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Post by CoachM58 on Feb 13, 2018 11:15:49 GMT -6
I signed and donated. Fight this war on football! Its us against them!
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Post by Coach Vice on Feb 13, 2018 11:36:36 GMT -6
No...it's not the "exact" reason. People are running from the game for a number of reasons that have more to do with society and culture and less to do with the actual game. I do agree with you that we need to adapt when necessary. However, we need to take a stand on the concussion data because that's going to be indefensible in the court of public opinion. The media and soft society has made head injuries in HIGH SCHOOL football a bigger issue than it is. Not a bigger issue than it should be, but a bigger issue than it is. There's a difference. Head injuries should be a primary concern, but it shouldn't end the game based on the data we have. Regardless, I fight this fight every time I get a chance. So you are saying that the media and "soft society" should be making an even BIGGER deal? That is what "Not a bigger issue than it should be" means. No....head injuries in our sport should always be at the forefront. We SHOULD make this a big issue and we should address it accordingly. The media and "soft society" rages about concussions in football without noting a number of different variables. 1. "football" does not mean ALL football. Most of the serious and long term issues with concussions/CTE are linked to the NFL and to a lesser degree, college football. 2. The percentage of high school football players effected by concussions is STAGGERINGLY low. This is where it gets dicey, because stating that gives the impression that I might believe that we shouldn't care due to how few people it effects. That's where we should be putting it at the forefront ACCORDINGLY. 3. If we're focusing on such a small number of football players getting concussions because of the severity and gravity of the issue than why are we not focusing on ALL FRIGGIN' CONCUSSIONS IN ALL FRIGGIN' SPORTS?!?!?! The Fresh Prince of Bel Air isn't making millions of dollars off of movies about hockey players or women's soccer players getting concussions.....why do you think that is? Because it's an opportunistic, pet cause that looks good and is low hanging fruit for the morally outraged "SOFT SOCIETY"! Those are the people who know NOTHING about the positive impact that this games has on millions of young men. 4. An overwhelmingly large number of sources for information regarding head injuries in football is skewed to make it appear worse than it is. For example, high school football statistics are incomplete and not comprehensive. However, the media likes to just say "football" has a concussion problem which incites moms across the country to rush down to the local AYSO sign-ups. Here's another example. I read a data breakdown of head injuries from the University of Pittsburgh and saw a statistic that jumped out at me: 5 of 10 concussions go unreported or undetected. If that kind of data can be used than why isn't there anything said about phantom concussions or self-reported concussions? In the past, I've had multiple athletes who have gone to the doctor and said, "I had a concussion when I was 10" All of a sudden, that kid had a concussion regardless of whether or not it ever really existed. In addition, how many kids have you had that KNOW all of the signs of a concussion and suddenly have all of them at once? That kid goes to the doctor and tosses out every symptom in the book and of course the doctor is going to diagnose him. What am I saying? We don't take into account the fake/phantom concussions. We even analyze the "undetected" or "unreported" concussions without ever even considering the fact that a good portion of them might not be viable. This isn't to say that we should ignore kids who say they have symptoms, but if we're going to note the "undetected" or "unreported" and use them as fact then we should look at the other side, too. 5. It's not a big enough deal that we should legislate it. We have an opioid crisis in our country. We have an obesity problem. We have race relation problems. We have environmental problems. We have immigration problems. We have poor leadership......and we want to legislate an issue that effects .00001% of the population?
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Post by Coach Vice on Feb 13, 2018 11:49:28 GMT -6
What is the point of youth football if not to get kids ready for higher levels? Honestly, I'm not sure I'd really care one way or another if they ended football. Our society is screwed enough as it is, I don't think getting rid of football is going to be some Armageddon type situation that everyone thinks it will be. Football did not teach me anything that other sports didn't. If any sport shaped me into what I am today, it wasn't football, it was wrestling. I really enjoyed playing football, but wrestling is what taught me more about myself. NCAA rate of concussions: Football = 6.7 (per 10,000 athletic exposures) Wrestling = 10.9 (per 10,000 athletic exposures) www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2017_Concussion_Info_Grphc_RGB_72_V2-01_20170131.pdfWait until football is gone.............. wrestling will be next. Then our young men can finally enjoy some peaceful macrome and online gaming.
