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Post by carookie on Aug 19, 2018 20:00:13 GMT -6
So as a relatively new HC I am still working on this 'coaching the coaches' aspect. This is my second year as the HC, and from day 1 I have given every assistant a complete drill manual that outlines exactly how each drill is to be taught (if they want to discus making any changes that happens from December-March). In addition I have exactly when to teach each drill and for how long spelled out on the practice plan (ex- Getoffs (2Min), double team (4Min).
Last year it all worked out fine but this year I have a new AC who is struggling to keep the pace. He is a good guy, but tends to pause every mistake for a minute long explanation which really slows his position group down. One thing I pride myself on is efficiency and limiting the amount of time players are just standing around in line taking 'mental reps' (we are what we repeatedly do); but I give 27 minutes for Indy time and at the end he usually only gets half way done.
I've met with him and talked to him about 'coaching on the fly', about having two+ kids go at once and being rapid fire, and about trusting the drill. In addition I have starter making announcements mid indy time about how much time is left and where to be. Does anyone else have any other ideas or strategies to help me help him pick up the pace?
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Post by fantom on Aug 19, 2018 20:55:13 GMT -6
You may need to write up a more detailed practice plan. For example: 5:00 Indy Drill A 5:05 Drill B etc.
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Post by carookie on Aug 19, 2018 21:01:03 GMT -6
You may need to write up a more detailed practice plan. For example: 5:00 Indy Drill A 5:05 Drill B etc. I literally have everything listed exactly minute by minute: Catch (3 MIN) Slam (1 MIN) Zone Movements (2 MIN) Breakups (3 MIN) Edge Blitz (1 MIN)..... Which is within the overall Indy time portion 4:31-4:58
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Post by fantom on Aug 19, 2018 21:16:34 GMT -6
You may need to write up a more detailed practice plan. For example: 5:00 Indy Drill A 5:05 Drill B etc. I literally have everything listed exactly minute by minute: Catch (3 MIN) Slam (1 MIN) Zone Movements (2 MIN) Breakups (3 MIN) Edge Blitz (1 MIN)..... Which is within the overall Indy time portion 4:31-4:58 I was afraid of that. How about filming his indy period (from a discreet distance if possible) and sitting down with him to watch and critique?
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Post by chi5hi on Aug 19, 2018 21:30:55 GMT -6
So as a relatively new HC I am still working on this 'coaching the coaches' aspect. This is my second year as the HC, and from day 1 I have given every assistant a complete drill manual that outlines exactly how each drill is to be taught (if they want to discus making any changes that happens from December-March). In addition I have exactly when to teach each drill and for how long spelled out on the practice plan (ex- Getoffs (2Min), double team (4Min). Last year it all worked out fine but this year I have a new AC who is struggling to keep the pace. He is a good guy, but tends to pause every mistake for a minute long explanation which really slows his position group down. One thing I pride myself on is efficiency and limiting the amount of time players are just standing around in line taking 'mental reps' (we are what we repeatedly do); but I give 27 minutes for Indy time and at the end he usually only gets half way done. I've met with him and talked to him about 'coaching on the fly', about having two+ kids go at once and being rapid fire, and about trusting the drill. In addition I have starter making announcements mid indy time about how much time is left and where to be. Does anyone else have any other ideas or strategies to help me help him pick up the pace? So...your AC's are drillers and not teachers who coach a kid to get it right? What if a kid goes full out in the drill but does it wrong? There's no one correcting him, and he takes the wrong way to do things into the game. If I were an AC...I couldn't work that way. I'd rather coach than simply run drills.
