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Post by fantom on Aug 9, 2018 13:12:51 GMT -6
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Post by utchuckd on Aug 9, 2018 13:17:22 GMT -6
The local high school has 1800 students and less than 40 out for football for all (9-12) grades. We're starting to hear talk of it shutting down if numbers don't improve.
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Post by coachfitz on Aug 9, 2018 13:22:26 GMT -6
It worries me. CTE research is always the go-to reason but I think it's much larger than that. I worry for the video game generation.
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Post by carookie on Aug 9, 2018 13:49:52 GMT -6
It worries me. CTE research is always the go-to reason but I think it's much larger than that. I worry for the video game generation. I am not claiming this is you by any means, but I have a buddy who coaches at a small school (about 200) who is struggling to field a team (about 16). I was talking to him about it and the troublesome part is he refuses to address any issues that might be impacting his situation. He claims its all this soft video game culture (although we played video games 25 years ago too). He claims that concussions are a non issue (only a problem for guys in the NFL, otherwise he and his buddies would be struggling now) and refuses to do baseline testing. All the while relying on drills banned for safety reasons, and multi mile runs in gear. His practices tend to be a lot of standing around getting yelled at, followed by running then more getting yelled at. My point being, WE have to offer something great for these kids and not just blame them/society for dwindling numbers. Note I am not writing we make it easy, just be logical and engaging.
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Post by CoachUndershirt on Aug 9, 2018 13:50:26 GMT -6
It's easy to stay at home and play frickin' Fortnite than play football. Had a kid show up for the first time yesterday, he didn't get many reps because well... I have kids who have been working all summer that need in too and guess he decided that since he isn't working with the #1's he is just going to quit rather than work his way up the depth chart.
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Post by larrymoe on Aug 9, 2018 13:59:43 GMT -6
Football is dying and it has nothing to do with CTE or video games or even us as coaches. Kids and society are different and I don't know how you can continue to argue kids are the same as they've always been. They're not, and their changes in attitudes, culture, values, mores, etc are being felt in extracurricular sports with football being the most visible because it takes the most people to play it.
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Post by blb on Aug 9, 2018 14:23:56 GMT -6
Football is dying and it has nothing to do with CTE or video games or even us as coaches. Kids and society are different and I don't know how you can continue to argue kids are the same as they've always been. They're not, and their changes in attitudes, culture, values, mores, etc are being felt in extracurricular sports with football being the most visible because it takes the most people to play it.
Wouldn't say "it has nothing to do with CTE or video games or even us as coaches."
Your points are well-taken but from experience all of the things you cite are having an affect, like it or not.
But yes, I see numbers dropping in other sports too.
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Post by adawg2302 on Aug 9, 2018 14:42:25 GMT -6
As one of our assistants says, "Football is hard work. Its fun, but hard work."
Each one of us (coaches on staff) enjoyed different aspects of the game that made it fun. One coach always talks about the adrenaline rush of taking the field Friday nights. I enjoyed the contact part of it. Another coach loved scoring TD's, etc...I think the same thing could be said about each coach, and what aspect of the game they enjoyed the most (enjoyed it enough to put in the work, commitment, etc...). If I didn't have fun (enjoy) playing the game, I wouldn't have played it.
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Post by wiscoach on Aug 9, 2018 14:46:18 GMT -6
"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love socializing in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households."
Socrates, 2400 years ago.
Kids are Kids are Kids. They might like Fortnite but there is something ingrained in young men to love competition. The video games give a false sense of accomplishment, happy hormones that would have taken much more effort to attain in the past. I don't think they are a problem IN MODERATION.
If the kids are consuming media/video games NOT in moderation that is a parenting issue, which IMO is always the issue with nearly every child in nearly every situation.
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Post by fantom on Aug 9, 2018 15:17:07 GMT -6
"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love socializing in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households." Socrates, 2400 years ago. "This year-round crap is for the birds" My retirement speech (OK, I never actually said it but I thought it).
