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Post by utchuckd on Feb 23, 2018 6:24:46 GMT -6
Instead of, or in addition to, hammers and bats why not keep a can of pepper spray in your room? Better range than a bat, don't have to be as discriminating as a firearm.
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Post by silkyice on Feb 23, 2018 9:15:57 GMT -6
Having cans of hornet/wasp spray in your room and spraying at the face of the intruder is decent idea if you do not have better alternatives.
Maybe keep a bucket of baseballs in your room. Give each kid a few.
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Post by utchuckd on Feb 23, 2018 10:32:20 GMT -6
I've heard the chemicals in wasp spray make it illegal to use as a defense outside the home (where anything can be used). Where pepper spray is non-chemical and approved for self defense.
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Post by seabass on Feb 23, 2018 10:36:49 GMT -6
I've heard the chemicals in wasp spray make it illegal to use as a defense outside the home (where anything can be used). Where pepper spray is non-chemical and approved for self defense. I'm guessing you might "get a pass" if you save a kid's life with something that is illegal.
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Post by newt21 on Feb 23, 2018 12:39:43 GMT -6
Having cans of hornet/wasp spray in your room and spraying at the face of the intruder is decent idea if you do not have better alternatives. Maybe keep a bucket of baseballs in your room. Give each kid a few. Just make sure you don't put any curveballs in that bucket
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 13:22:42 GMT -6
I've heard the chemicals in wasp spray make it illegal to use as a defense outside the home (where anything can be used). Where pepper spray is non-chemical and approved for self defense. The issue is that since pepper spray is approved for self-defense, it's banned in many schools, whereas wasp spray has a legit insecticide use so it's therefore legal to keep around. I know of a system near me where teachers have been encouraged to keep a few cans of wasp spray on hand if necessary. As for my own plan... my classroom opens to the outside, so in the event of an active shooter in our building we're supposed to take the kids out of the door to safety. Unfortunately, that door opens to a fenced in area of school property "protected" by an 8' security chain link fence with barbed wire across the top. In order to actually get kids out, we're supposed to find a way to break down the fence, run across the old practice field, then break down another fence there. I think I'm going to start keeping a small pair of bolt cutters in my classroom just in case... The only things I know to do in these situations are to make sure my door is set to automatically lock anytime it's shut, cover the window with a strip of paper and magnets, turn out the lights, make my kids be quiet (which sucks because we do so many lockdown drills they never take it seriously) and try to hide kids in a corner away from the huge window I'm not allowed to cover. If anyone busts into my room during a lockdown, I'm going to be trying to throw a chair, table, or bookshelf at him and hope for the best. It's really all I could do.
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Post by agap on Feb 23, 2018 13:45:20 GMT -6
8' security chain link fence with barbed wire across the top? Do you teach in a prison? I've never seen a school that has that.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2018 14:03:40 GMT -6
8' security chain link fence with barbed wire across the top? Do you teach in a prison? I've never seen a school that has that. Welcome to Tennessee. Ironically, it's there to keep us safe by keeping the wrong people out.
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Post by utchuckd on Feb 23, 2018 16:21:54 GMT -6
I've heard the chemicals in wasp spray make it illegal to use as a defense outside the home (where anything can be used). Where pepper spray is non-chemical and approved for self defense. The issue is that since pepper spray is approved for self-defense, it's banned in many schools, whereas wasp spray has a legit insecticide use so it's therefore legal to keep around. Maybe this is the {censored} problem then. A perfectly fine non-lethal method of self defense is illegal in school, but something that's illegal out in normal public you would get a pass for using in school. And people want the same government that came up with these rules to fix things.
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Post by blb on Feb 23, 2018 16:57:04 GMT -6
The last two schools I worked at you could not enter without being "buzzed in" from main office because doors were locked once school day began. There were security cameras at all entrances and parking lots.
I don't understand how the Parkland killer could walk in undetected, activate a fire alarm, and wait for kids to come out of classrooms.