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Post by carookie on Aug 19, 2018 21:36:14 GMT -6
So as a relatively new HC I am still working on this 'coaching the coaches' aspect. This is my second year as the HC, and from day 1 I have given every assistant a complete drill manual that outlines exactly how each drill is to be taught (if they want to discus making any changes that happens from December-March). In addition I have exactly when to teach each drill and for how long spelled out on the practice plan (ex- Getoffs (2Min), double team (4Min). Last year it all worked out fine but this year I have a new AC who is struggling to keep the pace. He is a good guy, but tends to pause every mistake for a minute long explanation which really slows his position group down. One thing I pride myself on is efficiency and limiting the amount of time players are just standing around in line taking 'mental reps' (we are what we repeatedly do); but I give 27 minutes for Indy time and at the end he usually only gets half way done. I've met with him and talked to him about 'coaching on the fly', about having two+ kids go at once and being rapid fire, and about trusting the drill. In addition I have starter making announcements mid indy time about how much time is left and where to be. Does anyone else have any other ideas or strategies to help me help him pick up the pace? So...your AC's are drillers and not teachers who coach a kid to get it right?What if a kid goes full out in the drill but does it wrong? There's no one correcting him, and he takes the wrong way to do things into the game. If I were an AC...I couldn't work that way. I'd rather coach than simply run drills. No, coach corrects, just does not pause the whole drill for a minute to correct one player. Coach on the fly and fast. Instead of just having 1 kid go at a time have three. I don't see how utilizing drills makes one a driller and not a teacher. Do you not use drills? I am not saying not to correct, I am saying be efficient in your correction and coach fast.
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Post by chi5hi on Aug 19, 2018 21:59:28 GMT -6
So...your AC's are drillers and not teachers who coach a kid to get it right?What if a kid goes full out in the drill but does it wrong? There's no one correcting him, and he takes the wrong way to do things into the game. If I were an AC...I couldn't work that way. I'd rather coach than simply run drills. No, coach corrects, just does not pause the whole drill for a minute to correct one player. Coach on the fly and fast. Instead of just having 1 kid go at a time have three. I don't see how utilizing drills makes one a driller and not a teacher. Do you not use drills? I am not saying not to correct, I am saying be efficient in your correction and coach fast. I understand. I worked that way one year. I wouldn't do it again.
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Post by carookie on Aug 19, 2018 22:19:54 GMT -6
No, coach corrects, just does not pause the whole drill for a minute to correct one player. Coach on the fly and fast. Instead of just having 1 kid go at a time have three. I don't see how utilizing drills makes one a driller and not a teacher. Do you not use drills? I am not saying not to correct, I am saying be efficient in your correction and coach fast. I understand. I worked that way one year. I wouldn't do it again. I've done it that way for awhile now and it seems to fit best, but I am interested in hearing why you don't like it. Here is my line of thinking: I have always felt the major variable we are against is time (only so many hours in the practice); in addition we are what we repeatedly do- not what we are repeatedly told or watch. Combining those two together the best thing we can have players do is repeatedly perform the fundamental tasks that are most important to their position. When they are wrong, correct them quickly and have them repeat correctly, but after a few weeks those mistakes tend to be minor and not take much correction because they have repeatedly performed the task so often it has become second nature. Moreover, through repetition of the movements they have become more proficient at them and are better able to execute them in a game situation. Sure it ends up being less coach and more player, but I feel that is best. What is it about this that you don't like, don't feel is best for the players, or wouldn't do again?
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Post by Chris Clement on Aug 20, 2018 7:20:56 GMT -6
I feel like there’s a need for balance. A lot of coaches are unwittingly way too slow, and a number of coaches go way too fast intentionally. If you have good meetings beforehand and you film practice and you can review said film you can go a lot faster, but you definitely don’t want a drill done fast but wrong.
He may have too many drills? If you only have ten drills for a group they can learn all the drills in the first three days and then it moves a lot faster. If he’s constantly introducing new drills he’s going to lose time with every new thing.
Is his group young? Maybe he needs to slow down to get them going properly?
