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Post by fshamrock on Oct 1, 2018 8:19:32 GMT -6
I have a meeting later today with a player and I'm going to go ahead and tell you how it's going to go
I will tell him that he's not playing much right now because we don't feel he's one of the best 11
he will list off names of guys that he believes himself to be better than
we will agree to disagree....and he might quit
kid was the starting in the spring and at the start of camp, despite being severely undersized and slow, because he had (past tense) a good work ethic and on the lower levels had a knack for being where he's supposed to be and finding a way to get to the ball (oslb)
In our spring meeting, he was told that he would get a chance to compete for a starting job, and he should be proud of that given his physical limitations, he looked at me like he had no idea what I was talking about "physical limitations", dude is 5'4 with a matching 40 time
any rate, he spends all summer "playing baseball" which he's also not that good at (JV as a junior) but claims that's how he's going to get "his ride" and shows up to two-a-days with a beer gut and cankles.......he holds on to the starting spot until after the 1st game when he misses several tackles that he's not even in the vicinity of...honestly I think the few tackles he got were a result of the ball carrier not expecting it to take as long as it did for him to get there, so he juked early......I'm serious about that
short story longer.....it's been 3 more games and he's only played mop up time, today he wants to meet and I'm thinking he might hang it up
how are these kids so powerfully self deluded? In the game the other night we scored to go up by a comfortable margin and I told him he could go next series and he gave me a lip smack and an "it's about time" look...the one that drives me up the wall
thing is...there's a kid or two like him every year......a guy who feels like he needs to be out there despite mounds of evidence to the contrary, problem is, he's on a few special teams and provides some depth for us so I'd really rather he not quit, but I don't know what to tell him that will make him stay, outside of saying "you're going to play more" which is a lie because we are about to get into the buzzsaw of our schedule and he won't be able to catch any of the dudes we are about to line up against
thoughts?
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Post by mrjvi on Oct 1, 2018 8:59:39 GMT -6
You are right. Everyone has a kid like that. We had a shortish, fat, weak kid wonder why he isn't playing because he "busts his butt" in practice. He doesn't but last week we were doing a drill to get DL and LB's to the proper gaps. Just fast to the gap and stop. He was an OL guy just being positional. He suddenly screams very long, loud and quite pre-pubescent-like. Says he was hit on both sides of his knee.  ?? Players carried him over to the bench where he stayed all practice. SURPRISE- it was our heavy conditioning day. He finds a way to get out of some of it most weeks. That was a tuesday. Wondered again at friday's game why he wasn't playing. Dillusional really is the right word. |
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Post by coachfoster16 on Oct 1, 2018 9:10:47 GMT -6
Had a very similar situation last year with a Junior who was 5'2 and weighed about 130 pounds. He was expecting to get a lot of playing time, despite the fact he just had little to no athletic ability. The only reason he was even in the rotation was because of his work ethic and ability to learn plays quicker than the better athletes.
1. Wouldn't let a discussion occur between him and you about other players. Nothing good will come of it.
2. One of the reasons our kid started getting a bad attitude was not only because of lack of playing time, but also because he started to get caught up in the drug culture at the school. So it was a combination of lack of playing time and started hanging out with the wrong crowd.
3. The way the conversation went with him that eventually, helped him get over the most of his issues was - "Hey, you have to realize that you are and undersized player, the only thing that gave you shot at getting out on the field is that you worked harder than everyone out there and picked up on new things quickly, and finally you came to practice with a great attitude. If you are going to start to take those things away (work ethic and attitude) then you have no shot. You are taking away the only things that gave you an opportunity to see playing time." That kind of leaves him with a decision to make. Ours chose to correct those things, but I could definitely see a kid choosing to go in the other direction
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Post by coachcb on Oct 1, 2018 9:18:15 GMT -6
Yup... We all run into these kinds of kids. Generally speaking, it's a combination of parents feeding into the ego and getting time on the field when you ave no one else. We had a junior this year who was convinced that he would be a starting SS and H-back for us as he ended up starting for us last year due to injuries. He ends up getting a third of the reps with the first team during practice and most of the reps with the 2s; in no way should he have gotten the impression that he was the starter. He sees the depth chart right before our first game and gets whiny about it. We explain to him that he's the JV starter and will be rotating in at H-back during varsity and he has a chance to earn the starting spot there.
That's not good enough for him. He picks up a grade 1 shoulder separation during practice and PT tells him he'll be out for a week. He decides that this is a serious injury, a detriment to his basketball career and never shows up again. His mom calls the AD and complains that we are teaching a dangerous technique that are "dangerous. According to her, blocking with our hands is completely unacceptable and we should be using our shoulder pads.
