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Post by airraidallday on Mar 4, 2019 10:41:36 GMT -6
For those of you who have to deal with this, especially us in Florida where its the wild west, how do you keep kids loyal to your program? How do you respond to kids telling you that they have other coaches talking to them? I've had 3 kids come in today telling me they are being recruited and one that just withdrew to go to our cross town rival.
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colt1
Freshmen Member
Posts: 19
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Post by colt1 on Mar 4, 2019 10:48:53 GMT -6
If recruit is something that your school board policies then the ones that have told you that if they are willing to write statements at the consent of their parents then you go that route have the school brought up for it.
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Post by airraidallday on Mar 4, 2019 11:14:58 GMT -6
If recruit is something that your school board policies then the ones that have told you that if they are willing to write statements at the consent of their parents then you go that route have the school brought up for it. I wish this would make a difference
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Post by realdawg on Mar 4, 2019 11:53:23 GMT -6
I hate it has come to this. But you have to win and you have to make your place the cool place to be. How you do this exactly I don’t know. Twitter, 7 on 7s. Promo videos. Cool gear and stuff I guess.
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klaby
Junior Member
Posts: 389
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Post by klaby on Mar 4, 2019 12:22:11 GMT -6
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Post by fkaboneyard on Mar 4, 2019 12:30:28 GMT -6
In California the CIF has said, "Have at it, boys." There is nothing you can do except coach the kids you have in your program. Kids are not going to go on record to rat out a school that is courting them. What is the upside for the student? I've been at a couple schools where we had kids get poached. It's extremely frustrating and there is no relief.
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Post by carookie on Mar 4, 2019 12:55:32 GMT -6
Constantly explain to players and parents how no HS coach is gonna 'get a kid a scholarship' (by which I mean colleges scholarship), and that any coach who tries to sell kids and parents on this is most likely a con-man who is actually just riding kids coattails to success.
Be very polite, non specific, and diplomatic when doing this (not trying to attack anyone directly) but explain it plainly. A lot of these kids are being sold on lies that so-and-so coach has a connection with college coaches and can get them scholarships. Though he may have a connection, no college coach is gonna risk his job to appease his buddy the HS coach.
Everyone has HUDL, everyone can go to camps. If you are good enough they will find you.
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Post by rosey65 on Mar 4, 2019 12:59:03 GMT -6
For those of you who have to deal with this, especially us in Florida where its the wild west, how do you keep kids loyal to your program? How do you respond to kids telling you that they have other coaches talking to them? I've had 3 kids come in today telling me they are being recruited and one that just withdrew to go to our cross town rival. F**K em..... coach the ones that want to be there. It was bad in FL before these changes, especially where we are with a ton of private schools, and I expect it to look worse these next few years. A lot of the kids who transfer are doing it at the request or demand of their parents. There's nothing we can do to or for the kids to make them want to stay. All we can do is coach as hard as we can so we can beat these kids when we face them in the fall. Funny story... a few years back, DB transferred his Sr year. We play his new team at our home. His dad, sporting the new colors, is carrying a tray of food into the locker room for pre-game. The dad was in our booster club, but didn't do s##t, just liked to look important. Anyway, our booster prez sees him carrying food in to the new locker room, and DOOOOOGGGGG cusses him out all the way across the tennis courts leading to locker room. "Lazy @$$ didnt do s##t for 3 years, NOW you wanna help some backward BS programs thats about to lose by 30..........." Eh....maybe it's not so funny on here, but it was pretty funny to see it happen...
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Post by coachd5085 on Mar 4, 2019 14:38:55 GMT -6
For those of you who have to deal with this, especially us in Florida where its the wild west, how do you keep kids loyal to your program? How do you respond to kids telling you that they have other coaches talking to them? I've had 3 kids come in today telling me they are being recruited and one that just withdrew to go to our cross town rival. Why are they looking to leave?
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Post by hsrose on Mar 4, 2019 15:13:41 GMT -6
I've got the opposite problem. One of my soph kids was leaving for our rival school, they're better in most sports. Story is he & mom were tired of losing here and wanted to win so he was leaving. Kept waiting for the news that he was gone, but never saw him leave. Asked other coaches and one said that he was friends with the dad. Dad said that they had met with the other school but that 'the meeting did not go well' so he wasn't given the opportunity to leave.
