|
Post by tigerpride on Mar 6, 2019 8:19:14 GMT -6
Does anyone want to coach anymore?
I need 2, maybe 3 coaches right now on a 10 man staff. I have money to pay the coaches. I have kids that are ready to be coached, too. Been searching since December and have had about 4 inquiries.
Have advertised on our association websites and distribution email lists. Cannot find anyone.
Have had a solid core of about 6 guys for the last 7 years - but always seem to have a guy or two head elsewhere, especially when I cannot get them a teaching job within the district.
I notice I am not the only one - as many of my surrounding programs have similar postings out.
Just wondering if this is the trend?
|
|
humble
Sophomore Member
Posts: 204
|
Post by humble on Mar 6, 2019 8:53:22 GMT -6
It's the same way down here in Louisiana.
|
|
|
Post by MICoach on Mar 6, 2019 9:41:21 GMT -6
The jobs in district thing seems to come up a lot in West Michigan. Schools are either all in on having coaches in the building or it is not a priority whatsoever.
|
|
|
Post by planck on Mar 6, 2019 9:49:51 GMT -6
The problem is that coaching is a huge time commitment, it doesn't pay especially well, and if you're not in the classroom scheduling is a problem. Since the pay for teachers is so poor, it's becoming harder and harder to actually find qualified people.
So, you know, vote out the bums and stop cutting taxes so we can fund education?
|
|
|
Post by planck on Mar 6, 2019 9:55:24 GMT -6
Sorry, I was a teacher as a second career, and the pay was something like 25% LESS than I made right out college as an engineer with no experience. After moving up the ladder with a master's, I still made less as a teacher than I did right out college. When I left teaching, I immediately got a 50% raise to do work that's far less important and demanding than teaching.
Priorities, man. If you want people, you have to pay them.
|
|
|
Post by coachcb on Mar 6, 2019 9:57:31 GMT -6
We've been seeing this for years and, IMO, it's due to two reasons:
1. Many teachers coming into the field aren't willing to coach (or take on anything outside of contract hours..). This hurts programs because teachers are the folks with the optimal schedule for coaching. Having been an AD, I can tell you it can be pulling teeth to get teachers to participate in any extracurricular activities anymore. I'd have to beg teachers to take on coaching or extracurricular duties.
2. Teachers aren't willing to coach and people outside of the profession just don't have a schedule that is conducive to coaching. We had two coaches who weren't teachers on staff last year and those poor SOBs were burning the candle at both ends. One didn't get a an actual day off during the season until late October. He'd work Saturdays and Sundays to make up for the time he was missing for practice and games. Great guy and coach though; he never missed a practice and broke down film every weekend.
|
|
|
Post by bluboy on Mar 6, 2019 10:33:26 GMT -6
In my area, twenty-somethings don't want to build character. All they want to build is bank accounts and reputations. Many young men would rather work long hours at high paying jobs, rather than work with young people. Those who are in education are busy working on graduate degrees so they can become administrators(where they can earn more than a teacher). Now compound this by the fact that in most districts there are a thousand hoops of fire that adjuncts have to jump through in order to coach, not to mention the time-related conflicts of a job in the real world. Another issue in my area is that principals don't view good coaches as good teachers. So instead of hiring QUALIFIED candidates who can coach, they hire these eggheads who not only can't teach a fish to swim, but do nothing to enhance the school. It really p!sses me off when the principal brags about Mr. XYZ being such a great teacher when Mr. XYZ knows nothing about his students, let alone the one who is a football player who lives out of his car. I apologize for the rant, but I am a teacher and a coach and darn proud of it. I would not trade it for anything. IMHO, being called"Coach" is still an honor.
|
|
|
Post by coachcb on Mar 6, 2019 11:16:47 GMT -6
In my area, twenty-somethings don't want to build character. All they want to build is bank accounts and reputations. Many young men would rather work long hours at high paying jobs, rather than work with young people. Those who are in education are busy working on graduate degrees so they can become administrators(where they can earn more than a teacher). Now compound this by the fact that in most districts there are a thousand hoops of fire that adjuncts have to jump through in order to coach, not to mention the time-related conflicts of a job in the real world. Another issue in my area is that principals don't view good coaches as good teachers. So instead of hiring QUALIFIED candidates who can coach, they hire these eggheads who not only can't teach a fish to swim, but do nothing to enhance the school. It really p!sses me off when the principal brags about Mr. XYZ being such a great teacher when Mr. XYZ knows nothing about his students, let alone the one who is a football player who lives out of his car. I apologize for the rant, but I am a teacher and a coach and darn proud of it. I would not trade it for anything. IMHO, being called"Coach" is still an honor. We're seeing a different trend around here; administrations are actively seeking out teachers who have coaching experience and are willing to do so. When I started teaching, my coaching experience was rarely taken into consideration in the interview and hiring process. Now, my coaching resume is landing me interviews and job offers as schools just can't find coaches. But, I do know the frustration. When I was a union president, I had the school board all over me about teachers not being involved in anything outside of contract hours. In turn, I was after our teachers to become more involved. Teachers just don't get it now; being involved with the kids in extracurricular activities makes life much easier in the classroom. The kids see that you're involved, they know you give a chit, they work harder and they behave better. And, it makes my dealings with parents more proactive as well. If their kid is getting in trouble, I'm not just the nameless math teacher being a dictator. I'm Mr. Coachcb; the guy that teaches math, coaches their kid in football and track, runs the weight room, etc..etc..
