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Post by RuningOutOfOptions on Oct 19, 2017 9:55:04 GMT -6
When I started coaching back home in Sweden, we had 29 players for the U17 team. Most had not won a game in their life. We were lucky with having two twin borthers who stepped up and made it cool to work hard, while being the natural leaders on the team. That year we went 4-4, next year we went undefeated.
The biggest difference I saw was that the two twins (TE/OG) together with the other "cool kids" went to the gym and started competing in there. That lead to us becoming the biggest team and became really hard to stop.
So my suggestion: find the natural leaders, focus on getting them to the weight room together with the other cool kids and make it cool to be there competing. Most comes natural once that happens and they start finding their identity as a team. Easier said than done for sure. But that is the way I know to turn it around.
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Post by newhope on Oct 19, 2017 10:20:14 GMT -6
This has been a really tough season. We are 0-fer and have a senior class that is full of cancers. Now some of the seniors have started screwing around all practice and causing drama off the field as well. My normal response would be that we need to get rid of the ones that have stopped caring (I am not the HC), but we have absolutely nothing behind them. We have gotten to the point where everything we try to do is met with negative attitudes and backlash from parents. We are doing our best to stay positive and let them know that we still believe they have a chance to make playoffs (somehow we do since our district is so bad), but now it seems like they are determined to burn the ship down. I don't think I have ever felt like this in almost 10 years of coaching, but I feel like I am just ready to get the season over with and move on from this senior class. You got cancers. They were allowed to stay because you "have absolutely nothing behind them". You are 0-fer. You couldn't have been worse than 0-fer without them and you wouldn't have the cancers to put up with daily, or their parents, or have them rubbing off on the other players. This is what happens when the decision is made to put up with cancers because you think you can win more games.
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Post by throwthedeepball on Oct 19, 2017 12:16:06 GMT -6
This has been a really tough season. We are 0-fer and have a senior class that is full of cancers. Now some of the seniors have started screwing around all practice and causing drama off the field as well. My normal response would be that we need to get rid of the ones that have stopped caring (I am not the HC), but we have absolutely nothing behind them. We have gotten to the point where everything we try to do is met with negative attitudes and backlash from parents. We are doing our best to stay positive and let them know that we still believe they have a chance to make playoffs (somehow we do since our district is so bad), but now it seems like they are determined to burn the ship down. I don't think I have ever felt like this in almost 10 years of coaching, but I feel like I am just ready to get the season over with and move on from this senior class. You got cancers. They were allowed to stay because you "have absolutely nothing behind them". You are 0-fer. You couldn't have been worse than 0-fer without them and you wouldn't have the cancers to put up with daily, or their parents, or have them rubbing off on the other players. This is what happens when the decision is made to put up with cancers because you think you can win more games. You hit the nail on the head. I would prefer to just get rid of them, but I don't get to make that decision, and outside of having a negative attitude, they haven't done anything worthy of getting kicked off a team. They also were not really cancerous until the last couple of weeks.
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Post by blb on Oct 19, 2017 13:06:46 GMT -6
I don't owe YOU answers to ANY of your questions (mind your own business). You cannot & have not suggested anything that would help the OP (with your "quitter" attitude). I would like to play you for a LIVING!
LOL - ouch.
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Post by YoungDumbCoach on Oct 19, 2017 13:43:00 GMT -6
There is no excuse in the world NOT to have an out-of-season program IF YOU STAY THERE! The OP never said that he did not have an out-of-season program. He is asking what you would do if a team quits mid season. Yes it is nice to say that having an off season program would help, but I assume they do. To answer the OP, I think that one thing to consider is to change your goals from make the playoffs to improve. I know that kind of sucks, and may not help the current cancers, but shifting your goals from something tangible, like making the playoffs, to something intangible like improving may give the kids something more realistic to strive for and something that you can show. Whereas having such a hard goal as making the playoffs makes it easy for the kids to wallow in failure.
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Post by aceback76 on Oct 19, 2017 14:06:08 GMT -6
There is a LOT involved in "Turning A Program Around"! Books have been written on the subject (& movies made on the subject). I do not think we can even "scratch the surface" on here!
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Post by 19delta on Oct 19, 2017 14:10:42 GMT -6
There are many schools that just don't deserve a good coach. Something about bringing a horse to water comes to mind...
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Post by blb on Oct 19, 2017 14:19:45 GMT -6
This has been a really tough season. We are 0-fer and have a senior class that is full of cancers. Now some of the seniors have started screwing around all practice and causing drama off the field as well. My normal response would be that we need to get rid of the ones that have stopped caring (I am not the HC), but we have absolutely nothing behind them. We have gotten to the point where everything we try to do is met with negative attitudes and backlash from parents. We are doing our best to stay positive and let them know that we still believe they have a chance to make playoffs (somehow we do since our district is so bad), but now it seems like they are determined to burn the ship down. I don't think I have ever felt like this in almost 10 years of coaching, but I feel like I am just ready to get the season over with and move on from this senior class.
