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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2019 11:44:50 GMT -6
So today the first of the new pro leagues to try to challenge the NFL (or at least ride its coattails) is kicking off at 8pm on CBS. I'm curious what people here think of it. I like some of the coaches--especailly Spurrier as HC of the Orlando team--but the whole thing seems poorly thought out. No kickoffs or PATs. Teams forced to go for "onsides conversions" rather than punt on 4th and long. Inane defensive rules don't allow more than 5 rushers (who all have to start from in the box--no DB blitzes), don't allow double A gap blitzes or more than 4 to a side, and ban press coverage combined with a blitz. It just seems like kind of an insult to the game--an attempt to run a glorified 7 on 7 league with pro players. I'm intrigued to an extent and will probably watch, but I predict what we'll see is a bunch of soft bend-but-don't-break defenses (they have no other choice, really) forcing offenses to dink and dunk their way down the field in a pretty boring, uninspired way. That will actually work against things like the deep passing game, throwing hot, screen game, and draw game. I also predict it'll make the run defense extra stingy, turning all the offenses one-dimensional. Thoughts?
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Post by fantom on Feb 9, 2019 12:07:13 GMT -6
So today the first of the new pro leagues to try to challenge the NFL (or at least ride its coattails) is kicking off at 8pm on CBS. I'm curious what people here think of it. I like some of the coaches--especailly Spurrier as HC of the Orlando team--but the whole thing seems poorly thought out. No kickoffs or PATs. Teams forced to go for "onsides conversions" rather than punt on 4th and long. Inane defensive rules don't allow more than 5 rushers (who all have to start from in the box--no DB blitzes), don't allow double A gap blitzes or more than 4 to a side, and ban press coverage combined with a blitz. It just seems like kind of an insult to the game--an attempt to run a glorified 7 on 7 league with pro players. I'm intrigued to an extent and will probably watch, but I predict what we'll see is a bunch of soft bend-but-don't-break defenses (they have no other choice, really) forcing offenses to dink and dunk their way down the field in a pretty boring, uninspired way. That will actually work against things like the deep passing game, throwing hot, screen game, and draw game. I also predict it'll make the run defense extra stingy, turning all the offenses one-dimensional. Thoughts? I think that there are a couple of inaccuracies here. First. I think that you've confused the rule about onside kicks with a "no punting" rule. Unless I missed something the rule replaces onside kick attempts with a 4th and 12 play after you've scored. I also wouldn't say that they're trying to challenge the NFL. I think it's supposed to be more of a developmental league, a minor league. When you look at it that way the rule changes make sense. The kickoff rules? That's a trial for the NFL, which REALLY wants to get rid of kickoffs. I don't love the blitzing rules but I guess they're thinking that guys would be coming and going. Will I watch? After trying to watch an NBA game last night I'm definitely up for some football.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 9, 2019 12:10:54 GMT -6
So today the first of the new pro leagues to try to challenge the NFL (or at least ride its coattails) is kicking off at 8pm on CBS. I'm curious what people here think of it. I like some of the coaches--especailly Spurrier as HC of the Orlando team--but the whole thing seems poorly thought out. No kickoffs or PATs. Teams forced to go for "onsides conversions" rather than punt on 4th and long. Inane defensive rules don't allow more than 5 rushers (who all have to start from in the box--no DB blitzes), don't allow double A gap blitzes or more than 4 to a side, and ban press coverage combined with a blitz. It just seems like kind of an insult to the game--an attempt to run a glorified 7 on 7 league with pro players. I'm intrigued to an extent and will probably watch, but I predict what we'll see is a bunch of soft bend-but-don't-break defenses (they have no other choice, really) forcing offenses to dink and dunk their way down the field in a pretty boring, uninspired way. That will actually work against things like the deep passing game, throwing hot, screen game, and draw game. I also predict it'll make the run defense extra stingy, turning all the offenses one-dimensional. Thoughts? I have seen different versions of the rule variation. I did not see anything about No punts. The rule I saw about "conversions" was a substitute method to retain possession after a score (ie. onside kick) since there are no kick offs. I saw two different statements about the conversions one. ONe that the team attempting it faced a one down to get 10 yards situation from their own 28. The other was from their own 35. Not sure which is correct. I did not see any mention of a no punt rule. Regarding the defensive restrictions, I think they definitely make sense from Director of player development Hines Ward 's perspective: The items you mentioned probably won't be noticed by most football fans, but strong defensive showings (or weak offensive showings..ehem Superbowl LIE I mean LIII definitely would be. Also, I don't think they are trying to Challenge the NFL at all. I think they are looking to become a development league in some ways. The people involved are NFL people as well as TV people. I am fairly certain they know where they stand. They placed the season to end before the NFL draft to avoid conflict and potentially giving their players an opportunity to be drafted--although I am not 100% sure on the mechanism that would be necessary here as opposed to entering the league as free agents.
