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Post by CS on Jan 16, 2019 20:17:12 GMT -6
I’m curious how many states separate there public vs private school state championships. We don’t in AR. But we do make private’s play up 2 classifications
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Post by PSS on Jan 16, 2019 20:21:58 GMT -6
In Texas they are in a totally different organizations. Public schools are governed by UIL. Private schools are governed by TAPPS.
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Post by fantom on Jan 16, 2019 20:22:37 GMT -6
We do in Virginia.
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Post by RunPeopleOver on Jan 16, 2019 20:32:59 GMT -6
Yep, completely separate in VA. I think we have had the same private school dominate for years in my area.
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Post by bignose on Jan 16, 2019 20:42:16 GMT -6
In Maryland there is a public school championship (MPSSAA) and there are a couple of private school leagues that have their own championships.
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Post by mattharris75 on Jan 16, 2019 22:56:02 GMT -6
There is a private school league in Alabama, but it's not that large and is quite spread out. A fair percentage of private schools play in the AHSAA with all the public schools.
There is a 1.35 multiplier for private school enrollment though, which typically results in a private school playing up a classification. There is also a 'competitive balance' rule which uses a point system that could push a private school up an additional classification, but you have to be dominating over several years for that to occur.
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Post by gian3074 on Jan 16, 2019 23:39:57 GMT -6
In New York it varies from section to section. Where I'm from in Section VI (Buffalo area) we do not allow private schools to compete with the public schools for championships and a private vs. public school game is rare. Most of our private schools near Buffalo have to go out of state for games. In Section V (Rochester) they allow private and public to compete together for the championships (Aquinas from Rochester has typically been a dominant force for a while there).
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Post by realdawg on Jan 17, 2019 4:58:47 GMT -6
Here in NC most privates are seperate. However, not all. All a private has to do to be allowed in the state association is to pay a minimal fee, and agree to follow the associations rules. There are no multipliers or anything. Charlotte Catholic is one of the few private schools who excel at football and play in the public league. They have become dominant in the state, having played in and won several championship games in a row.
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Post by carookie on Jan 17, 2019 9:40:32 GMT -6
In Southern California we do not separate; playoff brackets though have no connection to leagues, school size, or anything like that.
Every year they redo playoff divisions based on previous two year records/power points. The top 16 teams in each division make the playoffs each year, the better division the less amount of teams. So the top division D1 will have 17 teams and 16 make the playoffs, D13 will have approx 80 teams and 16 make the playoffs.
Private schools are spread throughout, but there are a lot clumped in the bottom 2 divisions, where schools of 300 kids end up playing schools of 2,000 in the playoffs- mainly because those big schools couldnt hang with schools of equal size so they are rewarded for being bad.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 10:40:16 GMT -6
PA is toying with the idea now, as well as creating a "Super class" where dominant programs will compete regardless of enrollment
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Post by OCoach131 on Jan 17, 2019 11:43:30 GMT -6
In GA there is a separate league for the really small private schools. But most privates are part of the GHSA along with all of the public schools. There is a multiplier used for privates and city schools based upon where their population comes from. The lowest classification in GA has separate public and private state championships. All of the other classes can have privates mixed in and they compete with the public schools for the state championship. Most of the really good private schools here play up in division anyway to keep geographic rivals.
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Post by Hitch & Pitch on Jan 17, 2019 12:25:06 GMT -6
Arizona is combined, which is big problem here for smaller class schools. The majority of Arizona is a rural state, with a large part being reservations (which is more rural, than rural).
Not only are the privates a problem, but these Charters and Prep Academy's are popping up on the street corners in Phoenix and the suburbs. They draw kids from underachieving (academic and athletic) 6A or 5A schools, the kids that for some reason can't go to (open enrollment), the top notch 6A or 5A's.
So a community of under 5,000 ("dried" up mining town, or reservation) are competing against the 5th largest metropolitan area in the country.
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Post by wolverine55 on Jan 17, 2019 13:51:14 GMT -6
No separation in Iowa or Illinois. IL has a 1.65 multiplier in place that generally moves schools up one class plus a "success factor" that may move them up an additional class. No multiplier or anything for Iowa private schools.
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Post by dblwngr on Jan 17, 2019 14:48:40 GMT -6
No separation in OR
Been taking a healthy dose of whoopn's from them the last 20 years.....even when we have solid teams.
Even better, we get to here about how amazing their program is (one team inparticular) compared to ours while they have 4 all league kids on their team that actually live in our district.
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Post by coachddwebb on Jan 17, 2019 15:04:44 GMT -6
Arizona is combined, which is big problem here for smaller class schools. The majority of Arizona is a rural state, with a large part being reservations (which is more rural, than rural). Not only are the privates a problem, but these Charters and Prep Academy's are popping up on the street corners in Phoenix and the suburbs. They draw kids from underachieving (academic and athletic) 6A or 5A schools, the kids that for some reason can't go to (open enrollment), the top notch 6A or 5A's. So a community of under 5,000 ("dried" up mining town, or reservation) are competing against the 5th largest metropolitan area in the country. It is also hard for the Southern Az schools to compete with the Phoenix schools as well..
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Post by nicku on Jan 17, 2019 19:47:39 GMT -6
Separated here in Texas as people above has said. However, Jesuit Prep in Dallas and Strake Jesuit in Houston play in the public league. Only exceptions I can remember.
I have no idea if its due to that separation being here since forever, but public is so much better than private in TX that its almost comical. Nolan Catholic and All-Saints Episcopal in Fort Worth are really the only ones I think are close, at least in the DFW area.
