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Post by 19delta on Jan 6, 2019 5:54:34 GMT -6
Two things... #1 You weren't breaking the law or even cheating. #2 You still had to train hard. I think you are giving too much credit to the PED you took and not enough credit to the work you put in the weightroom. One of the truly toxic aspects of steroid culture is the way the geared up kids turn into head-in-the-sand coaches’ go to examples of virtuous hard workers. But that is clearly NOT the case here. OP is obviously remorseful for having used a PED to the point that he is advocating screening for high school athletes. And he didnt even use steroids, just an OTC that ss not particularly effective and was legal and easily available at the time.
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Post by 19delta on Jan 6, 2019 6:01:28 GMT -6
I guess I am worried about it because I was that kid. I used to take androstenedione in high school before Mark McGwire got it banned. He was the guy that turned me on to it. You could buy it anywhere for about $100 a bottle in 2003. It took my bench from 250 to 350 and squat from 365 to 500. I went from 200 lb to 220 and dropped my 40 from 4.9 to a laser timed 4.7. All of this happened in a summer. I went from an all conference honorable mention type to all state type of linebacker. I wasn't even that technically sound but I put kids on stretchers frequently and that big hit highlight tape was enough to get me recruited. I feel bad about it after all these years so I kinda keep an eye out for it. I was taking about double the recommended amount and never had any type of side effects. Granted I wouldn't classify it as a super serious steroid as it is just a prohoromone, but it drastically affected the course of my life. The worst part about it was that once guys on the team figured out what I was taking, it became common place for other kids on the team to go and steal the stuff from supplement stores. We would give the stuff away to guys we thought it would help. The entire defense was on it except the corners because we couldn't get them in the weight room anyway (basketball guys 😂) we went from 3-5 to 7-1 and won the conference the next two years. Honestly I think our coach knew and didn't care because of how much progress we were making. I don't think it was technically illegal at the time, but androstenedione is definitely banned now. What a shining example of a team captain I was. Now imagine if we got our hands on Test or d-but or something. It was cheating on a large scale. I think you may be the only guy that got results from andro. There were other things at that time that worked really well but andro wasn’t one of them I think McGwire used andro as a prop to distract attention away from what he was really taking. That's why he left it in his locker so the reporters could conveniently see it there. The companies that produced and marketed andro should have cut McGwire a big check for all that free advertising.
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Post by jlenwood on Jan 6, 2019 8:14:31 GMT -6
I had a kid one year who his junior year turned into a straight stud. A smaller dude, but his strength just blew up and he had a motor that just wouldn't quit. He made several game changing plays over the course of his jr/sr seasons and I just thought it was him working harder than most, which he did. Come to find out a few years later he was going to a power lifting gym to work and got on some form of PED. I knew of another kid (after the fact) that turned into a blubbering tub of goo his senior year. Some of the kids told us what he was doing was ingesting as much protein and whatever supplements he could get his hands on, but he didn't do the work...ie: weight room, film, etc....in other words the kid was lazy and was looking for a quick perceived advantage.
Now, here is something to consider, maybe some of the kids who take this stuff, and actually do the work needed are getting more benefit from the actual work than the supplement. There is no doubt that there is some physiological advantages and recovery "help" that goes on, but maybe that kid is just looking for a boost up. Not saying that's good or I am advocating for PED's, but the correlation that I witnessed was the work paid off with the PED. The kid who improved went on and from school and is doing great, which I would attribute to work ethic, and the tub of goo is still a tub of goo.
I still believe that sleep, good quality food and a solid work ethic will do what is needed for the HS athlete.