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Post by coachfitz on Aug 9, 2018 16:26:43 GMT -6
It worries me. CTE research is always the go-to reason but I think it's much larger than that. I worry for the video game generation. I am not claiming this is you by any means, but I have a buddy who coaches at a small school (about 200) who is struggling to field a team (about 16). I was talking to him about it and the troublesome part is he refuses to address any issues that might be impacting his situation. He claims its all this soft video game culture (although we played video games 25 years ago too). He claims that concussions are a non issue (only a problem for guys in the NFL, otherwise he and his buddies would be struggling now) and refuses to do baseline testing. All the while relying on drills banned for safety reasons, and multi mile runs in gear. His practices tend to be a lot of standing around getting yelled at, followed by running then more getting yelled at. My point being, WE have to offer something great for these kids and not just blame them/society for dwindling numbers. Note I am not writing we make it easy, just be logical and engaging. No I hear you. I'm lucky enough to be in a program with 100+ kids that has seen success in recent years. My comments weren't an observation of my own situation, but the climate as a whole as I continue to read tweets about declining numbers. I'm in no way downplaying the Concussion narrative; I think it's a real problem if not addressed. I also don't know many coaches who would disagree with that statement and haven't changed the way they coach/teach the game to address these concerns. I've personally had concussions and taken hits that I know I shouldn't have ignored, but I look at the game now and think we've done a good job as a community in making the game as safe as it can be while remaining recognizable. However, I also think there is a tendency to chalk up declining numbers to this problem ALONE without looking at other reasons why there are less kids waking up at the crack of dawn all summer to go push themselves physically and mentally.
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Post by wiscoach on Aug 9, 2018 16:58:36 GMT -6
"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love socializing in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households." Socrates, 2400 years ago. "This year-round crap is for the birds" My retirement speech (OK, I never actually said it but I thought it). I completely agree with that sentiment. I'm in WI, and we get 5 days in the 9 month off season to coach football, and I like it that way. No spring ball or anything like it. Barely any 7 on 7 around me. My team will have the leading passer in our conference and we'll probably throw for 1500 yards (which may actually be a school record lol) so country cover 3 and cover 1 are all we'll install all year. Football gets to be fun and simple.
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Post by freezeoption on Aug 9, 2018 17:38:29 GMT -6
We have made it a monster that will either die or change. We demand a lot of time to where it is almost year round. In high school in the 80s we didn't do anything. We moved the cages to different kids houses and they put them in the garage and we went in and lifted when we could. My first job as a hfc in Idaho the rule was we could only work with three kids at a time in the summer. We basically did seven on seven and I would tell a couple of kids what to do and then I would watch them from a window inside the school as they ran around outside. Now it is a whole different beast and if your not making fun or having success they are not going to do it.
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Post by larrymoe on Aug 9, 2018 18:12:36 GMT -6
Football is dying and it has nothing to do with CTE or video games or even us as coaches. Kids and society are different and I don't know how you can continue to argue kids are the same as they've always been. They're not, and their changes in attitudes, culture, values, mores, etc are being felt in extracurricular sports with football being the most visible because it takes the most people to play it.
Wouldn't say "it has nothing to do with CTE or video games or even us as coaches."
Your points are well-taken but from experience all of the things you cite are having an affect, like it or not.
But yes, I see numbers dropping in other sports too.
I don't think those things are a cause in the drop, I think they're excuses you hear. I don't think more than 10% of the kids that are quitting even consider those as reasons until someone asks them why.
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Post by larrymoe on Aug 9, 2018 18:17:48 GMT -6
"This year-round crap is for the birds" My retirement speech (OK, I never actually said it but I thought it). I completely agree with that sentiment. I'm in WI, and we get 5 days in the 9 month off season to coach football, and I like it that way. No spring ball or anything like it. Barely any 7 on 7 around me. My team will have the leading passer in our conference and we'll probably throw for 1500 yards (which may actually be a school record lol) so country cover 3 and cover 1 are all we'll install all year. Football gets to be fun and simple. Coached at a school like that for 4 years and it was fantastic. Then we cooped 2 of those years and it got progressively worse as we were caught in a power struggle between 2 districts who hated each other. I wouldn't trade those 4 years for anything though. I hope you guys get to keep it simple and pure.