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Post by huddlehut on Aug 20, 2018 7:41:33 GMT -6
This is a great topic...and an issue that I struggled with as a head coach for thirty years. I think that much of the way a coach drills and teaches is simply ingrained in his personality. The HC can have some impact and help the assistant to make some improvement, but it takes time (seasons). I agree that reps, movement, intensity is crucial during drill work. The period of standing and listening are horrible! It used to drive me crazy to look down and see players standing around listening to a coach. Although, I'm retired, I'd love to know if someone's ever been able to make changes in his assistants drilling and teaching methods. I almost think that "you get it or you don't."
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Post by coachtua on Aug 20, 2018 7:59:17 GMT -6
Last season we had a veteran OL group. Indy period for them was quick, up tempo, lots of reps. This season is a ton more teaching and correcting. We are a boarding school and so we don't see our kids until we open camp in August.
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Post by wingtol on Aug 20, 2018 8:12:41 GMT -6
What position does he coach? As a veteran OL coach I know there were times just this camp where we didn't get to everything that I wanted to in our indy periods.
Are you putting to much on the schedule drill wise for his group? Are they younger players prone to make more mistakes early in the season? Do the numbers of guys he is working with line up with how much time you are giving him? Just a few things that may need looked at.
The one example you give above has a drill for 1 minute, is that enough time especially if the guy is new. Personally one minute for a drill seems pretty quick to me.
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Post by silkyice on Aug 20, 2018 8:16:05 GMT -6
It is August. You can’t go fast until they are doing it right. Don’t waste time. Don’t spend all your time correcting just one thing or one person. But, the first days should be making sure they are doing it right.
Then you can coach on the fly.
This is the reason practices get shorter as the season goes on.
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Post by familyman56 on Aug 20, 2018 8:24:34 GMT -6
A good pacing technique for drills I've used this year is to have "one in the chamber, one in the clip" for guys holding bags ie always have two shields in each drill line, one in the drill, one in reserve, ready to go into the next rep. This allows the next bag guy to be ready immediately, at the same giving time for the prior rep to exchange the bag. Eliminates going directly from a drill rep to bag guy, giving a slight rest to be able to give a better effort or look. I believe I picked it up from NE Patriots OL coach's COOL clinic talk on YouTube.
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Post by fkaboneyard on Aug 20, 2018 8:25:52 GMT -6
Ideally you have an O-line coach and he has an assistant (in our program it's a kid that just graduated) to help with this stuff but that's not always possible. The drill shouldn't grind to a halt for the AC to help one kid fix something unless every (or at least most) kid is struggling with it. If most guys are having a tough time I will slow the whole thing and we will re-set. I typically have my best guy go first so that the younger/less refined guys can see how it should look. Then if the younger/less refined guys need help the veterans can coach them up while the next in line goes.
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Post by fantom on Aug 20, 2018 8:27:56 GMT -6
During the first two days of pre-season we will have some standing around in indy. The reason is that when I'm teaching a technique I want to make sure that the players understand why we do things that way. After that it's easy to coach on the run but you can't do that until they understand the technique.
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klaby
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Post by klaby on Aug 20, 2018 8:33:28 GMT -6
Sounds like you micromanage....and that will kill your staff. Give them the indy time and let them do what you hired them to do, coach that group. I have never heard of a HC giving me my drill manual, usually i give him a copy of what my everyday drills will be, but i adjust based on performance. If we are struggling with teh sprint out, we will do drills that help that, if we are struggling with escape again i will add drills to help with that.
Basically what you are telling them is I know everything and you know nothing. There is a reason why you have group coaches, so they can specialize at that position and develop drills that help that position. You cant know everything even if you think you do.
Let them coach.
Now during team time and group practice (Skelly, inside run ect) yea you can manage that. We take notes on the script then go over the issues during indy the next day or when the kid comes out for a few reps.