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Post by silkyice on Jan 6, 2019 8:15:40 GMT -6
I think you may be the only guy that got results from andro. There were other things at that time that worked really well but andro wasn’t one of them I think McGwire used andro as a prop to distract attention away from what he was really taking. That's why he left it in his locker so the reporters could conveniently see it there. The companies that produced and marketed andro should have cut McGwire a big check for all that free advertising. I always assumed he was a paid advertiser for them.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 6, 2019 12:00:30 GMT -6
I can honestly say, in almost 20 years of off-and-on coaching, I have never seen anything even remotely approaching that scenario. With what money are we supposed to do UAs on every student athlete? Like 19delta said I just haven't seen it and I too have been on the sideline for 20+ years. Exactly... I can guarantee you that no school district in this country has the money to thoroughly test high school age athletes for PEDs. All we can do is educate the kids in the dangers of using various PEDs. I do a steroid unit with my weight training classes for a week where we get deep into the physiology behind steroid use. Some kids think it's pretty entertaining until I show them pics of a dude who's developed gynecomastia because he was juicing. Or when I show them a news article of a pro baseball player who had to have his testicles surgically "dropped" because they'd shrunk so much.
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biggus3
Sophomore Member
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Post by biggus3 on Jan 6, 2019 12:06:33 GMT -6
I guess I am worried about it because I was that kid. I used to take androstenedione in high school before Mark McGwire got it banned. He was the guy that turned me on to it. You could buy it anywhere for about $100 a bottle in 2003. It took my bench from 250 to 350 and squat from 365 to 500. I went from 200 lb to 220 and dropped my 40 from 4.9 to a laser timed 4.7. All of this happened in a summer. I went from an all conference honorable mention type to all state type of linebacker. I wasn't even that technically sound but I put kids on stretchers frequently and that big hit highlight tape was enough to get me recruited. I feel bad about it after all these years so I kinda keep an eye out for it. I was taking about double the recommended amount and never had any type of side effects. Granted I wouldn't classify it as a super serious steroid as it is just a prohoromone, but it drastically affected the course of my life. The worst part about it was that once guys on the team figured out what I was taking, it became common place for other kids on the team to go and steal the stuff from supplement stores. We would give the stuff away to guys we thought it would help. The entire defense was on it except the corners because we couldn't get them in the weight room anyway (basketball guys 😂) we went from 3-5 to 7-1 and won the conference the next two years. Honestly I think our coach knew and didn't care because of how much progress we were making. I don't think it was technically illegal at the time, but androstenedione is definitely banned now. What a shining example of a team captain I was. Now imagine if we got our hands on Test or d-but or something. It was cheating on a large scale. I think you may be the only guy that got results from andro. There were other things at that time that worked really well but andro wasn’t one of them. I saw andro work in about 20 guys that I knew were taking it. The results were too fast for it not to be working some. The placebo effect of "we have this magic bullet" may have come into play.I think just taking this gray area substance put us in the mindset that we didn't play around when it came to training. We were running the BFS program at my school. Our coach gave us t shirts for getting in the 1000 pound club. The culture was that if you didn't have that t shirt, you were subhuman and you were shunned. If you wanted in, we handed you your andro, saw you at 6 am, and once you hit your numbers, you made it. The only side effect was trying to keep the girls from coming in the weight room to check us out. Good times.
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biggus3
Sophomore Member
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Post by biggus3 on Jan 6, 2019 12:47:42 GMT -6
One thing I always thought was interesting was the prevalence of talent in TX, CA, and FL. These states are known narcotics trafficking routes. You can literally walk into a pharmacy in Mexico and buy whatever PEDS you want. Gear has to More of an issue there than other places. It makes no sense that there is so many people in the northeast but the rate that kids come out of there is not nearly as high.
I find the argument that there is no money to be absurd. Your telling me your athletic dept can't scrounge up a few hundred bucks and have a lottery to determine who give to? God forbid, we used our brains and targeted certain populations that are more likely to use.It's just not a priority and admin is afraid of backlash.
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Post by fkaboneyard on Jan 6, 2019 13:02:24 GMT -6
IMO, most schools will fold their sports programs before they take on the expense and headache of testing kids.