|
|
|
Post by ogre5530 on Mar 6, 2019 11:21:32 GMT -6
Poor pay for coaches in most states is a real detriment. A lot of time put in for little pay. The wife is never on board with that lol
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Mar 6, 2019 11:35:40 GMT -6
Is this just further indication that school based athletics for ages 13-19 may soon be replaced entirely with club models?
|
|
|
Post by wolverine55 on Mar 6, 2019 11:36:25 GMT -6
We can almost always find someone for our assistant coaching openings, but it's always someONE. Most of our openings only have one applicant or we have to seek someone out to fill it. I coach freshmen basketball for an extra $2500 and got the job because I was literally the only one to even inquire about it when our head basketball coach posted it.
|
|
|
Post by gccwolverine on Mar 6, 2019 12:23:41 GMT -6
Districts should tie them together. This teaching position is tied to these coaching positions so on and so forth. I am aware this can't be done with all spots but this would at least alleviate the issues. And I'm aware that some districts have absolutely zero interest in doing so. That's probably why they are places people want to work too.
|
|
|
Post by realdawg on Mar 6, 2019 12:43:23 GMT -6
As mentioned. Coaching is a lot of time for relatively little money. Young people don’t want to do that. And many wives will not allow their husbands to do so. Those that have wives that allow us to are very lucky.
Second. And this is just my opinion. I think administrators hide behind the we gotta have good classroom teachers bull crap. Teaching is coaching and coaching is teaching. Good coaches usually make good teachers. But they aren’t always flashy. They teach through repitition. Which isn’t the cool thing anymore. So they hire the flashy 8-3 teacher instead of the solid coach/teacher. Bc if test scores come back bad they can fall back on well we hired the best available. Just not some old coach.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Mar 6, 2019 12:51:11 GMT -6
Districts should tie them together. This teaching position is tied to these coaching positions so on and so forth. I am aware this can't be done with all spots but this would at least alleviate the issues. And I'm aware that some districts have absolutely zero interest in doing so. That's probably why they are places people want to work too. How would one be evaluated with regards to job security? Who has the power to hire/fire? Does Jefferson High lose its best chemistry teacher because the HC ran up the score on an opponent, and an assistant coach/chem teacher called him out on it, resulting in being fired? Is a coach whose wife just had twins forced to choose between losing his teaching job because he wants to take a season off, or not helping out at home in a manner that he and his family decides is best for them? Just too many issues in my opinion to make that a broadbased policy.
|
|
|
Post by newt21 on Mar 6, 2019 12:54:00 GMT -6
I will say that administration has a direct impact on coaching also. I, for one, will not be coaching at my school next year due to our administration; and there are many reasons behind this decision, none of which are because I don't want to coach.
|
|
|
Post by Defcord on Mar 6, 2019 13:41:11 GMT -6
As mentioned. Coaching is a lot of time for relatively little money. Young people don’t want to do that. And many wives will not allow their husbands to do so. Those that have wives that allow us to are very lucky. Second. And this is just my opinion. I think administrators hide behind the we gotta have good classroom teachers bull crap. Teaching is coaching and coaching is teaching. Good coaches usually make good teachers. But they aren’t always flashy. They teach through repitition. Which isn’t the cool thing anymore. So they hire the flashy 8-3 teacher instead of the solid coach/teacher. Bc if test scores come back bad they can fall back on well we hired the best available. Just not some old coach. I agree with this. I often remind kids "repetition is the mother of learning." I try to use extracurricular analogies linked to their interests. You don't stop practicing a scale in music after the first time you play it right. You don't stop shooting free throws after you make your first one. I don't know why people think repetition is a bad thing in class. My kids love my class but we do a lot of review stuff. Sometimes a kid will say "Coach this is busy work." "You are right, busy learning." I don't know if some of the flashy admin I have worked with would love the repetition but the best ones have recognized that my kids are learning so they let me be.
|
|
|
Post by Defcord on Mar 6, 2019 13:45:38 GMT -6
One issue that has been brought up many time on this board is there are so many more demands. I saw a post on footballscoop or somewhere the other day that was looking for coaches. It said "coaches must be willing to attend 100% of offseason events." That's non-sense.
|
|
|
Post by Coach Vint on Mar 6, 2019 14:02:59 GMT -6
In Texas most of us are on dual contracts. Our teaching and coaching positions are tied together. If we get fired or non-renewed from one we get fired or non-renewed from the other. If you are not a good classroom teacher you are probably not a good coach. You will be let go from both. If you are a poor coach and a great teacher, you will be let go from both and have to reapply for your teaching position, if there is an opening.
|
|
|
Post by somecoach on Mar 6, 2019 20:13:26 GMT -6
If you are desperate for "a set of hands" maybe try to get recent grads/parents.