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Post by KYCoach2331 on Feb 9, 2019 12:36:04 GMT -6
So today the first of the new pro leagues to try to challenge the NFL (or at least ride its coattails) is kicking off at 8pm on CBS. I'm curious what people here think of it. I like some of the coaches--especailly Spurrier as HC of the Orlando team--but the whole thing seems poorly thought out. No kickoffs or PATs. Teams forced to go for "onsides conversions" rather than punt on 4th and long. Inane defensive rules don't allow more than 5 rushers (who all have to start from in the box--no DB blitzes), don't allow double A gap blitzes or more than 4 to a side, and ban press coverage combined with a blitz. It just seems like kind of an insult to the game--an attempt to run a glorified 7 on 7 league with pro players. I'm intrigued to an extent and will probably watch, but I predict what we'll see is a bunch of soft bend-but-don't-break defenses (they have no other choice, really) forcing offenses to dink and dunk their way down the field in a pretty boring, uninspired way. That will actually work against things like the deep passing game, throwing hot, screen game, and draw game. I also predict it'll make the run defense extra stingy, turning all the offenses one-dimensional. Thoughts? I have seen different versions of the rule variation. I did not see anything about No punts. The rule I saw about "conversions" was a substitute method to retain possession after a score (ie. onside kick) since there are no kick offs. I saw two different statements about the conversions one. ONe that the team attempting it faced a one down to get 10 yards situation from their own 28. The other was from their own 35. Not sure which is correct. I did not see any mention of a no punt rule. Regarding the defensive restrictions, I think they definitely make sense from Director of player development Hines Ward 's perspective: The items you mentioned probably won't be noticed by most football fans, but strong defensive showings (or weak offensive showings..ehem Superbowl LIE I mean LIII definitely would be. Also, I don't think they are trying to Challenge the NFL at all. I think they are looking to become a development league in some ways. The people involved are NFL people as well as TV people. I am fairly certain they know where they stand. They placed the season to end before the NFL draft to avoid conflict and potentially giving their players an opportunity to be drafted--although I am not 100% sure on the mechanism that would be necessary here as opposed to entering the league as free agents. They're also showing stuff on NFL Network. Definitely not trying to challenge the NFL.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2019 13:25:50 GMT -6
“Challenge” was a strong word.
I didn’t mean to imply that punts were completely banned, but I’ve seen references in other places to a rule that forces teams who are trailing to go for an “onside conversion” once the score reaches a certain point or if they are in a specific area of the field. However, I’m not entirely sure what the rule actually is, as the articles conflicted in how they described it.
I do think the defensive rules are going to be counterproductive in some ways, similar to how the NBA’s shortening of the 3 pt line and restricting defenses did to the NBA in the 90s (turning the game into a monotonous series of layups and wild 3 pt attempts—jump shots died out for years).
All the blitz limitations incentivize dropping 8 and playing 4 deep/under coverage to slow offenses dowm, limiting big plays and keeping defenders in better position to play runs and screens, making the offenses a slower paced affair that’s all about short and midrange throws. I could see them tweeking things at mid season if it has the result I think it will.
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Post by jamesskeeler on Feb 9, 2019 13:27:16 GMT -6
I dont think its meant to challenge the NFL, but more of a developmental league. I think thats why the rules are the way they are. Could you imagine trying to get quality looks on certain plays on offense, and your scout team is defense of the week and sending guys from everywhere. Im not caught up on all the rules, nor am I agreeing Im just stating why they made it that way.
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Post by bobgoodman on Feb 9, 2019 13:46:03 GMT -6
So today the first of the new pro leagues to try to challenge the NFL (or at least ride its coattails) is kicking off at 8pm on CBS. I'm curious what people here think of it. I like some of the coaches--especailly Spurrier as HC of the Orlando team--but the whole thing seems poorly thought out. No kickoffs or PATs. Teams forced to go for "onsides conversions" rather than punt on 4th and long. Inane defensive rules don't allow more than 5 rushers (who all have to start from in the box--no DB blitzes), don't allow double A gap blitzes or more than 4 to a side, and ban press coverage combined with a blitz. It just seems like kind of an insult to the game--an attempt to run a glorified 7 on 7 league with pro players. Who wants to watch a controlled scrimmage when there are plenty of spring leagues -- men's & women's -- playing unrestricted football?