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Post by carookie on Aug 20, 2018 8:39:14 GMT -6
I feel like there’s a need for balance. A lot of coaches are unwittingly way too slow, and a number of coaches go way too fast intentionally. If you have good meetings beforehand and you film practice and you can review said film you can go a lot faster, but you definitely don’t want a drill done fast but wrong. He may have too many drills? If you only have ten drills for a group they can learn all the drills in the first three days and then it moves a lot faster. If he’s constantly introducing new drills he’s going to lose time with every new thing. Is his group young? Maybe he needs to slow down to get them going properly? He has 8-9 drills (pending Offense or Defense). His O group is a little younger than most, his D group is a little older. The more I think about it, the more I think he struggles with the whole idea of breaking down a movement into components, and wants everything to be whole movement; so he turns what should be a partial movement drill into a full movement activity. This contradicts our instructional outline: partial movement, stimuli, whole movement, combined.
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Post by carookie on Aug 20, 2018 8:41:25 GMT -6
What position does he coach? As a veteran OL coach I know there were times just this camp where we didn't get to everything that I wanted to in our indy periods. Are you putting to much on the schedule drill wise for his group? Are they younger players prone to make more mistakes early in the season? Do the numbers of guys he is working with line up with how much time you are giving him? Just a few things that may need looked at. The one example you give above has a drill for 1 minute, is that enough time especially if the guy is new. Personally one minute for a drill seems pretty quick to me. He has WRs & DBs. 1 Minute for stances and get offs tends to work. I hate to be 'that guy' but I had the groups last season and easily got everything in in less time- so though I know it is my system and I understand it better I know it can be effectively taught.
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Post by carookie on Aug 20, 2018 8:47:49 GMT -6
Sounds like you micromanage....and that will kill your staff. Give them the indy time and let them do what you hired them to do, coach that group. I have never heard of a HC giving me my drill manual, usually i give him a copy of what my everyday drills will be, but i adjust based on performance. If we are struggling with teh sprint out, we will do drills that help that, if we are struggling with escape again i will add drills to help with that. Basically what you are telling them is I know everything and you know nothing. There is a reason why you have group coaches, so they can specialize at that position and develop drills that help that position. You cant know everything even if you think you do. Let them coach. Now during team time and group practice (Skelly, inside run ect) yea you can manage that. We take notes on the script then go over the issues during indy the next day or when the kid comes out for a few reps. Thats fair, although I look at it this way- I devised the system, the techniques should fit the system, and drills should fit the technique. Example: if he is out there doing a back pedal drill that would be useless because we don't backpedal. I open up January-March to review anything and everything we do; if you feel we would be better off doing something different then we can discuss it then, and if we decide to change we make the change before spring ball and stick with it. It could be what he wants to do, it could not be, but in the end when the plan is laid out we all need to run with it. If that is micro managing so be it, but I believe you have an organized plan and stick with it. This specific coach did not start until mid summer, so I told him I expect him to do what has already been planned out.
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klaby
Junior Member
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Post by klaby on Aug 20, 2018 10:58:43 GMT -6
Sounds like you micromanage....and that will kill your staff. Give them the indy time and let them do what you hired them to do, coach that group. I have never heard of a HC giving me my drill manual, usually i give him a copy of what my everyday drills will be, but i adjust based on performance. If we are struggling with teh sprint out, we will do drills that help that, if we are struggling with escape again i will add drills to help with that. Basically what you are telling them is I know everything and you know nothing. There is a reason why you have group coaches, so they can specialize at that position and develop drills that help that position. You cant know everything even if you think you do. Let them coach. Now during team time and group practice (Skelly, inside run ect) yea you can manage that. We take notes on the script then go over the issues during indy the next day or when the kid comes out for a few reps. Thats fair, although I look at it this way- I devised the system, the techniques should fit the system, and drills should fit the technique. Example: if he is out there doing a back pedal drill that would be useless because we don't backpedal. I open up January-March to review anything and everything we do; if you feel we would be better off doing something different then we can discuss it then, and if we decide to change we make the change before spring ball and stick with it. It could be what he wants to do, it could not be, but in the end when the plan is laid out we all need to run with it. If that is micro managing so be it, but I believe you have an organized plan and stick with it. This specific coach did not start until mid summer, so I told him I expect him to do what has already been planned out. Yes i agree your ever day drills must fit your system. You dont do option pitch drill if you dont run option. So is your issue is that he is too slow in teaching? or is it he is running drills that are not part of your system? Those are separate issues. Your post says "pick up the pace". Fast pace practices are great, but not at the expense of doing it right. Running through a drill because you have to get to the next drill when your kids dont do the 1st drill right doesn't help you get better, just means you ran a lot of drills. Your team coach you coach it however you want. But micromanagement kills every organization eventually. If you give your coach's ownership and hold them accountable for performance i think you will be happy with the end result. Remember everyone has a plan, until the bullets start flying, then that plan turns to Sh&* and you have to be able to react and adjust. Sticking to your practice timeline is more important than the number of drills you run in that timeline. a Few Good reps are always better than a bunch of bad ones.
