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Post by StraightFlexin on Oct 27, 2018 15:40:29 GMT -6
I’ve always been interested in programs that split their staff into O & D and coach 9-12. Does anyone have any experience in this type of model and could share the pros and cons? Also if you have any resources that you would be willing to share, that would be incredible.
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Post by agap on Oct 27, 2018 17:08:43 GMT -6
We went to it this year. I really like it. When varsity has O Indy, we have D Indy with the 9th/10th grade. Then we switch. During team, 9th and 10th are together and varsity is on a separate field.
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Post by CS on Oct 27, 2018 19:25:11 GMT -6
We did it last year the way agap describes but my HC doesn’t want to coach jr high kids anymore so we got away from it.
Pros-high school staff gets to be around the kids for one more year, better coaching, can attract better coaches to coach jr high because they also coach varsity
Cons- have to have guys that want to coach jr high ball, depending on how you work it out you would have games 3 nights a week(this was us but may not apply), Head Jr high coach gets left doing more because he doesn’t truly have his own staff(again this depends on the way things are laid out)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2018 19:54:03 GMT -6
I’ve always been interested in programs that split their staff into O & D and coach 9-12. Does anyone have any experience in this type of model and could share the pros and cons? Also if you have any resources that you would be willing to share, that would be incredible. Coached at two places that did this. The first split the staff and would divide practice more or less evenly. HC coached the offense so they got a little more time. Freshman team was kept separated out but coached by the same staff. Offensive coaches would coach one side of the ball for half of practice while the defensive coaches would coach the freshman team, then we'd switch. We had one coach "going both ways" as both WR coach and DBs coach, but his role with WRs was limited. For freshman games, we'd simply pick 2 coaches: one to be the HC that week and the other to be coordinator on the other side. It worked pretty well. We would all do our Sunday meeting to watch film together and gameplan in the same room so the staff stayed cordial and united. The other staff had a HC who coached defense and we ran a 3 level program with this structure where all grades 9-12 would do individual together in practice before splitting off with the "freshman HC" (varsity WR coach) and "freshman DC" (varsity DEs coach) since those coaches weren't considered to be needed as much during group and team periods (the OC/QBs coach and DTs coach would fill their roles there, respectively). For freshman games, those 2 coaches, plus myself (freshman OC/OL coach) and one other newb coach would take the freshmen and sometimes the sophomores on a combined 9/10 team. For JV games, the whole staff would bell there coaching the game just like the varsity, minus headsets. Since everyone practiced together and used the same terminology, this was not a problem at all. We had no static freshman or JV roster. At the second place, the coaches would meet separately on Sundays at the same time and the HC would spend almost the whole time with the defensive staff. We had some issues with coaches being cliquey about their side of the ball and pointing fingers at the other side when we struggled and all of the coaches lamented this fact, but the mentality continued. There were still a lot of pros to it. The big ones were that the coaching was overall better because everyone was on the same page with the varsity in terms of both technique and terminology and you didn't have some slappy off the street coaching the freshmen for a year. It also kept the JV and freshman players more engaged and helped build better relationships between the two, because you were coaching them early and showing you cared. The cons were the potential for personal drama/jealousy on staff just making the experience suck. |
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Post by hsrose on Oct 28, 2018 10:36:28 GMT -6
I went with the O/D split the past 3 seasons. This season I went Var/JV. The reason I went O/D was program quality control. Every place I've been it seems that the levels all end up running almost the same thing, getting almost the same training. Almost. I wanted the coaches to be teaching the players the same thing, same verbiage, same calls, all 4 years. We don't work with the Jr High team so that is not an issue.
When I had the O/D split I had a JV head coach that went with the JV all the time, so their Daddy was the same every day.
I found that going the O/D split met my needs for coaching the players. Problems is that there developed the O/D us/them split. Couldn't be helped. The good is that the players were doing the same thing the same way. So when a player went down it was relatively easier to replace him with a younger player because they had been hearing the same things and same techniques. I prefer that structure if I can get the us/them situation worked.
I went with JV/Var this year because that seemed to be the natural split in the coaches this year. It made the games easier because there was a JV staff. But they deviated so far from our core offense that I am not comfortable with that at all. And there was still the O/D split, at least at the varsity level. And I had a coach that had issues past week 3 making it to practice on time. Which meant the receivers and DB's had to be covered by someone else. We ran the techniques and drills, but were not that good with the coverages/concepts and such.
I will be going back to the O/D structure next year. I feel more comfortable with that structure, with the players getting the same info from the same coach, and the coaches getting much better at their area. Will I have the coaches is the question. I have a total of 10 coaches this year, and will likely be down to 6 by the time we get to next season. If that happens we'll be JV/Var.