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Post by bobgoodman on Feb 13, 2018 13:36:57 GMT -6
Football is a dead man walking without fundamental changes to it. I see nothing wrong with getting rid of kids 12 and under playing tackle football. Somehow, I and millions of others, never played a game of tackle football until HS, but still we played and fell in love with it. You can't continue to do the same thing over and over and expect different results. The sport will not be saved by trying to keep it the same. The other side of that coin is that, literally, millions of kids have played youth football without incurring brain injuries. And most of them never played in HS, either. You cut out youth football, you're cutting out the period of life when more people play tackle football than at any other time. If you take away that opp'ty, you might (or might not) see a slight increase in HS particip'n (on the theory that they'll be more eager for it after waiting until that age), but mostly you'll have just kept the potential majority of tackle football players from ever playing under adult supervision.
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Post by bobgoodman on Feb 13, 2018 13:42:07 GMT -6
What is the point of youth football if not to get kids ready for higher levels? What's the point of any football? There's one level where the very few can play & make $ at it. Everyone else is playing for fun. That's the point at any age.
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Post by larrymoe on Feb 13, 2018 15:08:56 GMT -6
What is the point of youth football if not to get kids ready for higher levels? What's the point of any football? There's one level where the very few can play & make $ at it. Everyone else is playing for fun. That's the point at any age. Great question. I don’t know that there really is a point to any sport other than enjoyment. I will say that as I get older and I start to hurt more in some of my college ball injury areas, I sometimes wish I had given it up in college as the enjoyment portion of it had left by about my jr year. I will also say that at 41 when the days I’m not with it mentally are getting closer to the number days I am, I have some serious questions on whether or not any of it was worth it. And I only played 8 years of it. If the science is true, I shudder to think about what is being done to these kids before they can actually make a choice for themselves because daddy didn’t get to live out his dreams and desires. I think this is an instance where someone needs to actually step in and do something legislatively because most parents seem to care more about some cute or bragging social media posts than they do their own kid’s brains. And no, I’m not one of “them” (whoever the {censored} they are). I’m about as conservative as you come. But we’re not talking about consenting adults making decisions for themselves here. We’re talking about parents, a lot of times, pushing something on their kid that the kid may not want to do and may cause him serious injury later in life. I don’t think that’s outside the realm of the government’s purpose.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 13, 2018 15:36:58 GMT -6
What's the point of any football? There's one level where the very few can play & make $ at it. Everyone else is playing for fun. That's the point at any age. Great question. I don’t know that there really is a point to any sport other than enjoyment. I will say that as I get older and I start to hurt more in some of my college ball injury areas, I sometimes wish I had given it up in college as the enjoyment portion of it had left by about my jr year. I will also say that at 41 when the days I’m not with it mentally are getting closer to the number days I am, I have some serious questions on whether or not any of it was worth it. And I only played 8 years of it. If the science is true, I shudder to think about what is being done to these kids before they can actually make a choice for themselves because daddy didn’t get to live out his dreams and desires. I think this is an instance where someone needs to actually step in and do something legislatively because most parents seem to care more about some cute or bragging social media posts than they do their own kid’s brains. And no, I’m not one of “them” (whoever the {censored} they are). I’m about as conservative as you come. But we’re not talking about consenting adults making decisions for themselves here. We’re talking about parents, a lot of times, pushing something on their kid that the kid may not want to do and may cause him serious injury later in life. I don’t think that’s outside the realm of the government’s purpose. Excellent sentiments. You do realize though that everything you said applies to High School football right?
