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Post by jg78 on Oct 6, 2018 18:13:32 GMT -6
Seems to be a rare thing. Any reasons you think that HC's usually coach O instead of D?
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Post by nicku on Oct 6, 2018 18:38:40 GMT -6
Its actually mostly D in our district, including our HC.
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Post by rsmith627 on Oct 6, 2018 19:01:19 GMT -6
Our HC is defensive minded. The others I have coached under were all O guys though.
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Post by fantom on Oct 6, 2018 20:42:41 GMT -6
Seems to be a rare thing. Any reasons you think that HC's usually coach O instead of D? I've been told that the reason is that offense is what fans see so HCs want to be in charge of that. |
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Post by rsmith627 on Oct 6, 2018 21:59:24 GMT -6
Seems to be a rare thing. Any reasons you think that HC's usually coach O instead of D? I've been told that the reason is that offense is what fans see so HCs want to be in charge of that. With the chit show that some of these threads turn into lately, this comment could be completely nonsensical, or totally real. Don't even know anymore. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 7, 2018 7:41:26 GMT -6
I've been told that the reason is that offense is what fans see so HCs want to be in charge of that. With the chit show that some of these threads turn into lately, this comment could be completely nonsensical, or totally real. Don't even know anymore. I think he is being 100% legit. |
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Post by doitforthekids on Oct 7, 2018 8:04:44 GMT -6
Offensive playcalling controls the game: tempo, going for it on 4th, how much you throw, who gets touches, etc. Therefore it makes sense for the HC to call offensive plays so he can control the game.
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Post by CS on Oct 7, 2018 8:13:48 GMT -6
I have had 3 buddies that are now HCs that are the DCs. Everyone I have worked for however have been the OC.
Coach what you know
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Post by spos21ram on Oct 7, 2018 8:27:18 GMT -6
Our HC is the DC. Never asked him why, but he has been an OC in the past at his other schools.
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Post by stilltryin on Oct 7, 2018 8:28:23 GMT -6
I have had 3 buddies that are now HCs that are the DCs. Everyone I have worked for however have been the OC. Coach what you know Exactly. Our head coach, like the HC before him, came from within the staff. Still coaches linebackers and the defense, same as he did before. As he has said more than once, everybody keeps doing what they were doing, only the titles have changed. |
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Post by fantom on Oct 7, 2018 9:07:25 GMT -6
With the chit show that some of these threads turn into lately, this comment could be completely nonsensical, or totally real. Don't even know anymore. I think he is being 100% legit. I am. |
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Post by carookie on Oct 7, 2018 15:27:55 GMT -6
I have once worked for a HC who was primarily a defensive guy before becoming a HC. He didn't really know any of the assistants coming into the job so he ran his fairly complex offense, and then assigned his newly found DC a simple defense to run. The defense was 95% cover 4, almost purely over.
So I guess if this is actually a thing, the cause could possibly be that it is perceived easier to be successful with an overly simple defense than an overly simple offense. So if the HC didn't know/trust any of his assistants then the easier of the two jobs would be the DC
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Post by realdawg on Oct 8, 2018 6:35:04 GMT -6
Our HC was a DC. Now he is just the HC and we have a DC and an OC. He is heavily involved and coaches a position on both sides of the ball. I think defense takes a lot more time than offense and it is hard for a HC to have enough time to be the HC and run the defense.
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SconnieOC
Junior Member
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Post by SconnieOC on Oct 8, 2018 7:32:15 GMT -6
I have worked for 3 HC's, all defensive guys, although the guy I work for now used to be an OC, and switched over when he hired our OC.
I'm probably going to get blasted for this, but there is some logic to it being predominately offensive guys(footballscoop had an article a while back about this topic). Maybe college is different than high school, but current FBS HC's were overwhelmingly former QBs and OL, with a decent amount of WR's mixed in, if I remember correctly. Is it possible that those top 2 positions create the best HC's? QBs have to think about the game differently than any other player, they understand it better (generally, that's a pretty broad statement), the good ones are usually an extra coach on the field. OL have to be selfless, and tough, both qualities a HC needs to have, and they understand the toughest/most important aspect of any team, and that's OL play.