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Post by lilbuck1103 on Oct 28, 2018 14:29:36 GMT -6
Really interested in this concept. We are a small school, 45 players 9-12, 2 levels of play. We have always had coaches coach an O and D position. Our current model is:
Monday: Offense
Tuesday: Defense
Wednesday: Split
Thursday: Review
I've been intrigued by going the O/D model with coaches. Varsity O for 45 minutes per day, while JV is on D, then switch. Special Teams together for 15-20 minutes a day and call it good. New Model would be:
Monday: O/D, 30 minutes each
Tuesday: Split
Wednesday: Split
Thursday: Split
Any thoughts or feedback on this model?
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Post by coachjm on Oct 28, 2018 15:00:53 GMT -6
We split staff, with two levels of Football.... Junior Varsity is on defense while varsity is on offense. We have one coach from each side run the scout squads for the opposing side. As the HC I stay with the varsity all the time however, I only roam at this point on defense. We feel it is ideal as each coach has consistent language and techniques at their position group for four years. As long as you have enough staff that is competent I believe this is the best model to use.
We tried to split this year to 3 levels and include the MS kids the logistics didn't work out though and we went away from that fairly quickly.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2018 17:31:01 GMT -6
Our staff is split, and were strictly 2 platoon as well im not a fan, but it allows us to focus on each side of the ball a little better
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Post by newhope on Oct 29, 2018 12:13:06 GMT -6
I've done it, but don't favor it. Pro: every kid gets quality and consistent coaching. Con: Team periods, 7 on 7 periods, can get a little difficult to manage depending on the makeup and number on your staff.
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Post by stilltryin on Oct 30, 2018 9:50:19 GMT -6
Our situation is a little different from some of the previous posters in that our freshman team is a separate entity, with their own coaches, so our practices are for grades 10, 11 and 12. In our state, we're a smaller school, so we always have a number of kids going both ways, and every kid (with the possible exception of QBs) practices both ways.
We break the kids down into (roughly) equal numbers: blue shirts (starters and back-ups) and white shirts (mostly scout team and JV players). All our coaches coach one side of the ball, and we do it like this:
Monday Films, lift and run for kids who played in the varsity game that weekend. All other underclassmen go to the JV game. One offensive and one defensive coach handle the JV game: the rest of us critique the film with the kids who played varsity.
Tuesday: Offensive priority first, meaning blue shirts go through offensive indies, group (7 on 7 or "inside") and team, while white shirts are doing the same on defense. Then we flip it for the second half of practice.
Wednesday: Same thing, except it's defensive priority first.
The chief benefit, as others have said, is everybody gets the same coaching, hears the same language, and gets to go against kids of mostly equal ability in indies.
A second benefit, at least for me as a DBs coach, is that on the days we have offensive priority first, if I have a new drill or something new I want to introduce, I can "test drive" it with the white shirts, and tweak it if necessary for when I have the starters.
I haven't seen any tensions between offensive and defensive coaches, as mentioned above, although it's pretty much a given that from year to year we're going to be stronger on one side of the ball (usually defense; this season offense). But that may be more a product of the continuity and closeness on our staff, most of whom played with or for one or more of their colleagues. Hard for me to imagine a better situation in that regard.
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Post by ccscoach on Nov 4, 2018 11:24:06 GMT -6
We split staff, with two levels of Football.... Junior Varsity is on defense while varsity is on offense. We have one coach from each side run the scout squads for the opposing side. As the HC I stay with the varsity all the time however, I only roam at this point on defense. We feel it is ideal as each coach has consistent language and techniques at their position group for four years. As long as you have enough staff that is competent I believe this is the best model to use. We tried to split this year to 3 levels and include the MS kids the logistics didn't work out though and we went away from that fairly quickly. Coach can you post a typical practice schedule for the week? |
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Post by mholst40 on Nov 4, 2018 13:27:30 GMT -6
Our staff is split at Varsity and JV like this:
QB
WR (JV OC)
RB
OL
DL
LB (JV HC and DC)
Saf
CB
When we do a Varsity defensive day, our JV does offense and goes to individual drills with those coaches. During group and team time our JV OC (also V WR coach) will go with the JV team as will our Varsity OL coach. Our other coaches help run a scout team for Varsity.
On a Varsity offensive day, our JV HC/DC will go with the JV team. If the defensive scheme is similar to our opponent, the JV defense will rotate in on our scout team.