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Post by coachks on Aug 9, 2018 20:18:38 GMT -6
I think it's a lot easier to blame concussions and fortnite then it is to take a look in the mirror at what we have done as a profession to high school football. The kids didn't create all-summer 7 on 7 schedules. They didn't create "non-mandatory" weights at 6 a.m. They aren't the ones who started going around calling each other soft because they went on vacation in a week of June instead of the dead-week that we handed out on a calendar in February, because god forbid a 15 year old goes on a family vacation when he could be lifting weights and going to a 7 on 7. They aren't the ones who started running a high school program like a college program.
My last season was playing 2004. We lifted 3 days a week out of season starting after Christmas (more or less). Had 7 on 7 one night a week in summer (maybe 4 total times?) and then 1 3-day camp. JV's were encouraged but not really expected to go to anything but camp.
We now go essentially 4 days a week the entire summer. There's no comparison in time commitment. And there are programs around us that do more then that.
Now we act shocked that as the opportunity cost of playing football has gone up, there are fewer kids interested. Football isn't alone in that, basically all sports are year-round. Baseball is essentially impossible to work around now (showcase ball is all consuming). AAU basketball is it's own monster and the school team will have practice on top of the AAU practice. You might be talking 10 practices a week for a 2-sport athlete in the summer. It's nuts.
That's not even counting camps and combines - because a scholarship is now are only measure of validity in an athlete. It's easy to blame the kids or parents, but how many coaches go around bragging about how many guys they put in school? How many coaches used to leverage those kids for college jobs (obviously harder now with the rule change). How many coaches just like being the big shot with all the college coaches in the office to talk about their kids.
"We" have effectively turned high school ball (many sports, not just football) into a college feeder system - except the kids aren't getting a college education, room and board for it. About half of them get to stand around in the sun all summer as the scout team OL, getting killed and then the coach yells at him for not being able to read the card. Yea, it sucked when I played too, but atleast it was 12 weeks and not 25.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 4:53:28 GMT -6
Oxbridge Academy and nationally ranked Powerhouse in Florida just cancelled their season for the same reasons sighting mass Exodus
They are saying they are unsure if theyll ever have it back either
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Post by wingtol on Aug 10, 2018 6:51:48 GMT -6
We can be a funny bunch a coaches sometimes. The thread above this post is asking about a stud wanting to come out and play football a bit after practice has started. Talk about suspending him a game or quarter or extra conditioning or not letting him join etc... Then we get here and complain about why kids don't want to play football anymore.
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Post by The Lunch Pail on Aug 10, 2018 8:51:30 GMT -6
Football is so much more fun when it’s a simple game.
The brotherhood, school pride, rivalries, pregame butterflies, hanging out after a game, wearing your jersey to school, etc. is a big part of what made the game fun to play.
The overkill of “the process”, scholarships, hudl, etc. has taken some of the purity out of the game. Do those things have their place? Of course. But it should be below what was mentioned above.
I’m lucky to work for a coach that still emphasizes this. These past 3 seasons, we’ve really made an effort to back off. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that 3/4 of our school’s winning seasons in its history have been those 3 seasons. All of June and half of July is off for our kids, aside from weight room. We emphasize to our kids that even though the weight room is strongly encouraged, we will not berate you or take away playing time for not showing up.
When we stop trying to “keep up with the Joneses” and work our guys like mules, we’ll see this trend of decreasing numbers slow down. But we as coaches need to see the wrong in what we ask of our players first. And like wingtol said, the thread above shows how far we are from realizing that.
