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Post by coachcb on Oct 4, 2018 7:15:51 GMT -6
We have a Legion baseball program around here that is absolutely toxic. I'm not over-exaggerating when I say it's the worst-run sports program I have ever seen. The kids get into legal problems (MIPs, cell phone chit) during the summer (we can't do anything about that), failed classes in the spring, and raised hell in school and still played for this team. There are absolutely no consequences for the kids' behavior when it comes to this baseball team and it shows in the attitude of the kids that play football. They run fall baseball, push specialization and the school sports programs are paying for it across the board.
We're having success in football this year and I've heard several kids talking about ditching baseball to either participate in track or lift weights for football. I've kept my trap shut when I hear them talk but at I am at the point where I am wondering if I should interject and give the kids a little push. I could do so tactfully; "If you don't play baseball, come on out for track and throw for us!" or "If you don't play baseball or do track, you'll have more time to hit the weights for football."
I've never been this way when it comes to other sports; I've always kept quiet and let the chips fall where they may. But, there has been no push by the parents or the community to clean up this baseball program and it's hurting all of our school sports.
Thoughts?
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Post by olcoach53 on Oct 4, 2018 7:18:02 GMT -6
In my opinion, if it isn't a school sport then you shouldn't feel like you have to push them to play. Let that poorly run program hang themselves. I think your idea of tactfully promoting SCHOOL sports is completely acceptable.
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Post by rsmith627 on Oct 4, 2018 7:36:41 GMT -6
I also think this approach would be acceptable. You aren't pushing them to specialize in one sport. You're gently nudging them toward participating in other school sponsored sports, or just bettering themselves through an offseason weight program.
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choprip
Sophomore Member
Posts: 125 
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Post by choprip on Oct 4, 2018 7:38:43 GMT -6
Nothing wrong with educating young athletes on the benefits of track and field...
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Post by coachcb on Oct 4, 2018 8:27:07 GMT -6
To be honest, I've been tempted to have a "Comin To Jesus" talk with a few of our kids about this issue. "What do you love more; baseball or walking out of high school without a criminal record and decent grades?"
I've never openly bashed another sport but some of our kids seriously flirted with disaster last spring and summer. And, the culture within this baseball program strongly contributed to it. The responsibility for the crap going on is still on the kids and the parents but the baseball program isn't doing anyone any favors by letting it slide.
We had ONE report of kids partying at the beginning of the year, we addressed it, told them we'd call the police if we got another call about a party going on and they've been walking on eggshells during the weekends every since.
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Post by Down 'n Out on Oct 4, 2018 8:29:09 GMT -6
Never undercut another school program, but if its not school related crush it. I do try to steer certain kids toward certain sports. Short, thick kid away from basketball and toward wrestling, etc
I like to feel like in the past 3 years we have effectively killed "fall ball", which I said was one of my top goals when we started. The fall ball team is made up of the spring baseball team, minus their top 3-4 players who play football for us now.
