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Post by 19delta on Oct 19, 2018 16:53:13 GMT -6
But the coaches (at least college coaches) really don't care about the team, either. How many times does a coach pull up stakes to take a better paying or higher profile job? Coaches are concerned about the team as long as they are part of the team. They're not sitting out games waiting on the next opportunity. This isn't about moving from team to team--it's about not finishing the season. There are plenty of coaches who leave before the season. For example...guys leave before a bowl game. Regardless... What it comes down to for me is that the kind of kid who has the juice to do something like this is at the absolute apogee of his value. He may never be worth more again so I'm not going to cast dispersions on him for cashing out.
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Post by 19delta on Oct 19, 2018 16:57:23 GMT -6
Actually, it is statistically more likely that a HS kid receive a scholarship offer than it is for a college kid to be drafted. Also, I will have to categorically disagree with you if you don't think that Nick Bosa is absolutely "The Man" in Columbus Ohio, and on a far far taller pedestal than any HS great is in his area. The players spend a great deal more time together with each other at the College level than their HS level, and my personal experience seems to be that the bonds between college teamates are stronger than HS. Again, the key here is that Bosa is saying in October "Nope, shuttin it down" when his team is a favorite to be in the college football playoff. There's a big difference between Bosa who is guaranteed millions compared to a HS kid whose career will most likely end when his college career is over. .09% of high school seniors make the NFL. Just think about that. If a HS kid sits out then he's getting bad advice. The odds of him regretting it 10 years later is extremely high. I generally agree with what you have said here. Your post makes me think about what happened to Maurice Clarett. Bad advice almost ruined that kid's life.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 19, 2018 19:31:08 GMT -6
Again, the key here is that Bosa is saying in October "Nope, shuttin it down" when his team is a favorite to be in the college football playoff. Do you think Bosa is wrong for doing so? Or that Bosa's decision to shut it down reflects poorly on his character? It is a complex question. So many factors. He was voted captain by his team. His team that is in the hunt for the national championship. A hunt that wouldn't conclude until January 2019. A hunt in which he would be a tremendous asset for his team. So, since he has a reasonable expectation that he will be paid heavily this Summer, none of that matters? That is hard for me to accept. Does it matter that he is injured? What if he were not injured, but just said "you know what, I don't have anything left to prove" and hung it up. What if the team was not in the playoff hunt, but rather was well on its way to a solid Sun Bowl birth versus another middle of the pack ACC club? Does that change my opinion? I don't really know. If a wife/husband got approached by someone with more money than their spouse, is it ok to say "well sure, we made a commitment here, BUT man that is bank!" If you think about it, it isn't all that different. It is foregoing a commitment because it may hinder a future financial windfall.
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Post by 19delta on Oct 19, 2018 21:34:38 GMT -6
Do you think Bosa is wrong for doing so? Or that Bosa's decision to shut it down reflects poorly on his character? It is a complex question. So many factors. He was voted captain by his team. His team that is in the hunt for the national championship. A hunt that wouldn't conclude until January 2019. A hunt in which he would be a tremendous asset for his team. So, since he has a reasonable expectation that he will be paid heavily this Summer, none of that matters? That is hard for me to accept. Does it matter that he is injured? What if he were not injured, but just said "you know what, I don't have anything left to prove" and hung it up. What if the team was not in the playoff hunt, but rather was well on its way to a solid Sun Bowl birth versus another middle of the pack ACC club? Does that change my opinion? I don't really know. If a wife/husband got approached by someone with more money than their spouse, is it ok to say "well sure, we made a commitment here, BUT man that is bank!" If you think about it, it isn't all that different. It is foregoing a commitment because it may hinder a future financial windfall. The difference is that in a marriage, both the husband and the wife have equal obligations to each other. Not the case in the college coach-player relationship. The player has zero leverage for the most part. So, when the player can get some leverage, it should be exploited.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 20, 2018 6:07:48 GMT -6
It is a complex question. So many factors. He was voted captain by his team. His team that is in the hunt for the national championship. A hunt that wouldn't conclude until January 2019. A hunt in which he would be a tremendous asset for his team. So, since he has a reasonable expectation that he will be paid heavily this Summer, none of that matters? That is hard for me to accept. Does it matter that he is injured? What if he were not injured, but just said "you know what, I don't have anything left to prove" and hung it up. What if the team was not in the playoff hunt, but rather was well on its way to a solid Sun Bowl birth versus another middle of the pack ACC club? Does that change my opinion? I don't really know. If a wife/husband got approached by someone with more money than their spouse, is it ok to say "well sure, we made a commitment here, BUT man that is bank!" If you think about it, it isn't all that different. It is foregoing a commitment because it may hinder a future financial windfall. The difference is that in a marriage, both the husband and the wife have equal obligations to each other. Not the case in the college coach-player relationship. The player has zero leverage for the most part. So, when the player can get some leverage, it should be exploited. What leverage? He is bailing on the 100+ teammates that voted him captain. Not running a power play against his coach.
