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Post by silkyice on Aug 12, 2018 17:52:26 GMT -6
AS ALWAYS, There is more to the story. Thanks for filling us in. The school population is 74% Hispanic. Also, as Jerry said, they're a smaller school in an area loaded with state powers. And the football players transferred out. So this has nothing to do with concussions, cte, fortnite, girls, wussification of America, Trump, Obama, Stormy, or coaching. It just is what it is.
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Post by gccwolverine on Aug 13, 2018 5:31:15 GMT -6
The school population is 74% Hispanic. Also, as Jerry said, they're a smaller school in an area loaded with state powers. And the football players transferred out. So this has nothing to do with concussions, cte, fortnite, girls, wussification of America, Trump, Obama, Stormy, or coaching. It just is what it is. As is almost always the case..... The sky is not falling, now someone tell chicken little.... I mean Larrymoe.
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Post by blb on Aug 13, 2018 5:54:11 GMT -6
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Post by larrymoe on Aug 13, 2018 8:08:25 GMT -6
You guys are unbelievable.
Carry on. Nothing to see here.
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Post by blb on Aug 13, 2018 8:33:34 GMT -6
Facts, as they say, is facts.
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Post by fantom on Aug 13, 2018 9:09:22 GMT -6
OK, my opinion: I don't necessarily think that football is dying but numbers are down and probably won't be going up dramatically. Besides the demographic changes I feel that there are several reasons, most of which have been mentioned.
1. Other options. When I was in HS we had four sports: football, basketball, baseball, and golf. Now, the school has three sports in the fall alone. If you want to participate in athletics in the fall it does not have to be football. Then there are the off-field distractions. Back in the day there was no particular hurry to get home because there wasn't chit do to. There were no video games and there were only three channels on TV, all of which were showing soap operas.
2. Specialization. Half of our basketball players were football players at my HS. Almost the whole baseball team was. Now, at my most recent school, only a few basketball players and almost no baseball players also play football. They're too busy with summer league and fall ball.
3. Off-season demands. When I see what some football programs demand-6 AM workouts, four hour summer practices, etc.- I wonder how you get anybody to play football. We had a good off-season program for the prehistoric period when I played. Those baseball players, though, when did they lift? After baseball season. Nobody even considered demanding that they com in at 0 Dark-thirty AM.
4. Money. How many kids don't play because their parents are unwilling or unable to play participation fees and buy shoes and spirit packs? We got one book of booster club raffle tickets to sell. Kids nowadays seem to be fund-raising 12 months out of the year.
Fear of CTE probably plays a role but IMO, most kids who cite that as a reason for not playing would only find another reason if CTE didn't exist.
The bottom line to me is that fewer kids are playing football because it's never been harder to play the game.
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Post by larrymoe on Aug 13, 2018 11:28:24 GMT -6
Facts, as they say, is facts. And the facts say that 3 million kids have left the game over 10 years and varsity teams are struggling to fill teams, let alone Fr or JV, but hey, there's no problem.
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Post by blb on Aug 13, 2018 15:19:50 GMT -6
Facts, as they say, is facts. And the facts say that 3 million kids have left the game over 10 years and varsity teams are struggling to fill teams, let alone Fr or JV, but hey, there's no problem.
Perhaps you could try to address the declining enrollment K-12 nationwide as a possible causal factor for the "3 million kids that have left the game over 10 years."
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Post by larrymoe on Aug 13, 2018 17:29:59 GMT -6
And the facts say that 3 million kids have left the game over 10 years and varsity teams are struggling to fill teams, let alone Fr or JV, but hey, there's no problem.
Perhaps you could try to address the declining enrollment K-12 nationwide as a possible causal factor for the "3 million kids that have left the game over 10 years."
Enrollment has not dropped proportionate to the drop in kids playing football. You'd need to drop enrollment almost 5 million kids to explain an almost 40% drop in football participation. Births have dropped 2-5% while football participation dropped 40. That's not the reason.
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Post by blb on Aug 14, 2018 6:23:35 GMT -6
Kids who weren't born-aren't in school can't play Football or anything else.
Your 39% figure by itself is misleading.
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Post by fantom on Aug 15, 2018 10:06:18 GMT -6
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Post by gccwolverine on Aug 15, 2018 12:39:07 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2018 11:26:41 GMT -6
This is a good point. Birth rates move in cycles and the fertility rate of native born Americans (the ones who are likely to play football and other sports) has dropped significantly in the last 10 years. Youth leagues felt this this first, but now it's catching up to HS sports in many areas with the freshman and sophomore classes.
