coaches don't like the rule because it creates two cesspools. One with unscrupulous guys doing underhanded crap to get kids to transfer, and other where kids flee accountability. It is all about kids. What is best for kids. Is it best to transfer, or stick it out. Is it best for kids to be able to go wherever they want any time they want, or is it best for them to overcome things that don't please them? You are right about one thing. Parents. Kids haven't changed much in the last 50 years, but parents sure have. Especially with social media and the ego. Let me show pictures of little Johnny doing his thing. Look at my son. Look at my daughter. And then the My 5-8 120 pound guard should be starting. The coach doesn't like him. He should have D-1 offers already. And when the parent doesn't get what they want, they might leave. That's why we have mentally weak kids. We have mentally weak parents. There are two kinds of parents, those who prepare their child for the path, and those who prepare the path for the child. Too many parents try to prepare the path. The kid never faces adversity so they never learn to deal with it. One of my buddies has spent at least $50k on travel baseball, hitting lessons, camps, etc for his son in the last 5 years. HIs son is now 13 and he said he is trying to help him get a D1 scholarship. If he invested that $50k and the other $50k he will spend in the next 5 years, he would be able to pay for 5 college educations. It is all about saying, "my son is D-1." It's all about having something to brag about on the golf course. None of us our immune to the desire for status among our peers, it's in the DNA. Whether it's titles, job's, attractiveness of our wives, cars, trucks, trucks with really big tires for no apparent reason, outdoor kitchens....whatever, it's all part of the presentation. Unfortunately kids get lumped into this thing inadvertently and become status symbols for parents ego's. That how you end up with a 7 year old kid getting chewed out by an otherwise well adjusted adult for failing to hit a ball with a stick, or for getting a B on the 4th grade spelling test. I have a neighbor lady across the street about burn down the entire district because her daughter didn't pass the GT test in kindergarten. I explained to her that plenty of elementary GT kids become dopeheads and dropouts, and while plenty of kids that never got picked for it end up happy, well adjusted adults...she knows this is true, and doesn't care, it's got nothing to do with the kid's future and everything to do with having something to humble brag about during jazzercize
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Post by Coach Vint on Apr 4, 2019 12:44:56 GMT -6
Very few arguments here were about coaches. Coaches don't like the rule because it creates two cesspools. One with unscrupulous guys doing underhanded crap to get kids to transfer, and other where kids flee accountability. It is all about kids. What is best for kids. Is it best to transfer, or stick it out. Is it best for kids to be able to go wherever they want any time they want, or is it best for them to overcome things that don't please them? You are right about one thing. Parents. Kids haven't changed much in the last 50 years, but parents sure have. Especially with social media and the ego. Let me show pictures of little Johnny doing his thing. Look at my son. Look at my daughter. And then the My 5-8 120 pound guard should be starting. The coach doesn't like him. He should have D-1 offers already. And when the parent doesn't get what they want, they might leave. That's why we have mentally weak kids. We have mentally weak parents. There are two kinds of parents, those who prepare their child for the path, and those who prepare the path for the child. Too many parents try to prepare the path. The kid never faces adversity so they never learn to deal with it. One of my buddies has spent at least $50k on travel baseball, hitting lessons, camps, etc for his son in the last 5 years. HIs son is now 13 and he said he is trying to help him get a D1 scholarship. If he invested that $50k and the other $50k he will spend in the next 5 years, he would be able to pay for 5 college educations. It is all about saying, "my son is D-1." I assume he doesn't realize that the D1 baseball scholarships are pretty different than the football. The "D1" brand is extremely powerful to some people, sadly. His son doesn't have talent. That is the really sad part.