So, at least here, the other schools don't want our kids.
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Post by KYCoach2331 on Mar 4, 2019 15:47:36 GMT -6
Make your program something that kids want to be a part of. What's happening might be wrong but for now, you can't do anything about it, so coach the kids you have and make your program something they want to be a part of.
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Post by Defcord on Mar 4, 2019 16:21:39 GMT -6
I think the biggest thing is make your program something they want to be part of. Build solid relationships, work hard and have some fun. In some areas it’s part of the game. You are going to lose a few...kids are immature and parents are irrational. But I think it’s possiblr to build and keep a core group if you are running first class program and staying focused on that.
Guys have been recruiting your wives and girl friends forever how do you keep them around?
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Post by fkaboneyard on Mar 5, 2019 7:30:46 GMT -6
I think the biggest thing is make your program something they want to be part of. Build solid relationships, work hard and have some fun. In some areas it’s part of the game. You are going to lose a few...kids are immature and parents are irrational. But I think it’s possiblr to build and keep a core group if you are running first class program and staying focused on that. Guys have been recruiting your wives and girl friends forever how do you keep them around?
I do something to her that would get me thrown in jail if I did it to a kid.
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Post by rosey65 on Mar 5, 2019 7:38:12 GMT -6
For those of you who have to deal with this, especially us in Florida where its the wild west, how do you keep kids loyal to your program? How do you respond to kids telling you that they have other coaches talking to them? I've had 3 kids come in today telling me they are being recruited and one that just withdrew to go to our cross town rival. Why are they looking to leave? They get attention if they transfer. They feel more "wanted" that way. They see it happening on TV, so they think thats what they should be doing, too. The other team runs a better offense. Their kid will be utilized more. Grass is greener, blah blah blah We've had a few kids leave for their junior year, they ALL came back for their senior year.
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Post by doubletight305 on Mar 5, 2019 7:44:17 GMT -6
For those of you who have to deal with this, especially us in Florida where its the wild west, how do you keep kids loyal to your program? How do you respond to kids telling you that they have other coaches talking to them? I've had 3 kids come in today telling me they are being recruited and one that just withdrew to go to our cross town rival. Coach, i'm in Miami-Dade County....the epicenter of the wild, wild west. What we figured out is that if we invest our time in our freshmen class and show kids, parents and the community that we are improving our program and trying to help them get to college that we have a very low transfer-out rate. We've only lost 1 kid from last years team to another school, and he was actually kicked out of his magnet program (academic reasons) and sent back to his home school. It also helps that our school is probably one of the top academic public schools in the county and we are in a very nice suburban area. What keeps kids at our school is not just the athletics; its the school as a whole. I know that may be tough to improve as just a football coach but try to control what you can control (nice weight room, program exposure, uniforms etc.) And its tough explaining to people how it is in Florida, especially in urban areas. Principals, administrators and athletic directors EXPECT and ENCOURAGE you to steal kids. In fact I know of coaches that have lost their job because the didn't "steal" enough talent from the surrounding schools. Its really sad, its all about the "microwave' teams out here. Pop the talent in the microwave, out comes the championship team. No one knows how to build a program from the ground up anymore.
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Post by rsmith627 on Mar 5, 2019 7:49:46 GMT -6
Are you tweeting enough about grind season?