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Post by Coach Vice on Feb 13, 2018 17:43:48 GMT -6
What's the point of any football? There's one level where the very few can play & make $ at it. Everyone else is playing for fun. That's the point at any age. Great question. I don’t know that there really is a point to any sport other than enjoyment. I will say that as I get older and I start to hurt more in some of my college ball injury areas, I sometimes wish I had given it up in college as the enjoyment portion of it had left by about my jr year. I will also say that at 41 when the days I’m not with it mentally are getting closer to the number days I am, I have some serious questions on whether or not any of it was worth it. And I only played 8 years of it. If the science is true, I shudder to think about what is being done to these kids before they can actually make a choice for themselves because daddy didn’t get to live out his dreams and desires. I think this is an instance where someone needs to actually step in and do something legislatively because most parents seem to care more about some cute or bragging social media posts than they do their own kid’s brains. And no, I’m not one of “them” (whoever the {censored} they are). I’m about as conservative as you come. But we’re not talking about consenting adults making decisions for themselves here. We’re talking about parents, a lot of times, pushing something on their kid that the kid may not want to do and may cause him serious injury later in life. I don’t think that’s outside the realm of the government’s purpose. This is insane. No disrespect......honestly, i don't mean any disrespect, but you can't believe for one second that the American people are too ignorant to make their own decisions about this. Even if they were too ignorant, it's still NOT something the government should get involved with. I take into account the idiocy of ALL our current leaders and I don't trust any of them to make decisions for me.
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Post by larrymoe on Feb 14, 2018 14:54:28 GMT -6
Great question. I don’t know that there really is a point to any sport other than enjoyment. I will say that as I get older and I start to hurt more in some of my college ball injury areas, I sometimes wish I had given it up in college as the enjoyment portion of it had left by about my jr year. I will also say that at 41 when the days I’m not with it mentally are getting closer to the number days I am, I have some serious questions on whether or not any of it was worth it. And I only played 8 years of it. If the science is true, I shudder to think about what is being done to these kids before they can actually make a choice for themselves because daddy didn’t get to live out his dreams and desires. I think this is an instance where someone needs to actually step in and do something legislatively because most parents seem to care more about some cute or bragging social media posts than they do their own kid’s brains. And no, I’m not one of “them” (whoever the {censored} they are). I’m about as conservative as you come. But we’re not talking about consenting adults making decisions for themselves here. We’re talking about parents, a lot of times, pushing something on their kid that the kid may not want to do and may cause him serious injury later in life. I don’t think that’s outside the realm of the government’s purpose. Excellent sentiments. You do realize though that everything you said applies to High School football right? Yes.
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Post by larrymoe on Feb 14, 2018 14:56:31 GMT -6
Great question. I don’t know that there really is a point to any sport other than enjoyment. I will say that as I get older and I start to hurt more in some of my college ball injury areas, I sometimes wish I had given it up in college as the enjoyment portion of it had left by about my jr year. I will also say that at 41 when the days I’m not with it mentally are getting closer to the number days I am, I have some serious questions on whether or not any of it was worth it. And I only played 8 years of it. If the science is true, I shudder to think about what is being done to these kids before they can actually make a choice for themselves because daddy didn’t get to live out his dreams and desires. I think this is an instance where someone needs to actually step in and do something legislatively because most parents seem to care more about some cute or bragging social media posts than they do their own kid’s brains. And no, I’m not one of “them” (whoever the {censored} they are). I’m about as conservative as you come. But we’re not talking about consenting adults making decisions for themselves here. We’re talking about parents, a lot of times, pushing something on their kid that the kid may not want to do and may cause him serious injury later in life. I don’t think that’s outside the realm of the government’s purpose. This is insane. No disrespect......honestly, i don't mean any disrespect, but you can't believe for one second that the American people are too ignorant to make their own decisions about this. Even if they were too ignorant, it's still NOT something the government should get involved with. I take into account the idiocy of ALL our current leaders and I don't trust any of them to make decisions for me. We live in a country where people eat Tide pods and you’re legitimately going to tell me the average American can make an informed scientific decision about their brain health?
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Post by bobgoodman on Feb 14, 2018 19:55:19 GMT -6
What's the point of any football? There's one level where the very few can play & make $ at it. Everyone else is playing for fun. That's the point at any age. Great question. I don’t know that there really is a point to any sport other than enjoyment. I will say that as I get older and I start to hurt more in some of my college ball injury areas, I sometimes wish I had given it up in college as the enjoyment portion of it had left by about my jr year. I will also say that at 41 when the days I’m not with it mentally are getting closer to the number days I am, I have some serious questions on whether or not any of it was worth it. That's a perspective problem. I weigh 300 lbs. Sometimes after eating I wonder whether I really benefited from eating that, or eating all that. Sure, after. But in the same situation I eat the same way. The truth is, I really liked it. You might say an 8 YO doesn't have the same perspective. That's absolutely true. But who's to say the later perspective is the right one? There are certain things you'll enjoy only when you're 8 YO.
