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Post by groundchuck on Jan 30, 2019 20:31:51 GMT -6
How exactly does a high school to a D3 football team?
Is there actually a NLI?
I’m asking not to be rude but to be able to better understand the phenomenon on Twitter.
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Post by 19delta on Jan 30, 2019 21:49:29 GMT -6
I've seen it done two different ways. First, the AD or HFC creates a Google doc by cutting and pasting the school's logo or mascot and the kid signs that. But there is also an official form that can be downloaded from the NCAA. It's called a Celebratory Signing Form. They look something like this: goo.gl/images/aEWuTq
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Post by coachdawhip on Feb 17, 2019 12:05:04 GMT -6
d3 schools can send a understanding of commitment NOT binding but allows them to party like everyone else!
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 17, 2019 12:32:51 GMT -6
How exactly does a high school to a D3 football team? Is there actually a NLI? I’m asking not to be rude but to be able to better understand the phenomenon on Twitter. As others have mentioned, it is simply a celebration (as is the day for Div 1 and Div 2 kids). The only difference is that there really is nothing to sign, since Div III has no athletic grant in aid packages to offer. D3 coaches never truly know their "class" until practice begins.
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Post by 19coach78 on Feb 18, 2019 10:10:07 GMT -6
In the age of " Make everyoneHappy" Our school has anyone going on to play at the next level sit down with a pen and blank piece of paper and have their photo take. mom and Dad are invited oh its a Hoot !! Dang we even had a PWO do it !!
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Post by CoachHam55 on Feb 18, 2019 11:42:39 GMT -6
In the age of " Make everyoneHappy" Our school has anyone going on to play at the next level sit down with a pen and blank piece of paper and have their photo take. mom and Dad are invited oh its a Hoot !! Dang we even had a PWO do it !! This isn't the case of "making everyone happy." It's a situation of recognizing the work ethic and commitment of a kid who has worked incredibly hard to maintain good grades while excelling in one or more sports. With so many high school kids not willing to make the commitment to play football at all, as coaches and educators, isn't that the exact type of behavior we should be recognizing and the type of kid we should be making happy? None of the D1, D2, or NAIA kids that I have coached have ever complained about a D3 kid signing next to them on National Signing Day. Each one has been extremely happy for their football brothers to get a chance to further their education and playing career. I'm at a loss as to how this is a "make everyone happy" thing. AJ
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 18, 2019 12:33:24 GMT -6
In the age of " Make everyoneHappy" Our school has anyone going on to play at the next level sit down with a pen and blank piece of paper and have their photo take. mom and Dad are invited oh its a Hoot !! Dang we even had a PWO do it !! This isn't the case of "making everyone happy." It's a situation of recognizing the work ethic and commitment of a kid who has worked incredibly hard to maintain good grades while excelling in one or more sports. With so many high school kids not willing to make the commitment to play football at all, as coaches and educators, isn't that the exact type of behavior we should be recognizing and the type of kid we should be making happy? None of the D1, D2, or NAIA kids that I have coached have ever complained about a D3 kid signing next to them on National Signing Day. Each one has been extremely happy for their football brothers to get a chance to further their education and playing career. I'm at a loss as to how this is a "make everyone happy" thing. AJ Coach, I think the issue is that unlike d1, d2 schools, d3 schools have different types of football teams in their ranks. Some d3 schools reward coaches for bringing in ANYONE to their football team (more tuition!!). That is a different case than schools selecting HS students to join their programs.
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mc140
Sophomore Member
Posts: 202
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Post by mc140 on Feb 18, 2019 12:52:48 GMT -6
I love every time I see a kid on twitter who is "Blessed" and "Humbled" to receive a "Roster Spot" offer from some D3 school. Particularly the ones who win 1 or 2 games a year.
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Post by pvogel on Feb 18, 2019 13:01:11 GMT -6
Exactly. Not binding, not legal, but a lot of schools will email the HS coach a paper for the kids to sign. I worked at a d2 school and we did this as well for non-scholly kids. I imagine D1s do this for preferred walkons as well. Also kids need to know that "offers" from colleges and their subsequent "commitments" are also non-binding.