I also think when a job opens up, and admins are looking at candidates, if it comes down to 2 guys to take over a program, their instinct is probably going to be with who creates the most excitement, and gets butts in the seats, and that's offensive guys right now. So they may just have more opportunities afforded to them.
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Post by Defcord on Oct 9, 2018 9:38:54 GMT -6
Every head coach I have worked for has called the offense. I think several factors come into play.
First, there’s some ego. They want to be responsible for the points scored. I think the good ones also know that there is more criticism on the offensive play caller when things aren’t going smoothly and want to bear that responsibility so that an assistant isn’t taking the heat.
Second as already mentioned the offense sets the team tempo; it dictates the type of team you will have. Are you going to be a grind it out and play great defense team or are going to toss it around and try to hit out shoot your opponents?
Third I think running the offense is more creative and allows a coach to put his mark on the team. Defense allows for some creativity but it’s a lot more reactionary. Most head coaches in my experience have wanted their team to be molded in their identity and offense allows that more than defense in my opinion.
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Post by agap on Oct 9, 2018 10:41:12 GMT -6
I have worked for 3 HC's, all defensive guys, although the guy I work for now used to be an OC, and switched over when he hired our OC. I'm probably going to get blasted for this, but there is some logic to it being predominately offensive guys(footballscoop had an article a while back about this topic). Maybe college is different than high school, but current FBS HC's were overwhelmingly former QBs and OL, with a decent amount of WR's mixed in, if I remember correctly. Is it possible that those top 2 positions create the best HC's? QBs have to think about the game differently than any other player, they understand it better (generally, that's a pretty broad statement), the good ones are usually an extra coach on the field. OL have to be selfless, and tough, both qualities a HC needs to have, and they understand the toughest/most important aspect of any team, and that's OL play. I also think when a job opens up, and admins are looking at candidates, if it comes down to 2 guys to take over a program, their instinct is probably going to be with who creates the most excitement, and gets butts in the seats, and that's offensive guys right now. So they may just have more opportunities afforded to them. I'm not going to blast you for it, but I don't agree that QBs and OL create the best HCs. Every player on defense needs to be selfless in order for a defense to be successful. I've coached many DBs and LBs who were an extra coach on the field. I've also coached DL who could explain run fits and how the coverage affected fits. That's just my opinion though. |
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Post by canesfan on Oct 9, 2018 11:08:18 GMT -6
HC and DC here. I can see why many coaches would want to coach offense, because the offense is always going to be the one criticized when things go bad. However, you have to coach to your identity. I’m a defensive guy, I could coordinate offense but my time is better served preparing our defense and helping our offense get the best looks, identify coverage, etc. I feel that I could coach any position adequately and would coach any of them if need be. However, I’m fortunate that I don’t need to do that with our staff. As time goes by and the makeup of the staff changes that might change but for now, me moving to call the offense would not be the best use of the coaching ability we have on our staff.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Oct 9, 2018 11:35:11 GMT -6
I am a HC and coach DBs. I made the switch from offense when I became a HC for various reasons:
1) My self-worth is not dependent on me "managing" or micromanaging everything. I am in charge, and allow my coaches to coach/do their jobs.
2) I hired a guy who I trust and believe in to run the offense. He's got a great mind, and we problem-solve in a similar manner.
3) I have a DC that needed some freedom to "spread his wings" and develop- he did just that.
4) I was hired and lost our DB coach around the same time...and, for whatever reason, it was impossible to find a DB coach so I said phuk it I'll do it.