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Post by Coach Vice on Feb 15, 2018 7:09:11 GMT -6
This is insane. No disrespect......honestly, i don't mean any disrespect, but you can't believe for one second that the American people are too ignorant to make their own decisions about this. Even if they were too ignorant, it's still NOT something the government should get involved with. I take into account the idiocy of ALL our current leaders and I don't trust any of them to make decisions for me. We live in a country where people eat Tide pods and you’re legitimately going to tell me the average American can make an informed scientific decision about their brain health? As funny as that is, it's frightening to think that anyone would believe the government is better suited to make decisions for others. You just made a long and deadly constitutional/liberty jump. That jump went from idiots making the decisions to eat Tide Pods to people making the decision to play a game enjoyed by millions with only a minuscule fraction of participants being negatively effected. I'm hoping you were just trying to be funny, because that was funny. If not, than I hope you don't vote.
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Post by larrymoe on Feb 15, 2018 9:06:59 GMT -6
We live in a country where people eat Tide pods and you’re legitimately going to tell me the average American can make an informed scientific decision about their brain health? As funny as that is, it's frightening to think that anyone would believe the government is better suited to make decisions for others. You just made a long and deadly constitutional/liberty jump. That jump went from idiots making the decisions to eat Tide Pods to people making the decision to play a game enjoyed by millions with only a minuscule fraction of participants being negatively effected. I'm hoping you were just trying to be funny, because that was funny. If not, than I hope you don't vote. It was part humor, part seriousness. I mean, you can’t argue that people can make informed logical decisions when a growing number can’t make decisions to not do things like that. I also don’t think the government is the answer to anything, but honestly if I’m going to pay for their healthcare, I should be able to say how they treat themselves. And we don’t “know” that it’s a minuscule number. The research on this has just begun.
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Post by mahonz on Feb 16, 2018 16:31:29 GMT -6
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Post by bigshel on Feb 16, 2018 16:40:45 GMT -6
Quoting this Sacramento Bee article: "Nonetheless, Dr. Bennet Omalu, a local specialist nationally recognized for his research on brain injuries, says the bill doesn’t go far enough. He recommends banning football, ice hockey, mixed martial arts, boxing, rugby and wrestling until age 18." I have said this was the next logical step multiple times in multiple threads. All of the pro "ban youth football" coaches need to pay attention. IF it's logical and reasonable to ban tackle football for ages 12 and under, that same logic applies to ages 13-17.
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Post by 33coach on Feb 16, 2018 16:47:27 GMT -6
ill tell you right now. if youth football dies in california, the only places that will have HS football is LA and SF areas.. all of us in the middle wont get the kids.
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Post by 50slantstrong on Feb 16, 2018 17:12:26 GMT -6
Did you guys their spokesman called out Rick Stewart’s credibility because he’s “wing-t coach in 2018”?
LOL f this state. The fact this is getting any validation is all the reason to leave.
Also, am I the only who thinks that if this passes, it’s going to enable the 7-7 and personal trainer douches even more?
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Post by coachwoodall on Feb 19, 2018 8:39:23 GMT -6
This issue/topic was brought up at our state clinic this past weekend. At our members meeting, the officers passed this article around as a tool to use to inform the public, parents, and administrators. It was suggested/asked of us as coaches was to take this article back home and ask our local papers to print this article. Within is a logical, not knee jerk assessment of this issue. Please read the article for yourself, as there is a wealth of information. Also the article has many signators that have quite a bit of clout in the field. LINK
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Post by newhope on Feb 19, 2018 11:14:12 GMT -6
What is the point of youth football if not to get kids ready for higher levels? Honestly, I'm not sure I'd really care one way or another if they ended football. Our society is screwed enough as it is, I don't think getting rid of football is going to be some Armageddon type situation that everyone thinks it will be. Football did not teach me anything that other sports didn't. If any sport shaped me into what I am today, it wasn't football, it was wrestling. I really enjoyed playing football, but wrestling is what taught me more about myself. If that's your opinion, why in the world are you coaching football? Seriously, if one of my assistants said they didn't think football taught anything and that they'd be fine with ending it, I'd get rid of them on the spot. Just being honest. BTW, agree with some of what you said earlier in the thread. Little kids playing tackle football is not the place where we want to draw the line in the sand. There are issues there beyond just concussion. One viewing of Friday Night Tykes (yes, I know that's not the way it is everywhere) is enough to begin to question some of that.
