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Post by coachnichols on Sept 24, 2018 14:13:14 GMT -6
In the ideal situation, JV and freshmen games are great. I'm wondering where is the line when they become a detriment. Getting beat by 50--is that still "good" experience? Having to play shorter quarters and/or running clock because you have less kids to play?
Just wanting some other coaches' thoughts. I don't have my mind made up on anything, which is why I am asking for other opinions.
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Post by blb on Sept 24, 2018 14:29:23 GMT -6
In the ideal situation, JV and freshmen games are great. I'm wondering where is the line when they become a detriment. Getting beat by 50--is that still "good" experience? Having to play shorter quarters and/or running clock because you have less kids to play? Just wanting some other coaches' thoughts. I don't have my mind made up on anything, which is why I am asking for other opinions.
Getting "beat by 50" is never a good experience regardless of level.
Is this just a numbers issue ("less kids to play") or is there more to it?
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Post by carookie on Sept 24, 2018 15:00:22 GMT -6
I coached the lower levels for a new school for a few years, we had to schedule games where we could and sometimes we ended up having to go against schools we had no business being on the same field with (us a mid sized school of 300 kids per graduating class, they a state power with 800+ kids per class).
That being written, I think that those losses benefited us in the long run in regards to kids getting work in live game situations. Within a few years those kids were top ranked in the state and playing in title games. As long as nobody gets seriously injured or develops bad habits to handle the mismatch then its good.
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Post by hsrose on Sept 24, 2018 15:23:03 GMT -6
I want the JV program to prepare the kids to play at varsity. So I don't emphasize winning as the ultimate goal. I do want the players on the field, I have to have video of them in game situations so I can evaluate them a bit. And it's a way for me to tell the parents that 'yeah, you better have Johnny here, because he WILL be on the field when it's 3rd and 2 and if he's not prepared it will really show up.' Do we want to win the games, yeah, we do. Do we want the players on the field in meaningful situations, yeah, much more so than winning.
But nobody learns anything in a blowout. Not the players, not the coaches, nobody.
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Post by johnson2133 on Sept 24, 2018 18:22:03 GMT -6
JH Coach here. My team just took one on the chin 0-72. The last two weeks we were more competitive. Quite frustrating because we only have 6, no one to sub and I know for a fact that nothing good came out of it. Games are really our only chance to get real practice. All we get is air basically during the week. Even half line stuff is pointless because of the guys we have. Games are better than no games.
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Post by carookie on Sept 24, 2018 20:27:41 GMT -6
JH Coach here. My team just took one on the chin 0-72. The last two weeks we were more competitive. Quite frustrating because we only have 6, no one to sub and I know for a fact that nothing good came out of it. Games are really our only chance to get real practice. All we get is air basically during the week. Even half line stuff is pointless because of the guys we have. Games are better than no games. You don't think that getting some full team work was any good at all? |
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Post by johnson2133 on Sept 24, 2018 21:35:55 GMT -6
JH Coach here. My team just took one on the chin 0-72. The last two weeks we were more competitive. Quite frustrating because we only have 6, no one to sub and I know for a fact that nothing good came out of it. Games are really our only chance to get real practice. All we get is air basically during the week. Even half line stuff is pointless because of the guys we have. Games are better than no games. You don't think that getting some full team work was any good at all? I did say games are better than no games. Knowing my boys though they won't take anything from this game. Even trying to shape it as "learning experience." The further we get from today's game the better things will be for them. To be fair as well, I made many mistakes this week that I'm ready to learn from (such as adding too much this week to our offensive game plan, and forgetting to stay simple.) There's a lot to ask of six kids playing an entire football game by themselves. I know they are gaining valuable experience, but they cant see far enough down the road to realize that now. |
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Post by carookie on Sept 24, 2018 23:43:50 GMT -6
You don't think that getting some full team work was any good at all? I did say games are better than no games. Knowing my boys though they won't take anything from this game. Even trying to shape it as "learning experience." The further we get from today's game the better things will be for them. To be fair as well, I made many mistakes this week that I'm ready to learn from (such as adding too much this week to our offensive game plan, and forgetting to stay simple.) There's a lot to ask of six kids playing an entire football game by themselves. I know they are gaining valuable experience, but they cant see far enough down the road to realize that now. Been there, last year finished the season and playoff runs with only 8 (in 8 man football). Played the last few snaps of the season with just 7 out there. |
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Post by coachnichols on Sept 25, 2018 6:36:45 GMT -6
We are a small school with about 120 or so in 7-12 grades and 30 out for high school football (20+ out for 7 and 8 grade). We started the season using some varsity-type guys on JV (example--kid who started on defense on Fridays and played offense for the JV). Now I'm to the point where I don't want to risk these kids in a JV game because we are starting to play everyone more (on both sides of the ball), we're a little dinged up, etc. I don't want to risk a starter in a JV game. So, with just our JV kids, we're down to 13 or 14 with all of them eligible and healthy. I'm glad they work hard and give good effort, but it's hard on them.
