|
|
Post by 8manspartan on Jan 14, 2019 12:46:15 GMT -6
Just had a meeting with our AD. Another team is joining our conference to make us an 11 team conference. We can only play 9 games before the playoffs, so the conference is trying to come up with solutions to this problem. Does anybody have any experience dealing with something like this? One solution is that 2 teams wouldn't play each other that year, but what do you do to determine who skips who? Do you create subdivisions? Our conference gets 4 teams into the playoffs, and from a geographic standpoint, the 4 best teams are traditionally from the same geographical area (our conference from a bus standpoint is huge--7 hour bus ride 1 way for our furthest game). Would love to hear some ideas/thoughts. Thanks!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2019 13:03:08 GMT -6
I would say that a lot of this depends on how your governing body does things. Check with them.
|
|
|
|
Post by gccwolverine on Jan 14, 2019 13:16:06 GMT -6
Just had a meeting with our AD. Another team is joining our conference to make us an 11 team conference. We can only play 9 games before the playoffs, so the conference is trying to come up with solutions to this problem. Does anybody have any experience dealing with something like this? One solution is that 2 teams wouldn't play each other that year, but what do you do to determine who skips who? Do you create subdivisions? Our conference gets 4 teams into the playoffs, and from a geographic standpoint, the 4 best teams are traditionally from the same geographical area (our conference from a bus standpoint is huge--7 hour bus ride 1 way for our furthest game). Would love to hear some ideas/thoughts. Thanks! Sub divide into 2 divisions 6 and 5 one side plays 5 divisional games + 3 cross overs vs the other side the other side plays 4 divisional games + 4 cross overs vs the other side that covers weeks 1-8. Week 9: 1v2 for the conference title 3v4 5v6 7v8 9v10 11 get the basketballs out probably should have had them out 5 weeks earlier since you know...... THEY ARE IN 11TH. |
|
|
|
Post by bobgoodman on Jan 15, 2019 19:33:40 GMT -6
I like gccwolverine's idea, but as another possibility just rotating the teams that wouldn't play until game 10. That is, make up 1 cross-table for all time, & rotate the order annually. No saying they couldn't play the 10th game while someone else is in playoffs, right? Assuming it's not them.
|
|
|
|
Post by Chris Clement on Jan 20, 2019 16:34:00 GMT -6
How many weeks?
|
|
|
|
Post by Chris Clement on Jan 20, 2019 16:35:27 GMT -6
Oh and also, it's impossible. If each team plays 9 games that's 99 games, but of course two teams in each games, that means 49.5 total games. It doesn't work.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachklee on Jan 20, 2019 16:53:21 GMT -6
Just had a meeting with our AD. Another team is joining our conference to make us an 11 team conference. We can only play 9 games before the playoffs, so the conference is trying to come up with solutions to this problem. Does anybody have any experience dealing with something like this? One solution is that 2 teams wouldn't play each other that year, but what do you do to determine who skips who? Do you create subdivisions? Our conference gets 4 teams into the playoffs, and from a geographic standpoint, the 4 best teams are traditionally from the same geographical area (our conference from a bus standpoint is huge--7 hour bus ride 1 way for our furthest game). Would love to hear some ideas/thoughts. Thanks! Sub divide into 2 divisions 6 and 5 one side plays 5 divisional games + 3 cross overs vs the other side the other side plays 4 divisional games + 4 cross overs vs the other side that covers weeks 1-8. Week 9: 1v2 for the conference title 3v4 5v6 7v8 9v10 11 get the basketballs out probably should have had them out 5 weeks earlier since you know...... THEY ARE IN 11TH. Except 6x3 = 18 games & 5x4 = 20 games so that cross over plan would need to be tweaked... Also, there will always be at l least 1 team with a “bye” from the conference schedule. |
|
|
|
Post by bobgoodman on Jan 21, 2019 9:51:31 GMT -6
Oh and also, it's impossible. If each team plays 9 games that's 99 games, but of course two teams in each games, that means 49.5 total games. It doesn't work. I don't understand, unless what you're saying is that w an odd number of teams, each week 1 of them gets left out, so you need to add an extra week to allow for the byes. |
|
|
|
Post by Chris Clement on Jan 21, 2019 10:07:42 GMT -6
I’m saying it’s impossible, outright. An odd number of teams playing an odd number of games is impossible.