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Post by wingtol on Jan 17, 2019 20:58:34 GMT -6
PA is toying with the idea now, as well as creating a "Super class" where dominant programs will compete regardless of enrollment I would say toying with is a strong word to describe the situation. More like a group of administrators making noise about having separate divisions and the PIAA not even looking into the issue. Won't happen with out a huge fight due to the state law passed in the 70's allowing private schools in, think it's actually part of state constitution cause of that law.
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Post by spartan on Jan 17, 2019 22:02:35 GMT -6
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Post by coachbdud on Jan 17, 2019 23:43:47 GMT -6
We do not separate public/private in CA... up until a couple years ago i always thought we should but now i really dont think it matters
some of the public schools do way more recruiting than the private schools
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Post by mariner42 on Jan 18, 2019 0:13:12 GMT -6
We do not separate public/private in CA... up until a couple years ago i always thought we should but now i really dont think it matters some of the public schools do way more recruiting than the private schools Especially in the Wild West Southern Section.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2019 6:12:34 GMT -6
PA is toying with the idea now, as well as creating a "Super class" where dominant programs will compete regardless of enrollment I would say toying with is a strong word to describe the situation. More like a group of administrators making noise about having separate divisions and the PIAA not even looking into the issue. Won't happen with out a huge fight due to the state law passed in the 70's allowing private schools in, think it's actually part of state constitution cause of that law. Yeah i agree buti dont think it will happen, nor do i think the PIAA should, its rediculous anyway Noone ever made a peep when the teams in the west dominated for decades, but once the teams in the east start winning titles, all the sudden its "unfair" SC Just won what ? Its 9th, nobody says anything ...
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Post by wingtol on Jan 18, 2019 6:52:07 GMT -6
I would say toying with is a strong word to describe the situation. More like a group of administrators making noise about having separate divisions and the PIAA not even looking into the issue. Won't happen with out a huge fight due to the state law passed in the 70's allowing private schools in, think it's actually part of state constitution cause of that law. Yeah i agree buti dont think it will happen, nor do i think the PIAA should, its rediculous anyway Noone ever made a peep when the teams in the west dominated for decades, but once the teams in the east start winning titles, all the sudden its "unfair" SC Just won what ? Its 9th, nobody says anything ... Yup, one of the main guys pushing for it is a super. up here. They can't beat C.Prep so now they want to kick them out but meanwhile get many transfers from the city, where a couple of their coaches coaches before, but they seem to overlook that... I've always said there are like 5-6 teams that can win a state title in each class anyways more classes or getting rid of privates isn't going to magically make everyone a contender every year. What happens when the same public's win every year? Oh yea we'll make a SUPER CLASS for them cause you can't be too good for too long any more... Now there are some places that aren't the best at following the rules but the new transfer rules should help with that
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2019 7:15:11 GMT -6
Its different on the left side of the state
But it still wasn't much of an issue until District 12 started winning repeated titles that's when it seemed to all the sudden become "unfair"
The lesser competitive schools in this area don't seem to have as much of an issue with it as the school's out west (and some north) do for some reason.
For ex you dont hear any PCL schools complaining about SJP, who is the ECP of the east.
They just play ball.
ECP beat us again this year...they were a better team, nobody here was b!tching about it
SJP wins another...."holy $hit its so unfair something must be done" etc...
It's almost like winning is some kind of right or something with these people who have issues with it
Sad
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Post by MICoach on Jan 18, 2019 7:23:21 GMT -6
In Michigan everyone plays together. We've had a couple private schools go on good runs but never really to the point of dominating their divisions. One school won five straight a couple years back but had no history of success before that.
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Post by The Lunch Pail on Jan 18, 2019 7:39:56 GMT -6
Missouri here.
We give a 1.35 multiplier but IMO that is not nearly enough. In STL, a lot of small private schools have loaded up with rosters full of D1 blue chip recruits, and putting those kids against schools like where I’m at now, a rural community where a D2 kid might get a statue built for him, is unfair.
Trinity Catholic is about 400 in enrollment (9-12) and had 100 division one offers in this year’s junior class ALONE. That’s not even their most talented class, either. Their Senior class was loaded with offers from Texas, Bama, etc. and sophomores are talented as well. Their entire OL is 6’5 300 lb guys with a literal All-American QB, and their best defender was a 4* with offers from LSU, Texas, and Bama. I’m pretty sure literally every starter had some type of a D1 or D2 offer.
STL has other schools of similar size such as Cardinal Ritter, Lutheran, and Lutheran North. John Burroughs was this way when they had Ezekiel Elliot as well. Putting these teams up against little farming schools where kids might have to miss practice/weights for FFA is silly.
Either private schools need their own separate classification, or they need a 2.0 multiplier. The 1.35 just moves them to the top of their class, but 2.0 at least guarantees they’re playing one class higher. Trinity literally had to play Colquitt County, a 7A powerhouse from GA, because nobody of any class wants to play them around here. Something needs to be done.
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Post by HitTheJets on Jan 18, 2019 8:24:04 GMT -6
Illinois does not separate but has a multiplier that can result in a private playing 1-2 classes above enrollment. 4 of the 5 largest classifications were won by privates this past season, and 7 of those 10 teams in the title games were privates.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Jan 18, 2019 8:33:31 GMT -6
No separation in Delaware. But we only have maybe 10 private schools with football. Only 1 of them is considered in our "large" school division.
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