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Post by wolverine55 on Jan 6, 2019 13:04:32 GMT -6
One thing I always thought was interesting was the prevalence of talent in TX, CA, and FL. These states are known narcotics trafficking routes. You can literally walk into a pharmacy in Mexico and buy whatever PEDS you want. Gear has to More of an issue there than other places. It makes no sense that there is so many people in the northeast but the rate that kids come out of there is not nearly as high. I find the argument that there is no money to be absurd. Your telling me your athletic dept can't scrounge up a few hundred bucks and have a lottery to determine who give to? God forbid, we used our brains and targeted certain populations that are more likely to use.It's just not a priority and admin is afraid of backlash. 1. You either work at a rich school or you don't work for a school if you think the no money argument is absurd. 2. I hope I'm misreading you, because you seem to be suggesting we stereotype and profile "targeted populations" and single them out for testing... 3. If I'm interpreting you right in #2...you are right on your last: it isn't a priority but quite frankly it shouldn't be other than the educational points others have posted.
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Post by Yash on Jan 6, 2019 13:23:34 GMT -6
One of my players was complaining to me about a local rival who "all their guys are juicing" I told him they aren't juicing, they just all lift a lot more than us, quit making excuses for why we can't beat them and rally the troops, get in the weight room and take care of our business. He shut up.
Do they use advocare and supplements at a higher rate than us, yes I believe so because one of the higher grossing advocare sales guys is a parent in the district and I've talked to him and he told me how he works to get the kids taking it... I refuse to go that route, and I refuse to encourage supplement use. We can improve our dedication to the weight room as a first step for beating them.
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biggus3
Sophomore Member
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Post by biggus3 on Jan 6, 2019 13:28:28 GMT -6
One thing I always thought was interesting was the prevalence of talent in TX, CA, and FL. These states are known narcotics trafficking routes. You can literally walk into a pharmacy in Mexico and buy whatever PEDS you want. Gear has to More of an issue there than other places. It makes no sense that there is so many people in the northeast but the rate that kids come out of there is not nearly as high. I find the argument that there is no money to be absurd. Your telling me your athletic dept can't scrounge up a few hundred bucks and have a lottery to determine who give to? God forbid, we used our brains and targeted certain populations that are more likely to use.It's just not a priority and admin is afraid of backlash. 1. You either work at a rich school or you don't work for a school if you think the no money argument is absurd. 2. I hope I'm misreading you, because you seem to be suggesting we stereotype and profile "targeted populations" and single them out for testing... 3. If I'm interpreting you right in #2...you are right on your last: it isn't a priority but quite frankly it shouldn't be other than the educational points others have posted. You are correct that I work at a rich school. I have no data to support this, but I am going to go out on limb and say that steroid use is more prevalent at rich schools anyway. It is the rich schools in my area that are dominant at sports in my state. Wrestling and football drive the weight room culture where I'm at, and should be targeted if we were being honest. I don't think it's the cost that is prohibitive but the policy. I know our head coach would like to test and have the football program foot the bill, but we were explicitly told we can't .
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biggus3
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Post by biggus3 on Jan 6, 2019 13:38:00 GMT -6
I feel bad if you work at a "poor" school. You are already playing with the odds stacked against you. What if a certain "rich" school had a rampant steroid problem and had the means and desire to test, but were held back because of a silly policy. To me, it just weird given the prevalence of testing in the broader scope of sports.