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center
Junior Member
Posts: 484
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Post by center on Oct 4, 2018 9:00:33 GMT -6
We have a Legion baseball program around here that is absolutely toxic. I'm not over-exaggerating when I say it's the worst-run sports program I have ever seen. The kids get into legal problems (MIPs, cell phone chit) during the summer (we can't do anything about that), failed classes in the spring, and raised hell in school and still played for this team. There are absolutely no consequences for the kids' behavior when it comes to this baseball team and it shows in the attitude of the kids that play football. They run fall baseball, push specialization and the school sports programs are paying for it across the board. We're having success in football this year and I've heard several kids talking about ditching baseball to either participate in track or lift weights for football. I've kept my trap shut when I hear them talk but at I am at the point where I am wondering if I should interject and give the kids a little push. I could do so tactfully; "If you don't play baseball, come on out for track and throw for us!" or "If you don't play baseball or do track, you'll have more time to hit the weights for football." I've never been this way when it comes to other sports; I've always kept quiet and let the chips fall where they may. But, there has been no push by the parents or the community to clean up this baseball program and it's hurting all of our school sports. Thoughts? What is an MIP? |
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Post by rsmith627 on Oct 4, 2018 9:06:36 GMT -6
We have a Legion baseball program around here that is absolutely toxic. I'm not over-exaggerating when I say it's the worst-run sports program I have ever seen. The kids get into legal problems (MIPs, cell phone chit) during the summer (we can't do anything about that), failed classes in the spring, and raised hell in school and still played for this team. There are absolutely no consequences for the kids' behavior when it comes to this baseball team and it shows in the attitude of the kids that play football. They run fall baseball, push specialization and the school sports programs are paying for it across the board. We're having success in football this year and I've heard several kids talking about ditching baseball to either participate in track or lift weights for football. I've kept my trap shut when I hear them talk but at I am at the point where I am wondering if I should interject and give the kids a little push. I could do so tactfully; "If you don't play baseball, come on out for track and throw for us!" or "If you don't play baseball or do track, you'll have more time to hit the weights for football." I've never been this way when it comes to other sports; I've always kept quiet and let the chips fall where they may. But, there has been no push by the parents or the community to clean up this baseball program and it's hurting all of our school sports. Thoughts? What is an MIP? Minor in possession (alcohol) |
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Post by dytmook on Oct 4, 2018 9:19:56 GMT -6
If they mention not playing I can't see why you wouldn't ask them to come do track with you. Seems like a natural fit. "hey you don't like that? Come try this."
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Post by CS on Oct 4, 2018 9:24:32 GMT -6
I coach track here and if anyone says to me that they may not play to run track I simply tell them that we would love to have them come out and sale them on the benefits.
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Post by bigmoot on Oct 4, 2018 9:24:40 GMT -6
Its not another school team...RECRUIT.
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Post by CS on Oct 4, 2018 9:27:18 GMT -6
I coach track here and if anyone says to me that they may not play to run track I simply tell them that we would love to have them come out and sale them on the benefits. I’m not going to down play or undercut anything. Even a non school related sport. I just try and sale them on what benefits them the most |
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Post by aceback76 on Oct 4, 2018 9:41:37 GMT -6
We have a Legion baseball program around here that is absolutely toxic. I'm not over-exaggerating when I say it's the worst-run sports program I have ever seen. The kids get into legal problems (MIPs, cell phone chit) during the summer (we can't do anything about that), failed classes in the spring, and raised hell in school and still played for this team. There are absolutely no consequences for the kids' behavior when it comes to this baseball team and it shows in the attitude of the kids that play football. They run fall baseball, push specialization and the school sports programs are paying for it across the board. We're having success in football this year and I've heard several kids talking about ditching baseball to either participate in track or lift weights for football. I've kept my trap shut when I hear them talk but at I am at the point where I am wondering if I should interject and give the kids a little push. I could do so tactfully; "If you don't play baseball, come on out for track and throw for us!" or "If you don't play baseball or do track, you'll have more time to hit the weights for football." I've never been this way when it comes to other sports; I've always kept quiet and let the chips fall where they may. But, there has been no push by the parents or the community to clean up this baseball program and it's hurting all of our school sports. Thoughts? All of this must be hashed out (& agreed upon) before the season begins. The football team represents the SCHOOL (not the "Legion"), & if a player(s) won't commit to being with the football team all the way thru, we don't let the be a team member! No if's, ands, or buts!!! |