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Post by newhope on Oct 1, 2018 9:29:59 GMT -6
I have a meeting later today with a player and I'm going to go ahead and tell you how it's going to go I will tell him that he's not playing much right now because we don't feel he's one of the best 11 he will list off names of guys that he believes himself to be better than we will agree to disagree....and he might quit kid was the starting in the spring and at the start of camp, despite being severely undersized and slow, because he had (past tense) a good work ethic and on the lower levels had a knack for being where he's supposed to be and finding a way to get to the ball (oslb) In our spring meeting, he was told that he would get a chance to compete for a starting job, and he should be proud of that given his physical limitations, he looked at me like he had no idea what I was talking about "physical limitations", dude is 5'4 with a matching 40 time any rate, he spends all summer "playing baseball" which he's also not that good at (JV as a junior) but claims that's how he's going to get "his ride" and shows up to two-a-days with a beer gut and cankles.......he holds on to the starting spot until after the 1st game when he misses several tackles that he's not even in the vicinity of...honestly I think the few tackles he got were a result of the ball carrier not expecting it to take as long as it did for him to get there, so he juked early......I'm serious about that short story longer.....it's been 3 more games and he's only played mop up time, today he wants to meet and I'm thinking he might hang it up how are these kids so powerfully self deluded? In the game the other night we scored to go up by a comfortable margin and I told him he could go next series and he gave me a lip smack and an "it's about time" look...the one that drives me up the wall thing is...there's a kid or two like him every year......a guy who feels like he needs to be out there despite mounds of evidence to the contrary, problem is, he's on a few special teams and provides some depth for us so I'd really rather he not quit, but I don't know what to tell him that will make him stay, outside of saying "you're going to play more" which is a lie because we are about to get into the buzzsaw of our schedule and he won't be able to catch any of the dudes we are about to line up against thoughts? They are usually this self deluded because someone at home is building up the delusion. No one's telling him the truth. Sometimes, we as coaches have to be the ones to tell them truth. If he quits, so be it. There's a role for him to play, he needs to understand what it is, and either accept it or move on. |
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Post by Wingtman on Oct 1, 2018 10:49:24 GMT -6
We have this theory that our kids think since they are the best here, they are the best everywhere. Many wonder why they aren't getting D-1 looks, etc. They don't even know what a D-1 player looks like, other then IMO, it ain't them.
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Post by fshamrock on Oct 1, 2018 11:27:13 GMT -6
We have this theory that our kids think since they are the best here, they are the best everywhere. Many wonder why they aren't getting D-1 looks, etc. They don't even know what a D-1 player looks like, other then IMO, it ain't them. ya we get that a lot too...especially from parents...we are like 99.9% Caucasian and our parents want to know why Bama doesn't come to recruit |
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Post by carookie on Oct 1, 2018 11:37:49 GMT -6
1) Film don't lie, especially practice film in this instance if there is any.
2) Coach him up, platitude I know but hear me out. Give him specific tangible abilities he needs to achieve (ie you need to be this fast with your size, so keep working on being faster); odds are he won't be that fast or get there but at least it gives him something specific as to defend your decision.
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SconnieOC
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Post by SconnieOC on Oct 1, 2018 12:24:26 GMT -6
I always feel that we've got a pretty good culture, but inevitably one or two of these pop of every year. We had a junior WR who wasn't in the 2 deep going into game 1, and couldn't figure out why. He comes in to meet with me and I ask him why he thinks he should be in the 2 deep..
"Well coach, I showed up to every 6 am lift all off-season (true), I outworked every guy at my position (not true) and the other WR's told me I should be starting" (so 2 of the guys who are ahead of you, told you that you're better than them? not true).
Kids are so frickin clueless. In his defense, he has worked a lot harder, and has had a better attitude, and is now starting on several special teams. It probably helps we've outscored our last 3 opponents like 156-10, so he's played a lot of minutes in garbage time. We'll see how this week goes when we play the big dogs
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Post by planck on Oct 1, 2018 14:30:23 GMT -6
A lot of kids genuinely have no idea. I have a kid who wants to play defensive end and thinks he's JJ Watt. Every single play he runs straight up field 10 yards so he can "turn the corner on this guy", which naturally gives up a 50 yard run if the ball comes his way.
Well, last week in mop up time he goes in and does his thing. The center snaps the ball 12 yards over the QBs head and into the endzone, and he's there to fall on it because he ran out of the play. Now he won't stop chirping about how he's our best "weapon of mass destruction on defense".
Sometimes I just want to quit this crap, you know?