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Post by coachjm on Nov 4, 2018 18:31:15 GMT -6
We split staff, with two levels of Football.... Junior Varsity is on defense while varsity is on offense. We have one coach from each side run the scout squads for the opposing side. As the HC I stay with the varsity all the time however, I only roam at this point on defense. We feel it is ideal as each coach has consistent language and techniques at their position group for four years. As long as you have enough staff that is competent I believe this is the best model to use. We tried to split this year to 3 levels and include the MS kids the logistics didn't work out though and we went away from that fairly quickly. Coach can you post a typical practice schedule for the week? Monday: Varsity watches film, JV starts on offense Do Special Teams together, followed by 10 minutes of tackling fundamentals together JV goes offense, Varsity goes defense Tuesday Varsity goes and does offense with two group periods and team, JV lifts Do Special Teams together, followed by 10 minutes of tackling fundamentals and Power hour together Varsity runs "long defensive set", JV does "long offensive set" JV does brief defense, Varsity lifts (if not in lifting class) Wednesday Special Teams together, tackling fundamentals together Varsity does "long offensive set", JV does long defensive set JV does short offensive set, Varsity does short defensive set. Thursday JV plays, Varsity does hour "run through" practice Long set offense is-3 perids of indy/fundamental periods, 1 period of double teams, 1 period of group pass/trap, 1 period of prim run, Team Long of defense is 3 of indy/fundamentals, 1 inside run/route rec, 2 of prim run, 2 of 7 on 7, 2 of team. Short periods is less periods of same drills. Certain weeks we will emphasize specific teams ie we may do two of 7 on 7 and no inside run vs. a spread team. |
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Post by ccscoach on Nov 5, 2018 5:37:03 GMT -6
This makes a ton of sense to me how long are your periods 5 minute blocks?
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Post by lilbuck1103 on Nov 5, 2018 19:57:22 GMT -6
Coaches,
Looking at this still, we have around 45 players. With the split model, we'd be looking at 20-22ish per group.
Below is my biggest worry...
How do you make this work and get a decent scout / 7 on 7 look for your defense? It seems like it could get tough to have bodies to fill those roles, etc. based on positional depth?
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Post by gdf on Nov 6, 2018 19:46:23 GMT -6
Coach can you post a typical practice schedule for the week? Monday: Varsity watches film, JV starts on offense Do Special Teams together, followed by 10 minutes of tackling fundamentals together JV goes offense, Varsity goes defense Tuesday Varsity goes and does offense with two group periods and team, JV lifts Do Special Teams together, followed by 10 minutes of tackling fundamentals and Power hour together Varsity runs "long defensive set", JV does "long offensive set" JV does brief defense, Varsity lifts (if not in lifting class) Wednesday Special Teams together, tackling fundamentals together Varsity does "long offensive set", JV does long defensive set JV does short offensive set, Varsity does short defensive set. Thursday JV plays, Varsity does hour "run through" practice Long set offense is-3 perids of indy/fundamental periods, 1 period of double teams, 1 period of group pass/trap, 1 period of prim run, Team Long of defense is 3 of indy/fundamentals, 1 inside run/route rec, 2 of prim run, 2 of 7 on 7, 2 of team. Short periods is less periods of same drills. Certain weeks we will emphasize specific teams ie we may do two of 7 on 7 and no inside run vs. a spread team. Coach, our of curiosity how do you divide coaches up? For example, DB coach is Varsity DC, LB coach is JV DC, etc. Also, how many/which coaches travel to the JV games? |
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CoachH
Sophomore Member
Posts: 164
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Post by CoachH on Nov 13, 2018 4:29:09 GMT -6
Here's what we did this year...
We split the staff as follows:
Head Coach: Outside Receivers (OC)
2: OL/Tight Ends
3: Running Backs / Slot Receivers
4: Quarterbacks
5: Defensive Line (JV D)
6: Outside Linebackers (JV O)
7: Inside Linebackers (Special Teams)
8: Safeties (DC)
9: Corners (Special Teams)
We were going to have a swing guy coach both O/D, but didn't. The OLB coach is a former offensive guy and knows the system so was an easy transition for JV games.
Practice wise we were:
55 Minutes Offense / 55 Minutes Defense / 30 Special Teams Tuesday/Wednesday and a tad shorter (45/45/25) on Mondays. We separated practice by jersey colors JV was one color, Varsity another. We aren't a team that tackles live very much if at all and very rarely had live contact in team drills. A lot of the time we were using shields and mainly using the scout team for alignment. Scout team became pretty competitive though and got a lot better, which showed up on Saturdays for JV games.