And its totally fine. A lot of the coaching community is making waaaay to big of a deal out of this.OUR KIDS ARE GOING TO COLLEGE. Let the kid be excited to go to college. And to get the opportunity to play college ball. I would rather hype up d3 and encourage it than have all these kids with the "d1 or bust" mentality. And it helps your relations in the building to show all the staff that football is helping these kids for college - and that all the colleges that stop by and take them out of 5 minutes of math is worth it.
Also if you are an 8th grader or the parent of an 8th grader would you rather go to the school that is hyped about sending all these kids to college or the old curmudgeon that just wants kids to take their "offers" without any excitement and fanfare.
Embrace it. It does NOTHING bad to us as coaches. Like I feel like we're just looking for individual things to be pissed at to satisfy our "these damn kids" attitude.
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Post by CoachHam55 on Feb 18, 2019 13:36:19 GMT -6
This isn't the case of "making everyone happy." It's a situation of recognizing the work ethic and commitment of a kid who has worked incredibly hard to maintain good grades while excelling in one or more sports. With so many high school kids not willing to make the commitment to play football at all, as coaches and educators, isn't that the exact type of behavior we should be recognizing and the type of kid we should be making happy? None of the D1, D2, or NAIA kids that I have coached have ever complained about a D3 kid signing next to them on National Signing Day. Each one has been extremely happy for their football brothers to get a chance to further their education and playing career. I'm at a loss as to how this is a "make everyone happy" thing. AJ Coach, I think the issue is that unlike d1, d2 schools, d3 schools have different types of football teams in their ranks. Some d3 schools reward coaches for bringing in ANYONE to their football team (more tuition!!). That is a different case than schools selecting HS students to join their programs. Coach, I do completely understand what you are saying. D1 is it's own animal. Completely agree. That being said, the equivalency model of athletic scholarship creates variation among programs at the D2 and NAIA not just D3. Some D2 & NAIA programs are genuinely interested in putting a great product out there. Some are interested in making money. All that being said, my only issue with the post I quoted is that it is a far cry from "making everyone happy" to recognizing a kid who is continuing his athletic and educational career at the next level regardless of that level. It doesn't cost anything and it helps promote our programs. These kids have the grades to be admitted to the school and the ability to be a part of that program. It is our job as coaches to help them understand what type of program they are joining and give them accurate feedback about their ability to play at that school. As long as they know what they are walking into, I'm all for recognizing their commitment to continuing in this great game. I have previously worked at a high school where D3s of any type wouldn't recruit our kids because of academics. Maybe that gives me a different perspective. I'm all for recognizing kids who want to show the commitment it takes to be a student-athlete at the next level whether that be D1, D2, D3, or NAIA. AJ
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 18, 2019 13:42:29 GMT -6
Coach, I think the issue is that unlike d1, d2 schools, d3 schools have different types of football teams in their ranks. Some d3 schools reward coaches for bringing in ANYONE to their football team (more tuition!!). That is a different case than schools selecting HS students to join their programs. Coach, I do completely understand what you are saying. D1 is it's own animal. Completely agree. That being said, the equivalency model of athletic scholarship creates variation among programs at the D2 and NAIA not just D3. Some D2 & NAIA programs are genuinely interested in putting a great product out there. Some are interested in making money. All that being said, my only issue with the post I quoted is that it is a far cry from "making everyone happy" to recognizing a kid who is continuing his athletic and educational career at the next level regardless of that level. It doesn't cost anything and it helps promote our programs. These kids have the grades to be admitted to the school and the ability to be a part of that program. It is our job as coaches to help them understand what type of program they are joining and give them accurate feedback about their ability to play at that school. As long as they know what they are walking into, I'm all for recognizing their commitment to continuing in this great game. I have previously worked at a high school where D3s of any type wouldn't recruit our kids because of academics. Maybe that gives me a different perspective. I'm all for recognizing kids who want to show the commitment it takes to be a student-athlete at the next level whether that be D1, D2, D3, or NAIA. AJ Just keep in mind that D3 schools set their own academic admission standards, so there are D3 schools that absolutely would recruit your kids regardless of their academic achievement.