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biggus3
Sophomore Member
Posts: 178
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Post by biggus3 on Jan 6, 2019 13:57:48 GMT -6
One of my players was complaining to me about a local rival who "all their guys are juicing" I told him they aren't juicing, they just all lift a lot more than us, quit making excuses for why we can't beat them and rally the troops, get in the weight room and take care of our business. He shut up. Do they use advocare and supplements at a higher rate than us, yes I believe so because one of the higher grossing advocare sales guys is a parent in the district and I've talked to him and he told me how he works to get the kids taking it... I refuse to go that route, and I refuse to encourage supplement use. We can improve our dedication to the weight room as a first step for beating them. I agree with you and I feel you have the more noble approach. In my experience it doesn't work if you want the immediate results. We used to run our program like yours until the main guys on the coaching staff had kids all at the same time. We just couldn't commit to the offseason like we wanted, so we farmed it out to a local gym owner that does charge our kids a decent amount for his services, he does push supplements on them as he is an advocare rep, and there has to be steroids in his gym just from the presence of NFL guys and powerlifters there. Literally the "buy in" from our guys has skyrocketed because I feel they are literally invested in their bodies and want to see results. In one year we went from .500 to a one loss team competing in state. Now I suspect we could be the team that is "juicing" but we can't do anything about it.
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Post by wolverine55 on Jan 6, 2019 13:57:56 GMT -6
I'm probably not the best one to answer that. Maybe I'm naive, but I don't think steroid use is nearly as rampant at the high school level as you seem to think it is. I will agree that in my state, generally speaking, the higher the median income, the higher the athletic success seems to be. I think "kids juicing" is very low on the list for why that is, though, if it's on the list at all.
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Post by Yash on Jan 6, 2019 14:30:26 GMT -6
One of my players was complaining to me about a local rival who "all their guys are juicing" I told him they aren't juicing, they just all lift a lot more than us, quit making excuses for why we can't beat them and rally the troops, get in the weight room and take care of our business. He shut up. Do they use advocare and supplements at a higher rate than us, yes I believe so because one of the higher grossing advocare sales guys is a parent in the district and I've talked to him and he told me how he works to get the kids taking it... I refuse to go that route, and I refuse to encourage supplement use. We can improve our dedication to the weight room as a first step for beating them. I agree with you and I feel you have the more noble approach. In my experience it doesn't work if you want the immediate results. We used to run our program like yours until the main guys on the coaching staff had kids all at the same time. We just couldn't commit to the offseason like we wanted, so we farmed it out to a local gym owner that does charge our kids a decent amount for his services, he does push supplements on them as he is an advocare rep, and there has to be steroids in his gym just from the presence of NFL guys and powerlifters there. Literally the "buy in" from our guys has skyrocketed because I feel they are literally invested in their bodies and want to see results. In one year we went from .500 to a one loss team competing in state. Now I suspect we could be the team that is "juicing" but we can't do anything about it. If you suspect your kids are using illegal substances but take the stance that you can’t do anything about it, you admitting you think you know, but want to plead ignorance. That’s a bad spot to be in my opinion. You can always do something. You may not be able to test them but talking, education, asking questions are always on the table. If they really are using illegal substances you need to look out for their health.
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biggus3
Sophomore Member
Posts: 178
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Post by biggus3 on Jan 6, 2019 14:44:20 GMT -6
I'm probably not the best one to answer that. Maybe I'm naive, but I don't think steroid use is nearly as rampant at the high school level as you seem to think it is. I will agree that in my state, generally speaking, the higher the median income, the higher the athletic success seems to be. I think "kids juicing" is very low on the list for why that is, though, if it's on the list at all. I don't really think it's rampant across the board at all schools. I don't think we have a national hs steroid crisis. But I do think there is pockets of heavy PED use especially in places where the pressure to compete is high. It doesn't have to be just injectable steroids either. Two years ago we had a rampant adderall problem on the team. Our quarterback was actually caught in the act of popping pills by a coach before a scrimmage without a prescription. I guess this was pretty common on our team across the board. It's just weird to me that testing is completely off the table in high school.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 6, 2019 16:00:09 GMT -6
One thing I always thought was interesting was the prevalence of talent in TX, CA, and FL. These states are known narcotics trafficking routes. You can literally walk into a pharmacy in Mexico and buy whatever PEDS you want. Gear has to More of an issue there than other places. It makes no sense that there is so many people in the northeast but the rate that kids come out of there is not nearly as high. I find the argument that there is no money to be absurd. Your telling me your athletic dept can't scrounge up a few hundred bucks and have a lottery to determine who give to? God forbid, we used our brains and targeted certain populations that are more likely to use.It's just not a priority and admin is afraid of backlash. The cost of a single steroid UA is $150 and that excludes the lab collection and testing fees. You have to pay a company to collect, handle and analyze the UA: you can't do it yourself.. A typical steroid test, handling and collection runs around $400: you test a dozen kids and the school pays nearly $5k. And, if a kid does happen to test positive, they take a SECOND confirmatory test that's far more expensive as it's usually gas-chromatography. You'd better friggin' hope that second sample comes back positive as well or the school is getting sued. You're going to find very few school administrators that are willing to shell tens of thousands of dollars each year and risk a lawsuit in the hopes of possibly catching a few kids that -might- be using steroids. I'd much rather see a school pay to test for marijuana and prescription drugs as we know those are major issues in many areas.