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Post by coachcb on Oct 4, 2018 10:14:52 GMT -6
We have a Legion baseball program around here that is absolutely toxic. I'm not over-exaggerating when I say it's the worst-run sports program I have ever seen. The kids get into legal problems (MIPs, cell phone chit) during the summer (we can't do anything about that), failed classes in the spring, and raised hell in school and still played for this team. There are absolutely no consequences for the kids' behavior when it comes to this baseball team and it shows in the attitude of the kids that play football. They run fall baseball, push specialization and the school sports programs are paying for it across the board. We're having success in football this year and I've heard several kids talking about ditching baseball to either participate in track or lift weights for football. I've kept my trap shut when I hear them talk but at I am at the point where I am wondering if I should interject and give the kids a little push. I could do so tactfully; "If you don't play baseball, come on out for track and throw for us!" or "If you don't play baseball or do track, you'll have more time to hit the weights for football." I've never been this way when it comes to other sports; I've always kept quiet and let the chips fall where they may. But, there has been no push by the parents or the community to clean up this baseball program and it's hurting all of our school sports. Thoughts? All of this must be hashed out (& agreed upon) before the season begins. The football team represents the SCHOOL (not the "Legion"), & if a player(s) won't commit to being with the football team all the way thru, we don't let the be a team member! No if's, ands, or buts!!! We made it clear that the kids couldn't do both fall baseball and football and expect to play so that isn't an issue. The head wrestling coach told one of our guys that he wouldn't be wrestling for him this year if he ditched football for fall baseball. The issue is the culture that this baseball program is creating within the community. If it were a school run program, well over half of the team wouldn't be playing because they were either academically ineligible or they got into legal trouble. I've honestly never seen any sports program permeate through a community in such a bad way. |
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Post by newhope on Oct 4, 2018 10:31:11 GMT -6
Recruiting players for school sports is fine. Guiding away from bad situations is fine. I would be careful in badmouthing anyone in the community--that stuff invariably gets back to them and then they will go after you and your program.
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Post by coachcb on Oct 4, 2018 11:58:58 GMT -6
Recruiting players for school sports is fine. Guiding away from bad situations is fine. I would be careful in badmouthing anyone in the community-- that stuff invariably gets back to them and then they will go after you and your program.This is precisely what has been keeping me quiet about it. However, I am at the point where I don't know that I care. Our HC and staff certainly don't and we've had several conversations about the situation. Our HC was pretty gung-ho about being extremely vocal about the baseball program at the beginning summer. But, we all agreed to just keep quiet. However, we started hearing about some of the things that have been going on and figured out just how bad things are. |
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Post by fkaboneyard on Oct 4, 2018 13:30:44 GMT -6
As coaches we're always talking about how we're in it for the kids, we're teaching them to be men. If the program is as bad as you say it is I think you have a duty to discourage kids from being part of it. This isn't you protecting your personal fiefdom it is protecting the kids from a dumpster fire. That's my $.02.
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Post by newhope on Oct 5, 2018 5:43:15 GMT -6
Recruiting players for school sports is fine. Guiding away from bad situations is fine. I would be careful in badmouthing anyone in the community-- that stuff invariably gets back to them and then they will go after you and your program.This is precisely what has been keeping me quiet about it. However, I am at the point where I don't know that I care. Our HC and staff certainly don't and we've had several conversations about the situation. Our HC was pretty gung-ho about being extremely vocal about the baseball program at the beginning summer. But, we all agreed to just keep quiet. However, we started hearing about some of the things that have been going on and figured out just how bad things are. My advice would be to leave the decision on how to handle this to your HC. It's his program. If you cause problems in the community, it will reflect back on him and his program. An assistant's job is never to make the HC's job harder. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 6, 2018 5:49:46 GMT -6
coachcb To play a bit of devils advocate, how exactly is this program encouraging the players to violate laws and not do their best in the academic setting? Simply not having consequences is driving the kids to make these choices? Also, are those affiliated with this Legion team also affiliated with the school sponsored spring baseball team?