Of course I also don't understand how teenagers become owners of assault rifles, whether they have a history of family, school, and-or mental health issues or not.
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Post by jg08mhs on Feb 23, 2018 17:39:32 GMT -6
Having cans of hornet/wasp spray in your room and spraying at the face of the intruder is decent idea if you do not have better alternatives. Maybe keep a bucket of baseballs in your room. Give each kid a few. Someone asked a sherif deputy about the hornet spray idea during a drill a few years ago. He said that the spray from a fire extinguisher to the face would be just as disorienting, would require less accuracy, and the fire exteinguisher could double as a blunt object for self defense.
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Post by silkyice on Feb 23, 2018 19:58:03 GMT -6
Having cans of hornet/wasp spray in your room and spraying at the face of the intruder is decent idea if you do not have better alternatives. Maybe keep a bucket of baseballs in your room. Give each kid a few. Someone asked a sherif deputy about the hornet spray idea during a drill a few years ago. He said that the spray from a fire extinguisher to the face would be just as disorienting, would require less accuracy, and the fire exteinguisher could double as a blunt object for self defense. I don’t disagree. But you could have 5 people all from the back of a room or in corners shooting wasp spray. And have a fire extinguisher.
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Post by CS on Feb 24, 2018 6:39:36 GMT -6
Wasp spray is a good idea. My door opens into the hall so I have a thick wire I use to anchor myself to the handle and I’ve instructed my students to throw any object they can at anyone who enters.
Of course none of this works if everyone thinks it’s a fire drill. Funny story, our admin ran a fire drill 2 days after the shooting. I was peeking around every corner like a cop all the way out.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 24, 2018 7:20:07 GMT -6
Wasp spray is a good idea. My door opens into the hall so I have a thick wire I use to anchor myself to the handle and I’ve instructed my students to throw any object they can at anyone who enters. Of course none of this works if everyone thinks it’s a fire drill. Funny story, our admin ran a fire drill 2 days after the shooting. I was peeking around every corner like a cop all the way out. We had one yesterday. We are an lower elementary school (pre k - 5th) so the students are not quite as aware. I understand that they need to get "x" amount of fire drills in, and usually once a month but I still didn't think it was great. If you were at a HS, and it wasn't announced before hand (at least to the faculty who could then relay to the class as they exited "It is ok, it is a drill, we knew about this beforehand)...I would say that is kind of a tone deaf admin. Of course, based on several of the thoughts and ideas I keep seeing on social media and hearing on radio call in shows, one could argue we have many members of society that are tone deaf.
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Post by CS on Feb 24, 2018 11:24:24 GMT -6
Wasp spray is a good idea. My door opens into the hall so I have a thick wire I use to anchor myself to the handle and I’ve instructed my students to throw any object they can at anyone who enters. Of course none of this works if everyone thinks it’s a fire drill. Funny story, our admin ran a fire drill 2 days after the shooting. I was peeking around every corner like a cop all the way out. We had one yesterday. We are an lower elementary school (pre k - 5th) so the students are not quite as aware. I understand that they need to get "x" amount of fire drills in, and usually once a month but I still didn't think it was great. If you were at a HS, and it wasn't announced before hand (at least to the faculty who could then relay to the class as they exited "It is ok, it is a drill, we knew about this beforehand)...I would say that is kind of a tone deaf admin. Of course, based on several of the thoughts and ideas I keep seeing on social media and hearing on radio call in shows, one could argue we have many members of society that are tone deaf. It was last minute and he sent out an e-mail but I only check mine once a day due to the fact that our school district sends out emails like they get money for each one sent. Anyway, it was just bad timing. It doesn’t help that I teach 9th graders and they over dramatic in the first place.