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biggus3
Sophomore Member
Posts: 178
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Post by biggus3 on Jan 6, 2019 17:04:47 GMT -6
One thing I always thought was interesting was the prevalence of talent in TX, CA, and FL. These states are known narcotics trafficking routes. You can literally walk into a pharmacy in Mexico and buy whatever PEDS you want. Gear has to More of an issue there than other places. It makes no sense that there is so many people in the northeast but the rate that kids come out of there is not nearly as high. I find the argument that there is no money to be absurd. Your telling me your athletic dept can't scrounge up a few hundred bucks and have a lottery to determine who give to? God forbid, we used our brains and targeted certain populations that are more likely to use.It's just not a priority and admin is afraid of backlash. The cost of a single steroid UA is $150 and that excludes the lab collection and testing fees. You have to pay a company to collect, handle and analyze the UA: you can't do it yourself.. A typical steroid test, handling and collection runs around $400: you test a dozen kids and the school pays nearly $5k. And, if a kid does happen to test positive, they take a SECOND confirmatory test that's far more expensive as it's usually gas-chromatography. You'd better friggin' hope that second sample comes back positive as well or the school is getting sued. You're going to find very few school administrators that are willing to shell tens of thousands of dollars each year and risk a lawsuit in the hopes of possibly catching a few kids that -might- be using steroids. I'd much rather see a school pay to test for marijuana and prescription drugs as we know those are major issues in many areas. I think a good cost effective system would be to have every student athlete submit a sample and then have a lottery to decide which couple get tested. I think it would scare the crap out of kids and be a major deterrent. I agree with you that weed and pills are probably the major problem. I have to imagine some company would do for a reasonable cost.
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Post by Yash on Jan 6, 2019 17:19:08 GMT -6
The cost of a single steroid UA is $150 and that excludes the lab collection and testing fees. You have to pay a company to collect, handle and analyze the UA: you can't do it yourself.. A typical steroid test, handling and collection runs around $400: you test a dozen kids and the school pays nearly $5k. And, if a kid does happen to test positive, they take a SECOND confirmatory test that's far more expensive as it's usually gas-chromatography. You'd better friggin' hope that second sample comes back positive as well or the school is getting sued. You're going to find very few school administrators that are willing to shell tens of thousands of dollars each year and risk a lawsuit in the hopes of possibly catching a few kids that -might- be using steroids. I'd much rather see a school pay to test for marijuana and prescription drugs as we know those are major issues in many areas. I think a good cost effective system would be to have every student athlete submit a sample and then have a lottery to decide which couple get tested. I think it would scare the crap out of kids and be a major deterrent. I agree with you that weed and pills are probably the major problem. I have to imagine some company would do for a reasonable cost. In an era where we are cutting teachers due to budget cuts this would be a frivolous waste of money.