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Post by CS on Aug 10, 2018 11:13:32 GMT -6
Football is so much more fun when it’s a simple game. The brotherhood, school pride, rivalries, pregame butterflies, hanging out after a game, wearing your jersey to school, etc. is a big part of what made the game fun to play. The overkill of “the process”, scholarships, hudl, etc. has taken some of the purity out of the game. Do those things have their place? Of course. But it should be below what was mentioned above. I’m lucky to work for a coach that still emphasizes this. These past 3 seasons, we’ve really made an effort to back off. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that 3/4 of our school’s winning seasons in its history have been those 3 seasons. All of June and half of July is off for our kids, aside from weight room. We emphasize to our kids that even though the weight room is strongly encouraged, we will not berate you or take away playing time for not showing up. When we stop trying to “keep up with the Joneses” and work our guys like mules, we’ll see this trend of decreasing numbers slow down. But we as coaches need to see the wrong in what we ask of our players first. And like wingtol said, the thread above shows how far we are from realizing that. I like this. I would like to point out that where you are coaching can effect what you do in the summer as well. This is the second place I have worked for my current HC. He isn’t a grinder at all. The last place we were it was 3 days a week for 2 hrs and maybe 1 camp. If we did that at this school and lost he would be fired. We don’t “grind” but we do more than we want just because it’s what the town thinks is required. I would like to take on a struggling program and go 3 days a week. Tuesday Thursday weights and practice and Wednesday team camp and that’s it. I could probably get away with it if the school has not had much success
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Post by gccwolverine on Aug 10, 2018 12:12:10 GMT -6
Football is dying and it has nothing to do with CTE or video games or even us as coaches. Kids and society are different and I don't know how you can continue to argue kids are the same as they've always been. They're not, and their changes in attitudes, culture, values, mores, etc are being felt in extracurricular sports with football being the most visible because it takes the most people to play it. Jesus Christ football isn't dying. More college programs football existed last year than at any other time in football history. I believe the number will increase this year as well. The sky is not falling just because someone feels a rain drop.
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Post by gccwolverine on Aug 10, 2018 12:18:56 GMT -6
I think it's a lot easier to blame concussions and fortnite then it is to take a look in the mirror at what we have done as a profession to high school football. The kids didn't create all-summer 7 on 7 schedules. They didn't create "non-mandatory" weights at 6 a.m. They aren't the ones who started going around calling each other soft because they went on vacation in a week of June instead of the dead-week that we handed out on a calendar in February, because god forbid a 15 year old goes on a family vacation when he could be lifting weights and going to a 7 on 7. They aren't the ones who started running a high school program like a college program. My last season was playing 2004. We lifted 3 days a week out of season starting after Christmas (more or less). Had 7 on 7 one night a week in summer (maybe 4 total times?) and then 1 3-day camp. JV's were encouraged but not really expected to go to anything but camp. We now go essentially 4 days a week the entire summer. There's no comparison in time commitment. And there are programs around us that do more then that. Now we act shocked that as the opportunity cost of playing football has gone up, there are fewer kids interested. Football isn't alone in that, basically all sports are year-round. Baseball is essentially impossible to work around now (showcase ball is all consuming). AAU basketball is it's own monster and the school team will have practice on top of the AAU practice. You might be talking 10 practices a week for a 2-sport athlete in the summer. It's nuts. That's not even counting camps and combines - because a scholarship is now are only measure of validity in an athlete. It's easy to blame the kids or parents, but how many coaches go around bragging about how many guys they put in school? How many coaches used to leverage those kids for college jobs (obviously harder now with the rule change). How many coaches just like being the big shot with all the college coaches in the office to talk about their kids. "We" have effectively turned high school ball (many sports, not just football) into a college feeder system - except the kids aren't getting a college education, room and board for it. About half of them get to stand around in the sun all summer as the scout team OL, getting killed and then the coach yells at him for not being able to read the card. Yea, it sucked when I played too, but atleast it was 12 weeks and not 25. Let's just show up on Friday 10 times a year, roll the balls out and have recess. It'll be easy and everyone will have fun.
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Post by blb on Aug 10, 2018 13:06:27 GMT -6
@grad17 Your last two posts add nothing constructive at all to the discussions.
Please keep the snark to yourself.