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Post by eagle1985 on Aug 20, 2018 11:10:57 GMT -6
but I give 27 minutes for Indy time and at the end he usually only gets half way done. If he can't get the job done in 27 mins. that is a serious problem. I have never had more than ten usually more like 5.
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Post by carookie on Aug 20, 2018 11:14:44 GMT -6
Thats fair, although I look at it this way- I devised the system, the techniques should fit the system, and drills should fit the technique. Example: if he is out there doing a back pedal drill that would be useless because we don't backpedal. I open up January-March to review anything and everything we do; if you feel we would be better off doing something different then we can discuss it then, and if we decide to change we make the change before spring ball and stick with it. It could be what he wants to do, it could not be, but in the end when the plan is laid out we all need to run with it. If that is micro managing so be it, but I believe you have an organized plan and stick with it. This specific coach did not start until mid summer, so I told him I expect him to do what has already been planned out. Yes i agree your ever day drills must fit your system. You dont do option pitch drill if you dont run option. So is your issue is that he is too slow in teaching? or is it he is running drills that are not part of your system? Those are separate issues. Your post says "pick up the pace". Fast pace practices are great, but not at the expense of doing it right. Running through a drill because you have to get to the next drill when your kids dont do the 1st drill right doesn't help you get better, just means you ran a lot of drills. Your team coach you coach it however you want. But micromanagement kills every organization eventually. If you give your coach's ownership and hold them accountable for performance i think you will be happy with the end result. Remember everyone has a plan, until the bullets start flying, then that plan turns to Sh&* and you have to be able to react and adjust. Sticking to your practice timeline is more important than the number of drills you run in that timeline. a Few Good reps are always better than a bunch of bad ones. Its mostly him getting bogged down with a small mistake. One kid takes a bad angle on a block and instead of having the kid get back and do it again- and explaining or showing him the issue while he is moving, he has everyone stop. Walks out and does the whole drill himself, adds a speech at the end about it, and then has the player repeat the drill. He struggles to get through half of what needs to be done, and player end up getting "no reps" at specific skill developments
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Post by coachddwebb on Aug 20, 2018 11:20:24 GMT -6
Something I heard that I really like is " Don't practice until you get it right practice until you can't get it wrong." It may take a little longer to run the drills, but in the end your group are doing the drill correctly is the most important part. Have you thought about starting out with less drills and as the group gets better add more drills.