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Post by Chris Clement on Jan 6, 2019 17:20:02 GMT -6
You want to spend five figures a year to find out if high school kids are smoking weed? Allow me to save you some money. biggus3 even if there was significant use, and it were considered a problem, and there were the motivation to do something, and you figured you could make it work politically, and you figured you could make it work legally, it's even more cost than the per-test quoted by coachcb, that's just the marginal cost of testing. You also need to consider that you're becoming WADA-compliant, that this implies a ton of additional training for staff AND players. It means keeping a detailed accurate list of addresses and contact info for every player, and knowing where they are at pretty much all times. That means knowing who is or isn't "on the team" which can be an ambiguous question. It means tracking therapeutic use exemptions, which means diving headfirst into HIPAA, so you need qualified and licensed medical staff handling all kinds of documents. Now that you're HIPAA-compliant, asking a kid about what pills he's taking becomes a tricky question, it's none of your damn business. It means the AD handling all of this for every sport, and knowing what's legal or not in what sport, having someone as the go-to reference for what weird supplements may or may not have banned ingredients, and the enormous liability that portends.
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biggus3
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Post by biggus3 on Jan 6, 2019 18:23:51 GMT -6
You want to spend five figures a year to find out if high school kids are smoking weed? Allow me to save you some money. biggus3 even if there was significant use, and it were considered a problem, and there were the motivation to do something, and you figured you could make it work politically, and you figured you could make it work legally, it's even more cost than the per-test quoted by coachcb, that's just the marginal cost of testing. You also need to consider that you're becoming WADA-compliant, that this implies a ton of additional training for staff AND players. It means keeping a detailed accurate list of addresses and contact info for every player, and knowing where they are at pretty much all times. That means knowing who is or isn't "on the team" which can be an ambiguous question. It means tracking therapeutic use exemptions, which means diving headfirst into HIPAA, so you need qualified and licensed medical staff handling all kinds of documents. Now that you're HIPAA-compliant, asking a kid about what pills he's taking becomes a tricky question, it's none of your damn business. It means the AD handling all of this for every sport, and knowing what's legal or not in what sport, having someone as the go-to reference for what weird supplements may or may not have banned ingredients, and the enormous liability that portends. I don't know. Schools have gone down the drug testing route before with mixed results. Some districts like it, others think it's a waste. I just want the ability to test if I feel it's needed. Apparently, some school districts in New Jersey and Ohio find its worth their time. Based off 5 minutes of google research, courts support the right for schools to test athletes, so I don't know when admin is so afraid of lawsuits . I don't buy the "it's hard to do, so I'd rather not" type of thinking. It's just lazy. The part that bothers me as coach is having rules that can't be enforced. What kind of message does that send? I would rather the governing body just come out and say we don't test, so it's on you. Personally, I think steroids should just be legal. They are legal in Mexico and you don't hear of them having any problems with them. Let's stop worrying about a level playing field and pretending we care about the welfare of top athletes when we all know they are using them anyway. The absolute limits of human performance are far more interesting. If you don't want to take them, play in a league where they are banned. Of course the only place I think they should be banned is when kids are involved, which is where apparently where we have the least enforcement. That's just silly.