Most everybody who has coached long enough (except apparently aceback76 ) has had a season like this, especially in first year at a school-in a program.
Finish the season best you can.
Then analyze what must be done to improve your situation, and implement that in Year Two.
If that is still met with negative attitudes and "backlash from parents" - you may be in one of those places that Urban Meyer or Nick Saban couldn't be successful in. There are many communities-schools like that. Not every situation is the same.
PM aceback76 for his phone number - he will tell you how to fix what ails you.
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Post by blb on Oct 19, 2017 14:24:14 GMT -6
There are many schools that just don't deserve a good coach. Something about bringing a horse to water comes to mind...
True.
There are more good football coaches than there are good football schools-communities-programs.
"If you can lead a horse to water and get him to roll over and float - then you've got something!"
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Post by Defcord on Oct 19, 2017 15:03:07 GMT -6
There are many schools that just don't deserve a good coach. Something about bringing a horse to water comes to mind... I disagree with this...I think it’s fair to say there are parents and admin that don’t deserve a good coach, but the kids always do.
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Post by Defcord on Oct 19, 2017 15:09:01 GMT -6
Sorry, but - one more "nonsensical question":
When was the last time you coached at a "very small" school who had, let's say 20-25 Varsity players and a like number of JVs (Sophomores and Freshmen)?
Please don't give any more theoretical replies not rooted in reality for coaches like OP.
You can't re-post 20-year old articles by NFL coaches to help on this one.
I don't owe YOU answers to ANY of your questions (mind your own business). You cannot & have not suggested anything that would help the OP (with your "quitter" attitude). I would like to play you for a LIVING! I think when you called him out by name you opened up the conversation. I think you owe him answers. I think it will add to the overall dialogue.
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Post by blb on Oct 19, 2017 15:36:32 GMT -6
There are many schools that just don't deserve a good coach. Something about bringing a horse to water comes to mind... I disagree with this...I think it’s fair to say there are parents and admin that don’t deserve a good coach, but the kids always do.
Your point is well-taken, but:
If the kids are used to a lack of discipline, responsibility, accountability at home and-or in school, and the "good coach" tries to teach-enforce those expectations and is met with attitudes and "backlash" OP described - what then?
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Post by Defcord on Oct 19, 2017 15:41:12 GMT -6
I disagree with this...I think it’s fair to say there are parents and admin that don’t deserve a good coach, but the kids always do.
Your point is well-taken, but:
If the kids are used to a lack of discipline, responsibility, accountability at home and-or in school, and the "good coach" tries to teach-enforce those expectations and is met with attitudes and "backlash" OP described - what then?
Then I am grateful those kids at least got a small dose of the right way. Hopefully the good coach will leave enough of a mark that those kids will at least have a reference point to a better way later in life. Those kids are probably deserve a good coach a lot more than the good coach deserves them.
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Post by aceback76 on Oct 19, 2017 16:23:48 GMT -6
I don't owe YOU answers to ANY of your questions (mind your own business). You cannot & have not suggested anything that would help the OP (with your "quitter" attitude). I would like to play you for a LIVING! I think when you called him out by name you opened up the conversation. I think you owe him answers. I think it will add to the overall dialogue. No!
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Post by 19delta on Oct 19, 2017 17:02:28 GMT -6
There are many schools that just don't deserve a good coach. Something about bringing a horse to water comes to mind... I disagree with this...I think it’s fair to say there are parents and admin that don’t deserve a good coach, but the kids always do. Meh. The kids are a problem because the parents are a problem. 6 of one, half dozen of another. The final result is going to be the same. The point is that there are many communities that simply aren't willing to support the effort that it takes to build a competitive sports program. It takes a lot of work and it can't be done by the coaching staff alone. You give every job an honest effort and do your best. But, at some point, you have to decide if what you are putting in is worth what you are getting out.
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Post by Defcord on Oct 19, 2017 17:04:46 GMT -6
I disagree with this...I think it’s fair to say there are parents and admin that don’t deserve a good coach, but the kids always do. Meh. The kids are a problem because the parents are a problem. 6 of one, half dozen of another. The final result is going to be the same. The point is that there are many communities that simply aren't willing to support the effort that it takes to build a competitive sports program. It takes a lot of work and it can't be done by the coaching staff alone. You give every job an honest effort and do your best. But, at some point, you have to decide if what you are putting in is worth what you are getting out. I think we are basically on the same page. I just tend to not blame kids on their parents. At some point they need to be their own person but I know that’s hard to do.