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Post by rosey65 on Mar 5, 2019 7:56:48 GMT -6
For those of you who have to deal with this, especially us in Florida where its the wild west, how do you keep kids loyal to your program? How do you respond to kids telling you that they have other coaches talking to them? I've had 3 kids come in today telling me they are being recruited and one that just withdrew to go to our cross town rival. Coach, i'm in Miami-Dade County....the epicenter of the wild, wild west. What we figured out is that if we invest our time in our freshmen class and show kids, parents and the community that we are improving our program and trying to help them get to college that we have a very low transfer-out rate. We've only lost 1 kid from last years team to another school, and he was actually kicked out of his magnet program (academic reasons) and sent back to his home school. It also helps that our school is probably one of the top academic public schools in the county and we are in a very nice suburban area. What keeps kids at our school is not just the athletics; its the school as a whole. I know that may be tough to improve as just a football coach but try to control what you can control (nice weight room, program exposure, uniforms etc.) And its tough explaining to people how it is in Florida, especially in urban areas. Principals, administrators and athletic directors EXPECT and ENCOURAGE you to steal kids. In fact I know of coaches that have lost their job because the didn't "steal" enough talent from the surrounding schools. Its really sad, its all about the "microwave' teams out here. Pop the talent in the microwave, out comes the championship team. No one knows how to build a program from the ground up anymore. Add in the fact that rarely is there punishment for being caught. Armwood (Tampa) beat some Miami team for the state championship a few years back while both teams were under investigation. By February, both teams had all wins erased for blatant recruiting. Miami's QB was dropped off at a hotel in the school zone and was picked up by a teacher every morning. There was no state champion that year. Armwood was even worse. They had 3 or 4 top-tier kids from all over Tampa play their senior year for Armwood. An OL from Orlando (an hour away) was on the team. The parents not only bought a condo in the school zone, but they legally separated to try and prove the kid was eligible to play. During the course of the investigation, the FHSAA found 9 (NINE!) other kids on the team who were not supposed to be here. Nothing happened to the coach. In fact, the superintendent literally stood by his side as he issued an apology. That, at least in part, is a crux of the problem. There is no punishment for being caught. Oh sure, they say you can get in trouble, but I know Armwood still got Championship rings for that year. The state records wont show a win, but thats just semantics. THAT'S why you cant control it. I'm not going to work that hard for a high school team or my $1600 stipend. I coach who comes out, I recruit the hallways, and I make my kids the best I can.
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Post by doubletight305 on Mar 5, 2019 8:03:45 GMT -6
Coach, i'm in Miami-Dade County....the epicenter of the wild, wild west. What we figured out is that if we invest our time in our freshmen class and show kids, parents and the community that we are improving our program and trying to help them get to college that we have a very low transfer-out rate. We've only lost 1 kid from last years team to another school, and he was actually kicked out of his magnet program (academic reasons) and sent back to his home school. It also helps that our school is probably one of the top academic public schools in the county and we are in a very nice suburban area. What keeps kids at our school is not just the athletics; its the school as a whole. I know that may be tough to improve as just a football coach but try to control what you can control (nice weight room, program exposure, uniforms etc.) And its tough explaining to people how it is in Florida, especially in urban areas. Principals, administrators and athletic directors EXPECT and ENCOURAGE you to steal kids. In fact I know of coaches that have lost their job because the didn't "steal" enough talent from the surrounding schools. Its really sad, its all about the "microwave' teams out here. Pop the talent in the microwave, out comes the championship team. No one knows how to build a program from the ground up anymore. Add in the fact that rarely is there punishment for being caught. Armwood (Tampa) beat some Miami team for the state championship a few years back while both teams were under investigation. By February, both teams had all wins erased for blatant recruiting. Miami's QB was dropped off at a hotel in the school zone and was picked up by a teacher every morning. There was no state champion that year. Armwood was even worse. They had 3 or 4 top-tier kids from all over Tampa play their senior year for Armwood. An OL from Orlando (an hour away) was on the team. The parents not only bought a condo in the school zone, but they legally separated to try and prove the kid was eligible to play. During the course of the investigation, the FHSAA found 9 (NINE!) other kids on the team who were not supposed to be here. Nothing happened to the coach. In fact, the superintendent literally stood by his side as he issued an apology. That, at least in part, is a crux of the problem. There is no punishment for being caught. Oh sure, they say you can get in trouble, but I know Armwood still got Championship rings for that year. The state records wont show a win, but thats just semantics. THAT'S why you cant control it. I'm not going to work that hard for a high school team or my $1600 stipend. I coach who comes out, I recruit the hallways, and I make my kids the best I can. Coach, that absolutely happens every year, almost everywhere in South Florida. 12 public schools (including mine) in dade county all from the large classifications (8A,7A,6A) have decided to go independent and form our own league and championship. We targeted schools that we know do things the old-style way. Now all of those schools (public, private and charter) that for years stole kids from us in front of our faces are having trouble filling out their schedule.