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SconnieOC
Junior Member
Just here to learn the facemelter
Posts: 408
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Post by SconnieOC on Feb 18, 2019 13:48:41 GMT -6
In the age of " Make everyoneHappy" Our school has anyone going on to play at the next level sit down with a pen and blank piece of paper and have their photo take. mom and Dad are invited oh its a Hoot !! Dang we even had a PWO do it !! Why is celebrating someone going to college a bad thing? I mean I've seen schools have a big ceremony for every student who plans on continuing their education after high school whether its 4 year, 2 year, tech school, trades, whatever. They are encouraging people to try and be successful.. why is that wrong? If a kid gets a PWO at a D1 school, celebrate the crap out of that kid, if a kid is joining a d3 roster of 150, who cares, celebrate the crap out of the kid. I don't understand this latest trend of coaches turning up their noses at things that make their own players feel good about themselves. Don't you want your younger players to see this stuff so they get excited and maybe work a little bit harder for you so they can achieve those dreams?
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 18, 2019 14:04:38 GMT -6
In the age of " Make everyoneHappy" Our school has anyone going on to play at the next level sit down with a pen and blank piece of paper and have their photo take. mom and Dad are invited oh its a Hoot !! Dang we even had a PWO do it !! Why is celebrating someone going to college a bad thing? I mean I've seen schools have a big ceremony for every student who plans on continuing their education after high school whether its 4 year, 2 year, tech school, trades, whatever. They are encouraging people to try and be successful.. why is that wrong? If a kid gets a PWO at a D1 school, celebrate the crap out of that kid, if a kid is joining a d3 roster of 150, who cares, celebrate the crap out of the kid. I don't understand this latest trend of coaches turning up their noses at things that make their own players feel good about themselves. Don't you want your younger players to see this stuff so they get excited and maybe work a little bit harder for you so they can achieve those dreams? I don't disagree. I think what some people have experienced though, are guys who DIDN'T "work a little bit harder" didn't do what the program asked, didn't set a good example, heck DIDN'T even start or receive significant playing time trying to share the limelight with those who did.
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Post by larrymoe on Feb 18, 2019 14:06:02 GMT -6
Maybe because 50-66% of those kids who go to D3 will be out of school in a year with a $25k loan they'll be paying off for the next 20 years? Or if they stay they'll be $100k in debt for a degree they won't likely use just so they can say they played college football?
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SconnieOC
Junior Member
Just here to learn the facemelter
Posts: 408
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Post by SconnieOC on Feb 18, 2019 14:33:35 GMT -6
Why is celebrating someone going to college a bad thing? I mean I've seen schools have a big ceremony for every student who plans on continuing their education after high school whether its 4 year, 2 year, tech school, trades, whatever. They are encouraging people to try and be successful.. why is that wrong? If a kid gets a PWO at a D1 school, celebrate the crap out of that kid, if a kid is joining a d3 roster of 150, who cares, celebrate the crap out of the kid. I don't understand this latest trend of coaches turning up their noses at things that make their own players feel good about themselves. Don't you want your younger players to see this stuff so they get excited and maybe work a little bit harder for you so they can achieve those dreams? I don't disagree. I think what some people have experienced though, are guys who DIDN'T "work a little bit harder" didn't do what the program asked, didn't set a good example, heck DIDN'T even start or receive significant playing time trying to share the limelight with those who did. I'll agree with you there. No doubt there are some kids who don't deserve the chance to be continuing to play, which is unfortunate for the guys who have worked really hard. The reality is that some schools have to recruit numbers, and end up with guys who didn't start just to fill a bed in the dorm. I feel like between parents and kids along with us as coaches, can do a better job educating people on the reality of what some of those places are. I saw online that Arizona Christian (NAIA) signed 92 freshmen.. I mean that's an absolute joke, and there needs to be people attempting to educate these kids about that.
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Post by agap on Feb 18, 2019 16:04:31 GMT -6
I know some schools won't celebrate anyone signing because if you do it for D1 players, you have to do it for D2 on down plus band, choir, etc. I'm sure that's a reason why schools are having signing days for D3 players now.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 18, 2019 17:40:20 GMT -6
I know some schools won't celebrate anyone signing because if you do it for D1 players, you have to do it for D2 on down plus band, choir, etc. I'm sure that's a reason why schools are having signing days for D3 players now. and I will be honest, they SHOULD be celebrating. Lets face it, the fact that a kid is signing D1 as opposed to D2 or D3 by and large is not his doing. I just can also see someone having issues with someone having a signing for a cancerous player who is "taking his talents (and parent's check book) to a d3 school.