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klaby
Junior Member
Posts: 389
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Post by klaby on Aug 20, 2018 11:21:17 GMT -6
Yes i agree your ever day drills must fit your system. You dont do option pitch drill if you dont run option. So is your issue is that he is too slow in teaching? or is it he is running drills that are not part of your system? Those are separate issues. Your post says "pick up the pace". Fast pace practices are great, but not at the expense of doing it right. Running through a drill because you have to get to the next drill when your kids dont do the 1st drill right doesn't help you get better, just means you ran a lot of drills. Your team coach you coach it however you want. But micromanagement kills every organization eventually. If you give your coach's ownership and hold them accountable for performance i think you will be happy with the end result. Remember everyone has a plan, until the bullets start flying, then that plan turns to Sh&* and you have to be able to react and adjust. Sticking to your practice timeline is more important than the number of drills you run in that timeline. a Few Good reps are always better than a bunch of bad ones. Its mostly him getting bogged down with a small mistake. One kid takes a bad angle on a block and instead of having the kid get back and do it again- and explaining or showing him the issue while he is moving, he has everyone stop. Walks out and does the whole drill himself, adds a speech at the end about it, and then has the player repeat the drill. He struggles to get through half of what needs to be done, and player end up getting "no reps" at specific skill developments Yea then you need to discuss with him the need to keep drill moving and coach that one kid fast on the side and get him back in. good luck....
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Post by carookie on Aug 20, 2018 11:31:10 GMT -6
Something I heard that I really like is " Don't practice until you get it right practice until you can't get it wrong." It may take a little longer to run the drills, but in the end your group are doing the drill correctly is the most important part. Have you thought about starting out with less drills and as the group gets better add more drills. I really like that saying too, to me though it means that we will continue doing a drill or working on a skill throughout the entire season. There is no way I could practice my LB reads long enough in any given practice so that we "can't get it wrong", we can practice them all year and still couldn't get to that level. To me, that saying means we always work on the small stuff all year, not just stopping when we get good at them- like Tiger Woods working on short putts or Larry Bird on free throws
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Post by pitt1980 on Aug 20, 2018 12:17:27 GMT -6
Does the coach have any meeting time outside of practice where he can teach the points he wants to get across? Are the drills filmed such that he can point out what he wants to teach at such a meeting?
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Post by carookie on Aug 20, 2018 12:39:49 GMT -6
Does the coach have any meeting time outside of practice where he can teach the points he wants to get across? Are the drills filmed such that he can point out what he wants to teach at such a meeting? Nah, small private school that wouldnt be down for the extra time and he is off campus
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Post by pitt1980 on Aug 20, 2018 13:07:53 GMT -6
Does the coach have any meeting time outside of practice where he can teach the points he wants to get across? Are the drills filmed such that he can point out what he wants to teach at such a meeting? Nah, small private school that wouldnt be down for the extra time and he is off campus
Yeah, that's tough,
sounds like you just have a philosophical conflict,
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Not sure this is a good solution or not, just an idea
if you want to give him some leeway to try things his way....
If he has coaching point he wants to make, you could try to have him give them 1 on 1 to the specific guy he wants to make the point to, don't stop the whole group, keep the drill going for the whole group, while he give his correction to the one guy who he's trying to correct
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Post by pitt1980 on Aug 20, 2018 13:31:49 GMT -6
I understand. I worked that way one year. I wouldn't do it again. I've done it that way for awhile now and it seems to fit best, but I am interested in hearing why you don't like it. Here is my line of thinking: I have always felt the major variable we are against is time (only so many hours in the practice); in addition we are what we repeatedly do- not what we are repeatedly told or watch. Combining those two together the best thing we can have players do is repeatedly perform the fundamental tasks that are most important to their position. When they are wrong, correct them quickly and have them repeat correctly, but after a few weeks those mistakes tend to be minor and not take much correction because they have repeatedly performed the task so often it has become second nature. Moreover, through repetition of the movements they have become more proficient at them and are better able to execute them in a game situation. Sure it ends up being less coach and more player, but I feel that is best. What is it about this that you don't like, don't feel is best for the players, or wouldn't do again?
Have you explained it to him like that? I'm curious how old this coach is, it sounds like he hasn't bought into this philosophy (which leaves your options somewhere around selling your philosophy or commanding your philosophy [obviously, the benefit of selling it is that you can avoid the friction that commanding it will bring])
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