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Post by carookie on Sept 25, 2018 9:39:39 GMT -6
We are a small school with about 120 or so in 7-12 grades and 30 out for high school football (20+ out for 7 and 8 grade). We started the season using some varsity-type guys on JV (example--kid who started on defense on Fridays and played offense for the JV). Now I'm to the point where I don't want to risk these kids in a JV game because we are starting to play everyone more (on both sides of the ball), we're a little dinged up, etc. I don't want to risk a starter in a JV game. So, with just our JV kids, we're down to 13 or 14 with all of them eligible and healthy. I'm glad they work hard and give good effort, but it's hard on them. I used to be in the exact same situation (I am actually at a smaller school now). When I was in that situation we had approximately 6-7 JV games to accompany our full load of varsity games. As with you we had some players who would be "swing players" and get significant snaps in both games- state rules allowed it and sometimes it was needed to maintain a JV team. We would usually suit 15 for JV games, those JV would then be the varsity backups (or with swing players start) for the varsity game with a team of 30-35. It would sometimes be a pain for those swing players, so if you could get the JV games on Saturday as opposed to Thursday. I think the benefit there is that there are roughly 10-12 Frosh & Soph players who will be players in a year or two who would NOT otherwise play if it werent for the sub JV. Now, some of them would be a part of the team even if there were no JV team, but if there werent a JV team those kids would not play their Frosh year; and in turn not end up playing in years to come. |
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Post by CanyonCoach on Sept 25, 2018 12:48:50 GMT -6
Currently have 5-10 kids who have no interest in actually playing football. I have grabbed three by the hand walked them out to the huddle, told them what to do...turned and taken three steps out of the way and they have subbed themselves out.... wish that was on film.
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Post by johnson2133 on Sept 25, 2018 15:49:28 GMT -6
JH Coach here. My team just took one on the chin 0-72. The last two weeks we were more competitive. Quite frustrating because we only have 6, no one to sub and I know for a fact that nothing good came out of it. Games are really our only chance to get real practice. All we get is air basically during the week. Even half line stuff is pointless because of the guys we have. Games are better than no games. I'm quoting myself here... But we just had one of our best, most productive, focused practice of the year. So maybe something good did come out of our butt-whipping yesterday. |
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Post by coachcb on Sept 26, 2018 8:59:05 GMT -6
We are a small school with about 120 or so in 7-12 grades and 30 out for high school football (20+ out for 7 and 8 grade). We started the season using some varsity-type guys on JV (example--kid who started on defense on Fridays and played offense for the JV). Now I'm to the point where I don't want to risk these kids in a JV game because we are starting to play everyone more (on both sides of the ball), we're a little dinged up, etc. I don't want to risk a starter in a JV game. So, with just our JV kids, we're down to 13 or 14 with all of them eligible and healthy. I'm glad they work hard and give good effort, but it's hard on them. We're in the same boat in terms of numbers. We've been tempted to play some kids that get varsity reps during our JV games but, as you said, it isn't worth the risk. Generally speaking, we have 4-5 guys starting on JV that make us all cringe as they're continually outmatched. With that being said, we're 5-0 on JV right now, against some quality teams. We looked like complete crap in our first JV game but we've kept things simple and these kids are improving every single week. We played a solid game on Monday night and won it running Power, Counter, IZ, slants, and bubbles along with our base defense (few blitzes). Those 4-5 kids have improved significantly through practice and were doing well. |
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Post by johnson2133 on Sept 26, 2018 9:44:13 GMT -6
Ultimately frosh and jv games are not about winning. It is about muscle memory, player development. Whenever they get to varsity, they are not starting over. This may just be me, but "learning to win" is important too, especially when there has been success at a school in the past, but it has been struggling for a while (for whatever reasons). |
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Post by doitforthekids on Sept 26, 2018 12:14:57 GMT -6
Find a way to play! If you have 11 or more kids who NEVER play varsity, FIND A WAY! Not playing the JV game is more demoralizing than losing bad!
PS try your best to find more evenly matched competition!
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center
Junior Member
Posts: 484
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Post by center on Sept 26, 2018 12:45:58 GMT -6
Any grade of football player that does not have the motivation of an upcoming game is going to lose interest and numbers quickly. Only a coach can get any joy out of just practicing all year.
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Post by olcoach53 on Sept 26, 2018 13:37:23 GMT -6
Lower level wins are hugely important but I don't think they are more important that players learning to play and learning the offensive and defensive system. I would much rather see improvement over the year as a player than worry about them going 9-0.
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Post by justafbcoach on Sept 27, 2018 7:41:15 GMT -6
I always believe live game reps are invaluable. Even in a blowout, kids need to learn how to continue to play and continue to maintain their composure in an ugly situation. It's not fun, but I think those are reps the kids need in order to prepare for the show on Friday nights.
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