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Post by Defcord on Oct 19, 2017 17:08:07 GMT -6
I think when you called him out by name you opened up the conversation. I think you owe him answers. I think it will add to the overall dialogue. No! I don’t have a response to “no!” But i also don’t call people out then tell them I don’t owe them answers. You have a lot of meaningful posts but you have a lot of “non sensical” ones too.
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Post by aceback76 on Oct 19, 2017 17:18:38 GMT -6
I don’t have a response to “no!” But i also don’t call people out then tell them I don’t owe them answers. You have a lot of meaningful posts but you have a lot of “non sensical” ones too. This isn't about what YOU want. Direct all questions & comments to the OP. HE needs your help, I don't.
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Post by Defcord on Oct 19, 2017 17:53:06 GMT -6
I don’t have a response to “no!” But i also don’t call people out then tell them I don’t owe them answers. You have a lot of meaningful posts but you have a lot of “non sensical” ones too. This isn't about what YOU want. Direct all questions & comments to the OP. HE needs your help, I don't. You responded directly to blb so I guess you could take your own advice.
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Post by newhope on Oct 20, 2017 6:40:31 GMT -6
You got cancers. They were allowed to stay because you "have absolutely nothing behind them". You are 0-fer. You couldn't have been worse than 0-fer without them and you wouldn't have the cancers to put up with daily, or their parents, or have them rubbing off on the other players. This is what happens when the decision is made to put up with cancers because you think you can win more games. You hit the nail on the head. I would prefer to just get rid of them, but I don't get to make that decision, and outside of having a negative attitude, they haven't done anything worthy of getting kicked off a team. They also were not really cancerous until the last couple of weeks. It's a tough position to be in as an assistant. You know what needs to be done, but are powerless to do anything about it. All you can do is give your advice to the HC and do your job to the best of your abilities.
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Post by brophy on Oct 20, 2017 7:17:40 GMT -6
they haven't done anything worthy of getting kicked off a team. They also were not really cancerous until the last couple of weeks. people are like a roll of toothpaste, you never know what's inside until you squeeze them Its tough to justify pulling the trigger on guys you know are dirtbags but are clearly bigger, stronger, and "look the part" for the position. You have a few options (though at this point in the season....) Press the group hard in individual and group time. If you have a Senior slappy who has a guaranteed job, push the group to perform at a high tempo, fast drills. These guys will generally move slower than normal. Punish the entire group for slappy's lack of urgency. Instead of being the senior 'hero', he'll look like a weak link. The peer group will eventually turn on him and he'll either get on board or buck up. He'll quit or he'll try to challenge the coaches. If he challenges the coaches, just send him home for the day. The point is getting him to wake up and realize the privilege of playing. The other alternative is to force reps at his position on underclassmen. It could be your philosophy of playing young guys or it could be your "special personnel package". You'll see that senior slappy is replaceable and now you can justify playing other players because its not like they are playing any worse than before. When that starting spot is no longer guaranteed, some kids will recommit and snap to....others where it isn't important to them will just quit. Let them.
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Post by coachwoodall on Oct 24, 2017 12:58:33 GMT -6
There are many schools that just don't deserve a good coach. Something about bringing a horse to water comes to mind... @dcohio would respond to "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink", with "Well I can dame sure drown him trying"
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Post by ebergstedt on Jun 25, 2018 20:19:39 GMT -6
If you remember as stated above that football is a means to an end it might help. Winning football games, especially in high school is actually very unimportant. Can you help those guys in front of you become men. Can you help them find responsibility, passion, direction and a sense of team. Can you help make them accountable to themselves and their teammates. The answer is no....but you can possibly help them move in the right direction, through example if nothing else. You may not even see the results now but have to trust that what you are doing will help them and your program in the future. I also coach in a very small program 24-30 kids 9-12. When your upperclassmen stink, you stink. But you don't change who you are and what you believe in and the younger kids will see that and want to be different for you.
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Post by coachklee on Jun 25, 2018 20:46:25 GMT -6
If you remember as stated above that football is a means to an end it might help. Winning football games, especially in high school is actually very unimportant. Can you help those guys in front of you become men. Can you help them find responsibility, passion, direction and a sense of team. Can you help make them accountable to themselves and their teammates. The answer is no....but you can possibly help them move in the right direction, through example if nothing else. You may not even see the results now but have to trust that what you are doing will help them and your program in the future. I also coach in a very small program 24-30 kids 9-12. When your upperclassmen stink, you stink. But you don't change who you are and what you believe in and the younger kids will see that and want to be different for you. You can tell it is summer & we have too much spare time when one of us digs up an old thread like this!
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