Imagine 5 teams and you want each team to play two games. Easy. Imagine five teams and you want each to play one game. Impossible, right? Fairly obvious? For any odd number of teams they must play an even number of games or imbalance the schedule somehow.
For three games and five teams you have the two games from above and then you have a game that doesn’t work, one team is left out.
Consider each match to be equal to two team-games. Obviously there must be a whole number of matches for it to work, therefore there must be an even number of team-games. Either the number of teams must be even or the number of games must be even or both.
M must be an element of the natural numbers
M = 1/2k, where k is team-games
,’, k=2M
,’, k is an even number
k=T*G
If T=2a and G=2b
k=4ab which must be even
If T=2a and G=2b+1
k=4ab+2a = 2(2ab+a) which must be even
By symmetry if T=2a+1 and G=2b k is even
If T=2a+1 and G=2b+1
k=4ab+2a+2b+1=2(2ab+a+b)+1 which is odd.
So the league can either:
add a game for everyone,
remove a game for everyone
Add a team
Remove a team
Unbalance the schedule
If you imbalance the schedule by removing the game with the longest drive that’s your easiest solution.
|
|
|
|
Post by bobgoodman on Jan 21, 2019 20:04:18 GMT -6
I’m saying it’s impossible, outright. An odd number of teams playing an odd number of games is impossible. Imagine 5 teams and you want each team to play two games. Easy. Imagine five teams and you want each to play one game. Impossible, right? Fairly obvious? For any odd number of teams they must play an even number of games or imbalance the schedule somehow. But the only constraint was that they play no more than 9 games before playoffs. Teams that aren't in the playoffs can get in their 10th game during playoffs. Only the pre-playoff schedule need be unbalanced. |
|
|
|
Post by Chris Clement on Jan 21, 2019 20:07:31 GMT -6
Right but one way or another you will not have every team play 9 games within that conference. Whether teams play ad hoc tenth games afterward isn’t relevant. The easy solution is for one team to have an eight game conference schedule and make it up with a non conference game.
|
|
|
|
Post by M4 on Jan 22, 2019 9:07:45 GMT -6
Easiest way is to move to an 8 game conf schedule with 1 team on the bye per week over 9 weeks - one week you'll need to have 3 teams on the bye to ensure nobody pays 9 games in 9 weeks.
As for which opponents each team misses every year, the most transparent way is create a template schedule prior using "slots" then randomly assign teams in your league to each slot to create the final schedule - complete luck of the draw.
In that case a good suggestion would be to use the same schedule for back to back years - year 1 schedule and then year 2 schedule home and away flip and the game weeks go in reverse (so week 1 becomes week 9, week 9 becomes week 1 etc) so teams don't get the same bye week back to back.
Do the schedule up 4 years in advance and tell teams to schedule their own non-conf games on their bye if they want the 9th game.
|
|
|
|
Post by coachwoodall on Jan 22, 2019 9:25:30 GMT -6
When we have odd numbered regions created during re-alignment, usually that region will try to marry up with another odd numbered region to pick up that off game.