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Post by 54695469 on Aug 18, 2018 17:25:25 GMT -6
I'm not disagreeing with y'all...but the numbers aren't dropping in the South. Send like there are more kids than never playing football! Programs are demanding more, stadiums getting bigger, coaches making more money, more exposure on TV etc... Not saying that all of that is good.
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Post by fantom on Aug 18, 2018 17:55:39 GMT -6
I'm not disagreeing with y'all...but the numbers aren't dropping in the South. Send like there are more kids than never playing football! Programs are demanding more, stadiums getting bigger, coaches making more money, more exposure on TV etc... Not saying that so of that I'd good. Virginia's in the south.
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Post by 54695469 on Aug 18, 2018 20:02:07 GMT -6
Well, you're right... I guess I meant the south, South. To me living in the South is when you have to drive North to get to almost anywhere else.
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Post by IronmanFootball on Aug 19, 2018 8:03:56 GMT -6
OK, my opinion: I don't necessarily think that football is dying but numbers are down and probably won't be going up dramatically. Besides the demographic changes I feel that there are several reasons, most of which have been mentioned. 1. Other options. When I was in HS we had four sports: football, basketball, baseball, and golf. Now, the school has three sports in the fall alone. If you want to participate in athletics in the fall it does not have to be football. Then there are the off-field distractions. Back in the day there was no particular hurry to get home because there wasn't chit do to. There were no video games and there were only three channels on TV, all of which were showing soap operas. 2. Specialization. Half of our basketball players were football players at my HS. Almost the whole baseball team was. Now, at my most recent school, only a few basketball players and almost no baseball players also play football. They're too busy with summer league and fall ball. 3. Off-season demands. When I see what some football programs demand-6 AM workouts, four hour summer practices, etc.- I wonder how you get anybody to play football. We had a good off-season program for the prehistoric period when I played. Those baseball players, though, when did they lift? After baseball season. Nobody even considered demanding that they com in at 0 Dark-thirty AM. 4. Money. How many kids don't play because their parents are unwilling or unable to play participation fees and buy shoes and spirit packs? We got one book of booster club raffle tickets to sell. Kids nowadays seem to be fund-raising 12 months out of the year. Fear of CTE probably plays a role but IMO, most kids who cite that as a reason for not playing would only find another reason if CTE didn't exist. The bottom line to me is that fewer kids are playing football because it's never been harder to play the game. Preach on. Hopefully every sport is doing some form of weight training, speed camp, and agility work. Even if it's not great at least do some. I've been at too many stops where baseball, basketball, track, soccer, and wrasslin don't lift a single weight for their 4 month period.
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Post by throwahitch on Aug 19, 2018 11:43:51 GMT -6
The adults are the problem ultimately. Ultimately a lot of coaches are trying to replicate guys at the highest levels and obviously it's mot apples for apples. The adults in the room need to look in the mirror. Cross town has numbers relatively speaking, we do not..reason? "Disciplne" pending how you look at it and not necessarily the way to think. Yep. It’s too many peoples lives. Guys we can not hold these kids feet to the fire the way the coaches who are paying for these kids college can.
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Post by throwahitch on Aug 19, 2018 11:45:36 GMT -6
@grad17 Your last two posts add nothing constructive at all to the discussions. Please keep the snark to yourself. I think it just illustrates why some kids don’t want to play anymore. The coaches take not going 7 days a week in the summer as rolling out the ball on Friday nights.
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Post by throwahitch on Aug 19, 2018 11:47:09 GMT -6
I run 2 other forums (3 actually but 1 isn't up and running yet) The same topic has been brought up on both numerous times, on both boards, i've seen it discussed on several others, and have personally talked with probably 20 other coaches who feel similar If the sport isn't "dying" it's certainly changing enough that people all over are noticing, and coincidentally asking the same question Why? .. probably because for once its facing issues from all sides, its not just 1 issue facing the sport. I think the game will stand, but I think it may get to the point where it changes so much long term coaches may not want to be involved down the road, because to them its not Football anymore. I’ve said this too. I’m not coaching 7on7 year round.