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Post by 19delta on Oct 20, 2018 11:14:16 GMT -6
The difference is that in a marriage, both the husband and the wife have equal obligations to each other. Not the case in the college coach-player relationship. The player has zero leverage for the most part. So, when the player can get some leverage, it should be exploited. What leverage? He is bailing on the 100+ teammates that voted him captain. Not running a power play against his coach. He isn't running a power play. But his value may never be as high as it is now.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 20, 2018 11:16:08 GMT -6
What leverage? He is bailing on the 100+ teammates that voted him captain. Not running a power play against his coach. He isn't running a power play. But his value may never be as high as it is now. Value to himself AND to the 100+ teammates trying to win the 2018-2019 College Football Playoff Championship. I was confused by your use of the word leverage. He isn't using any leverage here, he is simply saying "sorry guys, I know we have been working for this for 3 years, but I gotta make sure I get mine"
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Post by 19delta on Oct 20, 2018 11:21:48 GMT -6
He isn't running a power play. But his value may never be as high as it is now. Value to himself AND to the 100+ teammates trying to win the 2018-2019 College Football Playoff Championship. I was confused by your use of the word leverage. He isn't using any leverage here, he is simply saying "sorry guys, I know we have been working for this for 3 years, but I gotta make sure I get mine" And if he gets hurt like that Notre Dame kid a couple years ago? The leverage comes from his ability to do this and not hurt his NFL stock.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 20, 2018 11:30:33 GMT -6
Value to himself AND to the 100+ teammates trying to win the 2018-2019 College Football Playoff Championship. I was confused by your use of the word leverage. He isn't using any leverage here, he is simply saying "sorry guys, I know we have been working for this for 3 years, but I gotta make sure I get mine" And if he gets hurt like that Notre Dame kid a couple years ago? The leverage comes from his ability to do this and not hurt his NFL stock. And if he gets in a car wreck ? I get the idea (still don't think leverage is the correct word, as his decision isn't being used to force impact anything else to do something of his liking). I am just pointing out his decision for what it is. Leaving his teammates behind to protect his own interests.
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Post by 19delta on Oct 20, 2018 12:23:07 GMT -6
And if he gets hurt like that Notre Dame kid a couple years ago? The leverage comes from his ability to do this and not hurt his NFL stock. And if he gets in a car wreck ? I am just pointing out his decision for what it is. Leaving his teammates behind to protect his own interests. Yes. Agreed. That is precisely what he is doing. And, in this particular case, I don't have a problem with him doing it. In regards to your point about Bosa getting hurt in a car wreck...yes, that could happen. So Bosa needs to carefully consider EVERYTHING he does between now and to the point where he is actually signing an NFL contract.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 20, 2018 13:18:01 GMT -6
And if he gets in a car wreck ? I am just pointing out his decision for what it is. Leaving his teammates behind to protect his own interests. Yes. Agreed. That is precisely what he is doing. And, in this particular case, I don't have a problem with him doing it. In regards to your point about Bosa getting hurt in a car wreck...yes, that could happen. So Bosa needs to carefully consider EVERYTHING he does between now and to the point where he is actually signing an NFL contract. But to the wife/husband arrangement. That would be the same. One would be leaving the other hind to protect/improve their own interests. A kid who quits HS football in the middle of the year to practice basketball (his better sport) would be leaving his teammates behind to protect/improve his own particular interest.