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Post by Yash on Jan 6, 2019 18:25:57 GMT -6
You want to spend five figures a year to find out if high school kids are smoking weed? Allow me to save you some money. biggus3 even if there was significant use, and it were considered a problem, and there were the motivation to do something, and you figured you could make it work politically, and you figured you could make it work legally, it's even more cost than the per-test quoted by coachcb, that's just the marginal cost of testing. You also need to consider that you're becoming WADA-compliant, that this implies a ton of additional training for staff AND players. It means keeping a detailed accurate list of addresses and contact info for every player, and knowing where they are at pretty much all times. That means knowing who is or isn't "on the team" which can be an ambiguous question. It means tracking therapeutic use exemptions, which means diving headfirst into HIPAA, so you need qualified and licensed medical staff handling all kinds of documents. Now that you're HIPAA-compliant, asking a kid about what pills he's taking becomes a tricky question, it's none of your damn business. It means the AD handling all of this for every sport, and knowing what's legal or not in what sport, having someone as the go-to reference for what weird supplements may or may not have banned ingredients, and the enormous liability that portends. I don't know. Schools have gone down the drug testing route before with mixed results. Some districts like it, others think it's a waste. I just want the ability to test if I feel it's needed. Apparently, some school districts in New Jersey and Ohio find its worth their time. Based off 5 minutes of google research, courts support the right for schools to test athletes, so I don't know when admin is so afraid of lawsuits . I don't buy the "it's hard to do, so I'd rather not" type of thinking. It's just lazy. The part that bothers me as coach is having rules that can't be enforced. What kind of message does that send? I would rather the governing body just come out and say we don't test, so it's on you. Personally, I think steroids should just be legal. They are legal in Mexico and you don't hear of them having any problems with them. Let's stop worrying about a level playing field and pretending we care about the welfare of top athletes when we all know they are using them anyway. The absolute limits of human performance are far more interesting. If you don't want to take them, play in a league where they are banned. Of course the only place I think they should be banned is when kids are involved, which is where apparently where we have the least enforcement. That's just silly. And people are killed frequently in the streets in Mexico with no repercussions... let’s not base ethics off Mexico.
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Post by wolverine55 on Jan 6, 2019 18:59:56 GMT -6
You want to spend five figures a year to find out if high school kids are smoking weed? Allow me to save you some money. biggus3 even if there was significant use, and it were considered a problem, and there were the motivation to do something, and you figured you could make it work politically, and you figured you could make it work legally, it's even more cost than the per-test quoted by coachcb , that's just the marginal cost of testing. You also need to consider that you're becoming WADA-compliant, that this implies a ton of additional training for staff AND players. It means keeping a detailed accurate list of addresses and contact info for every player, and knowing where they are at pretty much all times. That means knowing who is or isn't "on the team" which can be an ambiguous question. It means tracking therapeutic use exemptions, which means diving headfirst into HIPAA, so you need qualified and licensed medical staff handling all kinds of documents. Now that you're HIPAA-compliant, asking a kid about what pills he's taking becomes a tricky question, it's none of your damn business. It means the AD handling all of this for every sport, and knowing what's legal or not in what sport, having someone as the go-to reference for what weird supplements may or may not have banned ingredients, and the enormous liability that portends. I don't know. Schools have gone down the drug testing route before with mixed results. Some districts like it, others think it's a waste. I just want the ability to test if I feel it's needed. Apparently, some school districts in New Jersey and Ohio find its worth their time. Based off 5 minutes of google research, courts support the right for schools to test athletes, so I don't know when admin is so afraid of lawsuits . I don't buy the "it's hard to do, so I'd rather not" type of thinking. It's just lazy. The part that bothers me as coach is having rules that can't be enforced. What kind of message does that send? I would rather the governing body just come out and say we don't test, so it's on you. Personally, I think steroids should just be legal. They are legal in Mexico and you don't hear of them having any problems with them. Let's stop worrying about a level playing field and pretending we care about the welfare of top athletes when we all know they are using them anyway. The absolute limits of human performance are far more interesting. If you don't want to take them, play in a league where they are banned. Of course the only place I think they should be banned is when kids are involved, which is where apparently where we have the least enforcement. That's just silly. I think where you are losing a lot of us--in addition to completely glossing over the cost factor--is your last paragraph here. Do you really feel "all" top athletes are using PEDS? Also, you seem to be crediting your own programs turnaround solely to kids "juicing." You don't feel any other factors are at play?
