|
|
Post by fshamrock on Dec 19, 2018 11:32:08 GMT -6
Instead of running on a tangent in the "why does this kid have no offers" thread so I'll start a new one
when I hear a coach say, this kid just doesn't have hips....what exactly are we talking about
I suspect it's kind of a catch all phrase that we use to just say that a kid doesn't look athletic when he moves, but just because it looks that way does that make it true?
are "hips" about change of direction?
I remember having defensive back once that we all said had bad "hips"....couldn't play safety, came out in the offseason and ran the pro-agility in a 4.10...which was one of our better times...but when the kid ran he just looked "stiff" he was really bulky in the upper body and just didn't look smooth, but when it came time to make cuts under the stopwatch he was plenty quick
are "hips" about bending? are we saying that the guy is too slow to lower his center of gravity and make cuts or tackle or break on the ball? Or is it more like that famous saying about pornography "i don't know how to define it but I know it when I see it"
I'd be curious to know from some of the movement guru's what exactly they are looking at when they make these determinations
thanks
|
|
|
|
Post by pvogel on Dec 19, 2018 11:38:08 GMT -6
Yes and yes. Not a movement guru by any means.
But I say he has no hips if he cannot open and close them quickly. Or if they have a hard time doing a full squat (obviously there are also issues with ankle flexibility that exist). You have to be able to bend and get low. It can also be seen when they do high knees - can they get that knee to their chest? That will give a better picture than the squat in some ways.
|
|
|
|
Post by carookie on Dec 19, 2018 11:53:01 GMT -6
I think when focusing on an OL, not having hips would mean not finishing a block explosively by bringing his hips. This most likely manifests itself in cases when a large OL is driving a physically inferior DL, but not finishing the block by rolling his hips. This then comes off as being a big fish in a small pond; 'he is able to drive these smaller DLs around the field, but once he makes it to college where talent is more homogeneous the lack of hips will be exposed'.
I can see a similar type of assessment being made on a tackler.
|
|
|
|
Post by carookie on Dec 19, 2018 12:30:54 GMT -6
Also, when a player in the open field plays with poor posture (mostly an overly upright position) that would be referred to as hips. At those times when we want chest over the knees to help lower the center of gravity and improve COD, usually leads to the hips adjusting their alignment.
|
|
|
|
Post by wingtol on Dec 19, 2018 13:25:35 GMT -6
I take it as when you watch them move if they look like a board when they run then they have stiff hips. I guess it's hard to explain with out watching someone. I said it in the other thread I'd take that kid in a second on my team but pull up some clips of guys who signed with power 5 schools today and watch them move in their highlights. I'm guessing that's the best way to kind of get an idea of "good hips"
|
|
|
|
Post by fshamrock on Dec 19, 2018 13:31:21 GMT -6
Yes and yes. Not a movement guru by any means. But I say he has no hips if he cannot open and close them quickly. Or if they have a hard time doing a full squat (obviously there are also issues with ankle flexibility that exist). You have to be able to bend and get low. It can also be seen when they do high knees - can they get that knee to their chest? That will give a better picture than the squat in some ways. what does opening and close them mean? by open you mean like when you raise your right leg and rotate it backwards? like if I was going to pass drop? |
|
|
|
Post by IronmanFootball on Dec 19, 2018 13:42:53 GMT -6
First test of hips is have the athlete overhead squat with a resistance band. If their heels come up / feet turn in/out they have tight hips/groin. The second test of hips is the 90/90 stretch. I promise you have kids that can't 90/90. www.onnit.com/academy/increase-hip-mobility/On the field in movement, I think back pedal - flip - accelerate would be a great test. From there the typical cross-over run for DB's and LB's is a good test. (W-Drill) In the weight room it is evident in poor cleans, snatches, dead lifts, and the inability to do unilaterals. That'll translate to poor hip movement in tackling (guys who tackle butt out and lunge as you work form tackling from knees) Guys who can't punch and drive in one fluid motion on the OL-LB-FB-HB side. Skill guys who can't run through tackles. |
|
|
|
Post by dubber on Dec 19, 2018 14:17:16 GMT -6
A lot of it is low center of gravity and balance.
Balance is so underrated.