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 9, 2019 21:34:00 GMT -6
So today the first of the new pro leagues to try to challenge the NFL (or at least ride its coattails) is kicking off at 8pm on CBS. I'm curious what people here think of it. I like some of the coaches--especailly Spurrier as HC of the Orlando team--but the whole thing seems poorly thought out. No kickoffs or PATs. Teams forced to go for "onsides conversions" rather than punt on 4th and long. Inane defensive rules don't allow more than 5 rushers (who all have to start from in the box--no DB blitzes), don't allow double A gap blitzes or more than 4 to a side, and ban press coverage combined with a blitz. It just seems like kind of an insult to the game--an attempt to run a glorified 7 on 7 league with pro players. Who wants to watch a controlled scrimmage when there are plenty of spring leagues -- men's & women's -- playing unrestricted football? Doesn't seem like a controlled scrimmage to me. Rather just some modifications of a game being played by some pretty talented players in an environment that I really hope succeeds (I have long argued that one of the best things for student athletes is a properly organized developmental / minor league system. While right now the official AAF position is not to take kids out of HS, I am hoping that may change. Bob, I am fairly confident in saying that the spring leagues you refer to would look like absolute crap compared to the quality product being shown here.
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Post by spos21ram on Feb 9, 2019 21:39:56 GMT -6
The defenses look light years ahead of the offenses right now. Who needs blitzes when they're getting sacks every other snap. The lack of quality QB play is this league's down fall though. I dont see it as 7 on 7 or flag football at all. I've seen a few big hits and I've only been watching for 15 minutes.
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Post by spos21ram on Feb 9, 2019 21:43:33 GMT -6
I think the defensive rules are what they are because it doesnt look like these teams have practiced very much. I'm curious to know how many hours these coaches put in.
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Post by 19delta on Feb 9, 2019 21:45:58 GMT -6
Watching the San Antonio-San Diego game. 0 TD passes and 4 INTS.
Oof.
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Post by mattharris75 on Feb 9, 2019 21:53:02 GMT -6
Gilbert has looked pretty good running Spurrier's offense. The pace of the game is good to, things are moving quickly. And everyone being mic'ed up is cool. It's, all in all, better than I expected...
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Post by 53 on Feb 9, 2019 21:55:17 GMT -6
Spurrier should have micd his whole career.
It’s great seeing him back on the sideline.
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Post by spos21ram on Feb 9, 2019 21:56:34 GMT -6
Gilbert has looked pretty good running Spurrier's offense. The pace of the game is good to, things are moving quickly. And everyone being mic'ed up is cool. It's, all in all, better than I expected... I love everyone being mic'd up. I would pay for a channel that aired nfl games at field level with everyone mic'd up and no censorship.
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Post by fantom on Feb 9, 2019 21:56:44 GMT -6
Gilbert has looked pretty good running Spurrier's offense. The pace of the game is good to, things are moving quickly. And everyone being mic'ed up is cool. It's, all in all, better than I expected... I really like hearing the replay ref.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 9, 2019 21:59:10 GMT -6
I think the defensive rules are what they are because it doesnt look like these teams have practiced very much. I'm curious to know how many hours these coaches put in. The contracts for the players are all $250,000 (not guaranteed) with additional bonus incentives. Many coaches are extremely respected guys with NFL pedigree and ties. I am pretty sure this isn't a slapd!ck operation. I agree that lack of QB play could be the downfall. It shows just how hard it is to play NFL style qb.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2019 22:04:34 GMT -6
Well, the product on the field has been pretty well executed by one team: the Orlando Apollos. Didn't get to see the other game, but it looks like an ugly affair based on that stat line posted above.
Looking at how little the teams appear to have practiced (and I'd like to know how much, myself), it looks like an unfettered defense would have just made everyone look completely inept.
I got the sense from Spurrier and the other guys coming out of retirement to coach that they're treating this as more of a part-time gig that they aren't taking as seriously as they once did their college or NFL careers.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2019 22:05:51 GMT -6
Spurrier should have micd his whole career. It’s great seeing him back on the sideline. It is, but how old is that guy now? He looks like he can barely walk on the sidelines anymore. The fact that still doesn't keep him off the sideline just makes him even more awesome.