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Post by fantom on Oct 20, 2018 13:32:56 GMT -6
Yes. Agreed. That is precisely what he is doing. And, in this particular case, I don't have a problem with him doing it. In regards to your point about Bosa getting hurt in a car wreck...yes, that could happen. So Bosa needs to carefully consider EVERYTHING he does between now and to the point where he is actually signing an NFL contract. But to the wife/husband arrangement. That would be the same. One would be leaving the other hind to protect/improve their own interests. A kid who quits HS football in the middle of the year to practice basketball (his better sport) would be leaving his teammates behind to protect/improve his own particular interest. . The difference is that a college athletic scholarship is a business deal. For most players that means a free education. For a chosen few it's a chance to make a lot of money. The school gets the players services and will be sure to get all that they can out of players. In Bosa's case that will include a big part in Meyer's recruiting spiel.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 20, 2018 14:04:53 GMT -6
But to the wife/husband arrangement. That would be the same. One would be leaving the other hind to protect/improve their own interests. A kid who quits HS football in the middle of the year to practice basketball (his better sport) would be leaving his teammates behind to protect/improve his own particular interest. . The difference is that a college athletic scholarship is a business deal. For most players that means a free education. For a chosen few it's a chance to make a lot of money. The school gets the players services and will be sure to get all that they can out of players. In Bosa's case that will include a big part in Meyer's recruiting spiel. But the two scenarios I just typed could be considered "business deals" The kid in my scenario might be being recruited/offered for basketball. What if Iverson would have decided "eh, guys, Basketball is more my jam...peace out" Does Bethel still win their title? Maybe. Maybe not.
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Post by fantom on Oct 20, 2018 14:11:31 GMT -6
. The difference is that a college athletic scholarship is a business deal. For most players that means a free education. For a chosen few it's a chance to make a lot of money. The school gets the players services and will be sure to get all that they can out of players. In Bosa's case that will include a big part in Meyer's recruiting spiel. But the two scenarios I just typed could be considered "business deals" The kid in my scenario might be being recruited/offered for basketball. What if Iverson would have decided "eh, guys, Basketball is more my jam...peace out" Does Bethel still win their title? Maybe. Maybe not. . They wouldn't have finished .500. You're still comparing an injured player with a healthy one.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 20, 2018 14:26:17 GMT -6
But the two scenarios I just typed could be considered "business deals" The kid in my scenario might be being recruited/offered for basketball. What if Iverson would have decided "eh, guys, Basketball is more my jam...peace out" Does Bethel still win their title? Maybe. Maybe not. . They wouldn't have finished .500. You're still comparing an injured player with a healthy one. But nobody is saying Bosa should be playing now. The comparison is to a healthy (in December) Bosa, playing in the CFP semifinal and championship game vs Bosa shutting it down now in Mid October because of "what could be". That "what could be" comparison is an apples to apples one, as Iverson very easily could have had a knee injury that Jr season that kept him from playing at Georgetown. Right? And everyone knew as Sophomore he was legit. Now, Iverson is a somewhat special case, in that he actual DID sit out his Sr. Year in all sports. It just wasn't by choice.
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Post by fantom on Oct 20, 2018 14:37:20 GMT -6
. They wouldn't have finished .500. You're still comparing an injured player with a healthy one. But nobody is saying Bosa should be playing now. The comparison is to a healthy (in December) Bosa, playing in the CFP semifinal and championship game vs Bosa shutting it down now in Mid October because of "what could be". That "what could be" comparison is an apples to apples one, as Iverson very easily could have had a knee injury that Jr season that kept him from playing at Georgetown. Right? And everyone knew as Sophomore he was legit. Now, Iverson is a somewhat special case, in that he actual DID sit out his Sr. Year in all sports. It just wasn't by choice. . Before he did there was talk that he'd sit out football.