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Post by canesfan on Feb 18, 2019 21:30:18 GMT -6
We celebrate them all. If a kid is happy with where he’s going we’re gonna support them.
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Post by Coach Vint on Feb 19, 2019 11:38:24 GMT -6
It is vital to educate your kids on the process and the different levels. We educate them on what "scholarship" means and help they and their parents understand the investment they will make financially. We educate them on private and public universities and the difference in cost. We discourage kids from having to take out loans. We do, however, celebrate every kid. If we have a 6-2, 240 pound kid signing with a D2, we celebrate. If we have a 5-8, 200 pound kid going to a D3, we celebrate. I don't care what level it is, we celebrate out kids. Why would we not celebrate a kid going to a D3 school? Because it costs money and doesn't give a full ride? If he and his parents make that choice, and they get to use football as a catalyst to get educated, good for them. What I won't have is us acting like it doesn't matter. If it matters to the kid, it matters to me.
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Post by fantom on Feb 19, 2019 18:28:10 GMT -6
About the D.3 kids having to pay: Were they planning to go to college anyway? If so, what difference does it make if they chose one school over another because they're going to play football?
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Post by 19delta on Feb 19, 2019 20:36:38 GMT -6
It is vital to educate your kids on the process and the different levels. We educate them on what "scholarship" means and help they and their parents understand the investment they will make financially. We educate them on private and public universities and the difference in cost. We discourage kids from having to take out loans. We do, however, celebrate every kid. If we have a 6-2, 240 pound kid signing with a D2, we celebrate. If we have a 5-8, 200 pound kid going to a D3, we celebrate. I don't care what level it is, we celebrate out kids. Why would we not celebrate a kid going to a D3 school? Because it costs money and doesn't give a full ride? If he and his parents make that choice, and they get to use football as a catalyst to get educated, good for them. What I won't have is us acting like it doesn't matter. If it matters to the kid, it matters to me. How do kids attend college in this era without taking out loans? Even a public school like the University of Illinois is going to cost $30,000/year. There are cheaper public schools than that, of course. But the fact is that most kids are going to have to take loans if they want to attend a 4-year school. Hell...even junior colleges aren't exactly cheap.
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Post by larrymoe on Feb 19, 2019 21:36:59 GMT -6
About the D.3 kids having to pay: Were they planning to go to college anyway? If so, what difference does it make if they chose one school over another because they're going to play football? Most D3 schools to most state schools? I'd imagine it's about a $20k average difference.
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Post by fantom on Feb 19, 2019 21:49:58 GMT -6
About the D.3 kids having to pay: Were they planning to go to college anyway? If so, what difference does it make if they chose one school over another because they're going to play football? Most D3 schools to most state schools? I'd imagine it's about a $20k average difference. Not every D.3 school is a private school. Secondly, private schools that have recruited a kid will often come up with an aid package to get costs down to at or near state schools's.
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Post by larrymoe on Feb 20, 2019 11:16:15 GMT -6
Most D3 schools to most state schools? I'd imagine it's about a $20k average difference. Not every D.3 school is a private school. Secondly, private schools that have recruited a kid will often come up with an aid package to get costs down to at or near state schools's. I've never known a D3 that wasn't a private. I guess that's where my knowledge base is coming from. PS- I played D3. But, it wasn't just to play college football. I liked the school and my family could afford it without loans. Had it cost any more than Illinois State, I wouldn't have been going.
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Post by fantom on Feb 20, 2019 11:19:17 GMT -6
Not every D.3 school is a private school. Secondly, private schools that have recruited a kid will often come up with an aid package to get costs down to at or near state schools's. I've never known a D3 that wasn't a private. I guess that's where my knowledge base is coming from. PS- I played D3. But, it wasn't just to play college football. I liked the school and my family could afford it without loans. Had it cost any more than Illinois State, I wouldn't have been going. Same here.