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Post by fshamrock on Oct 9, 2018 11:52:49 GMT -6
the common trap that some guys fall into is being a defensive guy as HC and deciding to take over offense when it is struggling
I've seen it happen a few times, HC starts spending all his time in the offensive meeting room drawing up plays that he has had a hard time defending in the past, but not taking into account the ability of the players and whether or not those plays fit into the overall offensive philosophy, the whole thing can deteriorate to the point where you don't really have an offense, just a bunch of plays. Defensive guys who take over offense end up disjointed, offensive guys who take over defense end up in the 3-3 stack
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SconnieOC
Junior Member
Just here to learn the facemelter
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Post by SconnieOC on Oct 9, 2018 12:16:27 GMT -6
I have worked for 3 HC's, all defensive guys, although the guy I work for now used to be an OC, and switched over when he hired our OC. I'm probably going to get blasted for this, but there is some logic to it being predominately offensive guys(footballscoop had an article a while back about this topic). Maybe college is different than high school, but current FBS HC's were overwhelmingly former QBs and OL, with a decent amount of WR's mixed in, if I remember correctly. Is it possible that those top 2 positions create the best HC's? QBs have to think about the game differently than any other player, they understand it better (generally, that's a pretty broad statement), the good ones are usually an extra coach on the field. OL have to be selfless, and tough, both qualities a HC needs to have, and they understand the toughest/most important aspect of any team, and that's OL play. I also think when a job opens up, and admins are looking at candidates, if it comes down to 2 guys to take over a program, their instinct is probably going to be with who creates the most excitement, and gets butts in the seats, and that's offensive guys right now. So they may just have more opportunities afforded to them. I'm not going to blast you for it, but I don't agree that QBs and OL create the best HCs. Every player on defense needs to be selfless in order for a defense to be successful. I've coached many DBs and LBs who were an extra coach on the field. I've also coached DL who could explain run fits and how the coverage affected fits. That's just my opinion though. And I don't mean to say that defensive coaches are/will be terrible HC's because they are defensive guys. I think we've all coached special guys on both sides of the ball who would make great coaches. Ol Bill and Nick are doing pretty well at the highest levels as defensive guys.. I don't think there is a formula, just offering an opinion.. wasn't meaning to sound like defensive guys aren't smart, or extra coaches, or whatever. |
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Post by nicku on Oct 9, 2018 13:21:44 GMT -6
in the college game name an o coach who can recruit and play defense? What in the hell are you talking about? Offensive coaches recruit...just like, um, every single college HC? And coaches don't play defense at all. That's just the players. |
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Post by agap on Oct 9, 2018 13:32:33 GMT -6
I'm not going to blast you for it, but I don't agree that QBs and OL create the best HCs. Every player on defense needs to be selfless in order for a defense to be successful. I've coached many DBs and LBs who were an extra coach on the field. I've also coached DL who could explain run fits and how the coverage affected fits. That's just my opinion though. And I don't mean to say that defensive coaches are/will be terrible HC's because they are defensive guys. I think we've all coached special guys on both sides of the ball who would make great coaches. Ol Bill and Nick are doing pretty well at the highest levels as defensive guys.. I don't think there is a formula, just offering an opinion.. wasn't meaning to sound like defensive guys aren't smart, or extra coaches, or whatever. I wasn't offended and didn't take it that way. I'm sure we're both biased because we either coach O or D. |
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Post by IronmanFootball on Oct 9, 2018 16:50:18 GMT -6
I've been a HC that was OC, DC, and both. I actually think the best idea is to be HC/STC if you can swing it because that's the most important part of the game anyway. It's the one your opponent probably ignores, it won or lost me 10 games as a HC (of 40!), and it's easier to manage the entire game while coordinating that side. You control when to punt (if at all), FG, PAT or 2 point, onside kicks, etc.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 9, 2018 17:50:05 GMT -6