The bigger hurdle is that you have more teams that week of the season to handle.
|
|
|
|
Post by mnike23 on Jan 22, 2019 10:33:58 GMT -6
cant play 11 games in 9 weeks....
|
|
|
|
Post by Chris Clement on Jan 22, 2019 21:52:35 GMT -6
Easiest way is to move to an 8 game conf schedule with 1 team on the bye per week over 9 weeks - one week you'll need to have 3 teams on the bye to ensure nobody pays 9 games in 9 weeks. As for which opponents each team misses every year, the most transparent way is create a template schedule prior using "slots" then randomly assign teams in your league to each slot to create the final schedule - complete luck of the draw. In that case a good suggestion would be to use the same schedule for back to back years - year 1 schedule and then year 2 schedule home and away flip and the game weeks go in reverse (so week 1 becomes week 9, week 9 becomes week 1 etc) so teams don't get the same bye week back to back. Do the schedule up 4 years in advance and tell teams to schedule their own non-conf games on their bye if they want the 9th game. Fortunately it's already been done here. Just map your conference teams 1:1 for each team in the link. 11 teams, 8 games is obviously doable but it's a pain in the ass. |
|
|
|
Post by bobgoodman on Jan 23, 2019 21:29:37 GMT -6
Right but one way or another you will not have every team play 9 games within that conference. Whether teams play ad hoc tenth games afterward isn’t relevant. Who said ad hoc? You just rotate it every year. Make an 11-team crosstable. Number the rows. First year you start with row 1, finish with row 11, which will run concurrently with a playoff. 2nd yr. start w row 2, finish w row 1. Etc. |
|
|
|
Post by Chris Clement on Jan 24, 2019 11:55:56 GMT -6
As hoc in the sense that you’d be scheduling nominally regular season games after the regular season has ended. You’d have to see who made the playoffs and make your matchups at that time.
|
|
|
|
Post by bobgoodman on Jan 24, 2019 23:25:06 GMT -6
As hoc in the sense that you’d be scheduling nominally regular season games after the regular season has ended. You’d have to see who made the playoffs and make your matchups at that time. I was assuming only 1, possibly 2 teams made the playoffs, so the great majority of concluding games would be unaffected. But if this is one of those states where the playoffs are ridiculously large, then maybe the concluding game schedule would be totally scrambled. (If you have a clear champion in your local circuit, why should you need to send any other teams into a competition that's supposed to determine the best team?) |
|
|
|
Post by Chris Clement on Jan 25, 2019 8:52:28 GMT -6
Oh, I thought it was a regular season that led into district playoffs so 6-ish teams would be in the playoffs. That said, I do support non-playoff teams scheduling post-season games. Why not? It’s all kind of meaningless anyway, just have some fun. 8manspartan have you figured this out yet? I think your options are pretty clear: 8 game schedule and teams have to sort out their own ninth game 9 game schedule but unbalanced, you’d need to cut out one game at least and those teams would be on their own. 9 game schedule but you need to find at least one game to cross over with another district 8 game schedule and have a 9th game for everyone as a crossover. |
|
|
|
Post by 8manspartan on Jan 25, 2019 10:27:38 GMT -6
Looks like we're going 2 subdivisions, 5 in one division and 6 in the other. We have 2 crossover games that don't count toward divisional standings. Week 8 is when #1s from both divisions play each other, #2s play each other, and so on. Our district gets four playoff spots, so when you get to 4s playing 4s and below, their season is done after that game. The last place team doesn't play in week 8.
|
|
|
|
Post by bobgoodman on Jan 25, 2019 12:52:43 GMT -6
Looks like we're going 2 subdivisions, 5 in one division and 6 in the other. We have 2 crossover games that don't count toward divisional standings. Week 8 is when #1s from both divisions play each other, #2s play each other, and so on. Our district gets four playoff spots, so when you get to 4s playing 4s and below, their season is done after that game. The last place team doesn't play in week 8. Just have to note that's 9 games to eliminate just 64% of the entries, then they start knocking out whoever's left at 50% every single game! What a way to select a champ, huh? Why can't they knock out more based on the season, & then they won't have to squeeze the season down, & have less chance of a weaker entry knocking out a stronger one by a single fluke result in single elimination? Also less traveling, more advance scheduling that way. |
|