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SconnieOC
Junior Member
Just here to learn the facemelter
Posts: 408
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Post by SconnieOC on Feb 20, 2019 13:26:14 GMT -6
Most D3 schools to most state schools? I'd imagine it's about a $20k average difference. Not every D.3 school is a private school. Secondly, private schools that have recruited a kid will often come up with an aid package to get costs down to at or near state schools's. It's not even if they are recruited. Some schools are a bit more shady than others and "find a way" but by rule, athletic recruiting cannot impact a student's financial aid. Not to say it doesn't. Wisconsin has 8 football playing public D3 schools, after academic scholarships, and the FAFSA stuff, many of the privates end up being the same or cheaper per year.
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Post by 19delta on Feb 20, 2019 16:31:30 GMT -6
Not every D.3 school is a private school. Secondly, private schools that have recruited a kid will often come up with an aid package to get costs down to at or near state schools's. I've never known a D3 that wasn't a private. I guess that's where my knowledge base is coming from. PS- I played D3. But, it wasn't just to play college football. I liked the school and my family could afford it without loans. Had it cost any more than Illinois State, I wouldn't have been going. Wisconsin state schools in the WIAC (Platteville, Whitewater, Eau Clair, La Crosse, Oshkosh, River Falls, Stevens Point, Stout) are all D3. But yeah...outside of those, most D3s are private. I did a quick Google search and the percentage I kept getting was that about 80% of D3 schools are private. However, I could not find a list of the public D3 schools nor could I find how many public D3 schools have football programs. I'm a D3 alumnus myself. While I did have to take some loans, it wasn't much. I only owed around $17,000 when I graduated in 1996 and wiped that out with a three year hitch in the US Army. The biggest issue I have with kids going the D3 route is that they will go to a school mostly because they want to play football and don't give much of a thought about academics. They get to school and pile up a bunch of debt and then find out that the degree program they want isn't offered there or isn't very good. If kids are going to go to a D3 school, it should be because that school meets their academic needs. If they get to play football, that should be looked at as a bonus but can't be the driving reason that they choose that school.
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Post by 19delta on Feb 20, 2019 16:37:32 GMT -6
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Post by wingtol on Feb 20, 2019 16:53:03 GMT -6
D3 have two types of recruits, the 20 or so dudes they really want to play ball that get recruited just like D1/2/etc (not that they have been recruited by those schools just approached the same way) and the hey man sure come play ball 40 dudes that round out the class to put a$$es in the seats and money in the bank. One of my best friends was recruited to play D3 and ended up paying room and board for four years at one of these 35+ a year schools (in like 1992 money). They hooked him up cause they wanted him and they were a good program at the time making playoff runs. And have coached kids who D3's were after that talked to us, requested film, got the kids aid, etc Have had kids I coached go D3 that we never even knew wanted to play college ball or heard from the school about the kid. Was basically, you got in? Great see you Aug 15th for camp! D3 can be some murky waters when it comes to football that's for sure.
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Post by familyman56 on Feb 21, 2019 16:37:57 GMT -6
D3 have two types of recruits, the 20 or so dudes they really want to play ball that get recruited just like D1/2/etc (not that they have been recruited by those schools just approached the same way) and the hey man sure come play ball 40 dudes that round out the class to put a$$es in the seats and money in the bank. One of my best friends was recruited to play D3 and ended up paying room and board for four years at one of these 35+ a year schools (in like 1992 money). They hooked him up cause they wanted him and they were a good program at the time making playoff runs. And have coached kids who D3's were after that talked to us, requested film, got the kids aid, etc Have had kids I coached go D3 that we never even knew wanted to play college ball or heard from the school about the kid. Was basically, you got in? Great see you Aug 15th for camp! D3 can be some murky waters when it comes to football that's for sure. Having played D3 at a private school, it was amazing how many kids came out to play as freshman that NEVER saw the field in HS. Vast majority of these kids last one season(or less) on the scout team, and then quit. In all honesty, its a great way to transition into college for them because they meet a bunch of kids and have shared experiences before school starts. I don't think most of these kids really ever thought they'd actually play. They also get to say they "play" college football. It's not like kids on campus or folks back home pay attention that they never even got to travel with the team to an away game. After the first season is done, they typically blame some phantom injury that they first got in high school flaring up again in college and use it as a reason to quit.
2 cents on the "dudes" that are actually recruited by the coaching staffs in D3. So many of these kids actually sucked, or in any event never live up to the hype. Best part of every season was watching these "big time recruits" get whooped in camp.
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