What in the hell are you talking about? Offensive coaches recruit...just like, um, every single college HC? And coaches don't play defense at all. That's just the players. how many of these gurus recruit at a top level? And have had playing really good defense? Clemson's defense is #7 in points allowed per game, Malzahn's defense is # 6 , Dan Mullen's is # 8, Harbaugh's is #10... Historically Bowden's defenses at Fla State were dominating... Now to answer the OPs question, I think there is a lot less division between sides of the ball at the HS ranks. Many more coaches having to coach both sides of the ball and far fewer examples of completely split staffs. As other coaches have mentioned, offense, particularly at the HS level offers more opportunities for precise coaching to yield a positive effect. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 9, 2018 18:08:55 GMT -6
Also, you can add the #3 defense in the country, Washington, who is coached by an offensive coach (Chris Peterson) to that list above.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 9, 2018 18:23:29 GMT -6
Clemson's defense is #7 in points allowed per game, Malzahn's defense is # 6 , Dan Mullen's is # 8, Harbaugh's is #10... Historically Bowden's defenses at Fla State were dominating... Now to answer the OPs question, I think there is a lot less division between sides of the ball at the HS ranks. Many more coaches having to coach both sides of the ball and far fewer examples of completely split staffs. As other coaches have mentioned, offense, particularly at the HS level offers more opportunities for precise coaching to yield a positive effect. Mullin hasn't recruited anybody yet. Right now I wouldn't be using malzahn who is going to get fired this year, or harbaugh, and outside of Watson Clemson is ok...the gurus they are not...anymore. Asks for offensive guys who recruit and their teams are playing defense. Is given list of offensive coaches who have a history of recruiting great players and whose defenses are in the top 10 in the country. States "Oh, I wouldn't be using those guys...." Of course you wouldn't use those guys @grad17. Follow the money people Follow the money! |
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SconnieOC
Junior Member
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Post by SconnieOC on Oct 10, 2018 7:24:40 GMT -6
Mullin hasn't recruited anybody yet. Right now I wouldn't be using malzahn who is going to get fired this year, or harbaugh, and outside of Watson Clemson is ok...the gurus they are not...anymore. Asks for offensive guys who recruit and their teams are playing defense. Is given list of offensive coaches who have a history of recruiting great players and whose defenses are in the top 10 in the country. States "Oh, I wouldn't be using those guys...." Of course you wouldn't use those guys @grad17 . Follow the money people Follow the money! It is incredible how anytime @grad17 interjects anything into a conversation, it does, or has significant potential to spiral off. I mean its really epic troll stuff. Somehow he knows exactly what to say to make everyone want to jump his a$$. Mullin hasn't recruited anyone? Uhhh Tebow, Dak Prescott, not to mention all the dudes he recruited who just beat a top 10 team on Saturday. Malzahn is not getting fired, and Clemson is ok..? I just.. I can't help but reply to you because of the pure ignorance that comes from your mind... I've said it to you before.. Kudos on being the CoachHuey #1 Troll |
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Post by newhope on Oct 10, 2018 7:56:06 GMT -6
What in the hell are you talking about? Offensive coaches recruit...just like, um, every single college HC? And coaches don't play defense at all. That's just the players. how many of these gurus recruit at a top level? And have had playing really good defense? Dabo for starters |
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Post by coachcb on Oct 10, 2018 10:41:51 GMT -6
IMO, a smart HC will take over the defense if he has a smart, qualified coach to install and run the offense. In my experience, many coaches underestimate how difficult it can be to run a sound, effective defense. Especially if you're going to see a wide variety of offenses within your schedule. I've been both an OC and a DC and, IMO, installing and running a sound defense takes more forethought and practice time coordination than an offense does.
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Post by fantom on Oct 10, 2018 10:54:33 GMT -6
IMO, a smart HC will take over the defense if he has a smart, qualified coach to install and run the offense. In my experience, many coaches underestimate how difficult it can be to run a sound, effective defense. Especially if you're going to see a wide variety of offenses within your schedule. I've been both an OC and a DC and, IMO, installing and running a sound defense takes more forethought and practice time coordination than an offense does. Funny, I was a career DC but I feel the other way. Calling defense is somewhat easy. When in doubt call "Base". |
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