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Post by fantom on Feb 9, 2019 22:10:39 GMT -6
Well, the product on the field has been pretty well executed by one team: the Orlando Apollos. Didn't get to see the other game, but it looks like an ugly affair based on that stat line posted above. Looking at how little the teams appear to have practiced (and I'd like to know how much, myself), it looks like an unfettered defense would have just made everyone look completely inept. It looks like they started in early January.
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Post by mattharris75 on Feb 9, 2019 22:11:19 GMT -6
Spurrier should have micd his whole career. It’s great seeing him back on the sideline. It is, but how old is that guy now? He looks like he can barely walk on the sidelines anymore. The fact that still doesn't keep him off the sideline just makes him even more awesome. They said during the broadcast that Spurrier was coming off back surgery. Repair to 7 discs I believe they said. Thus the limping around.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2019 22:13:55 GMT -6
It is, but how old is that guy now? He looks like he can barely walk on the sidelines anymore. The fact that still doesn't keep him off the sideline just makes him even more awesome. They said during the broadcast that Spurrier was coming off back surgery. Repair to 7 discs I believe they said. Thus the limping around. I missed that part. I hope he makes a quick recovery. Love him or hate him, he's a legit national treasure at this point.
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Post by 53 on Feb 9, 2019 22:15:14 GMT -6
I love that he’s got some personality and not just a film watching cyborg.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 9, 2019 22:21:54 GMT -6
Well, the product on the field has been pretty well executed by one team: the Orlando Apollos. Didn't get to see the other game, but it looks like an ugly affair based on that stat line posted above. Looking at how little the teams appear to have practiced (and I'd like to know how much, myself), it looks like an unfettered defense would have just made everyone look completely inept. I got the sense from Spurrier and the other guys coming out of retirement to coach that they're treating this as more of a part-time gig that they aren't taking as seriously as they once did their college or NFL careers. Why do you get that sense?
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Post by nhsehs on Feb 9, 2019 22:42:40 GMT -6
A few factors in the league’s favor...
...Highly respected league executives and coaches ...Innovative broadcasting features (mic’d up players, coaches, refs) ...Huge incentive for players to give great effort/produce (NFL contracts) .. Regional roster construction will produce stronger fan bases ...Franchises in cities located in football hotbeds but don’t have NFL teams
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Post by jamesskeeler on Feb 9, 2019 22:43:34 GMT -6
I was actually pretty pleased with the game I watched (san antonio vs san diego) they were hitting, and it sure beats the h3ll out of watching basketball.. I think as the season progresses the play will improve (obviously)
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Post by tothehouse on Feb 9, 2019 22:48:50 GMT -6
I'm starting it... #fireMikeMartz
Just saying.
Definitely liked watching football instead of whatever else.
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Post by bobgoodman on Feb 10, 2019 14:58:09 GMT -6
Who wants to watch a controlled scrimmage when there are plenty of spring leagues -- men's & women's -- playing unrestricted football? Doesn't seem like a controlled scrimmage to me. Rather just some modifications of a game being played by some pretty talented players in an environment that I really hope succeeds (I have long argued that one of the best things for student athletes is a properly organized developmental / minor league system. While right now the official AAF position is not to take kids out of HS, I am hoping that may change. Bob, I am fairly confident in saying that the spring leagues you refer to would look like absolute crap compared to the quality product being shown here. I'm sure you're right about that last bit in an objective sense, but so practically all the football we coach is absolute crap compared to that too -- but it's still a lot of fun! And more fun with fewer restrictions.
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Post by mattharris75 on Feb 10, 2019 17:03:05 GMT -6
Watching Memphis vs Birmingham right now, and Perez is looking really good at QB for the Ham. So far the O lines seem to be more of an issue than the QB play.
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Post by 19delta on Feb 10, 2019 17:41:39 GMT -6
Compared to the XFL, the quality of play is much better.
With that being said, they are going to need to find a way to encourage more downfield passing. So far, the QB play has been pretty bad.
Does anyone have a link for AAF box scores and stats? I couldn't find anything on the AAF website, ESPN, or CBS Sports.
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Post by mattharris75 on Feb 10, 2019 17:48:30 GMT -6
Compared to the XFL, the quality of play is much better. With that being said, they are going to need to find a way to encourage more downfield passing. So far, the QB play has been pretty bad. Does anyone have a link for AAF box scores and stats? I couldn't find anything on the AAF website, ESPN, or CBS Sports. Perez for Birmingham was 19-34 for 252. Good stats. Gilbert for Orlando was 15-25 for 227. Also very solid. Pretty efficient QB play by those guys.
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