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Post by jgordon1 on Oct 20, 2018 15:47:47 GMT -6
we had a kid not play football his senior year because he was accepted to the naval academy for football. he is on the cheer squad this year....No seriously
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Post by 19delta on Oct 20, 2018 16:12:31 GMT -6
Yes. Agreed. That is precisely what he is doing. And, in this particular case, I don't have a problem with him doing it. In regards to your point about Bosa getting hurt in a car wreck...yes, that could happen. So Bosa needs to carefully consider EVERYTHING he does between now and to the point where he is actually signing an NFL contract. But to the wife/husband arrangement. That would be the same. One would be leaving the other hind to protect/improve their own interests. A kid who quits HS football in the middle of the year to practice basketball (his better sport) would be leaving his teammates behind to protect/improve his own particular interest. Let's focus here and not be ridiculous. We aren't talking about some floozy leaving her hardworking, sad sack husband for a guy with a nice sports car or bigger dong. That's not what this is. In Bosa's case, this is wealth...generational wealth. But wealth that, nonetheless, could be fleeting if something bad were to happen. My opinion in this case is based on the assumption that Bosa has solid, credible advice that taking the rest of the season off won't hurt what must be an amazingly high projected draft position. In other words, if his goal is to be a Top 5 NFL draft pick and he has already secured that reality, there isn't any practical (however "practical" may be defined) reason for him to play for free any more and risk what he has acheived. To your second point about a HS basketball player quitting the football team to practice his basketball skills...that kid is NOT guaranteed a professional sports contract that may ultimately be worth tens, if not hundreds, of millions of dollars.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 20, 2018 16:28:16 GMT -6
But to the wife/husband arrangement. That would be the same. One would be leaving the other hind to protect/improve their own interests. A kid who quits HS football in the middle of the year to practice basketball (his better sport) would be leaving his teammates behind to protect/improve his own particular interest. Let's focus here and not be ridiculous. We aren't talking about about some floozy leaving her hardworking, sad sack husband for a guy with a nice sports car or bigger dong. That's not what this is. In Bosa's case, this is wealth...generational wealth. But wealth that, nonetheless, could be fleeting if something bad were to happen. My opinion in this case is based on the assumption that Bosa has solid, credible advice that taking the rest of the season off won't hurt what must be an amazingly high projected draft position. In other words, if his goal is to be a Top 5 NFL draft pick and he has already secured that reality, there isn't any practical (however "practical" may be defined) reason for him to play for free any more and risk what he has acheived. So commitment has a price? The old joke with the punchline "we already established what kind of woman you are, now we just need to haggle the price" comes to mind. In all seriousness though, why did you (subconsciously) jump to mental image where you used the word "floozy". I am talking about an actual serious decision for a woman to leave one man because another man has more money. Just that idea brought out your choice of words, and yet is Bosa doing much different? You used the phrase "play for free". Lets say he was getting $2,000 a month? Now that he isn't playing for free, do you think that would change things? No, obviously not because of the dollar value difference. I am not saying that what he is doing would be considered "wrong". However, it surely throws a monkey wrench in the phrases coaches like to throw around when talking about the benefits of athletics. Especially football in the face of the mounting evidence involving "you know what". It is a complicated situation for me, that much is certain.
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Post by fantom on Oct 20, 2018 16:35:58 GMT -6
Let's focus here and not be ridiculous. We aren't talking about about some floozy leaving her hardworking, sad sack husband for a guy with a nice sports car or bigger dong. That's not what Ithis is. In Bosa's case, this is wealth...generational wealth. But wealth that, nonetheless, could be fleeting if something bad were to happen. My opinion in this case is based on the assumption that Bosa has solid, credible advice that taking the rest of the season off won't hurt what must be an amazingly high projected draft position. In other words, if his goal is to be a Top 5 NFL draft pick and he has already secured that reality, there isn't any practical (however "practical" may be defined) reason for him to play for free any more and risk what he has acheived. So commitment has a price? The old joke with the punchline "we already established what kind of woman you are, now we just need to haggle the price" comes to mind. In all seriousness though, why did you (subconsciously) jump to mental image where you used the word "floozy". I am talking about an actual serious decision for a woman to leave one man because another man has more money. Just that idea brought out your choice of words, and yet is Bosa doing much different? You used the phrase "play for free". Lets say he was getting $2,000 a month? Now that he isn't playing for free, do you think that would change things? No, obviously not because of the dollar value difference. I am not saying that what he is doing would be considered "wrong". However, it surely throws a monkey wrench in the phrases coaches like to throw around when talking about the benefits of athletics. Especially football in the face of the mounting evidence involving "you know what". It is a complicated situation for me, that much is certain. . If he was cleared now and shut down it would be a lot different from coming back in December.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 20, 2018 16:53:42 GMT -6