Issue with recent grads is maturity, but if you pick the right kid and give them minimal responsibility its better than nobody.
Parents are a catch/22 based on the "daddy ball" theory... but again, pick the right personality and set the record straight regarding being objective when coaching the players.
|
|
|
Post by 44dlcoach on Mar 6, 2019 21:29:04 GMT -6
We've built and restocked our coaching staff for 15 years using former players.
We require that they be at least 2 years removed from the program, and they start at the lower levels. We actively look for a couple kids in each class while they are still in HS that we think will coach one day.
It's great because as guys graduate college, start jobs that don't let them coach, start families etc. we have a group ready to step in. For example our freshman HC has been around for 30 years, he helps guide the rest of the staff, all of them are under 22 years old.
|
|
|
Post by coachscdub on Mar 7, 2019 0:14:01 GMT -6
If anyone on here is in the Long Beach area and needs a coach, i am looking for a new school, as i have just moved down here.
Sorry to self promote, but hey if anyone on here needs help and i can help then great.
|
|
|
Post by badtotheflexbone on Mar 7, 2019 2:24:25 GMT -6
Funny, I was just thinking about posting a thread debating whether it's time to hang it up and I'm fairly young/new but too much bs, not worth the time and effort anymore
|
|
|
Post by gccwolverine on Mar 7, 2019 9:22:06 GMT -6
Districts should tie them together. This teaching position is tied to these coaching positions so on and so forth. I am aware this can't be done with all spots but this would at least alleviate the issues. And I'm aware that some districts have absolutely zero interest in doing so. That's probably why they are places people want to work too. How would one be evaluated with regards to job security? Who has the power to hire/fire? Does Jefferson High lose its best chemistry teacher because the HC ran up the score on an opponent, and an assistant coach/chem teacher called him out on it, resulting in being fired? Is a coach whose wife just had twins forced to choose between losing his teaching job because he wants to take a season off, or not helping out at home in a manner that he and his family decides is best for them? Just too many issues in my opinion to make that a broadbased policy. So a guy should be able to be hired to teach PE and also coach and then 4 years down the road quit coaching or be removed from coaching but not leave the school hamstringing the school by not freeing up a spot for them to go out and hire a teacher to get in the building who coaches? If this happens 5-6-7 times in a small school the school all of a sudden has zero on campus spots available. Hurting the kids more than anything. When Dave the accountants wife has twins no one is at the office talking about how Dave should do less during tax season because you know life happened. Do your job and balance life. Dave the accountant shouldn't be able to do less and keep the job he was hired to do. If he wants to do less he should apply for a a position which will result in him doing less.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Mar 7, 2019 9:29:53 GMT -6
How would one be evaluated with regards to job security? Who has the power to hire/fire? Does Jefferson High lose its best chemistry teacher because the HC ran up the score on an opponent, and an assistant coach/chem teacher called him out on it, resulting in being fired? Is a coach whose wife just had twins forced to choose between losing his teaching job because he wants to take a season off, or not helping out at home in a manner that he and his family decides is best for them? Just too many issues in my opinion to make that a broadbased policy. So a guy should be able to be hired to teach PE and also coach and then 4 years down the road quit coaching or be removed from coaching but not leave the school hamstringing the school by not freeing up a spot for them to go out and hire a teacher to get in the building who coaches? If this happens 5-6-7 times in a small school the school all of a sudden has zero on campus spots available. Hurting the kids more than anything. When Dave the accountants wife has twins no one is at the office talking about how Dave should do less during tax season because you know life happened. Do your job and balance life. Dave the accountant shouldn't be able to do less and keep the job he was hired to do. If he wants to do less he should apply for a a position which will result in him doing less. I could understand an argument being made for PE teachers, which carry in generally a much easier work load overall (regarding assessments, planning etc) than a core subject teacher. I have seen that model in private schools, where each teacher had individual contracts. However, not all coaches are PE teachers and when dealing with public schools, contracts are not individualized. Regarding the accountant analogy, Dave is being compensated for that. If you want to go down the road saying that some teaching positions (rememmber, not all coaches are PE teachers) now come with the responsibility of coaching, which brings with it a compensation of well below minimum wage per hour of work....