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Post by 19delta on Feb 24, 2018 14:04:34 GMT -6
Instead of, or in addition to, hammers and bats why not keep a can of pepper spray in your room? Better range than a bat, don't have to be as discriminating as a firearm. We were all issued backpacks with cans of wasp spray.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 24, 2018 14:08:33 GMT -6
Instead of, or in addition to, hammers and bats why not keep a can of pepper spray in your room? Better range than a bat, don't have to be as discriminating as a firearm. We were all issued backpacks with cans of wasp spray. Recently? Or has this been a policy for a while?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2018 14:39:14 GMT -6
Of course none of this works if everyone thinks it’s a fire drill. Funny story, our admin ran a fire drill 2 days after the shooting. I was peeking around every corner like a cop all the way out. On Thurs. we had a faculty meeting where our SRO made a point of talking about how it's common for school shooters to pull the fire alarm to flush people out, just like in Florida. The gist of his speech was basically "Do whatever you feel best if this happens because I don't know what to tell you. Anything can happen." Since the school shooters are almost always students/former students at the school, they usually know the procedures and take advantage. Needless to say, that got everyone's anxiety up. The very next morning we had an unannounced fire drill...
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Post by coachcb on Feb 24, 2018 14:56:41 GMT -6
I have been through three active shooter situations. Two were impromptu drills and the other was an actual case where we had a potentially armed student in the building. I handled all three according to our "active shooter: protocol:
1. I locked my door and told all of the kids to get down on the floor, against the wall that was the furthest away from the hallways. In two situations, the blinds to my room were opened, a kid reached up to close them and I told them to sit the hell down and I got it handled.
2. I told the kids to do EXACTLY what I said; STAY ON THE FLOOR, NEXT TO THE WALL, AND DON'T MOVE. On all three occasions I had a couple of kids who thought they were going to try to be heroes and I chewed their a--es out. I hollered at them to get the hell down, stay down and not to move until I told them to do otherwise.
3. I didn't hear any gunfire or loud noises, so I carefully opened up my door and peaked down the hallway to see if it was clear. Before I did so, I told the kids that, IF I gave them the all-clear, they were to get their a--es out of the room, move to nearest fire exit and then get down the street to a church. I told them I would be right behind them. Now, this was a tough call to make because I did have a couple of wannabe-Rambos in the room and I was afraid they'd take off, looking for the shooter. But, apparently my stern tone of voice and the look on my face told them I meant business.
4. The hallways were clear, so we booked it out the nearest exit and then jogged down the street where we regrouped in the church parking lot (out of the school's line of sight) and I took a head count and we waited the situation out.
5. When reviewing the situation with the kids, I told them that they were not to do ANYTHING unless I told them to. We would only attack an active shooter IF he got into the room and they would only do so when I told them to. I told them that our first priority was getting getting out of the building if possible and that is what we did.
The problem with these situations is managing a group of terrified kids when you're already freaked out. Many teachers struggle with these kinds of drills because they have a hard time keeping it together enough to get the kids to safety. One teacher had her whole English class bolt down the hallway, TOWARDS the entrance a shooter would have used. She felt awful afterward as she realized that, had there actually been an active shooter, her class would have probably run right into them.
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Post by 19delta on Feb 24, 2018 19:31:30 GMT -6
We were all issued backpacks with cans of wasp spray. Recently? Or has this been a policy for a while? First issued in 2016-2017 school year.
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Post by 19delta on Feb 24, 2018 19:49:26 GMT -6
I still haven't read anything about how the Florida killer actually entered the school. Anyone know?
I have thought about what I would do often. My classroom is set up pretty well for shelter-in-place if a shooter is in the building. Interior walls are windowless masonry and my classroom has a fairly heavy wooden door with a small window about head high. I keep the door closed and locked during the day. Certainly, a highly motivated attacker could shoot their way in, given enough time and ammunition, but I would imagine that they would go look for easier targets. And even if an attacker did shoot himself in, I feel pretty confident that I would be able to rush them from a covered and concealed barricaded position next to the door as they came through the chokepoint of the doorway.