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Post by s73 on Apr 4, 2019 16:21:00 GMT -6
With all due respect you sound exactly like what you are preaching against.....entitled. Your first example is what if you have a STUD WR & a coach who chucks the ball 40 times & then you change to a SW. Well, let me ask you this: Let's say you have stud WR & coach who chucks the ball 40X & the coach stays but decides to run the ball a TON the following year b/c his QB graduated & the next kid up has silly string for an arm? Or just doesn't make great decisions w/ the ball? I'm guessing, again w/ all due respect, that you are on the upside of things right now as a program so your thoughts are, why shouldn't kids get to transfer here b/c we're awesome! But if you were on the other side, and kids were leaving you'd feel different. Furthermore, what you're preaching is, if you don't like the way things are going, just leave. Is that what you're going to tell your players when they marry? What your wife gained a little baby weight after your 3rd child was born? You didn't sign up for that? Meh, trade her in for a younger model. Thank God our military doesn't subscribe to your mentality, or we'd all be speaking German. Sometimes things aren't what we always want, but it's awfully hard to fix them by "outworking the other guy" when your program is a revolving door. Maybe a coach retires and a new guy comes in, should everybody leave immediately & not even give him a chance b/c it might be hard? Can't coach ghosts. I suspect however, no matter what is said you will not change your mind. The only thing that will change it is life experience. JMO. So a lot of assumptions here coach...guess you missed the part where I said...I don't know if I am for or against the idea. As for my program, nope not on upside at all, in fact moved from a very good program to one that went 1-8 the year before (I don't live in the district, I don't get paid and my kid plays in another district). I didn't preach anything, I simply provided the other side of the argument. Here are the facts gentlemen, Parents are voters, parents can influence and if the only argument against letting parents do whatever they want and transfer kids all over is "its bad for the coach". Well guess what, nobody gives a flying frog's butt about you...so this little experiment was to see how you will argue either for or against it, as it is coming and will be coming your way...if it hasn't already. So you better be able to argue your point from logic and not cause your butt hurt you may loose your job. Parents vote.... There are extremes to everything and yes you could have kids move because of being butt hurt. As for the military comment....There is an EGA hanging on my wall... The part that I did not miss is the part where you said "change my mind, prove me wrong". Also, you are making MANY assumptions my friend. 1. Why is winning the ONLY thing that makes a program good for kids? I have been to the play offs 3X in a rom 5 / 8 years and have a couple of nice play off runs under my belt & I do not believe this. 2. Parents vote and.....parents pay taxes. Why should some kid get to go to another program down the road when all the people who LIVE their are paying taxes and the kids family is NOT paying taxes in that community? 3. What about the kids who would LOVE to go to the "great program" down the road but can't afford to transport their kid b/c its' out of disctirct? So....they get stuck behind while kids w/ advantage get yet another leg up? 4. You are looking through the most narrow of scopes as if a year or 2 of HS football should be a major consideration concerning a kids schooling. 95% of kids will not receive anything other than typical financial aid that they would probably qualify for anyways b/c of football. But.....we should allow kids a choice to go where they want, not knowing if they will fit in socially, academically, b/c they want a chance to win more games which isn't even a guarantee but based on the perception of a previous season or 2? I think that's a really immature way to view things. JMO. 5. Would you think this is a good idea if "Johnny Pinhead", non athlete who has been busted for drugs, has a disorderly conduct record for throwing a desk across the room b/c a teacher asked for his phone (true story fro me) and has been busted for lewd acts b/c he thought it was "funny" to stick his junk in some freshman's face while changing in the locker room (true again) was placed in you classroom b/c "that other school doesn't understand our child and is targeting him" (true story everywhere)? Are you willing to open that box b/c if kids can go wherever they want due to athletics, then so should anybody else. 6. What coaches are butt hurt by this? I'm not hearing of any. I don't really know where this is an issue. The only issue I have seen related to any of this is where private schools w/ no "real" boundaries keep siphoning kids around our state to the point that they become almost impossible to compete w/ in the state level series. And even then the only "butt hurting" I hear is when the those coaches who have 11 D1 kids on their roster come off as arrogant, like it's all them and not the boat load of talent they have been gifted with. That's about the only time it's an issue. 7. Lastly, kids have age restrictions on voting, driving, alcohol etc, b/c life experience is the best teacher & they are not always able to make good responsible decisions at a young age. Hence, some kid thinks he wants to go to school A, but once he gets there he decides he made a big mistake. So.....then at semester he ants to come back. Or....he wants to play FB at school A, BB at school B and run track at school C. What kind of a cluster would that be? How would any of be able to build any consistency w/ a revolving door of students on an annual basis? Not trying to be a d!ck. really I'm not. But to hear this kind of nonsense to me sounds like another voice championing the "it's all about me cause". I think loyalty to a coach who has coached his a$$ for a kid should matter. I think teammates who have sacrificed beside that same kid should matter & I think communities who have supported that kid, sometimes all way from Pop Warner up, should matter. Relationships should matter. JMO.
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Post by huthuthut on Apr 13, 2019 6:22:54 GMT -6
This is all a result of select/travel ball mentality. I choose my team and we choose our coach and we keep our numbers down so everyone plays. Because parents hate to give up their time to attend a game where little Johnny sits the bench and have to listen to the gloating parents whose kids are playing. And they’ll transfer a kid to a better athletic / worse academic school in a heartbeat so he’ll have a better chance to get a scholarship that he’s now academically unprepared for but doesn’t really need because he’s going pro anyway.
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