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Post by Defcord on Mar 5, 2019 8:21:45 GMT -6
I think the biggest thing is make your program something they want to be part of. Build solid relationships, work hard and have some fun. In some areas it’s part of the game. You are going to lose a few...kids are immature and parents are irrational. But I think it’s possiblr to build and keep a core group if you are running first class program and staying focused on that. Guys have been recruiting your wives and girl friends forever how do you keep them around?
I do something to her that would get me thrown in jail if I did it to a kid.
Ha!
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Post by coachd5085 on Mar 5, 2019 8:24:29 GMT -6
Add in the fact that rarely is there punishment for being caught. Armwood (Tampa) beat some Miami team for the state championship a few years back while both teams were under investigation. By February, both teams had all wins erased for blatant recruiting. Miami's QB was dropped off at a hotel in the school zone and was picked up by a teacher every morning. There was no state champion that year. Armwood was even worse. They had 3 or 4 top-tier kids from all over Tampa play their senior year for Armwood. An OL from Orlando (an hour away) was on the team. The parents not only bought a condo in the school zone, but they legally separated to try and prove the kid was eligible to play. During the course of the investigation, the FHSAA found 9 (NINE!) other kids on the team who were not supposed to be here. Nothing happened to the coach. In fact, the superintendent literally stood by his side as he issued an apology. That, at least in part, is a crux of the problem. There is no punishment for being caught. Oh sure, they say you can get in trouble, but I know Armwood still got Championship rings for that year. The state records wont show a win, but thats just semantics. THAT'S why you cant control it. I'm not going to work that hard for a high school team or my $1600 stipend. I coach who comes out, I recruit the hallways, and I make my kids the best I can. Coach, that absolutely happens every year, almost everywhere in South Florida. 12 public schools (including mine) in dade county all from the large classifications (8A,7A,6A) have decided to go independent and form our own league and championship. We targeted schools that we know do things the old-style way. Now all of those schools (public, private and charter) that for years stole kids from us in front of our faces are having trouble filling out their schedule. I believe this was brought up in another thread, and I think this is a great way to handle it.
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Post by rosey65 on Mar 5, 2019 9:27:18 GMT -6
IF ITS LEGAL IN YOUR AREA, STATE, it's a golden opportunity for you. ESPECIALLY IF YOU WANT TO COACH IN COLLEGE. Spend my nights and weekends coaching the local 7th grade youth team, so I can convince them all to come to my school as freshmen?!? Nah, man, I'm good... Now, some people around here think that is a worthwhile investment and have done it for year, but not this guy
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ccox16
Junior Member
Posts: 343
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Post by ccox16 on Mar 5, 2019 9:32:35 GMT -6
What schools are yall at? I am up in Sanford, FL and for the longest time we had schools in the county recruit our kids. But after being here for a while and showing them we care they are staying. Only have a couple incidents the past couple years and our AD took evidence to their AD and said if it continued then he would go to the FHSAA. Magically it stopped.
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Post by coachd5085 on Mar 5, 2019 9:42:54 GMT -6
IF ITS LEGAL IN YOUR AREA, STATE, it's a golden opportunity for you. ESPECIALLY IF YOU WANT TO COACH IN COLLEGE. I don't believe it is legal (with regards to athletic associations) in very many areas or states...
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Post by rosey65 on Mar 5, 2019 10:19:40 GMT -6
School choice equals free agency in high athletics. yes...kindof. Most federations have rules regarding prior contact by school/team personnel. Regardless of ethics or morals, or the amount of biteless-bark your federation amounts to, do you REALLY want to spend your time recruiting a bunch of pubescents to play high school football? And not really to belittle you, that's an honest question. Some people do: We had a coach of ours get a job at one of the above aforementioned powerhouses. In the back of the coaches office, on the white board, they had a spreadsheet showing all of the top little league players in the county, the times and fields they played on, as well as family contacts to talk with at the games. This guy had spent several years in mid-level college programs, and said this was the most extensive and detailed recruiting system he had ever seen. I, for one, and not going to risk my job and my family's well-being to recruit. Also, it's illegal. Finally, I'd rather spend my weekends and evenings with family or on my boat while getting some kids to over-achieve and potentially reach the playoffs than shmoozing to parents for 11 months only to be beat by 50 two rounds later...