Basically, can you move from an athletic position forward, backwards, side to side, etc.
|
|
|
|
Post by larrymoe on Dec 19, 2018 17:22:40 GMT -6
I generally take it to mean a kid couldn't possibly have more than 2-3 children.
|
|
|
|
Post by CS on Dec 19, 2018 17:42:50 GMT -6
First test of hips is have the athlete overhead squat with a resistance band. If their heels come up / feet turn in/out they have tight hips/groin. The second test of hips is the 90/90 stretch. I promise you have kids that can't 90/90. www.onnit.com/academy/increase-hip-mobility/On the field in movement, I think back pedal - flip - accelerate would be a great test. From there the typical cross-over run for DB's and LB's is a good test. (W-Drill) In the weight room it is evident in poor cleans, snatches, dead lifts, and the inability to do unilaterals. That'll translate to poor hip movement in tackling (guys who tackle butt out and lunge as you work form tackling from knees) Guys who can't punch and drive in one fluid motion on the OL-LB-FB-HB side. Skill guys who can't run through tackles. If there heels pop up it’s more in line with poor ankle mobility than tight hips |
|
|
|
Post by pvogel on Dec 19, 2018 19:03:43 GMT -6
Yes and yes. Not a movement guru by any means. But I say he has no hips if he cannot open and close them quickly. Or if they have a hard time doing a full squat (obviously there are also issues with ankle flexibility that exist). You have to be able to bend and get low. It can also be seen when they do high knees - can they get that knee to their chest? That will give a better picture than the squat in some ways. what does opening and close them mean? by open you mean like when you raise your right leg and rotate it backwards? like if I was going to pass drop? Ability to keep hips facing forward and rotate them. |
|
|
|
Post by mrjvi on Dec 19, 2018 20:21:35 GMT -6
These help but I've always felt it was a bit vague as well. The fastest, best RB I ever had could barely stretch his hands past his shins and seemed stiff as a 2 by 4. Super strong, though. Maybe he had "hips" and I didn't know it. It was a while ago.
|
|
|
|
Post by pistolwhipped on Dec 19, 2018 21:53:02 GMT -6
Shakira
|
|
|
|
Post by silkyice on Dec 20, 2018 7:00:39 GMT -6
While I will never in any world with any possibility, in any lifetime, be confused for a fitness or athletic trainer, but I know that straight line speed is not same thing as athleticism. Think winning a fight in a phone booth or playing defense in basketball. In neither case, is the 40 yd dash or the bench the most important. Power cleans and squats. Edelman, Welker. I was just about to agree with you and do understand your point. But you picked a bad example. Bench press is probably pretty important in a fight in phone booth. I’m certainly taking the guy who benches 400 over the guy who benches 200 in a phone booth fight. |
|
|
|
Post by newhope on Dec 20, 2018 7:07:52 GMT -6
It's probably like that definition of pornography--I can't explain it, but I know it when I see it
|
|
|
|
Post by CS on Dec 20, 2018 8:38:28 GMT -6
I was just about to agree with you and do understand your point. But you picked a bad example. Bench press is probably pretty important in a fight in phone booth. I’m certainly taking the guy who benches 400 over the guy who benches 200 in a phone booth fight. if you can't hit the opponent, can't wind up or if the other benches 500 lbs.you lose.And you probably need to avoid being hit. Bench does squat. Why are we fighting in a phone booth? Are we too stupid to open the door and fight like normal people? Why are we fighting in the first place? Did you speak poorly of my wife or have we both had one too many and it's a drunken brawl? If we were truly fighting in a phone booth would squats help? Did I go in there trying to change into my Superman suit and some guy followed me in there trying to take my wallet? If I can squat and power clean a lot are you saying that it would be harder for someone to punch me in the face in a phone booth? |
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Dec 20, 2018 9:10:43 GMT -6
if you can't hit the opponent, can't wind up or if the other benches 500 lbs.you lose.And you probably need to avoid being hit. Bench does squat. Why are we fighting in a phone booth? Are we too stupid to open the door and fight like normal people? Why are we fighting in the first place? Did you speak poorly of my wife or have we both had one too many and it's a drunken brawl? If we were truly fighting in a phone booth would squats help? Did I go in there trying to change into my Superman suit and some guy followed me in there trying to take my wallet? If I can squat and power clean a lot are you saying that it would be harder for someone to punch me in the face in a phone booth? More importantly, where are you going to find a phone booth? |
