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Post by Hitch & Pitch on Jul 29, 2018 13:48:17 GMT -6
My school board has eliminated girl managers for boy sport team's, and boy's cannot be manager for girl teams. A "knee jerk" reaction because an off-campus JV basketball coach (male) was getting to "friendly" with a girl manager. I think he made suggestive comments, and inappropriate contact, I don't think there was ever sex. They did fire the guy (obviously) mid season.
My problem, I have two girls that are starting their third year as a manger, they are reliable, I don't ask a whole lot of them just make sure the water jugs are filled before practice, cleaned after, hang and fold the uniforms Monday, and help set up the sidelines Friday night. I don't think I can find two reliable male students to do what the girls do.
I would think they are setting themselves up for a Title IX, or a discrimination lawsuit. I told my AD, if the girls wanted to play football, I could not deny them, how can the district deny them being managers, he agreed but said that is the board decision.
Just curious, if anybody has any insight or thoughts to my dilemma...
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 29, 2018 13:58:43 GMT -6
My school board has eliminated girl managers for boy sport team's, and boy's cannot be manager for girl teams. A "knee jerk" reaction because an off-campus JV basketball coach (male) was getting to "friendly" with a girl manager. I think he made suggestive comments, and inappropriate contact, I don't think there was ever sex. They did fire the guy (obviously) mid season. My problem, I have two girls that are starting their third year as a manger, they are reliable, I don't ask a whole lot of them just make sure the water jugs are filled before practice, cleaned after, hang and fold the uniforms Monday, and help set up the sidelines Friday night. I don't think I can find two reliable male students to do what the girls do. I would think they are setting themselves up for a Title IX, or a discrimination lawsuit. I told my AD, if the girls wanted to play football, I could not deny them, how can the district deny them being managers, he agreed but said that is the board decision. Just curious, if anybody has any insight or thoughts to my dilemma... Typical School Board reaction . Take huge over-corrective action in response to an event that likely would not happen again, and also does not hold up logically to other situations (such as them wanting to play football for one, OR even more obvious, the fact that girls likely have opposite gender coaches (and therefore interaction) in various sports. |
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Post by jg08mhs on Jul 29, 2018 16:43:35 GMT -6
My school board has eliminated girl managers for boy sport team's, and boy's cannot be manager for girl teams. A "knee jerk" reaction because an off-campus JV basketball coach (male) was getting to "friendly" with a girl manager. I think he made suggestive comments, and inappropriate contact, I don't think there was ever sex. They did fire the guy (obviously) mid season. My problem, I have two girls that are starting their third year as a manger, they are reliable, I don't ask a whole lot of them just make sure the water jugs are filled before practice, cleaned after, hang and fold the uniforms Monday, and help set up the sidelines Friday night. I don't think I can find two reliable male students to do what the girls do. I would think they are setting themselves up for a Title IX, or a discrimination lawsuit. I told my AD, if the girls wanted to play football, I could not deny them, how can the district deny them being managers, he agreed but said that is the board decision. Just curious, if anybody has any insight or thoughts to my dilemma... You have reported your concerns to your superior, and it is now up to him to take it or not take it any further. I would personally document what was said in the conversation with the AD. Beyond that, if it were me, I would not feel comfortable pushing the issue further for fear of (1) going over the AD’s head and (2) stirring the pot with the school board. |
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Post by Hitch & Pitch on Jul 29, 2018 17:34:53 GMT -6
I guess the Board is saying that teenage girls are the "problem", not the off campus/walk on coaches. I'd think if this was going to court, I'd much rather be on the girls side than the school board...
No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance.
— Cornell Law School's Legal Information Institute (20 U.S. Code § 1681 - Sex)
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Post by Chris Clement on Jul 29, 2018 18:45:36 GMT -6
Sometimes the threat of a stink is better than the stink itself. Make a clear threat to challenge it and they'll likely fold on the proviso that you keep it quiet.
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Post by fantom on Jul 29, 2018 18:51:57 GMT -6
Sometimes the threat of a stink is better than the stink itself. Make a clear threat to challenge it and they'll likely fold on the proviso that you keep it quiet. School boards don't care what employees think. Now, if the parents of some girls complain that's a different story. |
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Post by Chris Clement on Jul 29, 2018 18:55:39 GMT -6
Sometimes the threat of a stink is better than the stink itself. Make a clear threat to challenge it and they'll likely fold on the proviso that you keep it quiet. School boards don't care what employees think. Now, if the parents of some girls complain that's a different story. Sorry that's what I meant. Threaten that the parents will challenge it. |
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Post by carookie on Jul 30, 2018 8:35:59 GMT -6
I guess the Board is saying that teenage girls are the "problem", not the off campus/walk on coaches. I'd think if this was going to court, I'd much rather be on the girls side than the school board... No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance. — Cornell Law School's Legal Information Institute (20 U.S. Code § 1681 - Sex) I am waiting for a guy to try out for a women's team. Somehow, I don't think that will hold much water. Pretty sure there was a guy who played on a women's college field hockey team a few years back- he dominated and ticked a lot of people off in doing so. Also had to wear a skirt as was part of the uniform. |
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Post by Chris Clement on Jul 30, 2018 8:50:07 GMT -6
I guess we can ads Title IX to the list of things you don’t understand.