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Post by blb on Oct 1, 2018 15:19:34 GMT -6
A lot of kids genuinely have no idea. I have a kid who wants to play defensive end and thinks he's JJ Watt. Every single play he runs straight up field 10 yards so he can "turn the corner on this guy", which naturally gives up a 50 yard run if the ball comes his way. Well, last week in mop up time he goes in and does his thing. The center snaps the ball 12 yards over the QBs head and into the endzone, and he's there to fall on it because he ran out of the play. Now he won't stop chirping about how he's our best "weapon of mass destruction on defense".
Perhaps only way to "fix" him is start him in next game.
After you're behind 7-0 because of him, maybe he'll get it.
Then again - probably not.
Never mind.
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Post by planck on Oct 1, 2018 18:56:49 GMT -6
Well he didn't figure it out after the first few times, which is why he was riding the pine in the first place...
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Post by johnson2133 on Oct 1, 2018 19:04:13 GMT -6
So literally just dealt with an issue tonight. JH team. 6 man. We only have six players. Needed to move guys around on defense because we are getting killed. One kid throws a fit because he doesnt want to move ( it was a bad mismatch) and so after hearing him ask to move back twice I just sit him. We play the entire 2nd half with just five. We lost 49-84 but I loved the 2nd half so much more. The 5 played their hearts out and my boy on the bench was sobbing and making comments about wanting to play. Been dealing with this from him all season and all year in my class. He doesnt get it. I know it is just junior high but our varsity has the same issues. Might be my only year coaching or teaching here, but I'm not putting up with it.
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choprip
Sophomore Member
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Post by choprip on Oct 2, 2018 19:29:24 GMT -6
A common characteristic of these kids is that they say they work their butts off...and they probably TRULY think they do, but they just have no clue what that REALLY looks like.
Also does not help that many of their peers do next to nothing. So the fact that they are part of a team at all is "such a sacrifice."
I've had this situation this year with one young man and I've just been very, very honest with him. In the past I would have sugarcoated things to not hurt his feelings, but I've finally learned that this just hurts them in the long run. Have I been a jerk? Of course not. But I have told him every thing he needs to work on and how some of his self-proclaimed "pros" have nothing to do with competing for a starting spot.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 3, 2018 5:15:32 GMT -6
Without throwing a stick of dynamite into the discussion, I am betting there are some big similarities between the issues in this thread, and the thread regarding narcissistic coaches. Not necessarily narcissism, but just the concept of overall human interaction and behavior issues and lack of mirrors.
Maybe not all (or even most) brains at that time during development aren't fully capable of self reflection or evaluation?
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Post by rsmith627 on Oct 3, 2018 6:14:33 GMT -6
We have a kid that is delusional as well. He's a JV kid. He is a VERY good d tackle, but his dad is all over twitter hyping him up. Tweeting highlights directly to places like Michigan and Clemson. If the kid leans out and grows in the right ways, he could for sure be a D1 kid, but I'm thinking more MAC level at best.
Parents don't understand that Clemson's entire DL is going in the first two rounds every year. This kid is good, but he's not a future draft pick.
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Post by blb on Oct 3, 2018 6:28:16 GMT -6
We have a kid that is delusional as well. He's a JV kid. He is a VERY good d tackle, but his dad is all over twitter hyping him up. Tweeting highlights directly to places like Michigan and Clemson. If the kid leans out and grows in the right ways, he could for sure be a D1 kid, but I'm thinking more MAC level at best. Parents don't understand that Clemson's entire DL is going in the first two rounds every year. This kid is good, but he's not a future draft pick.
Dad must not realize if Junior was THAT good - he wouldn't be on JVs.
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Post by rsmith627 on Oct 3, 2018 6:40:38 GMT -6
For sure. On varsity our biggest weakness is line depth. They already have 5 sophomores up. If he were a world beater he would be up. We have a kid that is delusional as well. He's a JV kid. He is a VERY good d tackle, but his dad is all over twitter hyping him up. Tweeting highlights directly to places like Michigan and Clemson. If the kid leans out and grows in the right ways, he could for sure be a D1 kid, but I'm thinking more MAC level at best. Parents don't understand that Clemson's entire DL is going in the first two rounds every year. This kid is good, but he's not a future draft pick.
Dad must not realize if Junior was THAT good - he wouldn't be on JVs.
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Post by dytmook on Oct 3, 2018 6:54:54 GMT -6
We had a freshman QB come in a bit like that. QB coach found out and got on him like none other on a camp day. He is much more on the level now. He's got confidence after his first start last week but he's been coachable and humble. I wish they were all that easy.
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Post by bluedevil4 on Oct 3, 2018 7:22:55 GMT -6
So I moderate a public/open football forum on another site, and we frequently get kids like this. It's supposed to be mostly for adults, but kids are there, and we get quite a few of these. The most memorable one was a 15 year old JV player: He's a 5'8" 230lb O-lineman that wasn't even starting. He then starts asking about what he has to do to switch to quarterback for varsity, because "I can throw farther than the QB, and I know that's where I'm supposed to be."