On the other hand, my classroom is on the extreme north end of our building and there is a secondary entrance/exit to our cafeteria right outside the west exterior wall. That wall has windows from the waist to the ceiling all the way across the length of my classroom. I do have shades that I keep drawn at all times but if a shooter were to attack the school from that side of my classroom, it would result in a high body count. Would be like shooting fish in a barrel.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 24, 2018 20:10:14 GMT -6
I still haven't read anything about how the Florida killer actually entered the school. Anyone know? Me either. All the talk has been either : a) We need to arm teachers because the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is good guys with a gun b) There were several good guys with guns on campus who did not react c) Both the FBI and local law enforcement were notified and aware of the perpetrator. Although, I think it may be best if they don't publicly describe the successes.
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Post by coachcb on Feb 25, 2018 9:29:25 GMT -6
I still haven't read anything about how the Florida killer actually entered the school. Anyone know? Me either. All the talk has been either : a) We need to arm teachers because the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is good guys with a gun b) There were several good guys with guns on campus who did not react c) Both the FBI and local law enforcement were notified and aware of the perpetrator. Although, I think it may be best if they don't publicly describe the successes. Unfortunately, it's not hard for am motivated individual to gain entrance to a school if they really want to. When I first started teaching, I subbed at many different schools and all of them had security precautions (magnetic doors that were controlled from the inside, security cameras at the entrance, etc.etc..) and I can't tell you how many times I showed up, hit the buzzer, stated my name and was let right in. Sometimes then secretaries knew me, sometimes they didn't. One time, in the dead of winter, I was wearing a long, heavy jacket, a stocking cap and the hood pulled over my head and I didn't even have to state my name; I hit the buzzer and the doors opened. I know they couldn't see my face because of the jacket.. I don't blame the school secretaries as they have a lot to handle first thing in the morning and it's an impossible task to keep track of the hundreds of kids and adults that come into the building during the day. Right now, I think that the best we can do as educators is to follow the safety protocols; keep the doors locked, windows covered and get the kids out of the building quickly if possible or hunker down in the rooms if not.
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Post by bignose on Feb 25, 2018 11:07:44 GMT -6
The last school I coached at had 27 different entrances. The middle school I taught at for 29 years had 15. No matter how well secured, the doors have to open outwards (fire dept. regulations), and all can be opened from the inside by pushing them open. The typical reaction to some one banging on the door is to open it for them, especially in high traffic ares, such as near the gym or cafeteria.
But it is not just the schools that provide soft targets. As we have seen, movie theaters, night clubs, concerts, malls, high school sporting events, and any place where the general public may gather is subject to an attack with weapons. Tell me how a good guy with a gun could have done anything in a situation such as Las Vegas?
It is not just the schools! If the schools become better protected, the atrocities will just happen someplace else.
I admit, as a suburban grown-up, I was not brought up with a gun culture. I do not think that more guns are the answer. I have thoughts on how to deal with this, but this football forum is not the place to discuss it. There are too many folks who all have varying degrees of passion on both sides of the aguement.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 25, 2018 11:13:33 GMT -6
The last school I coached at had 27 different entrances. The middle school I taught at for 29 years had 15. No matter how well secured, the doors have to open outwards (fire dept. regulations), and all can be opened from the inside by pushing them open. The typical reaction to some one banging on the door is to open it for them, especially in high traffic ares, such as near the gym or cafeteria. But it is not just the schools that provide soft targets. As we have seen, movie theaters, night clubs, concerts, malls, high school sporting events, and any place where the general public may gather is subject to an attack with weapons. Tell me how a good guy with a gun could have done anything in a situation such as Las Vegas? It is not just the schools! If the schools become better protected, the atrocities will just happen someplace else. I admit, as a suburban grown-up, I was not brought up with a gun culture. I do not think that more guns are the answer. I have thoughts on how to deal with this, but this football forum is not the place to discuss it. There are too many folks who all have varying degrees of passion on both sides of the aguement. As a surbunanite who DID grow up in a sporting culture, and who owns guns, I agree. I will say this, as I keep reading comments about arming teachers...especially from my own faculty members on the facebook (some for it, some against) 1) Guns do not protect anything, Shields do that. Ranged weapons may allow you to neutralize a threat, but they don't "protect" against any projectiles a threat has already unleashed. 2) Specifically regarding the arming of school personnel-- There was already an armed, trained law enforcement officer on the campus. Without getting into the politics of the issue, I can say that as a teacher (and thats why I am posting this in the thread) I don't want my co workers armed.