|
|
|
Post by silkyice on Dec 20, 2018 9:21:00 GMT -6
I was just about to agree with you and do understand your point. But you picked a bad example. Bench press is probably pretty important in a fight in phone booth. I’m certainly taking the guy who benches 400 over the guy who benches 200 in a phone booth fight. if you can't hit the opponent, can't wind up or if the other benches 500 lbs.you lose.And you probably need to avoid being hit. Bench does squat. Can you really not just say "you are right, the phone booth was a poor example."? I mean can we not ever say we are wrong, change our mind, or laugh at ourselves? |
|
|
|
Post by silkyice on Dec 20, 2018 10:53:19 GMT -6
Can you really not just say "you are right, the phone booth was a poor example."? I mean can we not ever say we are wrong, change our mind, or laugh at ourselves? no Its a great example. By your definition, the stongest person in interior play would always win. That simply doesn't happen. Power doesn't determine who wins a fight.power doesn't always indicate the best hitters in baseball.and best hockey player are not the strongest. If I deliver my sorry exercise for a punch before you do, or can can two before you do, my chances to win the fight increase dramatically. If you dodge a punch or two, or I can't land a clean punch, I can't win the fight. This goes back to the hips, the athleticsm if you can coil all the energy into explosive movements..! I guess since I have nothing better to do right now, I will respond. I never said that the strongest person on the line will always win. I never said bench press is most important. Although it is important and matters more to a lineman than it does to other positions. Lineman don’t play in a phone booth. But, the smaller the arena, the more pure strength matters. The larger the arena, the more athleticism matters. Can we agree on that? I’m taking the o lineman vs a db in a phone booth if we can find a phone booth. |
|
|
|
Post by silkyice on Dec 20, 2018 13:01:29 GMT -6
I guess since I have nothing better to do right now, I will respond. I never said that the strongest person on the line will always win. I never said bench press is most important. Although it is important and matters more to a lineman than it does to other positions. Lineman don’t play in a phone booth. But, the smaller the arena, the more pure strength matters. The larger the arena, the more athleticism matters. Can we agree on that? I’m taking the o lineman vs a db in a phone booth if we can find a phone booth. A. Guards and centers play in phone booth.there is a reason they rarely if ever get a clean shot. Explain to me how Alex Gibbs won with smaller offensive line? I bet you none of them won a bench press.how did warren Sapp become a hof? B. No. You have to explain how Wes Welker and his replacement have excelled in a bigger arena? They are not even close to more athletic by your definition of athleticism. Then explain to me how greenery, Clooney, or any other freak ever gets blocked? Lots of space means they should excell way beyond anything we have seen. Understand I am using your wording, definition, of athleticism. C. ...Nm. What are you talking about? Straw man, putting words in my mouth, etc. You said a fight in a phone booth. I was ridiculously just commenting on an actual literal phone booth. That is all. And yet you can’t admit that an actual honest to goodness phone booth wasn’t a great example. It doesn’t matter that it wasn’t a great example. I just thought it was kind of funny. Not that you are wrong in what your actual point is. Not that you are stupid or anything like that. Just that phone booth wasn’t a great example. If I said that your bench press matters in a bench press competition, would you agree with me or talk about Wes Walker? Hahahahahaha |
|
|
|
Post by silkyice on Dec 20, 2018 13:07:34 GMT -6
What are you talking about? Straw man, putting words in my mouth, etc. You said a fight in a phone booth. I was ridiculously just commenting on an actual literal phone booth. That is all. And yet you can’t admit that an actual honest to goodness phone booth wasn’t a great example. It doesn’t matter that it wasn’t a great example. I just thought it was kind of funny. Not that you are wrong in what your actual point is. Not that you are stupid or anything like that. Just that phone booth wasn’t a great example. If I said that your bench press matters in a bench press competition, would you agree with me or talk about Wes Walker? Hahahahahaha that is what I thought. ? ? ? ? ? ? |
|
|
|
Post by bulldogsdc on Jan 2, 2019 8:44:43 GMT -6
I have heard the analogy of "he wants to fight you in a phone booth" in regards to a 2 tight running team.
|
|