Varsity lifted Monday/Wednesday in season - JV was Tuesday/Thursday
Varsity Film Tuesday/Thursday - JV Monday/Wednesday
I loved it - we were constantly coaching and it was coaching the same stuff over and over again. I felt the kids got a lot a better and the amount of reps they were able to get was outstanding. In a 10 minute period defensively (We had two JV offensive huddles running plays) we had 20-25 plays ran at us consistently.
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Post by spark58 on Nov 13, 2018 10:52:45 GMT -6
Coaches, Looking at this still, we have around 45 players. With the split model, we'd be looking at 20-22ish per group. Below is my biggest worry... How do you make this work and get a decent scout / 7 on 7 look for your defense? It seems like it could get tough to have bodies to fill those roles, etc. based on positional depth? We are in the same boat as you. 22 on varsity and 25 on jv. I would love to only coach one side of the ball. That's how we do games anyway. I only do D. One coach has the switchable headset and coaches o-line and inside backers. We would get jv for 7 on 7 and at the end of team to fill in the scout teams. Otherwise we did a lot of half line work and we used trash cans for takles. I jocked about building handle bars on the stand ups so the center could carry two (for guards) around with him. Yes it sucked Can't let it stop you |
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Post by gdf on Apr 7, 2019 9:22:09 GMT -6
We will be going with a split staff coaching model. Our 9th grade will practice on their own. JV/Varsity will share coaches. We will have around 40-45 kids on varsity, and 25+ on JV.When JV is on O, Varsity will practice D. Please note that when our JV is on O, they will be practicing against the JV NOT against the varsity.
I think that I've got things pretty well outlined so practices will go smoothly. One area that I'd like to get the thoughts of others on is how you are scripting your team sessions.
For example, your TE coach will be our JV OC, and our LB coach is our JV DC. Our RB coach is the Varsity OC, and I'm the DB/Varsity HC & DC. I will be able to stay with Varsity on O as well. Obviously for Varsity O, the Varsity OC will script the session and I'll script the D sessions. For JV- Do you have them use the same script? Do you have the JV DC/OC's create their own? Do they modify what the Varsity is using?
I'm looking for the most efficient/best way of coordinating our efforts and appreciate your input. Thanks!
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Post by canesfan on Apr 7, 2019 19:21:22 GMT -6
Ours is pretty well split, though everyone has a secondary role. KYCoach probably has the biggest crossover from both sides on our staff as he has our WRs and CBs. The others are primarily one way but help with a position group on the other side.
I coach wherever. I’m the HC so whatever is needed. This year I’m coaching RBs, I hate offense but don’t mind RBs. I’ll still Coach our DBs and call our defense.
I’ve only coached on split staffs. Haven’t been lucky enough to have a full time JV or Frosh staff. Even if we did I think I’d prefer to split and have offensive coaches and defensive coaches.
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Post by MICoach on Apr 9, 2019 7:03:15 GMT -6
I changed schools and I know our staff at my new school is mostly split - secondary, linebackers, running backs, and receivers all have coaches that go 9-12. The rest is filled in with two way coaches that stay with their particular team (fresh/jv/varsity).
My old school split the staff almost entirely - coaches had the following roles:
OL (9-12)
RB (9-12)
WR (9-12)
QB - varsity only, also OC
DL (9-12)
ILB (9-12) - varsity DC
OLB (9-12)
DB (9-12)
On top of that we had a lower levels staff.
9-10 HC - also varsity ST
9-10 OC - handled lower level QBs and a lot of the time WRs (their position coaches would be late due to work)
9-10 DC - helped with varsity ILBs
The way we did it we would split the practice in half - first hour-ish varsity on defense, Frosh/JV on offense then flip flop at the halfway point.
We were from some of the above posters however, as the majority of the time our scout teams were still mostly made from the same level. Varsity back ups would be scout for starters; on offense we would spot sub our back ups and on defense they would just whole sale switch to second string after a certain amount of reps.
Starting freshman team would be scout for JV and vice versa.
During group periods varsity always had the prerogative to pull JV groups for scout - we would do this often for inside run on both sides of the ball and skelly on varsity. The JV guys would get amped about it a lot of the time and we got better reps than if we used varsity back ups a lot of time, but I don't think that would have been the case if they were ALWAYS scouts for the varsity.
We never had any sort of rivalry between sides of the ball besides the O vs. D golf game once a year. I'd say we all see the work each other is doing and appreciate it - O will thank the D for bailing them out sometimes and D will thank the O for winning a 45-44 game from time to time. We're always quick to compliment each others position groups when they're doing well.
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choprip
Sophomore Member
Posts: 125 
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Post by choprip on Dec 27, 2019 12:19:25 GMT -6
For those of you using varsity coaches to coach a lower level as well, how do you account for the day difference in schedule? i.e. JV playing games on a different day than varsity? Will you have a day where JV practices but varsity doesn’t? Or do they just practice one less day in the week?