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Post by natenator on Feb 25, 2018 17:51:42 GMT -6
Anyone who thinks arming teachers is a good idea have clearly never seen The Wire lol
One of them punks would use it on the teachers lol
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Post by PIGSKIN11 on Feb 26, 2018 15:29:41 GMT -6
Barracuda Intruder Defense SystemBuying this for my wife's class... Her door opens out - no real defense... She teaches 1st graders a few towns away and I want her safe... I am in the suburbs of San Francisco and all of our campuses in this area are wide open... So many open ways on campus it is crazy...
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Post by somecoach on Feb 26, 2018 17:34:06 GMT -6
who has worked in a school district where "anonymous" staff members were carrying concealed? I know of many in NW Ohio Fortunately we have always had multiple retired NYPD on staff... they don't even go to Shoprite without packing Also the local Archdiocese has put together a fund to hire a private security company to every Catholic school in the city... the same rule applies to them (even though they are paid as "unarmed").
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Post by 19delta on Feb 26, 2018 21:02:00 GMT -6
The last school I coached at had 27 different entrances. The middle school I taught at for 29 years had 15. No matter how well secured, the doors have to open outwards (fire dept. regulations), and all can be opened from the inside by pushing them open. The typical reaction to some one banging on the door is to open it for them, especially in high traffic ares, such as near the gym or cafeteria. But it is not just the schools that provide soft targets. As we have seen, movie theaters, night clubs, concerts, malls, high school sporting events, and any place where the general public may gather is subject to an attack with weapons. Tell me how a good guy with a gun could have done anything in a situation such as Las Vegas? It is not just the schools! If the schools become better protected, the atrocities will just happen someplace else. I admit, as a suburban grown-up, I was not brought up with a gun culture. I do not think that more guns are the answer. I have thoughts on how to deal with this, but this football forum is not the place to discuss it. There are too many folks who all have varying degrees of passion on both sides of the aguement. As a surbunanite who DID grow up in a sporting culture, and who owns guns, I agree. I will say this, as I keep reading comments about arming teachers...especially from my own faculty members on the facebook (some for it, some against) 1) Guns do not protect anything, Shields do that. Ranged weapons may allow you to neutralize a threat, but they don't "protect" against any projectiles a threat has already unleashed. 2) Specifically regarding the arming of school personnel-- There was already an armed, trained law enforcement officer on the campus. Without getting into the politics of the issue, I can say that as a teacher (and thats why I am posting this in the thread) I don't want my co workers armed. US Army vet here (Cavalry Scout). Qualified expert on an M-9 pistol and both an M-16A2 and an M4. I also own a fairly large number of rifles, shotguns, and handguns. I consider myself a good shot and a responsible gun owner. With that being said, I don't want to carry a gun in school. Carrying a firearm is a tremendous responsibility. Anyone who makes that decision has a duty to understand what carrying that firearm means.
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Post by 19delta on Feb 26, 2018 21:03:08 GMT -6
who has worked in a school district where "anonymous" staff members were carrying concealed? I know of many in NW Ohio Fortunately we have always had multiple retired NYPD on staff... they don't even go to Shoprite without packing Also the local Archdiocese has put together a fund to hire a private security company to every Catholic school in the city... the same rule applies to them (even though they are paid as "unarmed"). Wasn't it the NYPD who was only hitting what they were shooting at like 18% of the time?
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