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Post by fantom on Jul 30, 2018 9:09:28 GMT -6
I guess the Board is saying that teenage girls are the "problem", not the off campus/walk on coaches. I'd think if this was going to court, I'd much rather be on the girls side than the school board... No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance. — Cornell Law School's Legal Information Institute (20 U.S. Code § 1681 - Sex) Do girls sports also have managers? |
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Post by fantom on Jul 30, 2018 9:20:57 GMT -6
Do girls sports also have managers? Somebody understands the law of unintended consequences. I'm not sure we're on the same page here. Title IX is about equality of opportunity. Girls can be on football and wrestling teams because there are no girls teams in those sports, for the most part. No matter how good she is a girl can't play boys basketball because there is a corresponding girls team. As for being a manager, does it really matter if a girl is folding field hockey jerseys instead of football jerseys? Also, who in their right mind would go through the expense and trouble of a law suit to become a manager? |
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Post by larrymoe on Jul 30, 2018 9:30:38 GMT -6
My school board has eliminated girl managers for boy sport team's, and boy's cannot be manager for girl teams. A "knee jerk" reaction because an off-campus JV basketball coach (male) was getting to "friendly" with a girl manager. I think he made suggestive comments, and inappropriate contact, I don't think there was ever sex. They did fire the guy (obviously) mid season. My problem, I have two girls that are starting their third year as a manger, they are reliable, I don't ask a whole lot of them just make sure the water jugs are filled before practice, cleaned after, hang and fold the uniforms Monday, and help set up the sidelines Friday night. I don't think I can find two reliable male students to do what the girls do. I would think they are setting themselves up for a Title IX, or a discrimination lawsuit. I told my AD, if the girls wanted to play football, I could not deny them, how can the district deny them being managers, he agreed but said that is the board decision. Just curious, if anybody has any insight or thoughts to my dilemma... Let them "play" football. Have them "practice" one day, and then if they get "injured" they can spend the rest of the year on the sidelines helping the rest of the team while they "heal". |
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Post by wingtol on Jul 30, 2018 9:31:10 GMT -6
Our HC said he doesn't want girl mangers anymore, we did have a small issue with two managers disappearing during practices before. In this day and age as bad as it is, he decided not to risk it any more with girls having that much access to the team especially when a lot of what they do isn't as strictly supervised as other aspects of the program can be.
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Post by larrymoe on Jul 30, 2018 9:34:06 GMT -6
I guess the Board is saying that teenage girls are the "problem", not the off campus/walk on coaches. I'd think if this was going to court, I'd much rather be on the girls side than the school board... No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance. — Cornell Law School's Legal Information Institute (20 U.S. Code § 1681 - Sex) I am waiting for a guy to try out for a women's team. Somehow, I don't think that will hold much water. School I was at a couple years ago, we had a boy try to play volleyball since there was no guys team. The board wouldn't let him. Meanwhile, I had a girl on the football team. Some people asked me what I thought about and I said I thought it was BS one could do something and the other couldn't, but no one cared what I thought. |
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Post by fantom on Jul 30, 2018 9:51:44 GMT -6
I'm not sure we're on the same page here. Title IX is about equality of opportunity. Girls can be on football and wrestling teams because there are no girls teams in those sports, for the most part. No matter how good she is a girl can't play boys basketball because there is a corresponding girls team. As for being a manager, does it really matter if a girl is folding field hockey jerseys instead of football jerseys? Also, who in their right mind would go through the expense and trouble of a law suit to become a manager? somebody thought it was worth the fight to suit for any number of social issues. And in this gender takes front and center. If one digs into equal opportunity, and I will not do that here as much as I would like to, you run into real problems. None of the issues discussed, by themselves is a real issue..until somebody ask the right question. Exactly what opportunity is being lost here? |
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Post by fantom on Jul 30, 2018 10:04:11 GMT -6
Chris is right- you really don't understand Title IX at all.
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klaby
Junior Member
Posts: 389
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Post by klaby on Jul 30, 2018 10:50:00 GMT -6
You cant fix poor leadership....
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Post by bluboy on Jul 30, 2018 11:00:51 GMT -6
"You cant fix poor leadership...."
Bazinga!!!