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Post by throwahitch on Aug 19, 2018 11:48:58 GMT -6
"This year-round crap is for the birds" My retirement speech (OK, I never actually said it but I thought it). At times I wonder if there might be shift in HS football back to doing less organized offseason stuff. There's so much marketing ramping up in 7 on 7 and camps now, but it's wearing kids out. Football is trying to be more like basketball and baseball with year round activities and constant practices because companies see dollar signs and grinders are always going to find new ways to grind... but the demands of the sport are such that you can't really suit up and play outside of a few months in the fall and maybe a couple of weeks in spring. Eventually you have to look at what is actually going to build up numbers and players and be effective at making you competitive when the season starts and what's just going to burn kids out and run them off. I feel like in 5-10 years, HS football will still exist, but there'll be a lot more emphasis on 7 on 7 and private coaches for the truly motivated/stud athletes and the HS teams will mostly just lift in the offseason, have spring practice that will basically be little more than 7 on 7, and then get together in July for practice with very little hitting. I also feel like you'll see the talent divide in the sport increased along rich and poor and a lot more 6 man and 8 man ball played by the smaller schools to compensate for lower numbers and money. I agree football is trying to copy baseball and basketball. Yet we don’t get to play any real games during the summer. We will lose that right
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Post by fantom on Aug 19, 2018 12:43:35 GMT -6
Yep. It’s too many peoples lives. Guys we can not hold these kids feet to the fire the way the coaches who are paying for these kids college can. A lot of coaches do not hold themselves to the same account as they hold the kids A lot of coaches could never work or be coached by the guy looking at them in mirror. To a lot of coaches its a part their lives, not their life. I am not knocking those guys, just don't hold the kids to the higher standard. I think full 12 mo. A year fb is fine if you fill that time meaningfully. Most coaches cannot do it 3 mo. A year much less 12. Man, I don't know where you've coached but I'm glad I've never worked at the places you've described.
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Post by throwahitch on Aug 19, 2018 15:14:00 GMT -6
Yep. It’s too many peoples lives. Guys we can not hold these kids feet to the fire the way the coaches who are paying for these kids college can. A lot of coaches do not hold themselves to the same account as they hold the kids A lot of coaches could never work or be coached by the guy looking at them in mirror. To a lot of coaches its a part their lives, not their life. I am not knocking those guys, just don't hold the kids to the higher standard. I think full 12 mo. A year fb is fine if you fill that time meaningfully. Most coaches cannot do it 3 mo. A year much less 12. Me personally believe it can be a coaches life, but too many want to make it a 16 year olds. We’re losing the kids who don’t want to make it their entire life for 4 years.
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Post by larrymoe on Aug 19, 2018 16:31:45 GMT -6
If coaching football is your life, you need to reevaluate your life IMO.
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Post by stilltryin on Aug 19, 2018 16:37:45 GMT -6
Man, I don't know where you've coached but I'm glad I've never worked at the places you've described. This is everywhere here in GA. Where I work now is not the exception. Lot of guys doing for extra cash and other nefarious reasons. Doing it for the extra cash? I guess the pay scale is different where you are. None of the guys I coach with ... good coaches, who care about kids and the program and the school ... do this for the money. If they were, they'd be better off bagging groceries.
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Post by coachd5085 on Aug 19, 2018 17:01:19 GMT -6
This is everywhere here in GA. Where I work now is not the exception. Lot of guys doing for extra cash and other nefarious reasons. Doing it for the extra cash? I guess the pay scale is different where you are. None of the guys I coach with ... good coaches, who care about kids and the program and the school ... do this for the money. If they were, they'd be better off bagging groceries. I think that is @grad17 's complaint. That guys are "doing it for extra cash" means that they aren't really putting in the time/effort that makes it a negative financial decision for most.
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Post by gccwolverine on Aug 19, 2018 23:09:01 GMT -6
If coaching football is your life, you need to reevaluate your life IMO. I'd rather have coaching football be my life than selling cars, or being a tellemarketer, or working in a facotry or pretty much anyother gig in the world. I'm absolutely certain I'd be absolutely miserable doing anything else with my life. No reason to reevaluate here.
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Post by blb on Aug 20, 2018 6:40:17 GMT -6
If coaching football is your life, you need to reevaluate your life IMO. I'd rather have coaching football be my life than selling cars, or being a tellemarketer, or working in a facotry or pretty much anyother gig in the world. I'm absolutely certain I'd be absolutely miserable doing anything else with my life. No reason to reevaluate here.
I don't think larrymoe was referencing one's profession by "your life."
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Post by silkyice on Aug 20, 2018 10:12:47 GMT -6
Doing it for the extra cash? I guess the pay scale is different where you are. None of the guys I coach with ... good coaches, who care about kids and the program and the school ... do this for the money. If they were, they'd be better off bagging groceries. I coach with guys who "care about the kids." But when we turn on the practice and game film, They cannot make that statement. You need to find another place to coach. Not all staffs are like yours. Find one that values hard work and join it. I really do hate that you are in a bad place and wish you the best on your search for a new school after the season is over.
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Post by silkyice on Aug 20, 2018 10:27:36 GMT -6
You need to find another place to coach. Not all staffs are like yours. Find one that values hard work and join it. I really do hate that you are in a bad place and wish you the best on your search for a new school after the season is over. I see it on film every week, and not just ours. The problem is just here, the problem is pretty wide spread. What state and region do you coach? These are 16-18 year olds. They do make mistakes.
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