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Post by agap on Dec 27, 2019 13:14:08 GMT -6
A school I used to coach at had 9th/JV practice on Fridays after school before the varsity game, but the other schools I coached at didn't do that.
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Post by CS on Dec 27, 2019 13:59:54 GMT -6
For those of you using varsity coaches to coach a lower level as well, how do you account for the day difference in schedule? i.e. JV playing games on a different day than varsity? Will you have a day where JV practices but varsity doesn’t? Or do they just practice one less day in the week? Depends on what you mean by JV. For my state that is Sophomores and Juniors that don’t get to play and it’s on Monday which is a shorter practice day for that reason. Our jr high team plays on Thursday which is our walk through day so it wasn’t a big deal |
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choprip
Sophomore Member
Posts: 125
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Post by choprip on Dec 27, 2019 14:14:58 GMT -6
For those of you using varsity coaches to coach a lower level as well, how do you account for the day difference in schedule? i.e. JV playing games on a different day than varsity? Will you have a day where JV practices but varsity doesn’t? Or do they just practice one less day in the week? Depends on what you mean by JV. For my state that is Sophomores and Juniors that don’t get to play and it’s on Monday which is a shorter practice day for that reason. Our jr high team plays on Thursday which is our walk through day so it wasn’t a big deal Our freshmen and JV teams play on Thursdays. So if we don’t practice the JVs on varsity game day or Saturday, they’ll only get in 3 days of practice...which I don’t necessarily hate, as long as they’re doing other things like film and lifting. |
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Post by coachscdub on Dec 27, 2019 23:23:31 GMT -6
Our school does this somewhat.
Varsity and JV practice together, Frosh practices by themselves earlier in the day.
Defense gets a priority period so any two way players would go over with the Defense all the remaining Offensive players will do indy work or group work of some sort. Then they flip and Offense gets a priority period for the two way guys, D does Indy/Group. Special teams is the first thing of practice, then O/D emphasis, Team time, conditioning, and whatever else.
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Post by vicvinegar on Dec 28, 2019 2:15:30 GMT -6
I'm honestly a little confused, are you talking about a two platoon team with an offensive staff & a defensive staff and the platoons practice separately? That's the way the most of the programs I have been apart of have always done it. Freshmen are separated (some separate freshmen after individuals, while others have kept freshmen completely separate), and 10-12 are together. Offense has half of the field and defensive has the other half. We come together for things like 7 on 7, inside run, team, and special teams. With the exception of using the the opposite JV as scout team, everything else is separated. If you want to see a practice plan, I would be happy to share one, just DM me.
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Post by bmcclintic on Dec 28, 2019 5:33:20 GMT -6
Coach Vicvinegar,
The thread is discussing splitting the staff for programs that don't have the numbers to two platoon,for example our Varsity had 20 players and our JV had 18 (We are a school of 270 9-12). The idea is your staff becomes specialized in specific area so that teaching is consistent from Varsity down to JV. The kids get more individualized attention to their position and are not fighting for reps with a mix of jv and varsity kids together. For example, on Monday I have the JV kids working strictly on defense while the Varsity kids are working offense...then on Tuesday the kids flip.
Hope this helps clear it up,
Bob
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Post by canesfan on Dec 28, 2019 10:52:13 GMT -6
Man I’d love to be able to split up our JV from our varsity, let alone be able to practice our freshmen separate.
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Post by bjohnson on Dec 28, 2019 13:11:10 GMT -6
We do not platoon our players, everyone practices both sides of the ball. We do have split staffs so we can focus on one side of the ball. Weekends are more productive for coaches since they have a central focus. If you have the staff size and experience to split I feel like it's extremely beneficial. The coaching staff will have to have confidence and trust their counterparts. If they do not this will cause major problems within the staff. I've been blessed to be apart of strong, experienced staff that can handle being split, we've been together for several years.
In the past we would have the offensive coaches coach the freshman while the defensive coaches coached the varsity. Midway through practice we would switch. This worked well at first but problems did naturally occur. As the season progressed the freshman lost practice time. They played on Monday nights so they only practiced 3 days a week (T,W,Th). Coaches would not coach the freshman as hard since their minds where still on varsity issues. The coaches would not spend time game planning for the freshman. Special teams got lost in the shuffle. We are an experienced staff but we still had issues. Varisity came first so the freshman suffured. We now have a seperate freshman staff. They have a coaching staff that makes them the priority which is better for everyone involved.
During varsity practice the opposite side coaches will assist with drills and run scout during group and team sessions.
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