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biggus3
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Post by biggus3 on Jan 6, 2019 19:34:59 GMT -6
I don't know. Schools have gone down the drug testing route before with mixed results. Some districts like it, others think it's a waste. I just want the ability to test if I feel it's needed. Apparently, some school districts in New Jersey and Ohio find its worth their time. Based off 5 minutes of google research, courts support the right for schools to test athletes, so I don't know when admin is so afraid of lawsuits . I don't buy the "it's hard to do, so I'd rather not" type of thinking. It's just lazy. The part that bothers me as coach is having rules that can't be enforced. What kind of message does that send? I would rather the governing body just come out and say we don't test, so it's on you. Personally, I think steroids should just be legal. They are legal in Mexico and you don't hear of them having any problems with them. Let's stop worrying about a level playing field and pretending we care about the welfare of top athletes when we all know they are using them anyway. The absolute limits of human performance are far more interesting. If you don't want to take them, play in a league where they are banned. Of course the only place I think they should be banned is when kids are involved, which is where apparently where we have the least enforcement. That's just silly. I think where you are losing a lot of us--in addition to completely glossing over the cost factor--is your last paragraph here. Do you really feel "all" top athletes are using PEDS? Also, you seem to be crediting your own programs turnaround solely to kids "juicing." You don't feel any other factors are at play? I agree the cost is prohibitive for some districts, but for some it's not. Knowing how my district works, they would probably build it into the fee for playingf. and pass it on to the parents. Granted some wouldn't be able to pay but it could work. I don't think ALL top athletes use. However, many do. I don't think many, if any of our kids are using injectable steroids. However, they are taking so many supplements, there is no way that if we fleshed them out like a pro athlete, that a handful of kids would fail if checked for all the substances on the WADA list. I would like to know for sure. That said I don't think doping is the primary reason we were better this year. We stopped running the facemelter and we just ran the ball and played defense. Our o line play was markedly better than years past. They were physical and executed. That's the only thing that changed.
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Post by 53 on Jan 6, 2019 19:37:08 GMT -6
Our school system has a drug testing program. No matter what drug a student test positive for on the test, they go to a tobacco education class.
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Post by silkyice on Jan 6, 2019 19:49:48 GMT -6
Our school system has a drug testing program. No matter what drug a student test positive for on the test, they go to a tobacco education class. Very effective. Lol
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2019 20:34:01 GMT -6
One thing I always thought was interesting was the prevalence of talent in TX, CA, and FL. These states are known narcotics trafficking routes. You can literally walk into a pharmacy in Mexico and buy whatever PEDS you want. Gear has to More of an issue there than other places. It makes no sense that there is so many people in the northeast but the rate that kids come out of there is not nearly as high. CA, TX, and FL all have a lot more going for them, football-wise than proximity to narcotics trafficking routes. Especially Texas. Memphis and Louisville are two of the largest hubs for drug trafficking in the nation, too, because it all goes through there to get distributed to the rest of the eastern USA. I don't see Louisville as hotbed of talent any more than any other major city and Memphis tends to be hit-or-miss with a lot of players who wash out due to academics or discipline. Most narcotics traffickers are affiliated with South American cartels that usually don't deal in steroids and other PEDs, anyway. They see the market and profitability of those things as limited. Most PEDs go through licensed doctors or underground "labs" (which are usually just some guy with a table in his basement or kitchen) that get the powders in bulk from China and then just mix them with some sesame oil and put them in vials or stuff them into capsules. There is some smuggling from Mexico, but not much. This reminds me of another recent thread where somebody said he couldn't believe that HS kids were bench pressing 300lbs or squatting 500, as if it was just unthinkable, because the kids he coached didn't do it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2019 20:37:57 GMT -6
Our school system has a drug testing program. No matter what drug a student test positive for on the test, they go to a tobacco education class. Well, fewer kids are using tobacco than ever, so it must be working, right?
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Post by 53 on Jan 6, 2019 20:40:13 GMT -6
Our school system has a drug testing program. No matter what drug a student test positive for on the test, they go to a tobacco education class. Very effective. Lol It’s a local judges baby and the funding comes from that
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Post by 53 on Jan 6, 2019 20:54:57 GMT -6
Our school system has a drug testing program. No matter what drug a student test positive for on the test, they go to a tobacco education class. Well, fewer kids are using tobacco than ever, so it must be working, right? Oh yeah. Pretty much killed the Skoal patrol around here
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