|
|
|
Post by Defcord on Mar 7, 2019 9:59:54 GMT -6
So a guy should be able to be hired to teach PE and also coach and then 4 years down the road quit coaching or be removed from coaching but not leave the school hamstringing the school by not freeing up a spot for them to go out and hire a teacher to get in the building who coaches? If this happens 5-6-7 times in a small school the school all of a sudden has zero on campus spots available. Hurting the kids more than anything. When Dave the accountants wife has twins no one is at the office talking about how Dave should do less during tax season because you know life happened. Do your job and balance life. Dave the accountant shouldn't be able to do less and keep the job he was hired to do. If he wants to do less he should apply for a a position which will result in him doing less. I could understand an argument being made for PE teachers, which carry in generally a much easier work load overall (regarding assessments, planning etc) than a core subject teacher. I have seen that model in private schools, where each teacher had individual contracts. However, not all coaches are PE teachers and when dealing with public schools, contracts are not individualized. Regarding the accountant analogy, Dave is being compensated for that. If you want to go down the road saying that some teaching positions (rememmber, not all coaches are PE teachers) now come with the responsibility of coaching, which brings with it a compensation of well below minimum wage per hour of work.... I think compensation is a key point in linking the two responsibilities together. If a school expects a coach to stay on forever as a coach and coaching is part of his full time job then he should be compensated accordingly.
|
|
JoshC
Freshmen Member
Posts: 68
|
Post by JoshC on Mar 7, 2019 10:40:46 GMT -6
This whole hiring teachers thing is making it hard for me to stay at my current coaching job. Admin at my coaching job has been talking for 3 years now about bringing me on as a teacher, and for the 3rd year now, it's looking like I won't be brought on.
I am currently teaching in a position that puts me in a bad mood on almost a daily basis and I'm looking for a change, especially because I'll be coming home to a wife next school year. Might have the potential to change schools in a new district, but then coaching at my current school would be difficult because of the drive / time school lets out.
It's stressful because we are in year 3 of a rebuild and I really don't want to leave, but the (future) wife and my 7-3 job has to take priority over the 3-6 coaching. If the school I coached at would be willing to get me in the door for an interview (Admin can't seem to get the Department Chair to interview coaches) I feel like I would be able to land a job and life would be great. But it's hard holding on to a crappy job just to be able to coach a few months out of the year.
I'm lucky that my future wife supports the idea of me having a long coaching career, but she won't support me too long if I'm coming home bitter about my job.
|
|
|
Post by hunhdisciple on Mar 7, 2019 10:51:08 GMT -6
I mean, if you pay me enough to relocate, I'll move myself and my family anywhere.
But at the core, it's a lot of work for not a lot of pay. And quite often, the end result isn't always worth it. Giving everything you have to stubborn turds who win 3 games is pretty trying.
Once a lot of guys realize it isn't like what you see in a movie, where you just get to yell and have a whistle, and on Friday night you get to draw something up in the dirt to win, and it all plays out in slo-mo, they're going to get out of the game.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Mar 7, 2019 10:52:44 GMT -6
This whole hiring teachers thing is making it hard for me to stay at my current coaching job. Admin at my coaching job has been talking for 3 years now about bringing me on as a teacher, and for the 3rd year now, it's looking like I won't be brought on. I am currently teaching in a position that puts me in a bad mood on almost a daily basis and I'm looking for a change, especially because I'll be coming home to a wife next school year. Might have the potential to change schools in a new district, but then coaching at my current school would be difficult because of the drive / time school lets out. It's stressful because we are in year 3 of a rebuild and I really don't want to leave, but the (future) wife and my 7-3 job has to take priority over the 3-6 coaching. If the school I coached at would be willing to get me in the door for an interview (Admin can't seem to get the Department Chair to interview coaches) I feel like I would be able to land a job and life would be great. But it's hard holding on to a crappy job just to be able to coach a few months out of the year. I'm lucky that my future wife supports the idea of me having a long coaching career, but she won't support me too long if I'm coming home bitter about my job. Why aren't you coaching at the school for which you currently teach? I completely understand your situation. Not all spots are equal. I often tell people that while teaching may be a widespread profession, that does not mean there are many "good" jobs available. I just asked the above question to highlight the irony that someone in your position may be preventing another coach from getting a job at your current teaching school.
|
|
|
Post by coachcb on Mar 7, 2019 11:15:28 GMT -6
Is this just further indication that school based athletics for ages 13-19 may soon be replaced entirely with club models? I would "yes" if club sports in this country would get their chit together.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Mar 7, 2019 11:28:30 GMT -6
Is this just further indication that school based athletics for ages 13-19 may soon be replaced entirely with club models? I would "yes" if club sports in this country would get their chit together. Soon might be the word making my statement incorrect. However, we seem to have many threads discussing "shortage of coaches" and yet club sports seem to show there are people out there that want to coach...
|
|