So commitment has a price? The old joke with the punchline "we already established what kind of woman you are, now we just need to haggle the price" comes to mind. In all seriousness though, why did you (subconsciously) jump to mental image where you used the word "floozy". I am talking about an actual serious decision for a woman to leave one man because another man has more money. Just that idea brought out your choice of words, and yet is Bosa doing much different? You used the phrase "play for free". Lets say he was getting $2,000 a month? Now that he isn't playing for free, do you think that would change things? No, obviously not because of the dollar value difference. I am not saying that what he is doing would be considered "wrong". However, it surely throws a monkey wrench in the phrases coaches like to throw around when talking about the benefits of athletics. Especially football in the face of the mounting evidence involving "you know what". It is a complicated situation for me, that much is certain. . If he was cleared now and shut down it would be a lot different from coming back in December. Why though? Doesn't cleared mean cleared? If he were cleared in December wouldn't he face the same potential risk to re-injure as he would if he were cleared now and played against Purdue tonight? To be clear, I am not saying people should throw stones at Bosa. I am simply saying this is just a complex situation, for me anyway. Now, maybe OSU loses to Michigan in a few weeks, and it doesn't matter because their December/January games become "meaningless" relative to how the sports society now few games. And I am surprised I have this type of opinion, because I am not really a fan of the CFP. But where it gets sticky for me is there are 100+other guys who have been working hard for years to be a part of a championship team, but now because I got potentially a 15- 18 million dollar signing bonus (not sure if that is generational wealth, but it is still a nice chunk of change) with a potential total contract around 20-25 million for 4 years ..well, bye guys.
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Post by 19delta on Oct 20, 2018 18:24:17 GMT -6
Let's focus here and not be ridiculous. We aren't talking about about some floozy leaving her hardworking, sad sack husband for a guy with a nice sports car or bigger dong. That's not what this is. In Bosa's case, this is wealth...generational wealth. But wealth that, nonetheless, could be fleeting if something bad were to happen. My opinion in this case is based on the assumption that Bosa has solid, credible advice that taking the rest of the season off won't hurt what must be an amazingly high projected draft position. In other words, if his goal is to be a Top 5 NFL draft pick and he has already secured that reality, there isn't any practical (however "practical" may be defined) reason for him to play for free any more and risk what he has acheived. So commitment has a price? The old joke with the punchline "we already established what kind of woman you are, now we just need to haggle the price" comes to mind. In all seriousness though, why did you (subconsciously) jump to mental image where you used the word "floozy". I am talking about an actual serious decision for a woman to leave one man because another man has more money. Just that idea brought out your choice of words, and yet is Bosa doing much different? You used the phrase "play for free". Lets say he was getting $2,000 a month? Now that he isn't playing for free, do you think that would change things? No, obviously not because of the dollar value difference. I am not saying that what he is doing would be considered "wrong". However, it surely throws a monkey wrench in the phrases coaches like to throw around when talking about the benefits of athletics. Especially football in the face of the mounting evidence involving "you know what". It is a complicated situation for me, that much is certain. Dude...I have already said, in numerous posts, that Bosa is acting 100% in his own interests. Why do you seem intent on fighting a straw man? My contention is that, while Bosa might be acting selfishly, IN THIS SPECIFIC SCENARIO, I agree with the player acting that way.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 20, 2018 18:53:51 GMT -6
So commitment has a price? The old joke with the punchline "we already established what kind of woman you are, now we just need to haggle the price" comes to mind. In all seriousness though, why did you (subconsciously) jump to mental image where you used the word "floozy". I am talking about an actual serious decision for a woman to leave one man because another man has more money. Just that idea brought out your choice of words, and yet is Bosa doing much different? You used the phrase "play for free". Lets say he was getting $2,000 a month? Now that he isn't playing for free, do you think that would change things? No, obviously not because of the dollar value difference. I am not saying that what he is doing would be considered "wrong". However, it surely throws a monkey wrench in the phrases coaches like to throw around when talking about the benefits of athletics. Especially football in the face of the mounting evidence involving "you know what". It is a complicated situation for me, that much is certain. Dude...I have already said, in numerous posts, that Bosa is acting 100% in his own interests. Why do you seem intent on fighting a straw man? My contention is that, while Bosa might be acting selfishly, IN THIS SPECIFIC SCENARIO, I agree with the player acting that way. I get that. My point is just that it really kind of muddles up the whole athletic message. I don't know if it is a straw man to simply point out that the concept is the same. You can't be "kind of pregnant" I might do the same as he.. and would probably anguish over the decision.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 20, 2018 20:21:06 GMT -6
I think someone here brought this up in a thread we had back when McCaffrey and Fournette sat out bowl games, I thought it was an interesting thought, so I'll steal it:
"How do you feel if an NFL player sat out the playoff because he didn't want to get hurt before free agency? Would you feel the same way? Would you think that's different? Why?"