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Post by larrymoe on Feb 19, 2018 13:20:26 GMT -6
What is the point of youth football if not to get kids ready for higher levels? Honestly, I'm not sure I'd really care one way or another if they ended football. Our society is screwed enough as it is, I don't think getting rid of football is going to be some Armageddon type situation that everyone thinks it will be. Football did not teach me anything that other sports didn't. If any sport shaped me into what I am today, it wasn't football, it was wrestling. I really enjoyed playing football, but wrestling is what taught me more about myself. If that's your opinion, why in the world are you coaching football? Seriously, if one of my assistants said they didn't think football taught anything and that they'd be fine with ending it, I'd get rid of them on the spot. Just being honest. BTW, agree with some of what you said earlier in the thread. Little kids playing tackle football is not the place where we want to draw the line in the sand. There are issues there beyond just concussion. One viewing of Friday Night Tykes (yes, I know that's not the way it is everywhere) is enough to begin to question some of that. I enjoy the game and I enjoy coaching, but I am under no illusion that I’m changing a good number of these kid’s lives. I think the notion that anyone is is grossly overestimated. I enjoyed my coaches and learned a lot about coaching from them, but life lesson wise, I didn’t learn anything from them that my parents hadn’t already taught me. And if if they ended the game today, I don’t think it would change my life, or really any kid’s lives. I know that plays terribly to a bunch of people that think they’re singlehandedly effecting an entire school, or sometimes an entire community, by coaching a sport half the school if not more doesn’t give a crap about, but I think it’s reality. i think that if you as a person would be lost without football, I think you need to ask more about yourself than the sport. If your self identity isn’t complete without the word coach in it, I think you need to expand your self identity.
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Post by newt21 on Feb 19, 2018 15:13:19 GMT -6
If that's your opinion, why in the world are you coaching football? Seriously, if one of my assistants said they didn't think football taught anything and that they'd be fine with ending it, I'd get rid of them on the spot. Just being honest. BTW, agree with some of what you said earlier in the thread. Little kids playing tackle football is not the place where we want to draw the line in the sand. There are issues there beyond just concussion. One viewing of Friday Night Tykes (yes, I know that's not the way it is everywhere) is enough to begin to question some of that. I enjoy the game and I enjoy coaching, but I am under no illusion that I’m changing a good number of these kid’s lives. I think the notion that anyone is is grossly overestimated. I enjoyed my coaches and learned a lot about coaching from them, but life lesson wise, I didn’t learn anything from them that my parents hadn’t already taught me. And if if they ended the game today, I don’t think it would change my life, or really any kid’s lives. I know that plays terribly to a bunch of people that think they’re singlehandedly effecting an entire school, or sometimes an entire community, by coaching a sport half the school if not more doesn’t give a crap about, but I think it’s reality. i think that if you as a person would be lost without football, I think you need to ask more about yourself than the sport. If your self identity isn’t complete without the word coach in it, I think you need to expand your self identity. What about the kids that don't learn these lessons from their parents? What about the kids that need a male role model in their lives? Just because it hasn't impacted you in the way it has impacted others doesn't mean it's meaningless or that it should be abandoned on a whim. I know without a doubt that my coaching has positively impacted multiple students, I know because they told me. I've also seen countless students in my school taking their academics seriously because it was a requirement from our coaching staff, it wasn't that way with them before they began playing. So then there's that piece that people seem to forget about also.