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Post by funkfriss on Aug 10, 2018 13:37:53 GMT -6
It worries me. CTE research is always the go-to reason but I think it's much larger than that. I worry for the video game generation. I am not claiming this is you by any means, but I have a buddy who coaches at a small school (about 200) who is struggling to field a team (about 16). I was talking to him about it and the troublesome part is he refuses to address any issues that might be impacting his situation. He claims its all this soft video game culture (although we played video games 25 years ago too). He claims that concussions are a non issue (only a problem for guys in the NFL, otherwise he and his buddies would be struggling now) and refuses to do baseline testing. All the while relying on drills banned for safety reasons, and multi mile runs in gear. His practices tend to be a lot of standing around getting yelled at, followed by running then more getting yelled at. My point being, WE have to offer something great for these kids and not just blame them/society for dwindling numbers. Note I am not writing we make it easy, just be logical and engaging. I want to highlight something that nobody else is saying. We did have lots of media when we were younger (TV, video games, computers, etc) but the difference is that our parents weren’t heavy consumers as well. Parents engaged with their kids, encouraged them to get out of the house, etc. Now parents hide behind their own screens and are more than happy to have their kids at a screen for hours too as long as they aren’t bothering them. As others have said, kids are kids and will always be kids. They’re like clay, easy to mold but you better get the mold right before it’s too late. Learned behavior is the culprit IMHO.
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Post by jgordon1 on Aug 10, 2018 14:14:47 GMT -6
I coach in the county that this team is from and used to play them on a yearly basis. In the past 10 years the demographics of that school have changed dramatically. about 50 different languages are now spoken at the school with many immigrants arriving each year. that along with the fact that kids transfer out of that school to play football elsewhere in the county about did them in. i don't think it has anything to do w concussions..more of a cultural thing..FWIW, they are pretty good in soccer. LOL
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Post by larrymoe on Aug 10, 2018 17:57:58 GMT -6
Football is dying and it has nothing to do with CTE or video games or even us as coaches. Kids and society are different and I don't know how you can continue to argue kids are the same as they've always been. They're not, and their changes in attitudes, culture, values, mores, etc are being felt in extracurricular sports with football being the most visible because it takes the most people to play it. Jesus Christ football isn't dying. More college programs football existed last year than at any other time in football history. I believe the number will increase this year as well. The sky is not falling just because someone feels a rain drop. Keep telling yourself that. Meanwhile, numbers continue to plummet around the nation at the HS and youth level.
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Post by larrymoe on Aug 10, 2018 18:29:54 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 18:50:28 GMT -6
I run 2 other forums (3 actually but 1 isn't up and running yet)
The same topic has been brought up on both numerous times, on both boards, i've seen it discussed on several others, and have personally talked with probably 20 other coaches who feel similar
If the sport isn't "dying" it's certainly changing enough that people all over are noticing, and coincidentally asking the same question
Why? .. probably because for once its facing issues from all sides, its not just 1 issue facing the sport.
I think the game will stand, but I think it may get to the point where it changes so much long term coaches may not want to be involved down the road, because to them its not Football anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 20:08:23 GMT -6
The local high school has 1800 students and less than 40 out for football for all (9-12) grades. We're starting to hear talk of it shutting down if numbers don't improve. I'm sitting out coaching this year with a new baby. Everybody's numbers are down. A successful school of 1200 that's fresh off a conference only has 42 out in the entire program. Only 8 freshmen came out this year. CTE hysteria and culture change is hitting teams hard.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 20:19:10 GMT -6
Football is dying and it has nothing to do with CTE or video games or even us as coaches. Kids and society are different and I don't know how you can continue to argue kids are the same as they've always been. They're not, and their changes in attitudes, culture, values, mores, etc are being felt in extracurricular sports with football being the most visible because it takes the most people to play it. We've had a huge culture change in this country, especially in the last 6 years, and it's hitting everything. There's been an idealogical war on football for a while now and the enemies have been winning. Couple that with changing demographics, increased standardized testing pressure causing schools to pull support away from even highly successful football programs, local media dying so there's less emphasis on it in the communities, and coaches who are set in their ways of how football and practice should be and you've got a recipe for disaster. As coaches, we need to look at what the kids' experience is in our programs and in our sport itself. What do we offer them? Kids don't want to come out and go through a bootcamp environment where they get yelled at and run into the ground year-round in hopes of playing as a junior or senior. Frankly, why should they when there's YouTube if they just want attention, soccer if they want a low-stress team sport, video games if they just want to compete, basketball if they're afraid of injury but want to be a star athlete, and MMA or wrestling if they want to control their own destinies without relying on 20 other guys around them? What the hell do we have to offer that's special or appealing to these kids now?
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