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Post by coachd5085 on Mar 5, 2019 10:23:35 GMT -6
School choice equals free agency in high athletics. Not necessarily. I believe most federations have rules preventing exactly that. Now, they may be difficult to enforce, particularly since the only "witnesses" would be the people benefiting from breaking the rules, and therefore would not admit to it... Regardless, that is why I stated the best way to handle the situation, is simply remove oneself from it. It is HS ball, it just isn't that important.
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Post by fkaboneyard on Mar 5, 2019 11:27:12 GMT -6
Fedderations,athletic associations will not violate state and potentially federal law. But forget for a moment, they can't uphold the rules as is not really do anything about it as is. You should want to teach and work with the best players you can get.
I'm not sure you could pack more ignorance into this thread if you tried. Well done.
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Post by rosey65 on Mar 5, 2019 11:40:23 GMT -6
Fedderations,athletic associations will not violate state and potentially federal law. But forget for a moment, they can't uphold the rules as is not really do anything about it as is. You should want to teach and work with the best players you can get.
Your assumption and interpretation are faulty.
For example in our state a year ago a very high-profile basketball player who transferred to a defending state champion school was ruled ineligible by state association because of undue influence, the transfer was for athletic, not academic, reasons, and done without change of legal residence. It was upheld in court.
In FL, any student is allowed to transfer to any school and be immediately eligible for any extra-curricular activity, provided there is a seat at the school for the student. There are contact rules in place, but they are virtually impossible to uphold. Delving into the world of recruiting for your school is a slippery slope I have no desire to step on.
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Post by rosey65 on Mar 5, 2019 12:38:32 GMT -6
if ITS LAW, That a kid can go to school where he ever likes, your district will get sued and slapped down by the court.
He/she can perhaps go to school wherever he/she likes, but he/she does not have a constitutional right to participate in extracurricular activities.
Two separate issues.
Schools in our state voluntarily join the HS association whose purpose is to enforce competitive and eligibility rules which by their membership they all pledge to abide.
Don't you ever get tired of being right?
I hate saying this, but GFYS is, by the letter of the law, correct. In some states, like FL, kids can move whenever and wherever and be able to play. HOWEVER, there are many laws against prior contact, as well as laws related to paying players and families, as well as providing transportation and potential tuition costs. Yes, we'd all love to coach the best players. The question is, how much of your soul are you willing to sell to bring players that shouldn't be at your school into your school? What laws, ethical, moral, written or otherwise, are you willing to break? How much of your own time and money are you willing to part with for a coaching position? And are you willing to risk a teaching career in order to get a some extra talent on your team? Unless you are willing to delve down that rabbit hole of recruiting, then truly, to answer the OP, there is not a whole lot you can do to keep kids from being recruited.
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Post by coachd5085 on Mar 5, 2019 13:16:47 GMT -6
Fedderations,athletic associations will not violate state and potentially federal law. But forget for a moment, they can't uphold the rules as is not really do anything about it as is. You should want to teach and work with the best players you can get. You are talking about something different than the OP. With mentioning state and potentially federal law, you seem to be talking about first choice (although one never knows with you, as you generally seem to skip every 3rd word in your posts and then are amazed when dozens of coaches tell you that you are incoherent...but I digress). The OP is talking about players choosing one school and then being recruited away to attend another school for athletic purposes. I am unaware of any state or federal law that specifically mandates that athletic associations can not have rules to prevent that. Care to quote any? FLA state law specifically forbids this.
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Post by coachsticks on Mar 5, 2019 18:34:52 GMT -6
In Florida, it is as simple as this: EVERY TEAM (at least in my area) that is worth a bleep does it.
Going to list a few notable South Florida programs:
St. Thomas Chaminade Heritage Plantation Gibbons Miami Central Miami Carol City Miami Northwestern Miami Booker T Washington Columbus Dwyer
Most, if not all, of these schools LIVE off of transfers. Finding players is the name of the game in our state. As sad as it is to say, if you don't find a way to do it, you will be left behind.
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