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Post by larrymoe on Feb 19, 2018 22:09:55 GMT -6
I enjoy the game and I enjoy coaching, but I am under no illusion that I’m changing a good number of these kid’s lives. I think the notion that anyone is is grossly overestimated. I enjoyed my coaches and learned a lot about coaching from them, but life lesson wise, I didn’t learn anything from them that my parents hadn’t already taught me. And if if they ended the game today, I don’t think it would change my life, or really any kid’s lives. I know that plays terribly to a bunch of people that think they’re singlehandedly effecting an entire school, or sometimes an entire community, by coaching a sport half the school if not more doesn’t give a crap about, but I think it’s reality. i think that if you as a person would be lost without football, I think you need to ask more about yourself than the sport. If your self identity isn’t complete without the word coach in it, I think you need to expand your self identity. What about the kids that don't learn these lessons from their parents? What about the kids that need a male role model in their lives? Just because it hasn't impacted you in the way it has impacted others doesn't mean it's meaningless or that it should be abandoned on a whim. I know without a doubt that my coaching has positively impacted multiple students, I know because they told me. I've also seen countless students in my school taking their academics seriously because it was a requirement from our coaching staff, it wasn't that way with them before they began playing. So then there's that piece that people seem to forget about also. I would wager the same percentage of people you feel your coaching has helped could potentially be the same as the percentage who will have a lasting physical issue from the game. Plus, we're not their parents, nor should we act or think like we are.
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Post by 44dlcoach on Feb 19, 2018 22:38:07 GMT -6
What about the kids that don't learn these lessons from their parents? What about the kids that need a male role model in their lives? Just because it hasn't impacted you in the way it has impacted others doesn't mean it's meaningless or that it should be abandoned on a whim. I know without a doubt that my coaching has positively impacted multiple students, I know because they told me. I've also seen countless students in my school taking their academics seriously because it was a requirement from our coaching staff, it wasn't that way with them before they began playing. So then there's that piece that people seem to forget about also. I would wager the same percentage of people you feel your coaching has helped could potentially be the same as the percentage who will have a lasting physical issue from the game. Plus, we're not their parents, nor should we act or think like we are. I agree with a good amount of your sentiments in this thread and in general. But with all due respect, your statement here is basically just a wild ass guess, there's no way to discuss or debate a wild ass guess.
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Post by larrymoe on Feb 19, 2018 23:03:26 GMT -6
I would wager the same percentage of people you feel your coaching has helped could potentially be the same as the percentage who will have a lasting physical issue from the game. Plus, we're not their parents, nor should we act or think like we are. I agree with a good amount of your sentiments in this thread and in general. But with all due respect, your statement here is basically just a wild ass guess, there's no way to discuss or debate a wild ass guess. Probably. My point is that the amount of people we actually touch as coaches is probably pretty small. It seems like the ones who are to save people usually do less than others.
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Post by silkyice on Feb 20, 2018 6:45:21 GMT -6
I agree with a good amount of your sentiments in this thread and in general. But with all due respect, your statement here is basically just a wild ass guess, there's no way to discuss or debate a wild ass guess. Probably. My point is that the amount of people we actually touch as coaches is probably pretty small. It seems like the ones who are to save people usually do less than others. When my high school head coach had terminal cancer, over 100 of his former players from all over the country got together with him to honor him. People had to stand outside the church at his funeral. Special man who used the vehicle of football to touch and influence thousands. Just don’t think he would have had the same impact as an insurance salesman.
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Post by wingtol on Feb 20, 2018 8:20:13 GMT -6
I just read an article blaming "Toxic Masculinity" for the tragedy in Florida. NOT TRYING TO TALK ABOUT THAT AT ALL, but when terms like that get thrown around and people start liking and sharing stories with titles about toxic masculinity and states try and ban an entire level of football (which I am no big youth football guy but where do they stop) I think we should at least raise an eyebrow when these topics come up.
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Post by seabass on Feb 21, 2018 9:55:13 GMT -6
larrymoe....do you believe there is anything that one person could do for another that would impact their life in a positive way....outside of football?
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Post by larrymoe on Feb 21, 2018 13:21:36 GMT -6
larrymoe ....do you believe there is anything that one person could do for another that would impact their life in a positive way....outside of football? Sort of depends on the person and situation. I think it’s possible, just doesn’t happen as often as people think it does. I also think most people are motivated to do for others because they want something out of it for themselves. Especially in this era of social media.
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