I'm not actually prejudging this question, I think its fair to have several different opinions about this.
Its actually really weird the way the lottery winner like rewards around professional athletics affect the way we think about it.
I don't begrudge people from coming into a lot of money, I don't begrudge people from being risk averse when faced with the possibility of missing out on a lot of money.
I do strongly dislike the sort of implied notion here, that if athletic accomplishment isn't closely coupled with a lottery like reward it isn't as meaningful as when it is coupled with that reward
(sort of related, I also strongly dislike the idea that when someone has an athletic accomplishment that isn't followed by the lottery reward, that they've been cheated out of something) My answer, in pretty much every case, is that I support the player doing whatever will result in getting the most money for himself. That would mean in the vast majority of cases, the kid not playing college football at all but rather starting in trade school, become an apprentice at the age of 17-18 as opposed to pursuing the multi disciplinary studies / Human Science / recreation management degree.
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Post by fantom on Oct 20, 2018 20:42:17 GMT -6
Might not matter if Bosa comes back.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 20, 2018 20:51:23 GMT -6
Might not matter if Bosa comes back. Watching the game too. Thought the same thing, but then my mind went to the hypothetical...would it have been worse if he announced it this week...after OSU potentially dropped from CFP contention.
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Post by 19delta on Oct 20, 2018 20:59:52 GMT -6
My answer, in pretty much every case, is that I support the player doing whatever will result in getting the most money for himself. That would mean in the vast majority of cases, the kid not playing college football at all but rather starting in trade school, become an apprentice at the age of 17-18 as opposed to pursuing the multi disciplinary studies / Human Science / recreation management degree. Clearly, I was talking about players such as Bosa. But, as you always seem to need to get the final word and demonstrate what a clever wordsmith you are, congratulations. You got me.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 20, 2018 21:43:57 GMT -6
That would mean in the vast majority of cases, the kid not playing college football at all but rather starting in trade school, become an apprentice at the age of 17-18 as opposed to pursuing the multi disciplinary studies / Human Science / recreation management degree. Clearly, I was talking about players such as Bosa. But, as you always seem to need to get the final word and demonstrate what a clever wordsmith you are, congratulations. You got me. Delta, not trying to "get you" at all. Heck, half of this is just me trying to work out my own opinion on the subject. Wasn't trying to wordsmith, but I was just pointing how that point of view could be applied to some other situations.
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Post by fballcoachg on Oct 21, 2018 7:05:46 GMT -6
No clue if this will trickle down but here’s a scenario where we put the best interest of the individual in front of the team Good underclassmen player for us last year hurts his knee, player is told he could play in the playoff game but with considerable warning, we held the player out bc we didn’t think one game was worth the increased risk especially bc he was a recruit able kid
We have a lot of kids that play banged up or a few that have really good individual opportunities that collide w our team but we always sit them down and have long term talks. WR with a shoulder that has popped out but is also our best point guard, here’s what playing may mean here’s an alternate plan...exceptional baseball player has a showcase in front of a bunch of college scouts at the same time as our camp, go to the legit showcase that may change your life.
We may be wrong but we believe in these scenarios what’s best for the kid is best for the kid. As an unintended consequence we’ve found that the kids have responded with having a bigger commitment and appreciation of the program. Not comfortable talking about the team and caring about everyone as an individual but then saying if you don’t sacrifice everything for the team you are selfish. Sometimes that just isn’t true, sometimes you can really care about the team but self interest can supersede that.
If a HS position coach wants to be in college and a college program offers them a job at the start of the summer, many would understand and probably encourage them leaving
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Post by 19delta on Oct 21, 2018 9:01:26 GMT -6
Might not matter if Bosa comes back. Sad Urban Meyer = My favorite Urban Meyer 😆
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