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 30, 2018 11:03:04 GMT -6
You cant fix poor leadership.... you can but that requires understanding that something either is fundamentally flawed or just admit something is wrong. Ah..but Dunning- Kruger....... |
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klaby
Junior Member
Posts: 389
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Post by klaby on Jul 30, 2018 11:08:53 GMT -6
You cant fix poor leadership.... you can but that requires understanding that something either is fundamentally flawed or just admit something is wrong. No you really cant coach. In this case you need to vote for leaders to fill the school board. That's not what we do, we vote for people we "like". Not people who have the stones to say no, or to call out bad performance. Its easy to just make a blanket rule. We don't like truth tellers, we want feel good people....
Leadership can be taught, but that doesn't mean it can be learned. I taught it to young Marines, some learned some did not.
Instead of dealing with the actual problem, they take the easy road and make a blanket rule. Happens all the time in schools. I spent 8 years as a Public Safety director of a D3 school, I could tell you stories about just how you cant fix stupid.....not if you want to keep your sanity and liver in tact, cause this stupid will drive a man to drink....
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Post by stilltryin on Jul 30, 2018 11:30:02 GMT -6
I am waiting for a guy to try out for a women's team. Somehow, I don't think that will hold much water. Pretty sure there was a guy who played on a women's college field hockey team a few years back- he dominated and ticked a lot of people off in doing so. Also had to wear a skirt as was part of the uniform. High school boys have played on girls' teams in field hockey, swimming and track in New York, Connecticut and Massachusetts in recent years. Usually where there was no boys' team in that sport . All involved hassle involving school boards, courts and state associations. |
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Post by carookie on Jul 30, 2018 12:28:53 GMT -6
Pretty sure there was a guy who played on a women's college field hockey team a few years back- he dominated and ticked a lot of people off in doing so. Also had to wear a skirt as was part of the uniform. High school boys have played on girls' teams in field hockey, swimming and track in New York, Connecticut and Massachusetts in recent years. Usually where there was no boys' team in that sport . All involved hassle involving school boards, courts and state associations. I can see field hockey, but schools had girls but no boy's swimming or track? Thats crazy |
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Post by bobgoodman on Jul 30, 2018 12:35:05 GMT -6
What if the girl mgr. "identifies" as male?
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Post by Hitch & Pitch on Jul 30, 2018 13:52:53 GMT -6
My school board has eliminated girl managers for boy sport team's, and boy's cannot be manager for girl teams. A "knee jerk" reaction because an off-campus JV basketball coach (male) was getting to "friendly" with a girl manager. I think he made suggestive comments, and inappropriate contact, I don't think there was ever sex. They did fire the guy (obviously) mid season. My problem, I have two girls that are starting their third year as a manger, they are reliable, I don't ask a whole lot of them just make sure the water jugs are filled before practice, cleaned after, hang and fold the uniforms Monday, and help set up the sidelines Friday night. I don't think I can find two reliable male students to do what the girls do. I would think they are setting themselves up for a Title IX, or a discrimination lawsuit. I told my AD, if the girls wanted to play football, I could not deny them, how can the district deny them being managers, he agreed but said that is the board decision. Just curious, if anybody has any insight or thoughts to my dilemma... Let them "play" football. Have them "practice" one day, and then if they get "injured" they can spend the rest of the year on the sidelines helping the rest of the team while they "heal". I have thought of that, have them wrap an Ace bandage around their knee and say they are injured. |
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Post by 54695469 on Jul 30, 2018 14:18:03 GMT -6
Pretty sure there was a guy who played on a women's college field hockey team a few years back- he dominated and ticked a lot of people off in doing so. Also had to wear a skirt as was part of the uniform. High school boys have played on girls' teams in field hockey, swimming and track in New York, Connecticut and Massachusetts in recent years. Usually where there was no boys' team in that sport . All involved hassle involving school boards, courts and state associations. ...and all involved a liberal, blue state. |
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Post by fantom on Jul 30, 2018 15:24:28 GMT -6
...and all involved a liberal, blue state. no need for politics, to me it's a conflict that is fascinating. Grab the pop corn. There won't be any politics. |
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Post by utchuckd on Jul 30, 2018 19:48:42 GMT -6
This reminds me of that episode of Diff'rent Strokes where Kimberly wants access to some boys' club and they didn't want to give her access. So in protest Willis runs for something like prom queen, wins, and in doing so knocks down the gender barrier giving her access to the club she was trying to join.
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Post by natenator on Aug 3, 2018 15:17:52 GMT -6
No you really cant coach. In this case you need to vote for leaders to fill the school board. That's not what we do, we vote for people we "like". Not people who have the stones to say no, or to call out bad performance. Its easy to just make a blanket rule. We don't like truth tellers, we want feel good people....
Leadership can be taught, but that doesn't mean it can be learned. I taught it to young Marines, some learned some did not.
Instead of dealing with the actual problem, they take the easy road and make a blanket rule. Happens all the time in schools. I spent 8 years as a Public Safety director of a D3 school, I could tell you stories about just how you cant fix stupid.....not if you want to keep your sanity and liver in tact, cause this stupid will drive a man to drink....
you hit a lot of things I figure into my line of thinking. That should scare Klaby lol |
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