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Post by coachcb on Oct 8, 2018 7:44:40 GMT -6
coachcb To play a bit of devils advocate, how exactly is this program encouraging the players to violate laws and not do their best in the academic setting? Simply not having consequences is driving the kids to make these choices? Also, are those affiliated with this Legion team also affiliated with the school sponsored spring baseball team? They're not encouraging the kids to do anything and the majority of the responsibility lies with the kids making the poor choices and with the parents for not laying down the law either. However, this program is enabling the poor behavior by not establishing any consequences. People have started to refer to the issues as a part of the "___ Baseball Culture"; the baseball team raises hell together all summer long (i.e. "baseball parties"), they get busted and the kids still play. We don't have school sponsored baseball in this state; it's all Legion and that's the problem. I've worked with some outstanding Legion baseball programs that were very well run. They were actually more strict than the school when it came to discipline and grades. But, this program is certainly not the case. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 8, 2018 17:38:27 GMT -6
coachcb To play a bit of devils advocate, how exactly is this program encouraging the players to violate laws and not do their best in the academic setting? Simply not having consequences is driving the kids to make these choices? Also, are those affiliated with this Legion team also affiliated with the school sponsored spring baseball team? They're not encouraging the kids to do anything and the majority of the responsibility lies with the kids making the poor choices and with the parents for not laying down the law either. However, this program is enabling the poor behavior by not establishing any consequences. People have started to refer to the issues as a part of the "___ Baseball Culture"; the baseball team raises hell together all summer long (i.e. "baseball parties"), they get busted and the kids still play. We don't have school sponsored baseball in this state; it's all Legion and that's the problem. I've worked with some outstanding Legion baseball programs that were very well run. They were actually more strict than the school when it came to discipline and grades. But, this program is certainly not the case. Ah, well given that there is no school sponsored baseball in the state..that changes my opinion a bit. F em. That said, I still don't know if I believe it is the responsibility of a a non school sponsored entity (therefore not an extra-curricular) to discipline players for infractions that don't involve the organization. |
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Post by silkyice on Oct 8, 2018 20:20:49 GMT -6
We don't have school sponsored baseball in this state; it's all Legion and that's the problem. What?? There isn't high school baseball in your state? What state is that? |
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Post by cqmiller on Oct 8, 2018 20:39:44 GMT -6
Summer baseball isn't "high school" here either... most HS guys run their legion programs, but it can become quite a disaster if not managed properly.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 8, 2018 20:44:20 GMT -6
Summer baseball isn't "high school" here either... most HS guys run their legion programs, but it can become quite a disaster if not managed properly. I think that is probably common. But what the OP seems to be describing is not having baseball affiliated with HS in any manner. |
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Post by coolhandluke on Oct 8, 2018 21:24:18 GMT -6
Baseball= Organized rest.
They need to run track.
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Post by coachcb on Oct 9, 2018 6:48:18 GMT -6
We don't have school sponsored baseball in this state; it's all Legion and that's the problem. What?? There isn't high school baseball in your state? What state is that? None of the states in this area run high school baseball: North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, Wyoming, etc.. They used to have school baseball in this state a few decades ago but Legion came in and basically took over. |
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Post by silkyice on Oct 9, 2018 7:16:41 GMT -6
What?? There isn't high school baseball in your state? What state is that? None of the states in this area run high school baseball: North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, Wyoming, etc.. They used to have school baseball in this state a few decades ago but Legion came in and basically took over. I am going to guess as to why. By the time the weather gets nice enough to play, y'all are out of school. Accurate? |
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Post by coachcb on Oct 9, 2018 8:50:28 GMT -6
None of the states in this area run high school baseball: North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, Wyoming, etc.. They used to have school baseball in this state a few decades ago but Legion came in and basically took over. I am going to guess as to why. By the time the weather gets nice enough to play, y'all are out of school. Accurate? Yup, that's what happened. We still have girls softball in the schools but their seasons can be pretty short if winter holds on into the spring. Practice starts in March and the state tournament is over Memorial Day weekend in May. Some years, it's a decent, competitive season. Other years, the girls get a handful of games before it's time for the play-offs. |
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