As mentioned already in this thread: Kids think they know what hard work is, and that they do it, but they just don't get it. Unfortunately it takes a lot of failures to realize this.
By the time these kids are 22/23-ish, 90% will realize how silly they were at this age.
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OleCoach
Freshmen Member
Be a motivator, not a Ra-Ra guy.........
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Post by OleCoach on Oct 3, 2018 7:42:12 GMT -6
I have been at several places that has this "type" of player. The recent player thought he should be playing because his dad is a bleacher b****er who hammers the kid for not playing A complete snake to the staff in person. This place also had parents worry more about playing time than winning. It just comes down to being selfish.
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Post by stilltryin on Oct 4, 2018 6:25:52 GMT -6
I have been at several places that has this "type" of player. The recent player thought he should be playing because his dad is a bleacher b****er who hammers the kid for not playing A complete snake to the staff in person. This place also had parents worry more about playing time than winning. It just comes down to being selfish. As is so often the case, once you meet the dad, you understand why the kid's the way he is. |
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Post by newhope on Oct 4, 2018 6:34:48 GMT -6
I got an email yesterday from a coach at an Ivy League school asking for a transcript on a player.
1. The kid is not playing--he decided to take his junior year off
2. The kid couldn't start for us, much less play for the Ivy
3. The kid's grades aren't any where close to Ivy level
How the heck did that school get his name? I'm guessing him or his parents because I sure never sent them or anyone his name. I also another one this past spring who took a trip to Princeton. Kid has a 2.7 gpa. I had one (lineman) the other day ask me about playing college football. I said "Didn't you go to camp at Duke this summer? Did any of their players look like you?" "No"..."doesn't that answer your question for you?"
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OleCoach
Freshmen Member
Be a motivator, not a Ra-Ra guy.........
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Post by OleCoach on Oct 4, 2018 6:41:01 GMT -6
Sounds like one of those recruiting agencies...... I got an email yesterday from a coach at an Ivy League school asking for a transcript on a player. 1. The kid is not playing--he decided to take his junior year off 2. The kid couldn't start for us, much less play for the Ivy 3. The kid's grades aren't any where close to Ivy level How the heck did that school get his name? I'm guessing him or his parents because I sure never sent them or anyone his name. I also another one this past spring who took a trip to Princeton. Kid has a 2.7 gpa. I had one (lineman) the other day ask me about playing college football. I said "Didn't you go to camp at Duke this summer? Did any of their players look like you?" "No"..."doesn't that answer your question for you?" |
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klaby
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Post by klaby on Oct 4, 2018 14:35:23 GMT -6
Parents....dad is probably telling him how go he is...
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Post by fantom on Oct 4, 2018 14:56:33 GMT -6
We had a kid quit on the day of our last game. He'd missed two days of practice so that he could work as a costumed character at a haunted house. During our walk-through on Thursday when he wasn't starting the other linemen joked on him so he got pi$$ed. After school on game day as he was getting on the school bus he tossed his jersey to another player to turn in.
A month later his mother complained that we weren't helping with his college recruiting.
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Post by CanyonCoach on Oct 5, 2018 10:36:53 GMT -6
My guy that said he would play for Oregon in college but not Oregon State..missed a game because it was his birthday. Lost his helmet and shoulder pads so he stopped coming to practice. They weren't lost I pulled them after he no showed for the game. He never talked to a single coach about missing the game or about his pads. A friend from a sporting goods store called telling me a kid came in looking for very specific helmet and shoulder pads as well as our decal. When I finally caught up with the kid to ask about jerseys and where he had been he said that he couldn't play for us because of the offense we were running. When asked what offense we were running he stated that we were a power running football team...we are first in the state in passing with 4 kids in the top ten in receiving in our division.
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Post by silkyice on Oct 5, 2018 12:52:41 GMT -6
A month later his mother complained that we weren't helping with his college recruiting. Well, were you? LOL |
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Post by fantom on Oct 5, 2018 13:07:14 GMT -6
A month later his mother complained that we weren't helping with his college recruiting. Well, were you? LOL No. We had kids who actually finished the season on the team to worry about. |
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Post by blb on Oct 7, 2018 8:31:14 GMT -6
Had a kid 5-7 185 (not a "skilled" player) who was convinced we were not using his talents correctly.
After his sophomore year he went to a Nike combine in Detroit area.
Came back with a whole new outlook on the world of HS football.
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?? Players carried him over to the bench where he stayed all practice. SURPRISE- it was our heavy conditioning day. He finds a way to get out of some of it most weeks. That was a tuesday. Wondered again at friday's game why he wasn't playing. Dillusional really is the right word.
